John Baymore on sat 9 nov 02
So... I had seen another potter put kaol wool strips between the top of t=
he
top ring and the
lid, so I did it too. I hate that stuff! It reminds me of this fiber glas=
s
surf board we kids played with growing up that wreaked havoc on our skin.=
Anyways it doesn't seem to insulate as well as I wanted for the hassle of=
leaning over the kiln to load and unload and get the fibers on my arms. I=
even took the strips off in front when I was loading and unloading my kil=
n
and some of the fibers are still there. Anyone have a better solution?
Hi Cat - I have a similar problem. The bricks in my kiln lid have shifted=
leaving an unacceptable gap between the kiln top and lid. So I bought som=
e
kaowool and cut it into 1 inch strips, which I tuck into place around the=
top before turning the kiln onto HI. I take it off before unloading and
use
it again; and also brush the top after unloading and before re-loading to=
prevent crumbs getting on glazed ware.
Cat and Jill,
Sorry to bring this stuff up, but............ Cat..... your "gut" reacti=
on
to the stuff is a good one .
Refractory Ceramic Fiber (RCF)....... of which Kaowool is one "brand
name"......... likely presents some significant hazards if you breathe th=
e
tiny unseen bits of fiber that disturbing the friable blanket material wi=
ll
get into the air. There is a lot of concern about this material out in t=
he
regulatory, industrial, and health care world. As a kiln builder, I've
been studying the likely health impacts of it for a long time.........
kinda' scary stuff that deserves a GREAT deal of respect. It is not just=
like cotton even though it sort of resembles it and you can buy it about =
as
easily. (Even cotton dust isn't good to breathe .)
Do a web search on the terms "RCF" and "refractory ceramic fiber".......
and also check out references like "Artist Beware" by Dr. Michael McCann
and "Artists Complete Health and Safety Guide" by Industrial Hygienist
Monona Rossol. Also contact A.C.T.S. in New York city.....(Monona
Rossol)...... they have a website that will come up on a Google search. =
Look at OSHA's info on RCF. And check out the european countries stance =
on
this stuff. Oh yeah... check out the CLAYART archives too..... the subje=
ct
has been discussed here numerous times.
Note that the level of the stuff allowed in the air by OSHA is very, VERY=
small. And unless you have air sampling done, you don't know how much is=
in the air right around the kiln when you lean on that stuff and/or distu=
rb
it by moving it or as you say ....."brushing the top".
Basically the question is ....have we just created a sort of man-made
asbestos? Because one of the real concerns involves both lung cancer and=
mesothielioma ..... with decades of latency....... the time it is taking =
to
get definitive human study results is long. So there are still a LOT of=
questions about it. But there have been some very disturbing short term
animal studies. At the least, it is a good source for respirable
microcrystalline free silica...... which is a known human carcinogen, and=
also causes silicosis. As a potter.... you are already exposed to a
certain level of silica dust. Not good to add more potential sources if=
you don't HAVE to.
Recently some in the fiber industry started looking to produce a fiber th=
at
is soluble in lung fluids..... to improve the potential safety of the
product. They are going after this idea for one main reason that I can
see....... that THEY have some concerns about the preliminary test result=
s.
There is one fiber like this now on the market...... for mid-range
temperature use so far. That research is VERY new..... and it will be
multiple decades before anyone knows for sure if that avenue of research =
is
a really good one.
My personal recommendation is that you not utilize friable RCF in the
manner you are talking about here. You are providing a nice little sili=
ca
dust source for youself that you will be leaning into every time you plac=
e
an object into the kiln.
You'll see all sorts of uses for friable fiber products that people are
using in handcraft ceramics studios....... but that doesn't make them
"good" practices. Learn a bit about the hazards of the material and then=
make your own decisions.
Cleaning the fiber stuff off the brickwork will be a little tricky. Tiny=
fibers tend to stick ti if-brick pretty well. And the more the fiber is
fired, the more micro crystalline free silica it contains. Don't just dr=
y
brush it off. The small particles (you can't see) will stay in the air f=
or
hours and hours. Use wet methods....the water won't hurt the insulating
firebrick. (But DO turn off the breaker to the kiln....... just in case
you get sloppy .) It will take repeated scrubbings to get all the fib=
er
residue off. Throw out the sponge you are using when you are done. Ditt=
o
the water. Treat all the stuff that could be contaminated with the fiber=
s
as "suspect" .... don't let them dry out, seal them in plastic, and throw=
them out.
There are likely other ways to tighten up the lid seal that are potential=
ly
less hazardous. They may require more work to accomplish..... but in the=
log run they likely are a better solution for you.
I still work with a little RCF in kiln building projects...... but very,
VERY carefully. It is worked totally soaked. Blanket is soaked right in=
the cardboard box before even removing it. Wet fiber is kept in sealed
plastic garbage can liner bags. Whenever possible I use "hard" forms of =
it
(board). I wear personal protective equipment and coveralls. I wash up
well after working with it. Kiln building clothes don't go in the
household laundry. I set up local pickup and dilution ventilation. The
construction area is kept as clean as possible. After construction the
whole kiln site is thoroughly wet cleaned. And on the finished product,
the fiber is kept in "contained" locations.... behind metal jacketing or
behind a hard refractory coating......... places it can't easily get
disturbed.
Food for thought.
Best,
..............................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JohnBaymore.com
JBaymore@compuserve.com
Edouard Bastarache on sat 9 nov 02
Hello all,
for a comprehensive text on Man-Made Vitreous Fibers,
including kaolin fibers go to:
1-http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/Fibres_artificielles.htm
or
2-http://digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/index.html
Later,
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: John Baymore
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Kaol wool under elec. kiln lid / be careful
So... I had seen another potter put kaol wool strips between the top of the
top ring and the
lid, so I did it too. I hate that stuff! It reminds me of this fiber glass
surf board we kids played with growing up that wreaked havoc on our skin.
Anyways it doesn't seem to insulate as well as I wanted for the hassle of
leaning over the kiln to load and unload and get the fibers on my arms. I
even took the strips off in front when I was loading and unloading my kiln
and some of the fibers are still there. Anyone have a better solution?
Hi Cat - I have a similar problem. The bricks in my kiln lid have shifted
leaving an unacceptable gap between the kiln top and lid. So I bought some
kaowool and cut it into 1 inch strips, which I tuck into place around the
top before turning the kiln onto HI. I take it off before unloading and
use
it again; and also brush the top after unloading and before re-loading to
prevent crumbs getting on glazed ware.
Cat and Jill,
Sorry to bring this stuff up, but............ Cat..... your "gut" reaction
to the stuff is a good one .
Refractory Ceramic Fiber (RCF)....... of which Kaowool is one "brand
name"......... likely presents some significant hazards if you breathe the
tiny unseen bits of fiber that disturbing the friable blanket material will
get into the air. There is a lot of concern about this material out in the
regulatory, industrial, and health care world. As a kiln builder, I've
been studying the likely health impacts of it for a long time.........
kinda' scary stuff that deserves a GREAT deal of respect. It is not just
like cotton even though it sort of resembles it and you can buy it about as
easily. (Even cotton dust isn't good to breathe .)
Do a web search on the terms "RCF" and "refractory ceramic fiber".......
and also check out references like "Artist Beware" by Dr. Michael McCann
and "Artists Complete Health and Safety Guide" by Industrial Hygienist
Monona Rossol. Also contact A.C.T.S. in New York city.....(Monona
Rossol)...... they have a website that will come up on a Google search.
Look at OSHA's info on RCF. And check out the european countries stance on
this stuff. Oh yeah... check out the CLAYART archives too..... the subject
has been discussed here numerous times.
Note that the level of the stuff allowed in the air by OSHA is very, VERY
small. And unless you have air sampling done, you don't know how much is
in the air right around the kiln when you lean on that stuff and/or disturb
it by moving it or as you say ....."brushing the top".
Basically the question is ....have we just created a sort of man-made
asbestos? Because one of the real concerns involves both lung cancer and
mesothielioma ..... with decades of latency....... the time it is taking to
get definitive human study results is long. So there are still a LOT of
questions about it. But there have been some very disturbing short term
animal studies. At the least, it is a good source for respirable
microcrystalline free silica...... which is a known human carcinogen, and
also causes silicosis. As a potter.... you are already exposed to a
certain level of silica dust. Not good to add more potential sources if
you don't HAVE to.
Recently some in the fiber industry started looking to produce a fiber that
is soluble in lung fluids..... to improve the potential safety of the
product. They are going after this idea for one main reason that I can
see....... that THEY have some concerns about the preliminary test results.
There is one fiber like this now on the market...... for mid-range
temperature use so far. That research is VERY new..... and it will be
multiple decades before anyone knows for sure if that avenue of research is
a really good one.
My personal recommendation is that you not utilize friable RCF in the
manner you are talking about here. You are providing a nice little silica
dust source for youself that you will be leaning into every time you place
an object into the kiln.
You'll see all sorts of uses for friable fiber products that people are
using in handcraft ceramics studios....... but that doesn't make them
"good" practices. Learn a bit about the hazards of the material and then
make your own decisions.
Cleaning the fiber stuff off the brickwork will be a little tricky. Tiny
fibers tend to stick ti if-brick pretty well. And the more the fiber is
fired, the more micro crystalline free silica it contains. Don't just dry
brush it off. The small particles (you can't see) will stay in the air for
hours and hours. Use wet methods....the water won't hurt the insulating
firebrick. (But DO turn off the breaker to the kiln....... just in case
you get sloppy .) It will take repeated scrubbings to get all the fiber
residue off. Throw out the sponge you are using when you are done. Ditto
the water. Treat all the stuff that could be contaminated with the fibers
as "suspect" .... don't let them dry out, seal them in plastic, and throw
them out.
There are likely other ways to tighten up the lid seal that are potentially
less hazardous. They may require more work to accomplish..... but in the
log run they likely are a better solution for you.
I still work with a little RCF in kiln building projects...... but very,
VERY carefully. It is worked totally soaked. Blanket is soaked right in
the cardboard box before even removing it. Wet fiber is kept in sealed
plastic garbage can liner bags. Whenever possible I use "hard" forms of it
(board). I wear personal protective equipment and coveralls. I wash up
well after working with it. Kiln building clothes don't go in the
household laundry. I set up local pickup and dilution ventilation. The
construction area is kept as clean as possible. After construction the
whole kiln site is thoroughly wet cleaned. And on the finished product,
the fiber is kept in "contained" locations.... behind metal jacketing or
behind a hard refractory coating......... places it can't easily get
disturbed.
Food for thought.
Best,
..............................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JohnBaymore.com
JBaymore@compuserve.com
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