Hank Murrow on tue 3 dec 02
On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, at 05:37 PM, Judy Musicant wrote:
> I'd love your thoughts on a problem that's recently arisen in our
> guild. For some years, we've been doing shows in a particular
> location that can accommodate approximately 20 potters. Our shows
> aren't juried, and until very recently, there was room for any potter
> who wanted to participate. The shows have now become quite popular,
> and the guild has grown - so we now have more potters than room for
> them. We are starting to have discussions about how to determine who
> can be in the show. Certainly one possibility is to draw lots. This,
> however, could result in people who join the guild solely to
> participate in the show - they don't come to meetings or contribute in
> any other way- getting in and long time guild members and show
> supporters being frozen out.
> Has anyone dealt with this kind of issue? Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Judy Musicant
>
Dear Judy;
Check with the Oregon Potters Association
(http://www.oregonpotters.org/Home.htm), and perhaps Cynthia Spencer
(http://www.cmug.com/~cynthia_spencer/index.html) who has been with
them a long time. Showcase is the annual show in Portland, OR, and
grossed $504,000 last year! The problems you cite have been largely
solved.
Clayfest is the OPA show in Eugene, and there is info here:
http://www.oregonpotters.org/clayfest.htm
Best, Hank in Eugene.
Judy Musicant on tue 3 dec 02
I'd love your thoughts on a problem that's recently arisen in our guild. For some years, we've been doing shows in a particular location that can accommodate approximately 20 potters. Our shows aren't juried, and until very recently, there was room for any potter who wanted to participate. The shows have now become quite popular, and the guild has grown - so we now have more potters than room for them. We are starting to have discussions about how to determine who can be in the show. Certainly one possibility is to draw lots. This, however, could result in people who join the guild solely to participate in the show - they don't come to meetings or contribute in any other way- getting in and long time guild members and show supporters being frozen out.
Has anyone dealt with this kind of issue? Thanks for any suggestions.
Judy Musicant
Gail Dapogny on wed 4 dec 02
Judy,
Sounds like you need to have some requirements in your guild, such as
meeting attendance, x amount of work on the kilns, x amount of cleanup
work, x amount of miscellaneous work, etc. Consider a point system in which
you assign points to tasks. In our guild, our work points have to at least
match the cubic inches that we fire (glaze). We all have to do a certain
amount of cleanup (we assign 3 people each weekend to thoroughly clean the
building), a certain amount of clay-making, kiln-related work that doesn't
have to include firing if the person is nervous about it; it could be
shelf-chipping for example, or applying kiln wash; or unbricking a kiln
after firing. Plus lots of other jobs that come up all the time. We can't
be at all behind in points or in clay-making just before a sale. You will
still get only minimum work from some members, but that's better than a
free ride. At least they will be doing something. Every group has its core
-- often small --of strong, willing workers, and you just have to accept
that that's the way it is.
As for your show, I'd hate the idea that some members might not be
permitted to participate. A show or sale is one of those events that draws
members together after weeks or months of stress and long working hours. It
can create an abundance of good will. I think that you will start creating
rifts when you leave people out. You are all in your guild together -- a
coop of sorts, I assume -- and limiting your members' participation in
sales sounds like a real good scenario for creating a lot of tension, not
to mention hurt and resentment.
How about looking around for another venue. Now some will whine and say ,
"but we always have it there", etc. etc., but change can be refreshing and
not nearly as troublesome as they anticipate. You have to be on top of
things and publicize the changed location well, but it's not such a big
deal. Along with a new location, you could think about new ways to display
things, and do something fresh and different.
If you absolutely must stay in your old location, then limit the number of
pots people can bring. But, I think that that's the least favorable
solution.
-----Gail
>I'd love your thoughts on a problem that's recently arisen in our guild.
>For some years, we've been doing shows in a particular location that can
>accommodate approximately 20 potters. Our shows aren't juried, and until
>very recently, there was room for any potter who wanted to participate.
>The shows have now become quite popular, and the guild has grown - so we
>now have more potters than room for them. We are starting to have
>discussions about how to determine who can be in the show. Certainly one
>possibility is to draw lots. This, however, could result in people who
>join the guild solely to participate in the show - they don't come to
>meetings or contribute in any other way- getting in and long time guild
>members and show supporters being frozen out.
>Has anyone dealt with this kind of issue? Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>Judy Musicant
>
>I'd love your thoughts on a problem that's recently arisen in our guild.
>For some years, we've been doing shows in a particular location that can
>accommodate approximately 20 potters. Our shows aren't juried, and until
>very recently, there was room for any potter who wanted to participate.
>The shows have now become quite popular, and the guild has grown - so we
>now have more potters than room for them. We are starting to have
>discussions about how to determine who can be in the show. Certainly one
>possibility is to draw lots. This, however, could result in people who
>join the guild solely to participate in the show - they don't come to
>meetings or contribute in any other way- getting in and long time guild
>members and show supporters being frozen out.
>Has anyone dealt with this kind of issue? Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>Judy Musicant
Gail Dapogny on wed 4 dec 02
Judy,
Sounds like you need to have some requirements in your guild, such as
meeting attendance, x amount of work on the kilns, x amount of cleanup
work, x amount of miscellaneous work, etc. Consider a point system in which
you assign points to tasks. In our guild, our work points have to at least
match the cubic inches that we fire (glaze). We all have to do a certain
amount of cleanup (we assign 3 people each weekend to thoroughly clean the
building), a certain amount of clay-making, kiln-related work that doesn't
have to include firing if the person is nervous about it; it could be
shelf-chipping for example, or applying kiln wash; or unbricking a kiln
after firing. Plus lots of other jobs that come up all the time. We can't
be at all behind in points or in clay-making just before a sale. You will
still get only minimum work from some members, but that's better than a
free ride. At least they will be doing something. Every group has its core
-- often small --of strong, willing workers, and you just have to accept
that that's the way it is.
As for your show, I'd hate the idea that some members might not be
permitted to participate. A show or sale is one of those events that draws
members together after weeks or months of stress and long working hours. It
can create an abundance of good will. I think that you will start creating
rifts when you leave people out. You are all in your guild together -- a
coop of sorts, I assume -- and limiting your members' participation in
sales sounds like a real good scenario for creating a lot of tension, not
to mention hurt and resentment.
How about looking around for another venue. Now some will whine and say ,
"but we always have it there", etc. etc., but change can be refreshing and
not nearly as troublesome as they anticipate. You have to be on top of
things and publicize the changed location well, but it's not such a big
deal. Along with a new location, you could think about new ways to display
things, and do something fresh and different.
If you absolutely must stay in your old location, then limit the number of
pots people can bring. But, I think that that's the least favorable
solution.
-----Gail
>I'd love your thoughts on a problem that's recently arisen in our guild.
>For some years, we've been doing shows in a particular location that can
>accommodate approximately 20 potters. Our shows aren't juried, and until
>very recently, there was room for any potter who wanted to participate.
>The shows have now become quite popular, and the guild has grown - so we
>now have more potters than room for them. We are starting to have
>discussions about how to determine who can be in the show. Certainly one
>possibility is to draw lots. This, however, could result in people who
>join the guild solely to participate in the show - they don't come to
>meetings or contribute in any other way- getting in and long time guild
>members and show supporters being frozen out.
>Has anyone dealt with this kind of issue? Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>Judy Musicant
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
lela martens on wed 4 dec 02
Yes, our guild has some prolific potters. We have a limit of how many pieces
each potter can display at any one time. Lela
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Judith S. Labovitz on wed 4 dec 02
Judy
Our local Potters' Guild doesn;t allow anyone BUT our active members to
participate in our sale, with the exception of advanced students, who are
limited to 8 pots juried by their class assistant (a Guild member)...We
currently have 30 active members. Our fall sale ( Nov 14 - Nov
16) grossed almost $80,000.
Judy L in COLD (-18) central Michigan
At 08:37 PM 12/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I'd love your thoughts on a problem that's recently arisen in our
>guild. For some years, we've been doing shows in a particular location
>that can accommodate approximately 20 potters. Our shows aren't juried,
>and until very recently, there was room for any potter who wanted to
>participate. The shows have now become quite popular, and the guild has
>grown - so we now have more potters than room for them. We are starting
>to have discussions about how to determine who can be in the
>show. Certainly one possibility is to draw lots. This, however, could
>result in people who join the guild solely to participate in the show -
>they don't come to meetings or contribute in any other way- getting in and
>long time guild members and show supporters being frozen out.
>Has anyone dealt with this kind of issue? Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>Judy Musicant
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Christena Schafale on wed 4 dec 02
Judy,
How do you define "active" members? Our guild has this same problem.
Chris
>Our local Potters' Guild doesn;t allow anyone BUT our active members to
>participate in our sale, with the exception of advanced students, who are
>limited to 8 pots juried by their class assistant (a Guild member)...We
>currently have 30 active members. Our fall sale ( Nov 14 - Nov
>16) grossed almost $80,000.
>
>
>Judy L in COLD (-18) central Michigan
Light One Candle Pottery
209 N Woodrow St
Fuquay-Varina, NC 27526
(919) 567-1098
candle@intrex.net
www.lightonecandle.com
Gail Dapogny on wed 4 dec 02
Judy,
Another thought I had with regard to your guild and its show is this: Do
you have even a small or medium-sized parking lot outside? We do, and we
rent a tent for our sales.
Inside the tent during the December show, we have many strings of white
lights with reflectors behind them running across the ceiling in various
directions, a big Christmas tree which is decorated with lights and
ornaments hand-crafted by members, plus a table along side with more
ornaments (all are for sale, of course), and we have display space
(plywood flats with shelving and various-sized cubes on top) divided among
the participants (sometimes as many as 40 or more.) Believe me, this is
not a huge space. Oh, and of course, being in Michigan already with snow on
the ground, we have heaters with blowers placed at a couple of crucial
places (we surround them with chicken wire to keep people from blundering
into them.
All of our cashiering is done inside the building. Members take turns
floor-walking and greeting in the tent during the two-day event, as well as
working inside. We provide free customer coffee as well.
All of this sounds like a lot of work, but -- another requirement -- in
order to participate in the sale, one has to put in a certain amount of
set-up and take-down work, plus hours at the sale itself. It gets done
remarkably efficiently.
-----Gail Dapogny in snowy Ann Arbor, Michigan
>I'd love your thoughts on a problem that's recently arisen in our guild.
>For some years, we've been doing shows in a particular location that can
>accommodate approximately 20 potters. Our shows aren't juried, and until
>very recently, there was room for any potter who wanted to participate.
>The shows have now become quite popular, and the guild has grown - so we
>now have more potters than room for them.
KLeSueur@AOL.COM on wed 4 dec 02
<>
This is a common problem. A group of people organize and start a show. They put in the time to build it up weathering the years when sales weren't all that good but hoping they would get better. The show and sales grow and suddenly there are all of these other people who want to do the show. They want it opened up, juried. They want in because they are "better" than others who've been doing the show for years. They think it's their "turn".
My answer: Those who built the show get to continue to do the show as long as they want. They earned it. For the rest, first to join the organization, first into the show when there is an opening. Jurying is just a matter of personal opinion. Doesn't really serve the public. When the public no longer wants the work of an exhibitor his/her sales will decline he/she will quit the show.
Kathi
Judith S. Labovitz on wed 4 dec 02
Chris...the "short" answer is a member whose dues are current, who
participates regularly in guild activities by "working" (at guild tasks
such as stacking, committee work etc) a minimum of 5 hours a month and who
participates at the sale by entering a minimum of 50 pots and working at
the sale about 8-10 hours.
Members who do not or cannot fully participate as an active member usually
self-identify and change their category of membership
We do have exceptions...illnesses, sabbaticals, family problems...but by
and large members very willingly support the sale. It is a major source of
income for the guild, and potters benefit financially as the guild
commission is only 20%.
we have a variety of other 'member'
categories (limited, inactive, special ) but for the most part it is
our 'active' members who participate at our 2 sales.
We have been renting the social hall of a local church for decades; we too
could probably use more space on opening night, but it works....we have
access to the lobby, where our cashiers and wrappers are stationed, and
the kitchen where we set up a mini-office to organize the sales
receipts, checks, credit card stuff and so on.
I think I'm telling you more than you wanted to know!!!
judy L greater lansing (Mich) potters' guild
At 08:36 AM 12/4/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Judy,
>
>How do you define "active" members? Our guild has this same problem.
>
>Chris
>Light One Candle Pottery
>209 N Woodrow St
>Fuquay-Varina, NC 27526
>(919) 567-1098
>candle@intrex.net
>www.lightonecandle.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Cat Jarosz on wed 4 dec 02
In a message dated 12/4/2002 1:37:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
KLeSueur@AOL.COM writes:
> Those who built the show get to continue to do the show as long as they
> want. They earned it. For the rest, first to join the organization, first
> into the show when there is an opening. Jurying is just a matter of
> personal opinion. Doesn't really serve the public. When the public no
> longer wants the work of an exhibitor his/her sales will decline he/she
> will quit the show.
>
>
The Appalachian Potters Market in Marion NC which is held the first
saturday in DEC and has been going on for about 15 maybe more yrs now has
grown from what was small time to pretty darn good and well attended show
... How they deal with the amount of folks wanting in is send the
application notice to the old timers that were there at the beginning first
and its a first come first served basis for the 60 spots available....
a week later the folks that are not old timers and have requested to
be on the mailing list to get into the show are sent applications and again
first come first served....
Potters that are from Marion or the county that Marion is located are
given preferential treatment but they must get their applications in
fast...
Moral of the story is if you snooze you lose.... I am an old timer
I think I only missed 2 shows in all the yrs its been held and one was
because I waited to send in my application form... yeah made the deadline
but didnt realize that the folks that send theirs ahead of me got in
first..
Even as an old timer as soon as I get that application I write a check
and fill it out and have even gone as far as bringing it to PO and having
them stamp it that same day !!!
Maybe being an old timer at this show and being confident that I will get
in every yr as long as I do the above faithfully helps me think its a fair
system . Maybe I wouldnt feel that way if I was a newbie wanting in on a
good thing.. ps this show is well attended but they also send us post
cards to send out to customers and because its always the first saturday in
dec every yr they have business cards they send you also to pass out at your
other shows ... I pass out tons of those and send out lots of post cards
too... it takes all of us working hard at this to make it a successful
show. I've done as little as 500 and as much as 3500 at this 6 hr
show in a high school cafeteria and I bust my chops every time..
What I would like to add to this is there are a few shows that I cant
get in on because of the size restrictions of the show and membership is hard
to come by... Heck I cant even get anyone to send me imfo on how to become a
member ( Carolina Crafters ??) Raleigh NC I have wanted into that guild
for yrs now and there is just no room for newbies ...
Moral?? Ya wins some ya loses some. Gotta take chances on green shows
every now and again so you can be a long timer that helps the show grow.
We all gotta work at making shows good by advertising and sending out post
cards and getting the word out. In these hard times with all the
uncertainty its more important than its ever been. And like Kathie said
the old timers will drop out of the show if it dries up for them. All shows
will dry up if We dont advertise.
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