Bacia Edelman on tue 29 oct 02
I read mel's post with interest, yet I am fairly sure
that the town of Jewett, New York is in a rural area.
Whether or not the Middletons smelled the kiln was
not stated. They seem to have been worried that
it (home industry) was "industrial."
John Baymore's long post about the situation was
well researched and written.
my wood kiln is in a rural area. we can fire any time....no problem.
my salt kiln is in a rural area...clouds of vapor just go through the woods.
no one cares.
nils' wood kiln (anagama) is in a rural area. smoke, fire...no
one is concerned.
Bacia Edelman Madison, Wisconsin
Lily Krakowski on wed 30 oct 02
Jewett is a small town in the Catskills. The Catskills are "rural" in so
far as they are not "urban". These places tend to be small towns with
surrounding farms. Very much like Constableville.
The Catskills are a second-home area indeed, in many cases city people have
bought local houses and use them only in Summer. My own extended family
Summers in the Catskills, and if I recall correctly, Hannah Arendt Summered
in nearby Palenville. Check your maps!!!!!!
I read the transcripts and the Middletons are very close to that kiln.
There is some discussion of how close, the closest to their "front-door"
that is mentionned, I think, is 75 feet. And the kiln apparently is not
where the town thought it would be on the property itself.
There is a lot of discussion of woodpiles and blue tarpaulins...These people
on that street in that town have a problem with the unsightliness which goes
against their zoning code, or at least, goes beyond what the town thought
it would get. As to industrial vs commercial....I think it is the SIZE of
that kiln that is causing the problem....
As to smoke: Come on now! There is no way the curtains, the carpets, the
walls of the neighbor's house won't smell of it. If you have ever had a
fire in the neighborhood--I mean a bad fire, a fire of a house down the
street-- you smell it in your house for days.
My own guess is that, to make an analogy, Ms Beecher said "truck" and the
town people visualized a pickup, and got an 18 wheeler and that is the crux
of the problem.
If you read the minutes you will see the town is bending itself into a
pretzel to make things right.
Anyway: rural does not mean savage vacant land...
Bacia Edelman writes:
> I read mel's post with interest, yet I am fairly sure
> that the town of Jewett, New York is in a rural area.
> Whether or not the Middletons smelled the kiln was
> not stated. They seem to have been worried that
> it (home industry) was "industrial."
> John Baymore's long post about the situation was
> well researched and written.
> mel wrote:
> my wood kiln is in a rural area. we can fire any time....no problem.
> my salt kiln is in a rural area...clouds of vapor just go through the woods.
> no one cares.
> nils' wood kiln (anagama) is in a rural area. smoke, fire...no
> one is concerned.
> Regards, Bacia
> Bacia Edelman Madison, Wisconsin
> Send postings to email@example.com
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at firstname.lastname@example.org.
P.O. Box #1
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
Anita Rickenberg on wed 30 oct 02
"yet I am fairly sure that the town of Jewett, New York is in a rural area."
I suppose it's all in how you define "rural". If a community is
incorporated with elected officials, building codes, and zoning laws, then
in my mind it ceases to be truly rural. At that point you loose the
flexibility of doing whatever you want whenever you want on your property.
It also prevents your neighbor from doing something that is a nuisance or
detracts from the value of your property.
The flip side of that is that in areas that aren't incorporated and don't
have zoning, you better have a very large "buffer" zone between you and your
neighbor. Where I live, which is unincorporated with no zoning, the only
thing that's controlled is junk yards--anything else is OK. And no, I can't
see my neighbors.
Although the situation in NY has pushed a lot of buttons for many on this
list for very good reasons, to be a little more objective, think of
something that would be really offensive and invasive to your property from
an odor or visual standpoint--then think of it being done in your neighbor's
yard. To paraphrase: my rights end where my neighbor's begin.
Mondloch on wed 30 oct 02
I've got to say I've been taken aback by the lack of support for Ms Beecher
being shown on the list. Although it's hard to assess a situation completely
without seeing it in person, I place a great deal of trust in John Baymore's
assessment. I have read every post he has written in the past (5?) or so
years I've been on the list and he always goes to Great lengths to see
issues from all sides- giving balanced, reasoned and in-depth views.
We don't have many second homes here, but this traditionally farming area
has recently been under great development pressure as commuters push out
farther from the city to buy their piece of 'country'. Often, they get
their few acres in the middle of farm fields to put up their McMansion (a
media term- not mine) and the first time the farmer spreads cow manure
they're all pissed off and try to legally stop the farmer- doesn't fit their
pasteurized version of country life. For now Mel and others may think that
they're safe in their rural area, but unless they personally own hundreds of
acres around themselves it may be an illusion.
I've fired a (admittedly small) wood kiln in a tiny town in this area for 20
years without complaints and it's probably only 50 ft from our neighbor.
Actually, I think we are probably better off in our little town. Land in
town is not considered as desirable for new construction so our neighbors
tend to be long term, understand country life , know us and trust us. We
actively support our wonderful volunteer fire department.
Unfortunately, some people tend to draw a line right after whatever it is
'they' want to do as to what is acceptable. I think it's especially
important for us (meaning ALL craftsmen) to be ESPECIALLY tolerant of
things our neighbors do- whether we're talking about barking dogs, loud
music and yes even burning leaves.
Much of the board minutes dealing with the Beecher case, struck me as just
petty power struggles, but I almost dropped my teeth at comments by board
member Middleton. One example- It was brought up that there may be an
occasional school bus bringing art students to see the kiln and apparently
he finds the idea of a school bus- with kids no less- temporarily parked in
a yard to be very objectionable.
Smoke- We helped our dear friends clean up after their house burned down and
I can tell you that acrid smell is NOTHING like the wonderful smell of a
well-fired wood kiln. I know my small wood kiln is not the same as a big
one, but I have been able to avoid heavy smoke, except for an occasional
poof of black smoke if I stoke too heavy. There's generally just heat waves-
same as the gas kiln. Flame out the chimney also means stoking is too heavy.
Of course, if a curious neighbor is over to chat, we'd maybe stoke heavy
just to get a flame out for them to see. Their response? --- "oh cool!"
Neighbors can be wonderful and supportive. Involve them whenever you can
with an open house, school workshops and youth tours. You want them there to
support you when the time comes that you need it. I'm not sure if any amount
of support from other potters scattered throughout the country/world will
help as much.
I sent my $10.
Mark & Sylvia Mondloch
Silver Creek Pottery & Forge
W6725 Hwy 144
Random Lake ,Wi 53075
June Perry on thu 31 oct 02
It's not true that unincorporated areas don't have zoning laws. I found that
out when I called about a wood kiln in an unincorporated area. I was told
that they considered any kiln industrial and would only be allowed in an
industrial zoning area.
The non incoporated designation, where I lived in S.Oregon, only meant that
is was jurisdicted by the county and not a town. In fact, in the town of
Ashland, on a regular, in town lot, permitted h a kiln up to 20 cubic feet,
as long as it wasn't to operate a business; but outside of town in the
unincorporated area, it was considered illegal according to the official I
spoke with. Go figure!