Rob Haugen on mon 11 nov 02
Mr. Peckham,
As I stated before, I am not going to turn clayart into a "he said/she =
said" about every detail involving Ann's kiln. The situation is now =
resolved and all of the involved parties are satisfied with the outcome. =
I will once again state that good customer service is something that I =
take very seriously. If you or anyone else would care to go further =
into the specific details as they relate to Ann's kiln, please feel free =
to call me at 800-241-4400 (I will pay for the phone call). As far as =
the types of kilns we at Olympic build, go to kilns-kilns.com and you =
will see more models and types of kilns available than any other =
manufacturer. We build kilns for the hobbyist, the potter, the =
professional and industry. Our goal is simple, to build the finest =
kilns available. ----- Original Message -----=20
From: RPeckham@cooksonelectronics.com=20
To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List=20
Cc: robhaugen@BELLSOUTH.NET=20
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 4:02 PM
Subject: Olympic Kiln (Long Rant)
I am sorry Mr. Haugan, but I beleive this is exactly the forum to =
discuss this. I believe this is mainly in your best interest to do so. =
I understand that sometimes things go wrong. I understand that it is a =
simple mistake to send a kiln wired for the wrong voltage. No big deal. =
Send her the parts to repair it, and reimburse her for hiring an =
electrician to do the work. It is unfortunate that she lost production =
time, and probably a few thousand dollars worth of orders, but things =
happen.=20
At this point you should have bent over backwards to make this happen =
quickly. Don't give some advice like "use the kiln as long as it =
doesn't trip the breaker" Fix the problem you caused, unless you have =
some reason for not doing so that you would like to use to defend your =
actions. Maybe Ann ordered the incorrect voltage? =20
Then it took another 2 months to get the correct elements, and there =
were only 5, and her kiln had 9. I ordered elements for my kiln, and =
they came in in about a week from a different manufacturer than built my =
kiln, and they were fine. Please defend this. Do you custom build all =
of your kilns, is there no QC dept? Do you document what you build? It =
is not a problem either way, but explain how this could happen, and =
explain why you were not more proactive to insure customer satisfaction. =
Do you just not care if a single customer is happy? Is your company =
more geared to deal with industrial ceramics companies?=20
Then there were some cracks found, and a decision was made to replace =
the kiln. You made the comment that you replaced the kiln at your =
expense. Of course you did. Who should have paid for it? Do you think =
it was not appropriate to replace the kiln? It sounds like your =
customer was overly patient. She says that she was only able to fire it =
a few times in this period. I would have been mental. 10 months, and =
you succeeded in sending her the wrong kiln again. I still consider =
$500 to be too little compensation for all of this aggravation. Your =
customer probably lost thousands of dollars because she gambled on =
dealing with your company. =20
The point is, you are a manufacturer, and a customer has made some =
comments in a very public way about your service, and as mayor mel says =
that is basically all that seperates you from your competitors. You =
need to defend your actions. I think you need to tell your side of the =
story. If there is more to the story, then enlighten us. Unless of =
course you just don't care what we think. =20
I could have posted this to you privately, but it is not private, it =
is public. I am sure many people out there have read Ann's account of =
doing business with you, and have decided to look elsewhere. If you =
don't reply, and explain yourselves, that won't change. I believe this =
is the forum for discussing issues with ceramics, and like it or not =
vendors are an issue that we all deal with. It is not a one sided =
street, as the vendors are ceramics people too, and have equal right to =
Clayart to explain their side of any issue. =20
I have reposted ann's post, along with your response below.=20
Randy Peckham=20
Below From Ann Semple=20
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
____ In November of 2001 I ordered and paid for a 12 cu ft Olympic =
front
load electric kiln, 240V with heavy duty elements and a =
Bartlett
controller. The cost of this order (in Canadian dollars) was =
$6,695.00. I
was told delivery would be about the third week in December. It =
arrived on
January 15, 2002 and I hired some people to help me moved it =
into the studio
kiln room, and then an electrician to hook it up.
The electrician was unable to come until nearly 2 weeks after =
the kiln
was situated in the kiln room, and when he hooked it up, he =
checked on the
power it was drawing - a whopping 96 volts! The panel on the =
front of the
kiln claimed the kiln would draw 52 volts, so I called the =
Vancouver Island
Pottery warehouse, from whom I had ordered the kiln to see what =
I should do,
and on their recommendation I called Rob Haugen at Olympic. He =
suggested I
use the kiln as it was as long as it didn't trip the power =
breaker, so I
fired it up, and the first time it didn't trip the breaker. The =
second time
it did. In the meantime I had done some investigating, and the =
only reason
it could be pulling so much voltage was that it was wired for =
208 volts, not
240 V as ordered. I was strongly cautioned not to fire it like =
this.=20
It was now the middle of February, and I called both Mr. =
Haugen and
Scott at Vancouver Island Pottery Warehouse, who also called Mr. =
Haugen, and
was told a new set of elements would be sent immediately.
I would have a hard time remembering details of these things =
except that
on the advise of my sister, I wrote down contacts and events as =
they
occurred, and am referring to them now.
After five weeks (March 25) there was no sign of the =
elements, so I
called Olympic again, and spoke with Mr. Haugen, who apologized, =
and said he
had forgotten about it, as the note had been shuffled to the =
bottom of his
pile, but would attend to it immediately, and send them out 2nd =
day express.
April 3rd I called again as there was no sign of them, and =
was assured
they had been sent and told if they hadn't arrived in another =
couple of
days, a second set would be sent out.
April 9 I called again, Mr. Haugen couldn't take my call, but =
a very
pleasant lady named Donna checked for me and said she would look =
after
sending the elements for me and call me back with a tracking =
number.
On April 11, I called again, Mr. Haugen was again =
unavailable, but I was
assured and the elements were being made at that time,and the =
next day Donna
called and left me a tracking number. The elements took another =
three weeks
to arrive, (not exactly second day delivery) and the electrician =
couldn't
come out another couple of days, but then I thought I was home =
free.
BUT when the electrician opened the package, there were only =
5
replacement elements in it - the kiln had 9. When Scott (at =
Pottery
Warehouse) called Olympic, he was told there were only 5 =
elements in the
kiln, so I took a digital photo, and sent one to him, from which =
he
confirmed there were 9 elements, at which time Mr. Haugen =
suggested that by
changing 5 elements, the voltage drawn would be lowered =
sufficiently to run
the kiln. While I had been involved in these telephone/e-mail
conversations, the electrician was checking out the kiln, and =
when I came
back, pointed out to me some cracks that had developed since he =
had first
wired it. Since I hadn't opened the kiln since the second =
unsuccessful
firing of it, I hadn't seen them, and I called Scott back yet =
again, and
then sent off some more digital photos.
At this point, Vancouver Island Pottery Supply called =
Greenbarn,(their
sister company on the mainland), who called Plainsman clay , and =
they did
the negotiating with Olympic who agreed to replace the kiln, =
this time
recommending fibre in the roof and door to avoid stress in those =
areas. I
agreed, on the condition that the kiln be coated with ITC. =
Olympic agreed to
pay for the manpower to remove the original kiln and move in =
the
replacement, and the electrician to disconnect and reconnect the =
kiln.
The replacement Kiln arrived on September 04, and the wiring =
was fine.
But the kiln was a 10 cu.ft one instead of the 12 cu ft ordered. =
So once
again I called Scott, and Plainsman clay contacted Olympic, who =
ultimately
agreed after a couple more weeks to reimburse me $500(US) for =
the
difference in kiln size should I decide to keep this kiln.
By now it was 11 months since I ordered and paid for this =
kiln, and if
I request yet another replacement, there's no telling when it =
will appear...
I opted to keep the 10 cu ft kiln.
Then I had to have all my new kiln shelves cut to fit the new =
kiln. And
that was done on last Wednesday. I finally fired on the weekend.
In all of this, Olympic has responded to problems fairly but =
slowly.
However, there are no excuses for any of the errors made, nor =
for
suggesting use of a kiln wired with the wrong elements, or for =
not knowing
how many elements are in a kiln made at the company. Surely =
there is some
kind of quality control at Olympic? And for one order to have =
generated so
many mistakes is untenable.
Ann -in the south west regions of Vancouver Island off the coast =
of British
Columbia, Canada, surrounded by evergreens, clean air, two =
muddy messy
dogs and two demented cats.
annsemple@shaw.ca
=20
Below from Bob Haugen=20
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---------=20
Ann did not have to wait 1 year to receive her kiln. The kiln that =
was =3D
replaced was fired up until the day that the new one was installed. =
As =3D
far as the $500 credit goes, this was what was agreed on by the =3D
manufacturer, the distributor, and the customer. (Please note that the =
=3D
$500 was in U.S. funds and that the $6500 is in Canadian funds.) =3D
Olympic Kilns also paid to have the old kiln removed and returned as =
=3D
well as having the new one delivered and installed. There is more to =
=3D
the story, however I do not feel that this all needs to be aired on =
this =3D
forum. As a manufacturer of kilns for over 35 years I know that =3D
everything does not always go as planned and that it is very important =
=3D
to try your best to make the situation right. =3D20
RPeckham@COOKSONELECTRONICS.COM on mon 11 nov 02
I am sorry Mr. Haugan, but I beleive this is exactly the forum to discuss
this. I believe this is mainly in your best interest to do so. I
understand that sometimes things go wrong. I understand that it is a
simple mistake to send a kiln wired for the wrong voltage. No big deal.
Send her the parts to repair it, and reimburse her for hiring an
electrician to do the work. It is unfortunate that she lost production
time, and probably a few thousand dollars worth of orders, but things
happen.
At this point you should have bent over backwards to make this happen
quickly. Don't give some advice like "use the kiln as long as it doesn't
trip the breaker" Fix the problem you caused, unless you have some reason
for not doing so that you would like to use to defend your actions. Maybe
Ann ordered the incorrect voltage?
Then it took another 2 months to get the correct elements, and there were
only 5, and her kiln had 9. I ordered elements for my kiln, and they came
in in about a week from a different manufacturer than built my kiln, and
they were fine. Please defend this. Do you custom build all of your
kilns, is there no QC dept? Do you document what you build? It is not a
problem either way, but explain how this could happen, and explain why you
were not more proactive to insure customer satisfaction. Do you just not
care if a single customer is happy? Is your company more geared to deal
with industrial ceramics companies?
Then there were some cracks found, and a decision was made to replace the
kiln. You made the comment that you replaced the kiln at your expense. Of
course you did. Who should have paid for it? Do you think it was not
appropriate to replace the kiln? It sounds like your customer was overly
patient. She says that she was only able to fire it a few times in this
period. I would have been mental. 10 months, and you succeeded in
sending her the wrong kiln again. I still consider $500 to be too little
compensation for all of this aggravation. Your customer probably lost
thousands of dollars because she gambled on dealing with your company.
The point is, you are a manufacturer, and a customer has made some
comments in a very public way about your service, and as mayor mel says
that is basically all that seperates you from your competitors. You need
to defend your actions. I think you need to tell your side of the story.
If there is more to the story, then enlighten us. Unless of course you
just don't care what we think.
I could have posted this to you privately, but it is not private, it is
public. I am sure many people out there have read Ann's account of doing
business with you, and have decided to look elsewhere. If you don't
reply, and explain yourselves, that won't change. I believe this is the
forum for discussing issues with ceramics, and like it or not vendors are
an issue that we all deal with. It is not a one sided street, as the
vendors are ceramics people too, and have equal right to Clayart to
explain their side of any issue.
I have reposted ann's post, along with your response below.
Randy Peckham
Below From Ann Semple
_____________________________________________________________________________
In November of 2001 I ordered and paid for a 12 cu ft Olympic front
load electric kiln, 240V with heavy duty elements and a Bartlett
controller. The cost of this order (in Canadian dollars) was $6,695.00. I
was told delivery would be about the third week in December. It arrived on
January 15, 2002 and I hired some people to help me moved it into the
studio
kiln room, and then an electrician to hook it up.
The electrician was unable to come until nearly 2 weeks after the kiln
was situated in the kiln room, and when he hooked it up, he checked on the
power it was drawing - a whopping 96 volts! The panel on the front of the
kiln claimed the kiln would draw 52 volts, so I called the Vancouver
Island
Pottery warehouse, from whom I had ordered the kiln to see what I should
do,
and on their recommendation I called Rob Haugen at Olympic. He suggested
I
use the kiln as it was as long as it didn't trip the power breaker, so I
fired it up, and the first time it didn't trip the breaker. The second
time
it did. In the meantime I had done some investigating, and the only
reason
it could be pulling so much voltage was that it was wired for 208 volts,
not
240 V as ordered. I was strongly cautioned not to fire it like this.
It was now the middle of February, and I called both Mr. Haugen and
Scott at Vancouver Island Pottery Warehouse, who also called Mr. Haugen,
and
was told a new set of elements would be sent immediately.
I would have a hard time remembering details of these things except
that
on the advise of my sister, I wrote down contacts and events as they
occurred, and am referring to them now.
After five weeks (March 25) there was no sign of the elements, so I
called Olympic again, and spoke with Mr. Haugen, who apologized, and said
he
had forgotten about it, as the note had been shuffled to the bottom of his
pile, but would attend to it immediately, and send them out 2nd day
express.
April 3rd I called again as there was no sign of them, and was assured
they had been sent and told if they hadn't arrived in another couple of
days, a second set would be sent out.
April 9 I called again, Mr. Haugen couldn't take my call, but a very
pleasant lady named Donna checked for me and said she would look after
sending the elements for me and call me back with a tracking number.
On April 11, I called again, Mr. Haugen was again unavailable, but I
was
assured and the elements were being made at that time,and the next day
Donna
called and left me a tracking number. The elements took another three
weeks
to arrive, (not exactly second day delivery) and the electrician couldn't
come out another couple of days, but then I thought I was home free.
BUT when the electrician opened the package, there were only 5
replacement elements in it - the kiln had 9. When Scott (at Pottery
Warehouse) called Olympic, he was told there were only 5 elements in the
kiln, so I took a digital photo, and sent one to him, from which he
confirmed there were 9 elements, at which time Mr. Haugen suggested that
by
changing 5 elements, the voltage drawn would be lowered sufficiently to
run
the kiln. While I had been involved in these telephone/e-mail
conversations, the electrician was checking out the kiln, and when I came
back, pointed out to me some cracks that had developed since he had first
wired it. Since I hadn't opened the kiln since the second unsuccessful
firing of it, I hadn't seen them, and I called Scott back yet again, and
then sent off some more digital photos.
At this point, Vancouver Island Pottery Supply called Greenbarn,(their
sister company on the mainland), who called Plainsman clay , and they did
the negotiating with Olympic who agreed to replace the kiln, this time
recommending fibre in the roof and door to avoid stress in those areas. I
agreed, on the condition that the kiln be coated with ITC. Olympic agreed
to
pay for the manpower to remove the original kiln and move in the
replacement, and the electrician to disconnect and reconnect the kiln.
The replacement Kiln arrived on September 04, and the wiring was fine.
But the kiln was a 10 cu.ft one instead of the 12 cu ft ordered. So once
again I called Scott, and Plainsman clay contacted Olympic, who ultimately
agreed after a couple more weeks to reimburse me $500(US) for the
difference in kiln size should I decide to keep this kiln.
By now it was 11 months since I ordered and paid for this kiln, and
if
I request yet another replacement, there's no telling when it will
appear...
I opted to keep the 10 cu ft kiln.
Then I had to have all my new kiln shelves cut to fit the new kiln. And
that was done on last Wednesday. I finally fired on the weekend.
In all of this, Olympic has responded to problems fairly but slowly.
However, there are no excuses for any of the errors made, nor for
suggesting use of a kiln wired with the wrong elements, or for not
knowing
how many elements are in a kiln made at the company. Surely there is some
kind of quality control at Olympic? And for one order to have generated
so
many mistakes is untenable.
Ann -in the south west regions of Vancouver Island off the coast of
British
Columbia, Canada, surrounded by evergreens, clean air, two muddy messy
dogs and two demented cats.
annsemple@shaw.ca
Below from Bob Haugen
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ann did not have to wait 1 year to receive her kiln. The kiln that was =
replaced was fired up until the day that the new one was installed. As =
far as the $500 credit goes, this was what was agreed on by the =
manufacturer, the distributor, and the customer. (Please note that the =
$500 was in U.S. funds and that the $6500 is in Canadian funds.) =
Olympic Kilns also paid to have the old kiln removed and returned as =
well as having the new one delivered and installed. There is more to =
the story, however I do not feel that this all needs to be aired on this =
forum. As a manufacturer of kilns for over 35 years I know that =
everything does not always go as planned and that it is very important =
to try your best to make the situation right. =20
SusanRaku@AOL.COM on tue 12 nov 02
Dear Ann, if you had reached Bob's father things would have been concluded
much sooner. He would have told you that you were the only one who complains
and that you have a lot of nerve using his time and 800 number. That was the
response that I got when I had a problem with a single element a few months
ago.
Best of luck.
Susan
foxpots on tue 12 nov 02
Dear Fellow Clay Arters,
You can check the archives for my negative experience with Olympic. The
bottom line is that, in my opinion, they were snakes in the grass.
Since I got a Bailey I have been very satisfied. You get service with
Bailey.
Jean Wadsworth Cochran
www.foxhollowpottery.com
> Dear Ann, if you had reached Bob's father things would have been
concluded
> much sooner. He would have told you that you were the only one who
complains
> and that you have a lot of nerve using his time and 800 number. That was
the
> response that I got when I had a problem with a single element a few
months
> ago.
>
> Best of luck.
>
> Susan
>
>
Leland G. Hall on tue 12 nov 02
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:05:02 EST, SusanRaku@AOL.COM wrote:
>Dear Ann, if you had reached Bob's father things would have been concluded
>much sooner. He would have told you that you were the only one who
complains
>and that you have a lot of nerve using his time and 800 number. That was
the
>response that I got when I had a problem with a single element a few months
>ago.
>
>Best of luck.
>
>Susan
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
What would happen if we potters treated our customers this way?
Leland Hall
Before The Wheel
La Pine, OR
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