Spencer H. MacCallum on sat 9 nov 02
Cow chips are a classic cooking fuel used world-wide in developing
countries. They burn with an even heat and no offensive smell. However, they
must be from grass-fed cattle (or burros or horses or sheep, etc.).
Grain-fed won't work. I don't readily picture grass-fed people or chickens.
While we're on the subject, should you go experimenting with this superior
fuel, take care that it's completely dry--no damp spots in the center--and
for some reason I'm not certain about, the darker the better. Collect your
cow chips in the dry season and store enough to tide you over. When the
ground is wet, termites tend to come up in them from the ground, forming
their networks of earth tunnels, so you may end up with a chip that has lots
of dirt in it. They say there's an art to everything, and I suppose the same
goes for collecting cow chips. But it's a simple art, easily
earned. -Spencer
----- Original Message -----
From: "L. P. Skeen"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: mata ortiz, side bar
> Ok, this is going to sound gross, but I'm just thinking on the fly here.
(no
>pun intended...) What is it about cow pies that is special? Would it be
> possible (gross, yes, but possible?) to use human-pies instead? What
about
> chickens? Those guys are CONSTANT poopers..........
>
> L
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mel jacobson"
> Subject: mata ortiz, side bar
>
>
> > it must be noted that there are many people
> > in an isolated place, making lots of pots.
> >
> > there is no longer cow pies to go around.
> > the entire village is making pots, not many
> > raising cattle any longer.
mel jacobson on sat 9 nov 02
it must be noted that there are many people
in an isolated place, making lots of pots.
there is no longer cow pies to go around.
the entire village is making pots, not many
raising cattle any longer. i am sure the few
trees that are there are getting picked clean.
in a perfect world, there would be plenty
to go around. just not the way it is.
it is so easy to sit back and say.
`they must be purists`.
whatever they have comes from selling pots.
i have a hunch they will figure something out.
it may not be what collectors want.
mel
when you walk the streets of mata ortiz, some
pots are expensive...very, some are very inexpensive.
children sell `mata ortiz pots`.
they are not all 20,000 dollar collector pots.
and, those folks like to eat too.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Ron Collins on sat 9 nov 02
What about sawdust patties, held tog. with whatever? Plenty of sawdust in
most of latin america free for the taking, or almost free, and where labor
is cheap, it gives a person a job to make them, and then two or three start
to do it, when people buy from the one....then, there is another little job
market for a few people....there are other ways to continue to fire
traditionally....just may need sawdust patties....Melinda Collins
L. P. Skeen on sat 9 nov 02
Ok, this is going to sound gross, but I'm just thinking on the fly here. (no
pun intended...) What is it about cow pies that is special? Would it be
possible (gross, yes, but possible?) to use human-pies instead? What about
chickens? Those guys are CONSTANT poopers..........
L
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
Subject: mata ortiz, side bar
> it must be noted that there are many people
> in an isolated place, making lots of pots.
>
> there is no longer cow pies to go around.
> the entire village is making pots, not many
> raising cattle any longer.
L. P. Skeen on sun 10 nov 02
> Cow chips are a classic cooking fuel used world-wide in developing
> countries. They burn with an even heat and no offensive smell. However,
they
> must be from grass-fed cattle (or burros or horses or sheep, etc.).
> Grain-fed won't work. I don't readily picture grass-fed people or
chickens.
Thanks Spencer. Around here (the humid South) it's hard to get a cow pie
that dry.......
L
Wes Rolley on sun 10 nov 02
--=======455E5345=======
Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-311C1E48; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At 10:00 PM 11/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Ok, this is going to sound gross, but I'm just thinking on the fly here.=
(no
>pun intended...) What is it about cow pies that is special? Would it be
>possible (gross, yes, but possible?) to use human-pies instead? What about
>chickens? Those guys are CONSTANT poopers..........
I once took a workshop taught by Dolores and Emily, daughters of the great=
=20
Acoma potter, Lucy Lewis. As part of the workshop we were treated to a=20
discussion as to why cow was better than horse. It has to do with the=20
amounts of carbonaceous material that is still available and the density,=20
which affects the speed at which it burns. They greatly favored cow, not=20
horse.
Yes, there is a difference, but they all draw flies.
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far too=
=20
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am=20
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
wrolley@charter.net
(408)778-3024
--=======455E5345=======--
Snail Scott on sun 10 nov 02
At 03:29 PM 11/9/02 -0600, you wrote:
>What about sawdust patties, held tog. with whatever?
Around Mata Ortiz, there are as few trees as cattle.
-Snail
Snail Scott on sun 10 nov 02
At 10:00 PM 11/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>What is it about cow pies that is special? Would it be
>possible (gross, yes, but possible?) to use human-pies instead?
Nope. It's gotta be herbivore poop. (And no,
vegetarian-poop won't do it, sorry.) And what's
special about cowpies is their structure - wide,
thin, and flat. Cowpies can be layered around the
firing saggar, leaned up against it in an even
covering. And they stay put, intact until late
in the burning. Horse poop just piles up in a heap
around the bottom of the saggar, leaving the top
uncovered unless the bottom of the pile is way too
thick. Horse poop is usable for combustion
material inside the saggar, to give blackware, but
not as firing fuel, unless the manner of firing is
fundamentally altered.
-Snail
Kurt Wild on sun 10 nov 02
At 10:00 PM 11/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
> .........Would it be
>possible (gross, yes, but possible?) to use human-pies instead? ...
Seems possible to me if they were vegetarian "human pies". My assumption
(a guess) is that it is the vegetable/plant food that certain animals eat
that makes for the best "pie" fuel.
Kurt
Spencer H. MacCallum on sun 10 nov 02
I don't know about today, but some years ago in Mata Ortiz, when doing
reduction firing, some potters would make a bed of rather finely ground
horse manure on which the pot was placed before inverting the sagger over it
and building up with cow chips, beehive fashion, around and over it. I was
told that the horse manure helped give a metallic luster to the finish of
the pot. I might add, incidentally, that just before the pot was ready, the
potter would jiggle the sagger with a poker ever so slightly to admit some
air to cause combustion inside, creating carbon monoxide which, as I was
given to understand, introduced pure carbon into the pores of the clay,
intensifying the black brought about by the chemical reduction
rocess. -Spencer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wes Rolley"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: mata ortiz, side bar
At 10:00 PM 11/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Ok, this is going to sound gross, but I'm just thinking on the fly here.
(no
>pun intended...) What is it about cow pies that is special? Would it be
>possible (gross, yes, but possible?) to use human-pies instead? What about
>chickens? Those guys are CONSTANT poopers..........
I once took a workshop taught by Dolores and Emily, daughters of the great
Acoma potter, Lucy Lewis. As part of the workshop we were treated to a
discussion as to why cow was better than horse. It has to do with the
amounts of carbonaceous material that is still available and the density,
which affects the speed at which it burns. They greatly favored cow, not
horse.
Yes, there is a difference, but they all draw flies.
"I find I have a great lot to learn - or unlearn. I seem to know far too
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
wrolley@charter.net
(408)778-3024
Spencer H. MacCallum on sun 10 nov 02
Actually there is plenty of sawdust available around Mata Ortiz from saw
mills who process trees brought down from the mountains. I don't know why it
isn't used; I haven't heard of anyone trying it. Patties would be a
different approach, however, and I'll mention that to Juan Quezada. Thanks.
Since there are unlimited amounts of dried vegetal material around Mata
Ortiz, however, shortage of cow chips or other natural fuel is NOT the
problem it's been made out to be on this list. Their problem is a marketing
one, as I explained in detail in a posting yesterday. A tremendous help to
that marketing problem would be the possibility of determining by a
laboratory test whether a given pot was fired by dung fire or in a
commercial kiln. Can anyone imagine what such a test might be? Or suggest
anyone who might?
The question of sawdust brings to mind a favorite reminiscence from when I
first went searching for Juan Quezada in 1976. I met a potter, Manuel
Olivas, in Nuevo Casas Grandes. He was independent of the Mata Ortiz
tradition, but equally inventive. We became friends. He showed me how he'd
devised a semi-subterranean kiln, fired with sawdust. He fired at night. Why
at night? Because of the neighbors; it smoked a lot. A few months later, I
looked for Manuel and he'd moved. I had a hard time finding his new home on
the extreme, far edge of town. Why had he moved? He had lived a block from
the town plaza, and people noticed the buildings around the plaza were
turning gray. They didn't know why until they discovered it was from
Manuel's nighttime firings. Well, as we were visiting at Manuel's new home,
he showed me his new way of firing without sawdust. He'd rigged up a small
drum of kerosene on high stilts with a thin copper tube running down into a
large, steel-drum firing chamber. By the time the kerosene reached the
firing chamber, it had vaporized and seemed to work very well. The kerosene
drum on stilts was about four feet from his neighbor's fence line. As he was
explaining the operation, I started to walk through that space. Manuel
quickly cautioned me back. He said he'd had a accident a week earlier. An
explosion had severely burned his neighbors' pig. It had forced the
neighbors to prematurely butcher the hapless pig. The next time I came to
visit Manuel, he wasn't to be found. He and his family had moved again. This
time, it was to the pueblo of Casas Grandes, but well removed from the town.
The town has since grown out to envelop him. But he was there first, and, I
suppose, he's learned a thing or two; I haven't heard any complaints from
his neighbors. -Spencer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snail Scott"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: mata ortiz, side bar
> At 03:29 PM 11/9/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >What about sawdust patties, held tog. with whatever?
>
>
> Around Mata Ortiz, there are as few trees as cattle.
>
> -Snail
>
>
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