Jeanette Harris on fri 15 nov 02
>Hello all,
>I am considering installing an electric kiln in a triple garage.
>The garage will normally have two vehicles in it and the kiln will
>be in the third space. Would there be a danger having an electric
>kiln within say 15 feet of vehicles with full gas tanks?
>Sharon in small town Missouri
>
Hi, Sharon,
My VW bug shares a garage with a kiln. When I fire it, I just back
the car out and open the doors--lots of air circulation and no
corrosion on the car.
Jeanette Harris
in Scanahovia
(Poulsbo WA)
Sharon Tauritz on fri 15 nov 02
Hello all,
I am considering installing an electric kiln in a triple garage.
The garage will normally have two vehicles in it and the kiln will
be in the third space. Would there be a danger having an electric
kiln within say 15 feet of vehicles with full gas tanks?
Sharon in small town Missouri
Nancy Guido on fri 15 nov 02
Hi,
My kilns are in the garage. I have a 2-1/2 car garage and only one vehicle
ever makes it in and then only in the winter. My husband built me a little
firewall - more to keep kids out than anything else. I don't worry about the
car except the way it smells after a firing if I've waxed the bottoms of my
tiles. The big kiln has its own circuit breaker. The garage is attached to
the house and the big kiln actually is just behind the wall of my office
where this computer sits.
Nancy G.
(kiln is down to 623 F - it will be too hot to open even later tonight so
I'll have to get the rest of the stuff out in the morning.)
Jose A. Velez on fri 15 nov 02
Sharon wrote:
> I am considering installing an electric kiln in a triple garage.
> The garage will normally have two vehicles in it and the kiln will
> be in the third space. Would there be a danger having an electric
> kiln within say 15 feet of vehicles with full gas tanks?
Sharon:
I use an electric kiln in a garage and have gasoline storage in containers,
lawn mower and car tank. As a practice before I turn the kiln on, I move
the car out of the garage, move the mower and containers as far away from
the kiln as possible. In addition I make sure there are no cardboard boxes,
wood, etc. adjacent to the kiln and leave the garage door open during the
firing. Industrial safety teaches that to sustain combustion you need three
things: a source of energy, a combustible material and oxygen. If you have
the three present it is always prudent to remove one of then to avoid
accidentally having the three present at the same spot. Accidents most
frequently occur when something happens we did not expect, initiating a
chain reaction of some sort. Sometimes two or more unexpected events concur
even though probabilities of that happening are small. For instance a car
gasoline leak, is not something you expect but there is a finite probability
that at any given time it can happen. If it were to happen in an enclosed
garage the concentration of vapors could be high enough to ignite on contact
with a hot surface. Why take the chance?
Best wishes,
Jose A. Velez
Maid O'Mud on fri 15 nov 02
We did it for 10 years (til I finally saved for a kiln room off the =
studio) and never had a problem. We have a double garage; and on firing =
days, left one car in the driveway. It's great in the winter, too, as =
you get into a pre-heated car.
....your mileage may vary...
Sam - Maid O'Mud Pottery
Melbourne, Ontario CANADA
"First, the clay told me what to do.
Then, I told the clay what to do.
Now, we co-operate."
sam 1994
http://www.ody.ca/~scuttell/
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Sharon Tauritz=20
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=20
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 1:39 PM
Subject: Kiln in Garage
Hello all,
I am considering installing an electric kiln in a triple garage.
The garage will normally have two vehicles in it and the kiln will
be in the third space. Would there be a danger having an electric
kiln within say 15 feet of vehicles with full gas tanks?
Sharon in small town Missouri
Jennifer F Boyer on sat 16 nov 02
I think corrosion might be more of a worry than fire risk.(as
long as things are kept 3 feet away from the kiln. I had a
friend who fired to cone 10 in an electric kiln in a small room
with no venting. The windows in that room were cloudy and etched
on the inside!
Jeanette Harris wrote:
>
> >Hello all,
> >I am considering installing an electric kiln in a triple garage.
> >The garage will normally have two vehicles in it and the kiln will
> >be in the third space. Would there be a danger having an electric
> >kiln within say 15 feet of vehicles with full gas tanks?
> >Sharon in small town Missouri
> >
> Hi, Sharon,
> My VW bug shares a garage with a kiln. When I fire it, I just back
> the car out and open the doors--lots of air circulation and no
> corrosion on the car.
>
> Jeanette Harris
> in Scanahovia
> (Poulsbo WA)
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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Jennifer Boyer mailto:jboyer@adelphia.net
Thistle Hill Pottery Montpelier VT USA
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
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for web hoaxes and junk:
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Arnold Howard on sat 16 nov 02
People have been firing their kilns in garages for decades. But you
should follow basic precautions.
Remove the cars from the garage when you fire the kiln. Also remove
lawn mowers, cans of gasoline, paint, etc. Your local fire marshall
would strongly recommend this.
The fumes from the kiln can damage the paint on a car. But even if
you use a kiln vent to eliminate this problem, still park the cars
outside the garage when firing the kiln.
Keep the lid of the kiln closed when the kiln is not in use. A fire
marshall called me one time to discuss a fire in a residential
garage. It was caused by a kiln with an open lid. If for some
reason the kiln is turned on while you are away, the heat will stay
safely inside the kiln so long as the lid is closed.
Install an electrical disconnect near the kiln to disconnect the
power when the kiln is not in use. You could also turn off the
kiln's power at the breaker panel after each firing. But an
electrical disconnect box near the kiln is better, because it
lessens wear on the circuit breaker.
With best wishes,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, Inc.
--- Sharon Tauritz wrote:
> Hello all,
> I am considering installing an electric kiln in a triple garage.
> The garage will normally have two vehicles in it and the kiln
> will
> be in the third space. Would there be a danger having an electric
> kiln within say 15 feet of vehicles with full gas tanks?
> Sharon in small town Missouri
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SAM YANCY on sat 16 nov 02
Sharon - I do the same thing. Right now I'm firing a electric Kiln with two
collector cars withing 8 feet distance, Have not had a problem. However since my
living area is above the garage, I installed a sprinkler system in the garage, to
protect the cars, and my self - just in case. Sam in FOGGY Daly City, Calif.
Sharon Tauritz wrote:
> Hello all,
> I am considering installing an electric kiln in a triple garage.
> The garage will normally have two vehicles in it and the kiln will
> be in the third space. Would there be a danger having an electric
> kiln within say 15 feet of vehicles with full gas tanks?
> Sharon in small town Missouri
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Paul Gerhold on sat 16 nov 02
Sharon
Depends on your eyesight and brakes
Paul
Paul Gerhold on sat 16 nov 02
Sharon
On a more serious note please make sure you have a good fire extinguisher at
the entrance to the garage-you should have one whether or not there is a
kiln.You should also have one near the kitchen.
And smoke detectors are not a bad idea either.
Paul
bonnie staffel on wed 22 dec 04
Hi Clayarters,
I have a large DaVinci L&L Cone 10 electric kiln, with a kiln sitter, timer
and a computerized ramping on the wall in the family garage. I have been
having my family keep their cars outside of the garage while I am firing. I
have fired my kilns for many years overnight so that I could watch to make
sure they are off in the morning, including checking a couple of times
during the night. I don't feel I am being overly cautious here but my
daughter doesn't feel there is any danger with the cars inside. Duh??? Any
good reasons I can use to back up my practice? Seems like they don't like
to clean the snow off their cars in the morning before going to work.
Shucks!!!!
I think that Lili's comment about the fire insurance is a good reason for
making one's firing as safe as possible.
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
Charter Member Potters Council
Elizabeth Priddy on wed 22 dec 04
show her the rusty metal that invariably occurs with kiln pieces and parts and ask her if
she wants her car to look like that.
probablynot accurate or likely with the occassional exposure, but scare tactics rarey are.
bonnie staffel wrote:
Hi Clayarters,
...daughter doesn't feel there is any danger with the cars inside. Duh??? Any
good reasons I can use to back up my practice? Seems like they don't like
to clean the snow off their cars in the morning before going to work.
Shucks!!!!
I think that Lili's comment about the fire insurance is a good reason for
making one's firing as safe as possible.
Elizabeth Priddy
252-504-2622
1273 Hwy 101
Beaufort, NC 28516
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
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Kathi LeSueur on wed 22 dec 04
bstaffel@CHARTERMI.NET wrote:
>Hi Clayarters,
>
>I have a large DaVinci L&L Cone 10 electric kiln, with a kiln sitter, timer
>and a computerized ramping on the wall in the family garage........ I don't feel I am being overly cautious here but my daughter doesn't feel there is any danger with the cars inside......Any good reasons I can use to back up my practice?>>>>>
>
Several years ago a relay stuck on my Evenheat kiln. I was firing a
bisque and it was one of the few times I'd let it finish off in the
middle of the night. About three a.m. I woke up, looked out to the
studio, and saw the kiln glowing much brighter than it should have. I
went out to check it. The computer said 1400 degrees. I knew that it was
much hotter than that and shut it off. When I opened it I could tell
that it went at least close to cone ten. I shutter to think what would
have happened if I'd had flammables nearby. Never trust the sitter,
timer, or computer. They can fail.
Kathi
Snail Scott on wed 22 dec 04
At 12:00 AM 12/22/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>I have...electric kiln...in the family garage...I have been
>having my family keep their cars outside of the garage while I am
firing...Any
>good reasons I can use to back up my practice?
Kiln fumes are a bit corrosive. It's not likely
to do much to new paint-protected metal, but older
paint may not protect as well, leading to faster
rusting that would be the case otherwise. Also,
we've seen a lot of evidence for etching of window
glass from sulfur in the fumes. I don't know how
long you keep cars in your family (etching is not
an instantaneous phenomenon - takes years) but
keeping the glass unfogged and clear over the
long run would be a good reason for parking outside.
Of course, rust and hail damage and hard starting
will be increased by parking outside, so it's
probably a tradeoff.
(Anyone know the effects on rubber and plastics?)
The less often you fire, the less cumulative
damage there will be, but the inconvenience to
your family will also be proportionately less, so
that's a zero-sum consideration.
If you are the 'keep cars 5 years or less' type,
and they're not classics, go ahead and park 'em
indoors while firing. If you just want an excuse
to keep 'em out, these should do.
-Snail
ccpottery@BELLSOUTH.NET on wed 22 dec 04
Well, call me crazy, but I leave the cars in the garage.
Otherwise, I would also be the valet service!
Both my kilns are well vented and the electrics were
installed by a professional electrician.
Never have seen one speck of rust on my kilns or my car.
Can't quite see how oxidation firings could cause rust. ( ?? )
Two things to think about ...
Tell your insurance company about the kilns in the garage.
If you don't, they will not cover damage from kiln mishaps.
Mine did not charge me anything extra for having them.
Also, you said your kilns were against the wall.
Hope that was just a figure of speech since they should
be placed away from flammable walls.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina - Santa is watching, so be very very good!!
John Rodgers on wed 22 dec 04
Bonnie, over the years when I had my shop in Alaska, I noticed that the
windows slowly over time took on a frosted glass appearance. It appeared
that perhaps something in the fumes from the kilns was etching the
glass. We fired loads and loads and loads of porcelain to cone six, then
fired those same loads coated with china paints. Literally tons of clay
and pounds and pounds of china paint were fired there.
I wouldn't leave a vehicle or anything with glass in your garage shop
environment because I believe, based on my actual experience, that
damage to the glass at least -- and maybe even the paint -- might occur.
Something to think about.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
bonnie staffel wrote:
>Hi Clayarters,
>
>I have a large DaVinci L&L Cone 10 electric kiln, with a kiln sitter, timer
>and a computerized ramping on the wall in the family garage. I have been
>having my family keep their cars outside of the garage while I am firing. I
>have fired my kilns for many years overnight so that I could watch to make
>sure they are off in the morning, including checking a couple of times
>during the night. I don't feel I am being overly cautious here but my
>daughter doesn't feel there is any danger with the cars inside. Duh??? Any
>good reasons I can use to back up my practice? Seems like they don't like
>to clean the snow off their cars in the morning before going to work.
>Shucks!!!!
>
>I think that Lili's comment about the fire insurance is a good reason for
>making one's firing as safe as possible.
>
>Bonnie Staffel
>http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
>http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
>Charter Member Potters Council
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
>
bonnie staffel on thu 23 dec 04
Thanks so much for the comments on the cars in the garage problem. No it is
not against the wall, but the kiln is about 24" away from a drywall finished
wall. About three feet of room on the right side for me to get through to
turn on the computer and to set it is adequate. Left side is a steel
shelving unit where I put my pots to be ready to load. The kiln is safely
placed. When the cars are in the garage, it is a tight garage. No
classics, just ordinary everyday cars.
Anyway, I suggested that they pull the cars into the warm garage in the
morning for a quick meltdown without having to clean them. That seemed to
satisfy them and me.
Regards, Bonnie Staffel
DVD and Video on Throwing with Slabs and Coils shown on my website:
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
Charter Member Potters Council
Bob Masta on thu 23 dec 04
Bonnie:
Regarding safety, your daughter may have heard that
heat alone will not ignite gasoline fumes.
The following will attest to that, but with a cautionary
note that may apply to your kiln.
Many years ago I was an engineer at GM's Cadillac division,
and one project I worked on was trying to determine
the cause of a couple of engine fires that were reported
from the field after we introduced electronic fuel injection.
Since fuel injection meant that fuel at relatively high pressure was
present in the engine compartment, a leak in the fuel
line could provide the combusible. But what was causing
it to ignite? We had a car built with a Plexiglas hood and
a tripod holding a high-speed movie camera, fully equipped with
fire extinguishers that could douse the engine
compartment via a switch inside the car.
We made a tiny leak in the fuel line so it sprayed over the
hot engine, then we drove this beast around the proving
ground, trying various schemes to see what it took to get
it to light. We had raw fuel hitting the hot exhaust
manifolds, and our fume detectors showed we had
perfect combustion conditions. But we couldn't get
ignition. We even tried cutting insulation on spark plug wires,
but were unable to get an ignition spark.
It finally occurred to me that we were overlooking
lower-voltage sources. The air conditioner compressor
uses a big solenoid to engage it, connected with a
grounding wire screwed to the engine block. If that
screw came out, the wire might bounce and spark as
the A/C engaged. At first we had a hard time getting
just the right bounce, so I would move the wire a bit
and we'd drive down the "washboard road" track again. After
a few tries I finally got up onto the hood and hung onto
the camera tripod as we bounced along, so I could
see if there really was a spark. We got some great
footage of the spark igniting a flame, and the flame front
spreading outward in the movie frame... along with the back of
my head moving *out* of the frame before the extinguishers
doused the fire!
The point here is that your garage is likely to have gasoline
fumes in it. Your kiln may or may not have a conventional
relay whose contacts could spark, but there are certainly
plenty of other possibilities including the light switch on the
wall. Not worth a chance, I'd say.
Best regards,
Bob Masta
potsATdaqartaDOTcom
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