Gail Dapogny on mon 4 nov 02
Soft wood?
We have the same tree -- the larch -- here in Michigan -- in fact I have a
tall one in my backyard. It acts just like your western larch, dropits
soft needles now, comes back pale green and pretty in the spring. It also
has tiny cones. I suppose our respective climates have a lot in common
except colder here. However since your larch is in the mountains it might
be almost as cold.
---Gail
>Phil wrote: (in part)
>"I do not recall any Conifers as may act desiduously
>however...if there are any who do."
>
> Just as a curiosity, up here, in the wilds of Oregon, we have an odd
>coniferous tree, which indeed pretends to be deciduous. Perhaps this is
>because it is confused? I don't claim to know. It resides only in one
>mountain range here, The "Ochoco", or "Blues", as the locals say. And
>Maybe the "Wallowas". Also crosses into washington, and into Idaho too.
>This tree is called in the books "Western Larch", It quite decidedly
>drops all of its needles in the fall, .... Comes back though, green and
>beautiful each spring.
>Leland Hall
>Before The Wheel Enterprises
>La Pine, Oregon USA
Gail Dapogny
1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
(734) 665-9816
gdapogny@umich.edu
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/dapogny (single historical photo - no longer
registered with Silverhawk)
Philip Poburka on mon 4 nov 02
Soft wood?
Dear Terry,
Yes...pretty much as 'so' here, but for the White Oak...
American Yellow Pine, traditional for many things includeing
Truck beds, mostly forgotten of now, is or may be quite
dense and is also resistant to rot.
The understanding I have had, of the distinction Between
'Hardwoods' and 'Softwoods', is of whether they are or are
not desiduous.
There may have been an error in the communication with your
Woodshop Instructor so far as the White Oak, as White Oak is
not and never was a 'Softwood'...it is a Hardwood.
All the Oaks are Hardwoods, even if some of them may reside
happily
in some mild clime as where they no longer trouble
themselves to 'loose' their leaves come Winter...they are
still a desiduous Tree who is not for the moment acting like
it.
So the definition is a little less than allways technicly
true in the most literal way for some examples...but broadly
'true'.
I do not recall any Conifers as may act desiduously
however...if there are any who do.
The 'Evergreens', the Conifers, the Pines and Firs, the
Cyprus and
most Gum Woods as the Eucalyptus bye-and-large,
are 'Softwoods', and we may recall these are not desiduous.
This has confused people for many generations too, as it is
not
about the actual in-every-case 'hardness' as Woods may have
across the board, either.
'Balsa-Wood' is a Hardwood...and there are species of Pine
which, as a Softwood, is almost as 'hard' as bone.
If 'Poison Sumac' or Poison Ivy got chubby enough, they
would likely be 'Commercial' species...made into 'palletts'
and the like, shoreings or what...and would play hell I
expect in occasions downwind of a woodfireing...There are
many Trees, if few in the United States, as are considered
'Poisonous', or whose sap or resins may occasion painful
skin or respiritory reactions very quickly.
The potential Heat Energy of a given Wood is supposed to be
easily anticipated on the basis of that Wood's Specific
Gravity
when at some decided state of dryness. Which is another way
of saying of it's density.
Slow growing Trees of whatever species, oweing to arid
climate or local conditions, are liable to a higher density.
So Terry, my understanding as well, is just as you say...the
heavier it is, the more
potential Heat energy one may expect to get out of it in
burning it.
Moisture content of Wood can be hard to acess
sometimes...and may add greatly to the appearant
weight...and may make guessing it's 'actual' weight, as it's
specific Gravity kind of weight, sans extraneous water, more
difficult.
If it is cool to the lips, it is certainly not
'dry'...anyway...
Close growth rings suggest of a margainally higher
density...which, within a given species may make some
difference.
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "terry sullivan"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: firing with hardwood
Hmmm Mel,
I could be wrong on this but my wood working instructor
pointed out the
Japanese red pine is much harder than what we american folks
think of as
soft "pine".
When I started this woodworking class, I had little real
knowledge about
woods. Boy, have I learned.
On thing is that the designations "hard wood" and "soft
wood" do not
indicate if the wood is really "hard" or "soft". These have
to do with
whether the tree is broad leaf or narrow ( like pine/
conifers). There
are hardwood designated species that are actually quite soft
and soft
wood spieces that are quite hard (dense). For instance:
Poplar is a
broad leaf "hardwood" but is fairly soft compared to oak,
cherry, and
the like. White Oak is a large leaf that is, by wood workers
designation, a soft wood that is very hard and dense. As I
understand
it; the denser the wood, the more the btus per pound versus
volume. A
pound of oak is much smaller in volume than a pound of white
pine. The
pine will burn quite rapidly while the oak will burn slower.
One only has to look at the relative density of Douglas Fir
and White
Pine to see the great difference with two close species in
the "soft
wood" catagories.
My two cents worth, and it is only two cents, ok.
Terry Sullivan
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Leland G. Hall on mon 4 nov 02
Soft wood?
Hi Phil.
You wrote: (in part)
"I do not recall any Conifers as may act desiduously
however...if there are any who do."
Just as a curiosity, up here, in the wilds of Oregon, we have an odd
coniferous tree, which indeed pretends to be deciduous. Perhaps this is
because it is confused? I don't claim to know. It resides only in one
mountain range here, The "Ochoco", or "Blues", as the locals say. And
Maybe the "Wallowas". Also crosses into washington, and into Idaho too.
This tree is called in the books "Western Larch", and "Tamarack" by those
that live around them, though the Tamarack title, I can not find in my
books. It quite decidedly drops all of its needles in the fall, leaving
large tracks of very dead looking forest. Comes back though, green and
beautiful each spring. Very popular for fire wood around those parts.
Burns hot, clean. Straight grained, and easy to split too. Miners and
homesteaders in the early days used it for the makeing of shingles and
shakes for their roofs too. And evem farther back, the Shoshone and maybe
the ocasional Piute abborigonal fellow which might have wandered that far
north, found the Tamarack excellent for arrow shafts, as it is so light and
straight grained.
Probably would fire pots nicely too.
Very best Regards
Leland Hall
Before The Wheel Enterprises
La Pine, Oregon USA
John Rodgers on mon 4 nov 02
Soft wood?
Yep, thats the larch alright. Even had them in Alaska. I had one in my
front yead up near Fairbanks when I first moved there and my first year
there I thought it had died when it lost all its needles. Come next
spring here came the new needles. Interesting tree, sor of masquerading
as an evergreen.
John Rodgers
Leland G. Hall wrote:
> Hi Phil.
>
> You wrote: (in part)
>
> "I do not recall any Conifers as may act desiduously
> however...if there are any who do."
>
> Just as a curiosity, up here, in the wilds of Oregon, we have an odd
> coniferous tree, which indeed pretends to be deciduous. Perhaps this is
> because it is confused? I don't claim to know. It resides only in one
> mountain range here, The "Ochoco", or "Blues", as the locals say. And
> Maybe the "Wallowas". Also crosses into washington, and into Idaho too.
> This tree is called in the books "Western Larch", and "Tamarack" by those
> that live around them, though the Tamarack title, I can not find in my
> books. It quite decidedly drops all of its needles in the fall, leaving
> large tracks of very dead looking forest. Comes back though, green and
> beautiful each spring. Very popular for fire wood around those parts.
> Burns hot, clean. Straight grained, and easy to split too. Miners and
> homesteaders in the early days used it for the makeing of shingles and
> shakes for their roofs too. And evem farther back, the Shoshone and maybe
> the ocasional Piute abborigonal fellow which might have wandered that far
> north, found the Tamarack excellent for arrow shafts, as it is so light and
> straight grained.
>
> Probably would fire pots nicely too.
>
> Very best Regards
> Leland Hall
> Before The Wheel Enterprises
> La Pine, Oregon USA
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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