Working Potter on sun 17 nov 02
In a message dated 11/17/2002 6:20:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gayle@CLAYBAIR.COM writes:
I had that happen to me three times in my long run, that I remember,
with no warning from gallerys that had paid on time and sold well but when
they ended it they were gone ''poof'' no hint where my stuff ended up
going either.I tried to track them but never found them.
Misty
> I just do not understand why, when a shop goes bankrupt,
> the work is not returned to the artists/owners.
> This seems completely illogical not to mention unjust.
> Is there some explanation, safeguard, legislation to protect the artisans?
>
>
Craig Martell on sun 17 nov 02
Gayle asked:
>I just do not understand why, when a shop goes bankrupt,
>the work is not returned to the artists/owners.
>This seems completely illogical not to mention unjust.
>Is there some explanation, safeguard, legislation to protect the artisans?
There are laws on the books in Oregon that protect an artist's work that is
consigned to a gallery. I don't know the whole story about other places so
I'll just comment on the Oregon law.
The law in Oregon states that the Gallery never holds title to a consigned
work. It is held "in trust" by the gallery for the artist. When the work
is sold and the artist is paid "in full", the title passes directly from
the artist to the client who has purchased the work.
Another really important thing about the above statement is that creditors
of the gallery cannot sieze consigned works as payment for debts owed by
the gallery should the gallery go belly up and or bankrupt. The artists
get their work back period.
The law also states that the gallery cannot operate on funds owed to the
artists for sale of consigned work. If a gallery has sold your work and
owes money to you for that sale, they cannot withold payment because they
have bills to pay. They can only use the percentage owed the gallery for
sale of the work. The rest is held "in trust" for the artists.
regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
KLeSueur@AOL.COM on sun 17 nov 02
Consignment varies from state to state, but it is not unusual for the consigned work to be considered "assets of the business" and thereby subject to sale to pay off bankrupcy claims. If that's the case you, as as a claiment, need to get in line behind the other creditors such as the bank, the leaseholder. Unlikely you will get either your money or your work back.
Kathi
Hendrix, Taylor J. on sun 17 nov 02
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Martell [mailto:ashglaze@WVI.COM]
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:48 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Consignment - whose work is it anyway?
Gayle asked:
>I just do not understand why, when a shop goes bankrupt,
>the work is not returned to the artists/owners.
>This seems completely illogical not to mention unjust.
>Is there some explanation, safeguard, legislation to protect the =
artisans?
There are laws on the books in Oregon that protect an artist's work that =
is
consigned to a gallery. I don't know the whole story about other places =
so
I'll just comment on the Oregon law.
The law in Oregon states that the Gallery never holds title to a =
consigned
work. It is held "in trust" by the gallery for the artist. When the =
work
is sold and the artist is paid "in full", the title passes directly from
the artist to the client who has purchased the work.
Another really important thing about the above statement is that =
creditors
of the gallery cannot sieze consigned works as payment for debts owed by
the gallery should the gallery go belly up and or bankrupt. The artists
get their work back period.
The law also states that the gallery cannot operate on funds owed to the
artists for sale of consigned work. If a gallery has sold your work and
owes money to you for that sale, they cannot withold payment because =
they
have bills to pay. They can only use the percentage owed the gallery =
for
sale of the work. The rest is held "in trust" for the artists.
regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =
melpots@pclink.com.
Hendrix, Taylor J. on sun 17 nov 02
Sorry everyone. Stupid clicky finger.
Here is what I meant to send with my last post.
Texas' Artists' Consignment Act does protect the artist in many cases=20
from a "claim, lien, or security interest of a creditor of the dealer."
Someone has gone to bat for the starving artists in the Lone Star State,
it seems.
Taylor, in Waco
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Martell [mailto:ashglaze@WVI.COM]
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 7:48 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Consignment - whose work is it anyway?
Gayle asked:
>I just do not understand why, when a shop goes bankrupt,
>the work is not returned to the artists/owners.
>This seems completely illogical not to mention unjust.
>Is there some explanation, safeguard, legislation to protect the =
artisans?
There are laws on the books in Oregon that protect an artist's work that =
is
consigned to a gallery. ............
Stephani Stephenson on sun 17 nov 02
Gayle wrote:
I just read about a chain of craft stores going belly up.
All the displayed work was consignment. Most artisans
didn't get their work back and some heard that it was trashed.
I just do not understand why, when a shop goes bankrupt,
the work is not returned to the artists/owners.
This seems completely illogical not to mention unjust.
Is there some explanation, safeguard, legislation to protect the
artisans?
Gayle Bair
Gayle
this happened to me once.
I lived 1200 miles from the gallery. (gallery in Oregon, me in Montana)
It closed and EVERYTHING was impounded in a warehouse somewhere,
supposedly to be liquidated , for creditors.
Two things saved me and got my work returned to me.
1. this happened in Oregon and the state of Oregon has a CONSIGNMENT
LAW, which gives some protections to the artist.
2. the Oregon Arts Commission had on staff a truly heroic, energetic
woman . She was probably contacted by some outraged Oregon artists who
had work at the gallery . She took it as her duty to contact other
artists, such as myself, who had no idea the gallery went bankrupt. And
I believe she inserted herself into the proceedings and ensure that
there was a way to return work. It took time, almost a year. Artists
had only a 2 day period in which they could claim and pick up work. A
dear friend volunteered to make an 8 hour RT drive to retrieve my
work for me, ( I was in Montana and this was in the very SW coast of
Oregon.)
Not only did the OAC staffer make sure that event happened but she
foiled an attempt that was made by the liquidator to charge the artists
an exorbitant storage fee for the time period where the work was
impounded.
She kept us all in touch with arrangements as they unfolded. Thank
goodness for that law, and for someone who was willing to make sure it
was followed.
I am not sure of the role of the gallery owners and manager . they wrote
me a check for sale of some items. In retrospect, it was dated one day
before the bankruptcy day so I believe they tried to get some money to
the artists as best they could...I think everything was impounded very
quickly and was out of their hands after that...I do know we were not
informed and had no opportunity to remove work. This was a nice gallery
and nice folks, but something went very wrong, and I will never know
exactly what, how or when.
The Oregon Arts commission told me that in states without a consignment
law, we would have had little opportunity to retrieve work...yes even
though it belonged entirely to us, the artists, and not the gallery.
That is a horrifying thing to learn, so it would be worthwhile for you
to see what the situation is in the states where you have work....
for me it is another reason I have tried to move away from consignment
sales.....
sincerely
Stephani stephenson
claybair on sun 17 nov 02
I just read about a chain of craft stores going belly up.
All the displayed work was consignment. Most artisans
didn't get their work back and some heard that it was trashed.
I just do not understand why, when a shop goes bankrupt,
the work is not returned to the artists/owners.
This seems completely illogical not to mention unjust.
Is there some explanation, safeguard, legislation to protect the artisans?
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
L. P. Skeen on sun 17 nov 02
Gayle,
Laws on consignment vary from state to state, but I don't know of one where
the work on consignment does not STILL belong to the artist until it is
sold. This is one reason you DEFINITELY want to have a contract with anyone
you consign with, and be sure they have insurance too. Hey, that brings a
thought - if you have stuff in a store where it was on consignment and they
trash it, wonder if the insurance would cover.........
L
----- Original Message -----
From: "claybair"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 5:41 PM
Subject: Consignment - whose work is it anyway?
> I just read about a chain of craft stores going belly up.
> All the displayed work was consignment. Most artisans
> didn't get their work back and some heard that it was trashed.
> I just do not understand why, when a shop goes bankrupt,
> the work is not returned to the artists/owners.
> This seems completely illogical not to mention unjust.
> Is there some explanation, safeguard, legislation to protect the artisans?
>
> Gayle Bair
> Bainbridge Island, WA
> http://claybair.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Bobbruch1@AOL.COM on mon 18 nov 02
<<<<where
the work on consignment does not STILL belong to the artist until it is sold.
This is one reason you DEFINITELY want to have a contract with anyone you
consign with, and be sure they have insurance too.
Under consignment laws in most states, the title (ownership) of the work
stays with the artist until the artist is paid. If piece is sold and the
gallery gets paid and the funds go up in smoke and the artist is never paid,
then I think that the artist has a theoretical right to take back the work
from the purchaser. How that would work in reality is another question.
Also, the funds from sales cannot be used as general expenses by the gallery.
That means that the artist does not become one of the unsecured creditors of
the gallery in the distribution of whatever funds remain. Whether that means
that means that the artist can go outside of the bankruptcy if there is no
money to distribute and attach the personal assets of the gallery owner is
another question. All of this is why the above comments are so correct - a
contract is a very important part of the consignment sales process, and I
think that a very good one exists in the archives.
In the case mentioned in a previous post, it was said that the artists' work
was "trashed." Maybe I am cynical, but I wonder about that. Maybe the
gallery owner actually sold the work, perhaps at discounted fire sale prices,
pocketed the funds, and told everyone that they threw out the work. Maybe
someone in the legal field could comment, but I would think that negligence
could put a different spin on the bankruptcy proceedings. In lawsuits
against businesses, lawyers are often trying to "pierce company veils" and
find reasons to go after the individuals in charge in the event that the
company cannot pay - and I believe that negligence can provide a means to do
that.
Bob Bruch
L. P. Skeen on mon 18 nov 02
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephani Stephenson"
Subject: Consignment - whose work is it anyway?
> I lived 1200 miles from the gallery. (gallery in Oregon, me in Montana)
> It closed and EVERYTHING was impounded in a warehouse somewhere,
> supposedly to be liquidated , for creditors.
I did the same thing once, (consigned work in Atlanta) and learned the hard
way that consignment any further than you can drive in an hour or 2 is a
REALLLLLLLLLLLLLY bad idea. If you can't be nearby to keep an eye on your
work, you don't have any idea what they're doing with it, or how they're
doing as a business in general.
L
Janet Kaiser on mon 18 nov 02
Until such time as you are paid, the work remains your legal property. The
gallery is only acting as an agent when work is on consignment. Of course
your artist-gallery contract or more properly "Consignment Agreement" will
have all this stated clearly in a specific clause!
The legal situation in the UK is similar to that in Oregon as described by
Craig Martell.
HOWEVER you need documentation to prove that it is "held in trust" (i.e.
not already paid for by the gallery and therefore their bone-fide
inventory/property) to the courts, bailiffs, executors (gallery owners can
die as well as suddenly going bust or mysteriously disappearing) or any
other third party, including new owners and heirs.
REMEMBER: it does not help having the law "on your side", if you cannot
prove it! It is just one more reason to keep thorough, up-to-date and
correct documentation at all times. No good presenting tatty little scraps
of paper as "proof of ownership"!
Secondly, it is no good knowing/having the law is on your side, if there is
not some structure in place, to make sure that the law is fulfilled to the
letter. It may involve a great deal of running around, knocking on doors
and even harassing individual officials and others to make sure you do get
your work back, especially if it is impounded or in "safe keeping"
somewhere or other.
Thirdly, the cost of recovering what is your property can be very high. Any
court proceedings in the UK are extremely expensive, especially if the
claim is outside the remit of a Small Claims Court. The physical and mental
hassle on top of costs in time and money can make the whole exercise
daunting and not to say "uneconomic".
It may well also be illegal for a gallery to operate using funds belonging
to artists in law, HOWEVER what is (dis)allowed and what happens are two
very different kettles of fish! There are stirring stories of galleries
doing just that! Who was around to stop them? Richard Jeffreys is no longer
monitoring this list, but he could name names... A maker and gallery owner
who sells the work and then lives the life of Riley until it becomes too
hot to handle with fellow artists and makers hammering on his door. He then
makes and sells a (usually) commissioned piece to bail himself out. Then it
all starts over again... This particular gallerist has a way of cooking the
books to his own satisfaction, but who is going to stop him? Artists and
makers STILL give him work on commission, although he is known for this
behaviour. It stands to reason that gallerists who do not have "alternative
income sources" cannot behave in the same way, without someone coming to
grief sooner or later.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>There are laws on the books in Oregon that protect an artist's work that
is
>consigned to a gallery. I don't know the whole story about other places
so
>I'll just comment on the Oregon law.
>
>The law in Oregon states that the Gallery never holds title to a consigned
>work. It is held "in trust" by the gallery for the artist. When the work
>is sold and the artist is paid "in full", the title passes directly from
>the artist to the client who has purchased the work.
>
>Another really important thing about the above statement is that creditors
>of the gallery cannot sieze consigned works as payment for debts owed by
>the gallery should the gallery go belly up and or bankrupt. The artists
>get their work back period.
>
>The law also states that the gallery cannot operate on funds owed to the
>artists for sale of consigned work. If a gallery has sold your work and
>owes money to you for that sale, they cannot withold payment because they
>have bills to pay. They can only use the percentage owed the gallery for
>sale of the work. The rest is held "in trust" for the artists.
>
>regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art =95 Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: 01766-523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
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