Marjorie Ashcraft on sun 13 oct 02
Dear Gene,
I am almost glad to hear someone besides me has had element burnout
problems!
I have a six year old Paragon, and have had to replace 15 elements
within the past year. No one can figure it out, not Paragon or apparently
anyone from Clayart. Everyone believes I am using some esoteric clays or
glazes, but I'm not.
I wrote Pete Pinnell about a strontium glaze of his thinking that might
have some bearing on the problem, and I use that glaze a good bit. He
kindly replied and said he didn't think that was it, and asked if I had a
kiln vent, which I don't. Am considering it, though.
Paragon suggested I fire with the peepholes open, and I've been doing
that ever since. I fire about as much as you do, bisque and cone 6, and
thank goodness I've not had a burnout for the past 8 or 10 firings. This
frequency of element replacement is ridiculous.
Let me know if you find an answer. Best of luck.
Marjorie Ashcraft
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arnolds Home Improvements"
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: bad kiln elements
> Hello All
>
> I have a two year old L&L kiln that I have had to replace the elements in
> once already and the thermocouples and I think the elements need replacing
> again. I don't think this is normal is it ????????
>
> The kiln has 3 inch walls,heavy duty elements, and electronic controller.
It
> is 208 3 phase voltage which has been checked and is okay.
>
> The kiln gets fired only about twice a month one bisque and one cone 6
glaze
> with a ten minute hold.
>
> In the last two glaze firings I get an err1 message in the final segment,
> which means the temp is climbing too slow and the kiln shuts it's self off
> about 60 degrees short of final temp. and no soak. And it takes forever to
> reach this temp. about 12 hours.
>
> Is this a common life span for kiln elements and thermocouples ??
>
> Does anyone else have this problem with an L&L or just me??
>
> For no more than this kiln has been fired this is getting very
expensive!!!!
>
>
>
> Thanks!!
> Gene Arnold
> mudduck@advi.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Arnold Howard on sun 13 oct 02
Gene, have you checked voltage under load?
Is it possible that contaminants are reaching the elements?
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, Inc.
--- Arnolds Home Improvements wrote:
> Hello All
>
> I have a two year old L&L kiln that I have had to replace the
> elements in
> once already and the thermocouples and I think the elements need
> replacing
> again. I don't think this is normal is it ????????
>
> The kiln has 3 inch walls,heavy duty elements, and electronic
> controller. It
> is 208 3 phase voltage which has been checked and is okay.
>
> The kiln gets fired only about twice a month one bisque and one
> cone 6 glaze
> with a ten minute hold.
>
> In the last two glaze firings I get an err1 message in the final
> segment,
> which means the temp is climbing too slow and the kiln shuts it's
> self off
> about 60 degrees short of final temp. and no soak. And it takes
> forever to
> reach this temp. about 12 hours.
>
> Is this a common life span for kiln elements and thermocouples ??
>
> Does anyone else have this problem with an L&L or just me??
>
> For no more than this kiln has been fired this is getting very
> expensive!!!!
>
>
>
> Thanks!!
> Gene Arnold
> mudduck@advi.net
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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claybair on sun 13 oct 02
Arnold,
Have you spoken to anyone at L&L?
When I had problems I called and spoke to Steve and Rob.
After new thermocouples they figured out the electronic controller
needed to be updated. I didn't mind buying the thermocouples as
I should have back-ups just in case.
They are very responsive do call them.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Arnolds Home Improvements
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 12:58 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: bad kiln elements
Hello All
I have a two year old L&L kiln that I have had to replace the elements in
once already and the thermocouples and I think the elements need replacing
again. I don't think this is normal is it ????????
The kiln has 3 inch walls,heavy duty elements, and electronic controller. It
is 208 3 phase voltage which has been checked and is okay.
The kiln gets fired only about twice a month one bisque and one cone 6 glaze
with a ten minute hold.
In the last two glaze firings I get an err1 message in the final segment,
which means the temp is climbing too slow and the kiln shuts it's self off
about 60 degrees short of final temp. and no soak. And it takes forever to
reach this temp. about 12 hours.
Is this a common life span for kiln elements and thermocouples ??
Does anyone else have this problem with an L&L or just me??
For no more than this kiln has been fired this is getting very expensive!!!!
Thanks!!
Gene Arnold
mudduck@advi.net
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Arnolds Home Improvements on sun 13 oct 02
Hello All
I have a two year old L&L kiln that I have had to replace the elements in
once already and the thermocouples and I think the elements need replacing
again. I don't think this is normal is it ????????
The kiln has 3 inch walls,heavy duty elements, and electronic controller. It
is 208 3 phase voltage which has been checked and is okay.
The kiln gets fired only about twice a month one bisque and one cone 6 glaze
with a ten minute hold.
In the last two glaze firings I get an err1 message in the final segment,
which means the temp is climbing too slow and the kiln shuts it's self off
about 60 degrees short of final temp. and no soak. And it takes forever to
reach this temp. about 12 hours.
Is this a common life span for kiln elements and thermocouples ??
Does anyone else have this problem with an L&L or just me??
For no more than this kiln has been fired this is getting very expensive!!!!
Thanks!!
Gene Arnold
mudduck@advi.net
Stephen J Lewicki on wed 16 oct 02
Dear Gene -
Rob Battey, our main support technician, has been in touch with you
concerning these elements. There are many reasons for shortened element
life. Lack of venting could be a contributor but, from what Rob tells me,
your friend is also firing similar clay and glazes in a Skutt 1027 without
venting (but using 240 volts he thinks) and sees no problem. In this
particular case I believe the main problem is that our JD230 running on 208
volts is somewhat underpowered. The kilns were designed many years ago to
stay under 15 amps per section to work with the Infinite control switches.
When you have a 15 amp kiln section with 208 volts, have 2-1/2" brick, and
do high firings you are using the elements all of the time to get to
temperature. The end result of this is shorter element life. It is like
running a car flat out. Fortunately we have a solution (which we offer on
new kilns for no extra charge). We have a model JD230S which has higher
power elements. It has 10.8 Kw at 208 volts (51.9 amps) rather than the
9.14 Kw you have now (an increase of over 15%). These higher power elements
can be put in the kiln with no problem. The only downside is that the kiln
needs to be hard wired (which yours already is). Using the higher powered
elements will do two things. First, the elements won't be on as much so
they won't wear out as quickly. Second, as they do age you will have much
further to go before you need to replace them.
As Rob told you, we are sending you a set of these elements at no charge. I
am quite certain that this will solve your problem. By the way we are
working on a new design that will address this very issue and still work on
a 48 amps with a standard 50 amp cord.
Best Regards,
Stephen Lewicki
President
L&L Kiln Mfg.
steve@hotkilns.com
Arnolds Home Improvements on wed 16 oct 02
Stephen
Thanks for your reply!! I look forward to installing these new elements and
taking the for a test drive.
I need to apologize to Rob also some how when he first called I understood
his name to be Ralph and that's what I have been calling him. For this I am
truly sorry because he really is a nice guy!
Rob thanks for your help!!!!!
Gene Arnold
mudduck@advi.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J Lewicki
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: bad kiln elements
>Dear Gene -
>
>Rob Battey, our main support technician, has been in touch with you
>concerning these elements. There are many reasons for shortened element
>life. Lack of venting could be a contributor but, from what Rob tells me,
>your friend is also firing similar clay and glazes in a Skutt 1027 without
>venting (but using 240 volts he thinks) and sees no problem. In this
>particular case I believe the main problem is that our JD230 running on 208
>volts is somewhat underpowered. The kilns were designed many years ago to
>stay under 15 amps per section to work with the Infinite control switches.
>When you have a 15 amp kiln section with 208 volts, have 2-1/2" brick, and
>do high firings you are using the elements all of the time to get to
>temperature. The end result of this is shorter element life. It is like
>running a car flat out. Fortunately we have a solution (which we offer on
>new kilns for no extra charge). We have a model JD230S which has higher
>power elements. It has 10.8 Kw at 208 volts (51.9 amps) rather than the
>9.14 Kw you have now (an increase of over 15%). These higher power elements
>can be put in the kiln with no problem. The only downside is that the kiln
>needs to be hard wired (which yours already is). Using the higher powered
>elements will do two things. First, the elements won't be on as much so
>they won't wear out as quickly. Second, as they do age you will have much
>further to go before you need to replace them.
>
>As Rob told you, we are sending you a set of these elements at no charge. I
>am quite certain that this will solve your problem. By the way we are
>working on a new design that will address this very issue and still work on
>a 48 amps with a standard 50 amp cord.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>
>Stephen Lewicki
>President
>L&L Kiln Mfg.
>steve@hotkilns.com
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
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