mel jacobson on fri 6 dec 02
i think searching for clients is the answer.
i will give you some of kevin and amy caufields schemes.
their gross is very high.
he makes a lot of pots.
they do the big fairs, uptown, renaissance. (local only.)
they have home sales. open their studio for
sales for the month before christmas. stop anytime that month.
they have rented their studio to corporations for
dinner parties. (very cool, dinner in a pottery.)
they make the dishes for the party, the guests take
them home. the corporation pays for them. rental and sales in one.
kevin has had `sets of dishes shows`. he sets out 10 samples
of dishes, has place settings set with table clothes, flowers etc.
he takes orders. then sells the samples.
he sells his pots to high end grocery stores. sets of dishes, big
mugs, sushi plates. wholesale. they buy them.
he has sold fountains in catalogs. thousands of them.
they have what is called `creative merchandising`. now, when
you get the orders, or the sales, you have to be ready to make
the pots...right now. kevin gets after commission work.
it helps to live in a big metro area. he was worried about leaving the
inner city. he now lives north of stillwater, among about 15 other
potters. about 20 miles from st. paul. his sales have INCREASED.
folks love to drive to his studio....walk around, see the kiln...talk.
so much about being a potter is sales...merchandising...business.
education. it adds a layer of work, but without it, no sales.
PRICE RIGHT. FIND A BALANCE.
i see people at craft fairs, reading. they do not look at, or talk
to customers. they do not engage people. can't sell pots that
way. kevin and amy are very attractive people, they use it.
at the renaissance fair they are out in the walk path... engaging
people. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY SELL.
it is a tough thing selling. you have to want to do it.
it does not come to you very often. it is work.
mel
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Joan Slack on thu 12 jun 08
HI Tony,
Do you have any good tips or sites for selling on-line? I have been in
Wholesale Craft.com 2 years, and am looking for the best sites to sell
pottery. My own website does not seem to draw people cold...they go there
more if they have seen me or my work or have a connection somehow.
Thanks,
Joan
mel jacobson on mon 10 jan 11
so much has to do with your own personality.
some folks just hate the sales part of craft..what they
prefer is being alone in their studio. so be it.
i love selling...it is one of my favorite parts of
the craft...the knowing that someone real has my
work.
and, as i have said many times...i hate paying someone
50 percent of my worth to sell my pots and paintings.
i pay me. i get it all.
interesting side bar...i hate my pots sitting in museums
or art centers. just sitting there...not being used.
i have never made work to be on a shelf in a gallery space.
they are made to hold soup, tea, a full meal.
flowers.
but those of you that know me, through the clayart room
or other places, know i am open and excited about
interesting people. i feel the same way about those
coming to my home/studio to buy pots. it is a service
to sell good work. you extend the craft...it is your `job`.
i am always amazed when i go to street shows, craft shows,
and the seller does not look up from a book. i would like
to say to them...`hey dork, look up, you have a professional
experienced old time potter looking at your work...would you
like a comment, or you make one???? no, they just vegetate.
i could kick them off their chair...god all mighty, engage the
customer. smile, be alive, don't read a book.
and no wonder folks just walk on past. then the same artist
pisses and moans that the world does not appreciate their work.
thinks the public is stupid. sorry...not at all the case.
being engaging, polite and making people welcome to your work
is not a `sell out`...it is the way of a polite society.
i want people to love my studio, and want to come and engage me
in civil conversation. i never talk politics or controversial ideas, i tal=
k
about craft, having hand made things in your home you can be proud
of. (i saw a gal at an art fair a few years ago that had hateful bumper
stickers in her booth...loon stuff. no one walked into buy art from her.
why would anyone do that.???? stupid as a brick...as was her political
ideas. (of course, i am convinced that the biggest loons in the world
are those that stick slogans all over their car. walking
billboards for stupidity. they want to advertise that they have it
right, and you have it wrong...they think they have value.)
i feel some days that i am a `preacher` of craft. i have a mission
to keep art and craft alive in this society. if we do not, we will fad
fast into the cyber, blackberry, ipad world. people are spending
millions of dollars to have `walk around` value. i try to sneak in a
thought now and then that other things in life have value...like art
and hand made things. i don't have bumper stickers, but i try and
make my life an example to many that want my work. it has lasting
value. i have about 800 people on my current mailing list that i know
`gets it`. i engage them. without them, i am alone in my studio
and the work piles up.
mel
the couple that bought the huge set of dishes had sharlene and me
over for dinner saturday night, and used the dishes for the first
time formally.
very nice. now that is value. (and they commissioned a painting
from me...and that is really a nice bonus.)
from: minnetonka, mn
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
alternate: melpots7575@gmail.com
Lee on mon 10 jan 11
There is a famous expression in Japan that I like and try to live by:
=3DE3=3D81=3D8A=3DE5=3DAE=3DA2=3DE6=3DA7=3D98=3DE3=3D81=3DAF=3DE7=
=3DA5=3D9E=3DE6=3DA7=3D98=3DE3=3D81=3DA7=3D
=3DE3=3D81=3D99=3DE3=3D80=3D82
(okyakusama wa kamisama desu.) =3D3D The customer/guest is God.
I am there to serve the guest, not sell. And I approach as an "open
book" educator and specialist in what I do. Folks don't just buy
objects from me, but I also myknowledge is freely available to them.
It is good to be friendly, attentive and available, but not
looming or pushy.
--
=3DC2=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DC2=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DC3=3DB3g ar chul an tI=3DE2=3D80=3D94tIr dlainn t=
rina ch=3DC3=3DA9i=3D
le"=3DE2=3D80=3D94that is, "The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
steve graber on mon 10 jan 11
i have always been stunned at the people who like pots.=3DA0 people who tak=
e =3D
=3D0Apottery=3DA0clases, buy pots, touch pots.=3DA0 my old adult education =
potter=3D
y classes =3D0Ahad a brain sugeon, sex ed teacher, former broadway star, US=
C =3D
CHEERLEADER, mad =3D0Ascientist.=3DA0 etc.=3DA0 what a wild gang!=3D0A=3D0A=
further, w=3D
hen i had a backyard pot party i was eating a burger under a tree with =3D0=
Aa=3D
customer who was hanging around in my backyard for some 4 hours with his =
=3D
=3D0Awife.=3DA0 i asked what he does?=3DA0 "I'm the program manager for the=
missi=3D
on to =3D0Apluto".=3DA0 ...wow!=3DA0 made me wonder who ELSE was in my back=
yard?=3D
=3DA0 (got the flight =3D0Aplan at the time too).=3DA0 one had a son who cl=
imbed =3D
mount everest.=3DA0 it never =3D0Aends.=3DA0 people do so many fun things a=
nd jus=3D
t like the movie "close encounters of =3D0Athe 3rd kind" clay seems to draw=
t=3D
hem together=3D0A=3D0A=3DA0Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=3D0AClaremon=
t, Calif=3D
ornia USA=3D0AThe Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots! =3D0Awww.graber=
spot=3D
tery.com steve@graberspottery.com =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AOn Laguna Clay's website=
=3D0Ahttp:=3D
//www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/ =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A______________________=
__________=3D
=3D0AFrom: mel jacobson =3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.OR=
G=3D0A=3D
Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 5:16:18 AM=3D0ASubject: selling pots=3D0A=3D0Ab=
ut tho=3D
se of you that know me, through the clayart room=3D0Aor other places, know =
i =3D
am open and excited about=3D0Ainteresting people.=3DA0 i feel the same way =
abou=3D
t those=3D0Acoming to my home/studio to buy pots.=3DA0 it is a service=3D0A=
to sel=3D
l good work.=3DA0 you extend the craft...it is your `job`.=3D0A=3D0Ai am al=
ways a=3D
mazed when i go to street shows, craft shows,=3D0Aand the seller does not l=
oo=3D
k up from a book.=3DA0 i would like=3D0Ato say to them...`hey dork, look up=
, yo=3D
u have a professional=3D0Aexperienced old time potter looking at your work.=
..=3D
would you=3D0Alike a comment, or you make one???? no, they just vegetate.=
=3D0Ai=3D
could kick them off their chair...god all mighty, engage the=3D0Acustomer.=
=3D
=3DA0 smile, be alive, don't read a book.=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
David Beumee on tue 11 jan 11
It's always been an excellent reminder of where the emphasis should be to
witness Mel's stories and comments.
I too sell from my studio to avoid giving anyone else half off the top. I
built the studio to give it enough space for a showroom, then started a
studio tour in my area to bring in customers. Since customers are coming
into my studio during our Tour, It makes communicating with them so much
easier and more fun for me because it's my studio and I have all sorts of
things to show and talk about. I appreciate the advice about not talking
about controversial subjects, and steering the conversation toward art and
craft, keeping it light. I applaud you Mel for being a preacher for the
handmade, and using your life experience as the best example. No doubt it i=
s
a huge part of the reason why your mailing list is filled with people who
"get it" about the value of the handmade. Mingei soda potters must also
remember where they live, and why they are so fortunate to live where they
do. Acculturation and education over time inform many who otherwise would
never consider the value of the handmade. Not all parts of the country are
so fortunate.
David Beumee
Porcelain by David Beumee
Lafayette, CO
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 6:16 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
> so much has to do with your own personality.
> some folks just hate the sales part of craft..what they
> prefer is being alone in their studio. so be it.
>
> i love selling...it is one of my favorite parts of
> the craft...the knowing that someone real has my
> work.
>
> and, as i have said many times...i hate paying someone
> 50 percent of my worth to sell my pots and paintings.
> i pay me. i get it all.
>
> interesting side bar...i hate my pots sitting in museums
> or art centers. just sitting there...not being used.
> i have never made work to be on a shelf in a gallery space.
> they are made to hold soup, tea, a full meal.
> flowers.
>
> but those of you that know me, through the clayart room
> or other places, know i am open and excited about
> interesting people. i feel the same way about those
> coming to my home/studio to buy pots. it is a service
> to sell good work. you extend the craft...it is your `job`.
>
> i am always amazed when i go to street shows, craft shows,
> and the seller does not look up from a book. i would like
> to say to them...`hey dork, look up, you have a professional
> experienced old time potter looking at your work...would you
> like a comment, or you make one???? no, they just vegetate.
> i could kick them off their chair...god all mighty, engage the
> customer. smile, be alive, don't read a book.
>
> and no wonder folks just walk on past. then the same artist
> pisses and moans that the world does not appreciate their work.
> thinks the public is stupid. sorry...not at all the case.
>
> being engaging, polite and making people welcome to your work
> is not a `sell out`...it is the way of a polite society.
> i want people to love my studio, and want to come and engage me
> in civil conversation. i never talk politics or controversial ideas, i
> talk
> about craft, having hand made things in your home you can be proud
> of. (i saw a gal at an art fair a few years ago that had hateful bumper
> stickers in her booth...loon stuff. no one walked into buy art from her.
> why would anyone do that.???? stupid as a brick...as was her political
> ideas. (of course, i am convinced that the biggest loons in the world
> are those that stick slogans all over their car. walking
> billboards for stupidity. they want to advertise that they have it
> right, and you have it wrong...they think they have value.)
>
> i feel some days that i am a `preacher` of craft. i have a mission
> to keep art and craft alive in this society. if we do not, we will fad
> fast into the cyber, blackberry, ipad world. people are spending
> millions of dollars to have `walk around` value. i try to sneak in a
> thought now and then that other things in life have value...like art
> and hand made things. i don't have bumper stickers, but i try and
> make my life an example to many that want my work. it has lasting
> value. i have about 800 people on my current mailing list that i know
> `gets it`. i engage them. without them, i am alone in my studio
> and the work piles up.
> mel
> the couple that bought the huge set of dishes had sharlene and me
> over for dinner saturday night, and used the dishes for the first
> time formally.
> very nice. now that is value. (and they commissioned a painting
> from me...and that is really a nice bonus.)
>
>
> from: minnetonka, mn
> website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
> clayart link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html.com/%7Emelpots/clayart.html>
> new book: http://www.21stcenturykilns.com
> alternate: melpots7575@gmail.com
>
Vicki Hardin on tue 11 jan 11
Every year during open house, I make two huge batches of peanut brittle and
offer it to my visitors in the studio. It sort of breaks the ice and people
seem to really appreciate it. What's interesting this year is that I didn't
make the time to make the peanut brittle and settled with putting out a bow=
l
of Hershey's kisses thinking they would get the same response. I was way
wrong. People didn't seem to have the same appreciation. It might just be
the economy, or it could be my imagination, but not making the candy seemed
to have an effect on my bottom line! I plan on making it next year.
Vicki Hardin
http://ClayArtWebGuide.com
Fred Parker on wed 12 jan 11
Unfortunately, I don't (yet) have a studio suitable for public access. I=
=3D
'm
working on it, and within a year I hope to have that problem solved. Als=
=3D
o,
I just hate going to street fairs. I've tried it. I hate it. It isn't =
=3D
my
"thing."
SO, I sell online and through shops and galleries. It has worked fairly
well for me so far, and has grown steadily since I began three or four ye=
=3D
ars
ago. Most of my shops are at 30%, a fair number in my mind. One is at 4=
=3D
0%
but I have to confess I don't service that one very well. Sometimes, the=
=3D
shops have open houses and they ask me to be there to meet customers. Al=
=3D
so,
I make it a point to correspond with my internet customers who purchase m=
=3D
ost
anything.
I have to agree that some kind of conversational interaction between pott=
=3D
er
and buyer is magic! I don't believe most buyers are looking for a
particular piece of pottery, per se. Most people want a story. They wan=
=3D
t
to know that their plate, bowl, mug or whatever came into being for some
kind of interesting, intimate reason. They love to hear stories about ho=
=3D
w
glazes turned out the way they did because something went wrong or turned=
=3D
out different than expected. They like to know why I put an unusual hand=
=3D
le
on a tea mug, or something about the clay I used.
The reason these are important to buyers is that buyers like to own thing=
=3D
s
that are unique, that have their own personal stories -- like them -- and=
=3D
that actually have an ancestry. They love to hear why I am so infatuated=
=3D
with curved surfaces or whatever it was in my own history that somehow
expresses itself in my pottery. This is called "added value" in the
marketing world and it is a VERY BIG DEAL!
I believe a big reason for this is the way an object can become an
interesting story to tell. People love to show off their possessions --
those they are proud to own -- to friends and family. They like having
something to say about their tea bowl or the bowl containing the collard
greens they just passed around the table. It makes for conversation, and=
=3D
that conversation leads to other "good" conversation -- not the usual dri=
=3D
vel
that would accompany a slave-made bowl from China via Pottery Barn. Anot=
=3D
her
way of saying it is, they like to have something that has a life of its o=
=3D
wn
-- something with a spirit and a soul and a personality. You can't get t=
=3D
hat
at Bed, Bath and Beyond or WalMart, and it has tangible value. They are
willing to pay for it.
But if the potter never converses with customers none of this can happen.=
=3D
=3D20
His bowl is just another piece of overpriced pottery made by some old
stoned-out hippie dropout without a "real job" who is desperately trying =
=3D
to
revisit his youth.
And one more thing: Mel is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT on the slogans and political
thing. Best to leave all that out of the process. First, most people do=
=3D
n't
want to hear about it. Second, it is almost a guarantee to eliminate at
least half of your potential customers. Third, in spite of what you migh=
=3D
t
believe, it does NOT make you appear smart, superior and "with it."=3D20
Conversely, it shows you really do not "get it" at all and probably are n=
=3D
ot
all that smart to begin with -- not good draws for customers. Leave it a=
=3D
t home.
Fred Parker
Lee on wed 12 jan 11
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Fred Parker wrote:
> And one more thing: Mel is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT on the slogans and political
> thing.
Fred, it depends on how tolerant the place you live in is. And also
what brought you to ceramics in the first place. If you come to
pots as a fail painter, you might have one perspective, but if you
came to pottery like many people did in the '60s and '70s, you came
for political/spiritual reasons, such as "Small is Beautiful", ecology
and the simplicity movement.
Shop Class As Soul Craft, home gardening, slow life movement, farmers
market and other related social phenomenon are pointing to a similar
resurgence.
The main issue is to pay attention to the customers you are
cratering to. And of course, it depends on how tolerant the place is
where you live.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Randall Moody on wed 12 jan 11
I don't think that I could disagree with Lee more. Tolerance in most
places known for "being tolerant" is only if you are preaching to the
crowd. Try selling NRA bumper stickers at an art fair in Berkely.
Mel is correct. Keep the politics and intellectually inept bumper
sticker philosophy to your self and you will expand your sales
base.Why offend a large segment of your audience?
--=3D20
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Lee wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Fred Parker wrote:
>
>> And one more thing: Mel is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT on the slogans and political
>> thing.
>
> Fred, it depends on how tolerant the place you live in is. =3DA0 =3DA0And=
als=3D
o
> what brought you to ceramics in the first place. =3DA0 =3DA0If you come t=
o
> pots as a fail painter, you might have one perspective, but if you
> came to pottery like many people did in the '60s and '70s, you came
> for political/spiritual reasons, such as "Small is Beautiful", ecology
> and the simplicity movement.
>
> Shop Class As Soul Craft, home gardening, slow life movement, farmers
> market and other related social phenomenon are pointing to a similar
> resurgence.
>
> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 The main issue is to pay attention to the custome=
rs you a=3D
re
> cratering to. =3DA0And of course, it depends on how tolerant the place is
> where you live.
>
> --
> =3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> =3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=
=3D97that is=3D
, "The
> land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
> within itself." -- John O'Donohue
>
Wendy Peck on wed 12 jan 11
Mel said: i want people to love my studio, and want to come and engage me
in civil conversation. i never talk politics or controversial ideas ...
From a customer experience, I can illustrate the cost of imposing values on
sales ... and the art.
On a trip to a (deliberately not named) pottery heartland, I ran into a
seller who was perfect on all counts the pros have brought up here. Engaged
me on entry to the shop, left me alone when I needed to look, engaged again=
.
I left with far more than I intended to buy. Love the work, but the
atmosphere was also ripe to explore more and fall in love with more.
One of the pieces I bought was costly, and a totally impulsive decision. I
saw the inscription on the bottom of the pot, but did not "absorb" it till
later. That inscription bears a religious notation. That inscription has
irritated, then angered and offended me to the point that the piece is now
in the basement, and I suspect in the spring clean, will hit the garbage.
When I look at that pot, I see only that I paid for the imposition of an
univited personal value into my life.
I will defend the right of the artists to scratch whatever the heck they
want in the bottom of a pot. However, I will never visit this artist again.
Plus, the actual art paid a price for the artist's indulgence. Even though =
I
am of the same faith, this person stepped right into one of my pet peeves
with religion -- and God knows, religion is a well known, hot-button issue
in any human interaction.
Wendy
Fred Parker on wed 12 jan 11
Lee:
It has nothing whatsoever to do with how "tolerant the place you live in
is." I'm not talking about what the potter thinks about his/her own
politics and attitudes. I'm talking about how much the public doesn't wa=
=3D
nt
to hear it. Granted, if the majority of your marketplace is a bunch of o=
=3D
ld
hippy potters following their "political/spiritual" motivators around in =
=3D
an
old VW bus with vinyl daisies stuck all over it, then maybe they will be
drawn to bumper stickers and slogans calling for free love and doing what=
=3D
feels good. However, if you want to sell to a cross-section of the Ameri=
=3D
can
Public you will be well served to leave all of that baggage at home.
Fred Parker
"Ta-ni orifice nostrum ha-urinato. Um speculus 'ghuh O'DO-DO" which is to=
=3D
say, "It really isn't that hard to understand if one's head is clear..."
On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 10:39:46 -0600, Lee wrote:
>On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Fred Parker wrote:=
=3D
>
>> And one more thing: Mel is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT on the slogans and politic=
=3D
al
>> thing.
>
>Fred, it depends on how tolerant the place you live in is. And also
>what brought you to ceramics in the first place. If you come to
>pots as a fail painter, you might have one perspective, but if you
>came to pottery like many people did in the '60s and '70s, you came
>for political/spiritual reasons, such as "Small is Beautiful", ecology
>and the simplicity movement.
SNIP
Lee on thu 13 jan 11
Fred.
I don't think we need to demand that everybody make the pots
we do. We would be cutting out a lot of good pots.
While gratuitous politicking is not advised, if peoples' work
is inspired by social, political or spiritual inspirations, they are
doing their audience a disservice by not explaining themselves.
This year, my focus is on Empty Bowls, Potters For Peace
and cremation urns. These all have more subtle meaning than a coffee
cup. Certainly, people have the right to make simple mugs for their
neighbors, but it doesn't mean we have to reduce all work to this.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Snail Scott on thu 13 jan 11
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Fred Parker wrote:
>> And one more thing: Mel is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT on the slogans and political
>> thing...
You will quite possibly alienate a potential buyer
who disagrees with your politics. Furthermore,
showing that you are in political accord with a
potential buyer isn't going to make them like your
stuff better. If they weren't likely to buy it before,
they probably aren't going to change their mind
just because you share their causes. They may
stop and chat and talk politics, but is that what
you want from an art fair? Unless you consider
the main purpose of the fair to be proselytization,
(or preaching to the choir), not sales, it seems
like a bad idea.
If your work is innately political, then go ahead.
It may serve as a quick statement that's more
visible from a distance than the content of the work
itself, and attract the interested buyers better than
waiting for them to figure it out on closer scrutiny.
Beware of looking cheap, though, unless your
work is cheap, too.
-Snail
Fred Parker on fri 14 jan 11
Lee:
Nor do I. Sorry, but I don't see the connection here. Displaying one's
political/religious orientation in a sales environment -- at least to my
mind -- doesn't relate to the kinds of pots one makes...
Fred Parker
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 00:31:39 -0600, Lee wrote:
>Fred.
>
> I don't think we need to demand that everybody make the pots
>we do. We would be cutting out a lot of good pots.
>
> While gratuitous politicking is not advised, if peoples' work
>is inspired by social, political or spiritual inspirations, they are
>doing their audience a disservice by not explaining themselves.
>
Lee on fri 14 jan 11
Interesting article. Will Singleton's "Slow Art."
http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/337127
Singleton decided to go to Japan after graduating because his father,
a professor in education and anthropology at the University of
Pittsburgh, was overseeing an exchange program. The family had lived
in Japan for a time when Singleton was young and he decided it would
be interesting to return.
"I was only going to be there a couple months and I ended up there for
six years," he recalls with a laugh.
One of his teachers, Tappo Narui of Mashiko, instilled in Singleton
the idea of slowing down, not overwhelming the clay or the wheel.
He would, Singleton recalls, blurt out the term "yukkuri, tanoshiku,"
which means "slow down, enjoy it."
"He did his best to get people to pay attention to what they were
doing every minute of the day," Singleton explains. "He encouraged
people to put one foot in front of the other in a conscious way, to
enjoy the possibility of what life brought to you."
When he returned from Japan, Singleton moved to family property in
Berks County and began to live his life more consciously, more aware
of the natural world around him.
Read more: http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/337127#ixzz1B1sn6t6P
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on fri 14 jan 11
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Snail Scott w=
=3D
rote:
> you =3DA0want from an art fair? Unless you consider
> the main purpose of the fair to be proselytization,
> (or preaching to the choir), not sales, it seems
> like a bad idea.
Not proselytizing is the key. Your attitude is the key.
But if someone asks you about your work, it is best not to lie. Good
to remember "the guest is always right", it will take you a long way.
Sensitivity to your audience is important. You might have to make
your self black and whit rules, if you can't read situations or of
that bent, but most adult people can read situations. And certainly,
the venue is important. You know if you are at the farmers market or
at a Green Fair, that folks will be open minded about those topics.
> If your work is innately political, then go ahead.
> It may serve as a quick statement that's more
> visible from a distance than the content of the work
> itself, and attract the interested buyers better than
> waiting for them to figure it out on closer scrutiny.
There are different levels of meaning in work. Refusing
to speak, wether we know it or not, is political. Adult discussion
being silenced by authoritarians is a big factor in where we find out
selves in our democracy today.
>unless you consider
>the main purpose of the fair to be proselytization,
>(or preaching to the choir), not sales, it seems
>like a bad idea.
Again, proselytizing is the key even of your work. If you
are only there to sale, that will come through. If you talk to
folks, especially in these hard times, not all people go to Art Fairs
for the money they will make there. One reason is out of obligation
to your old customers. I would do the 12 day festival in Mashiko for
this reason, but also as a chance to see potter friends who were
always busy, and the fair was the only place you could catch them
sitting down.
Another reason beyond the immediate sales is to network and
expand your mailing list. After 8 years in Japan, I thought doing
Art At St. Kate's would be a way to build up my mailing list. I sell
good, but sales weren't my initial motivation.
Folks new to doing fairs need to know the reality of them.
> Beware of looking cheap, though, unless your
> work is cheap, too.
A good salesman can sell sand to a Nomad. But
there are many ways to look cheap.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on fri 14 jan 11
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 6:22 AM, Fred Parker wrote:
> Lee:
>
>- at least to my mind -- =3DA0doesn't relate to the kinds of pots one make=
s.=3D
..
That's the key Fred. We all make pots for different
reasons. It doesn't matter what your beliefs are, if you wear them
on your sleeve, it is liable to put some folks off. It is important
to know why you make your work. As I have sad before, if you are at
all serious about craft and want to preserve it, you have to be an
educator too.
Hey, check this out. My friend Euan wrote an article on
Mingei at this blog. Folks around here are ready to learn about
these things. (Warren MacKenzie laid the groundwork) An excerpt
from the article at the bottom of this post:
http://euancraig.blogspot.com/2009/05/mingei.html
Some of William Morris's reasons for craft (even if you don't
believe, it is good to understand what revived craft in the industrial
age.)
http://www.morrissociety.org/socialthoughtJWMS.html
"Mingei is a word which was invented by Yanagi Soetsu in 1926. It is a
contraction of the phrase "minshuteki kogei" , which has been, I
believe, unfairly translated as "folk craft". In fact "Minshuteki"
means "Democratic", and I would translate "Kogei" as "Art", though it
is labelled "Craft" by many, and the definition of "Art" is so blurry
as to be almost meaningless; the "Craft vs Art" argument doubly so.
Art embraces such a plethora of meanings that everything from War to
Palmistry is considered "The Art Of....". There is a huge difference
in the implications of "Democratic Art" as opposed to "Folk Craft",
wouldn't you agree?"
http://euancraig.blogspot.com/2009/05/mingei.html
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Eleanor on fri 14 jan 11
Snail said:
> You will quite possibly alienate a potential buyer
> who disagrees with your politics.
Amen to that!
I sell my pots at two pre-Christmas fairs. They play Christmas carols
all day at one of them. I love carols--they are beautiful music.
My customers are buying Christmas presents or pottery they may find
decorative or useful for themselves. "I collect pitchers.", "Is this
mug big enough for Uncle Charlie's big hands?", "Will that planter
match Aunt Millie's sofa?", "Did you make all this yourself? (!)",
"I need a little thing for a Christmas grab-bag............" We
discuss all these things. We have a good time and maybe a few learn
something.
iPhoto on my Mac has a program for making booklets of photos. Sixteen
dollars will buy an 8x6" spiral booklet with 16 or more (extra $$ for
more) photos. I made such a booklet showing me making a mug from lump
of clay to me drinking tea. My husband took some of the pics. The
pictures are close-ups of the process. I chose not to use captions.
There was limited interest: it was ignored; some glanced at a few of
the pics; some went through each page and asked questions. A
worthwhile investment, I think.
My pots don't reflect my ethnicity or my politics. But I'm aware that
some potters' beliefs and opinions are expressed in their work and
that there is an appreciative audience for that. There must be selling
venues to match.
Anyway, if, for instance, your bowls are expressing your passion about
Empty Bowls (Lee Love), the expression itself should afford you great
satisfaction, whether the buyer recognizes it or not.
Eleanor Kohler
Centerport, NY, a winter wonderland
".... philosophers lay down many precepts fair in argument but not
applicable in use"
--Sir Francis Bacon
Lee on fri 14 jan 11
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Eleanor wrote=
=3D
:
> Snail said:
>
>> You will quite possibly alienate a potential buyer
>> who disagrees with your politics.
>
> Amen to that!
>
> I sell my pots at two pre-Christmas fairs. They play Christmas carols
> all day at one of them. I love carols--they are beautiful music.
>
> My customers are buying Christmas
This is a little bit amusing Elenaor. Do you think "Christmas
fairs" alienate non-Christians? If you live in more homogenious
areas, it might never occur to you that folks shop on the holidays for
other traditions.
This reminds me of the Joseph Campbell quote, when asked for a
definition of "myth": "Myth is other peoples' religion."
Actually, if you think about it, a lot of grief could be circumvented
if you understand that we all have beliefs and it is counterproductive
to label, dismiss an categorize them. Some people simply have no
stomach or capacity for philosophy and just want to sell their
neighbors mugs. Nobody has problems with that.
> mug big enough for Uncle Charlie's big hands?", =3DA0"Will that planter
> match Aunt Millie's sofa?"
Yes, there are many different kinds of buyers.
> My pots don't reflect my ethnicity or my politics.
That's a big factor. You need to know why you make pots.
> Anyway, if, for instance, your bowls are expressing your passion about
> Empty Bowls (Lee Love), the expression itself should afford you great
> satisfaction, whether the buyer recognizes it or not.
Venues and where you live have a big impact on what kind
of conversations your guests will bring up.
Eleanor, I know you don't make pots for these reasons, but
do you have ANY comment on Euan Craig or Willi Singleton's ideas or
reasons for making pots? While I make mugs for my neighbors, it
doesn't exclude me for making other kinds of pots. The reasons you
make pots, if you really live by what you believe, will bring of
conversations about the deeper philosophy.
It is very easy to make up straw men of your worst case
scenario for what others may do, but all that can be avoided if you
look at actual examples.
Here is Willi's link:
http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/337127#ixzz1B1sn6t6P
And Euans:
http://euancraig.blogspot.com/2009/05/mingei.html
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Vince Pitelka on fri 14 jan 11
Regarding displaying one's political/religious ideology while selling, I do
not see the point of discussing this, because the reality of the situation
is so obvious. If you want to make a living and support yourself and your
family, then keep your political and religious ideology completely out of
the sales venue and confine it to more appropriate situations. On the othe=
r
hand, if your political and/or religious ideology is more important to you
than whether or not you make a sale, then display it proudly, and I and
legions of other people will avoid your booth, gallery, studio, or website
like the plague.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Snail Scott on sat 15 jan 11
> On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Eleanor =3D
wrote:
>> I sell my pots at two pre-Christmas fairs. They play Christmas carols
>> all day at one of them...
As a non-Christian, I am sometimes annoyed that the=3D20
majority of craft fairs are scheduled and marketed as=3D20
'Christmas' events. I understand the desire to get the=3D20
work out in front of all those gift shoppers and their=3D20
cash; that's only reasonable. But, If you want to see=3D20
who's making what, or even go shopping with intent,=3D20
you pretty much have to visit the Christmas fairs. I do=3D20
wonder why so many participants act as if no one but=3D20
Christians would be interested in their work. Incessant=3D20
Christmas music is part of that. They have pretty tunes,=3D20
but it gets overwhelming at times. I have no problem=3D20
with Christians doing Christmas stuff just for other=3D20
Christians but I wonder if some people have even=3D20
realized that's what they are doing.
Non-Christians in North America never gets a chance=3D20
to forget their minority status. There are certainly enough =3D20
Christians that marketing only to them will likely work=3D20
out fine, but not treating other potential customers as=3D20
irrelevant might be well rewarded. Most of us just smile=3D20
and nod when someone acts as though everyone is a=3D20
Christian just like them; it's natural enough in a culture=3D20
where even nominally secular government is loaded=3D20
with Christian rituals and policies, and most people=3D20
think they are just being nice. No slight is intended;=3D20
we get that. It's a real treat, though, to not be taken for=3D20
granted. It ought to be possible to do that without=3D20
alienating any of those dedicated Christmas shoppers.=3D20
-Snail
p.s. Adding 'and Hanukkah' to everything doesn't really=3D20
cut it. Picking other winter holidays - Hanukkah, Diwali,=3D20
Eid, Solstice or whatever - comes across like appointing=3D20
these as 'token Christmas-substitutes', which they ain't.
You don't need to aim your marketing mode in dozens=3D20
of specific directions; just be courteous and aware of=3D20
your assumptions.
I'll shut up, now.
-S.
James Freeman on sat 15 jan 11
Snail...
The reality is that assuming everyone else is Christian is a pretty safe be=
t
in the U.S. Over 79 percent of the population is one of the various flavor=
s
of Christian. All other religions COMBINED total less than 5 percent! All
the rest are a-religious, some atheist and agnostic, some Christian by
birth, but not practicing (6%), the rest just "no religion". Jews, the
second largest population group, comprise a minuscule 1.7% out of the 5% wh=
o
are not Christian. Buddhists, 0.7%, Muslim, 0.6%, Hindu, 0.4%. Add about
another 0.5% for American Indian religions and various new age belief
systems.
With 79% actively Christian and another 6% passively Christian, you have an
85% chance of getting it right by saying "Merry Christmas". And yes, if on=
e
is amongst the minuscule minority, one could easily feel quite marginalized
by the Christmas hoopla, even if that is not the intent of the majority.
"National Christmas Tree", anyone?
Just food for thought.
...James (who ain't sayin' which group he is in)
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Snail Scott wr=
ote:
>
>
> As a non-Christian, I am sometimes annoyed that the
> majority of craft fairs are scheduled and marketed as
> 'Christmas' events. I understand the desire to get the
> work out in front of all those gift shoppers and their
> cash; that's only reasonable. But, If you want to see
> who's making what, or even go shopping with intent,
> you pretty much have to visit the Christmas fairs. I do
> wonder why so many participants act as if no one but
> Christians would be interested in their work. Incessant
> Christmas music is part of that. They have pretty tunes,
> but it gets overwhelming at times. I have no problem
> with Christians doing Christmas stuff just for other
> Christians but I wonder if some people have even
> realized that's what they are doing.
>
> Non-Christians in North America never gets a chance
> to forget their minority status.
>
<#>
<#>
<#> <#>
Snail Scott on sun 16 jan 11
On Jan 15, 2011, at 4:45 PM, James Freeman wrote:
> With 79% actively Christian and another 6% passively Christian, you have =
an
> 85% chance of getting it right by saying "Merry Christmas"...
Oh, sure, I get that. I'm not offended by people who
offer me a 'Merry Christmas', either. They mean
well, and I take it in the spirit it was offered.
What I am distressed by is some apparent lack of
awareness that other beliefs and cultures even
exist, in this country or any other. I'm not suggesting
that every person I meet should try to guess my
beliefs and cater to them. I _would_ like to see more
people becoming conscious of the assumptions
they make, and not just about religion.
-Snail
James Freeman on sun 16 jan 11
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Snail Scott wr=
ote:
What I am distressed by is some apparent lack of
awareness that other beliefs and cultures even
exist, in this country or any other. I'm not suggesting
that every person I meet should try to guess my
beliefs and cater to them. I _would_ like to see more
people becoming conscious of the assumptions
they make, and not just about religion.
Snail...
On that point, I could not agree more.
Happy Thiruvalluvar Day!
...James
James Freeman
"...outsider artists, caught in the bog of their own consciousness, too
preciously idiosyncratic to be taken seriously."
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I should
not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
<#>
<#>
<#> <#>
Lee on sun 16 jan 11
On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Snail Scott wr=
=3D
ote:
>
> Oh, sure, I get that. I'm not offended by people who
> offer me a 'Merry Christmas', either. They mean
> well, and I take it in the spirit it was offered.
I'm with you. I am happy to receive Christmas greetings.
Some folks like black and white rules. I'd rather act based on
principles. "Receiving in the spirit it was offered" is a key
principle. But also, a principle I like to follow is "give in the
spirit it may be received." Meaning, I don't initially greet with
Merry Christmas, but if the situation or person warrants it, for
example at a Christmas sale or if the person says "Merry Christmas"
first, then I do. It has nothing to do with "PC." It has everything
to do with being aware of who you are communicating with.
An interesting thing to think about, is this "Merry Christmas"
problem is primarily a problem for monotheistic traditions. In
polytheistic or pantheistic cultures, outside traditions are quickly
accepted into the current pantheon. For instance, in Buddhism or
other Inidan tradition Jesus is accepted as another Bodhisattva,
prophet or God.
> What I am distressed by is some apparent lack of
> awareness that other beliefs and cultures even
> exist, in this country or any other. I'm not suggesting
> that every person I meet should try to guess my
> beliefs and cater to them. I _would_ like to see more
> people becoming conscious of the assumptions
> they make, and not just about religion.
I agree totally. If we simply dismiss beliefs because we
lable them political or religious, we really hobble our ability to
think things through. Answers are dead ends. Questions are without
end.
Awareness is the key. I write about the tea attitude toward
hospitality here (playing with Live Window's "Cloud":
http://cid-b77724b43fde6d01.office.live.com/view.aspx/.Documents/omotenashi=
=3D
.docx
Topics:
Omotenashi =3DE3=3D81=3D8A=3DE6=3D8C=3D81=3DE3=3D81=3DA6=3DE6=3D88=3D90=3DE=
3=3D81=3D97 heart felt hospita=3D
lity
Ichi-go ichi-e =3DE4=3DB8=3D80=3DE6=3D9C=3D9F=3DE4=3DB8=3D80=3DE4=3DBC=3D9A=
, literally "one time, o=3D
ne meeting
Enishi =3DE7=3DB8=3D81 =3DE3=3D80=3D90=3DE3=3D81=3D88=3DE3=3D81=3DAB=3DE3=
=3D81=3D97=3DE3=3D80=3D91 means fate; =3D
destiny (esp. as a mysterious force that
binds two people together.)
--=3D20
--
=3DC2=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DC2=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DC3=3DB3g ar chul an tI=3DE2=3D80=3D94tIr dlainn t=
rina ch=3DC3=3DA9i=3D
le"=3DE2=3D80=3D94that is, "The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
John Post on sun 16 jan 11
> Happy Thiruvalluvar Day!
> ...James
James, I can't believe it's Thiruvalluvar Day already. I've got cards
to send, gifts to wrap and sun worshipping to do, and my kid has
midterms this week. It's gonna be busy around our household this week.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
>
Kanika Sircar on sun 16 jan 11
Yes, it is Thiruvalluvar Day! (Forgot.) Here's a quote from him:
391 Learn thoroughly whatever is to be learnt;
Then, let the conduct be worthy of his learning .
For those who might really want to know, he was a Tamil poet.
Kanika
--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Post"
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 3:16 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Selling pots
>> Happy Thiruvalluvar Day!
>> ...James
>
> James, I can't believe it's Thiruvalluvar Day already. I've got cards
> to send, gifts to wrap and sun worshipping to do, and my kid has
> midterms this week. It's gonna be busy around our household this week.
>
> John Post
> Sterling Heights, Michigan
>
> http://www.johnpost.us
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
>
>
>
>
>>
>
Vince Pitelka on sun 16 jan 11
Snail Scott wrote:
"What I am distressed by is some apparent lack of awareness that other
beliefs and cultures even exist, in this country or any other. I'm not
suggesting that every person I meet should try to guess my beliefs and cate=
r
to them. I _would_ like to see more people becoming conscious of the
assumptions they make, and not just about religion."
Thanks for that post, Snail. It is very distressing that young people in
North America know so little about other culture and religions. It makes
them so much less able to negotiate the situations and challenges of the
contemporary world. No one should ever "cater to" anyone else's beliefs.
They should just acknowledge and respect them, and when possible, learn
about them and from them.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Fred Parker on mon 17 jan 11
I haven't been following this thread for the past several days but I beli=
=3D
eve
James is responding to something Snail said about non-Christians being
annoyed by Christmas fairs etc. Because I have strong feelings about the=
=3D
original topic of the thread (displaying political/religious slogans in a=
=3D
sales environment) and also because I have equally strong feelings about
minorities in any population being annoyed by their minority status I hav=
=3D
e
to express myself.
First, until the PC crowd decided I should be offended by the good wishes=
=3D
of
someone of a faith different than my own I always felt a special bond to =
=3D
the
person offering it. "Happy Hanukah" (apologies for misspelling) from a
Jewish acquaintance (I am not Jewish) always signaled to me an invitation=
=3D
to
enter their "tent" for a few moments to enjoy the largesse of their own
customary good will and best wishes for others. I was honored to hear th=
=3D
is
greeting.
Similarly, when I say "Merry Christmas" to someone, frankly I don't care
what his faith is. That is irrelevant. I am simply conveying my persona=
=3D
l
wish that he might enjoy the same spirit of the season that I enjoy -- a =
=3D
way
of inviting him into my own tent for a moment.
I remember the first time a first-generation Japanese-American friend and=
=3D
business associate of mine in San Francisco invited me into his world. I=
=3D
had never visited Japan, had no knowledge of the language or customs and =
=3D
had
no idea the Japanese actually paid a lot of money to eat what I regarded
culturally, to be fish bait. He invited me to attend a meeting of what
amounted to the Japanese community's chamber of commerce. The food was
shabu-shabu, the speakers spoke often in Japanese and my friend introduce=
=3D
d
me, in English, as the token Honky for the day. Everyone got a good laug=
=3D
h,
including me; I learned how to boil my own lunch on the fly and found out=
=3D
even the Japanese have a sense of humor. After that my friend showed me
much more of Japan in the U.S.A. than most tourists ever see. I was ALWA=
=3D
YS
in the minorty -- typically, a minority of one -- and I was NEVER offende=
=3D
d
or annoyed. In fact, we did a considerable amount of business together. =
=3D
I
doubt that would have happened if I had rejected my friend's invitation t=
=3D
o
ride along in his world a few times.
For my part I say it's time to get over any obsessions with these matters=
=3D
you might have. If you're Irish and don't like being with Greeks, then s=
=3D
tay
away from Greek bars and festivals. They still have every right to be Gr=
=3D
eek
without having to worry about how you feel about it. If you're whatever =
=3D
and
don't like being around Christmas sales and craft fairs at Christmastime,=
=3D
then stay away from them. After all, here in the U.S. you can be whateve=
=3D
r
you want. Be big enough to allow others the same privilege without whini=
=3D
ng.
And finally, regarding pottery sales, if being enslaved to a narrowly
focused point of view is more important to you than selling more pots the=
=3D
n
by all means proudly display all the slogans you want. Another approach
might be to only make items that are sure only to appeal to customers
sharing your point of view. I'm guessing not many Jews will line up to b=
=3D
uy
tea bowls with crosses impressed into them, so if that market annoys you
then maybe this approach would work. Similarly, not too many Muslims wil=
=3D
l
go for Stars of David on their steins. Or, I am sure there must be a mar=
=3D
ket
for hand made rolling paper holders or maybe a line of Al Gore-inspired
Global Warmers. Either might do well in the right markets.
As for me, I still hold to my old, PC-outdated "live-and-let-live" way of=
=3D
thinking. I don't really enjoy raw fish and to be honest, really good
Japanese green teas still taste a bit seaweedy to me. I prefer mountain
oolongs and frankly I like my fish cooked through. That doesn't mean I'm=
=3D
annoyed by you if you like them.
So there, I said it. Everybody should do what they want re sales and
marketing. Everybody should do what they want re religious celebrations =
=3D
and
customs. Live and let live...
Fred Parker=3D20=3D20=3D20=3D20=3D20=3D20=3D20=3D20=3D20=3D20=3D20
On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:45:34 -0500, James Freeman
wrote:
SNIP
>
>With 79% actively Christian and another 6% passively Christian, you have=
=3D
an
>85% chance of getting it right by saying "Merry Christmas". And yes, if=
=3D
one
>is amongst the minuscule minority, one could easily feel quite marginali=
=3D
zed
>by the Christmas hoopla, even if that is not the intent of the majority.=
=3D
>"National Christmas Tree", anyone?
>
>Just food for thought.
>
>...James (who ain't sayin' which group he is in)
>
Lee on mon 17 jan 11
This is discussion has become totally absurd. Like I said
previously, PC used to have a political meaning. Now, it has been
reduced to being an excuse for being rude.
The main thing to remember is to think about your
customer's experience. Treat them like a special guest.
If you have trouble refraining from being rude, you
might need black and white rules to help you. Otherwise, treat your
customer as a special guest.
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Fred Parker on tue 18 jan 11
Hey Lee --
Just curious to know why you characterize this discussion, which clearly =
=3D
has
merit to some of us here, as "absurd." Debates showcase opposing points =
=3D
of
view. Observers and participants who might not be sure of their own
position can benefit from hearing both sides. To me, a blanket write-off=
=3D
of
someone's point of view -- or the entire discussion -- by characterizing =
=3D
it
as "absurd," which is usually to say, "worthless," is just an immature wa=
=3D
y
of admitting one has nothing to offer and they sure as hell don't want
anybody else offering anything either. "My way or the highway." Not
exactly enlightened.
Don't forget, this is about marketing one's pottery. Nobody here does th=
=3D
e
same pottery as anyone else. No two potters here have identical selling
experience either. Unless one is omniscient he/she would do well to embr=
=3D
ace
-- and not minimize -- the insights of other potters gleaned over lifetim=
=3D
es,
careers or a month.
Fred Parker
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:37:44 -0600, Lee wrote:
>This is discussion has become totally absurd. Like I said
>previously, PC used to have a political meaning. Now, it has been
>reduced to being an excuse for being rude.
>
SNIP
Randall Moody on tue 18 jan 11
I think that certain parts of the discussion are pushing towards
absurdity but the discussion on the whole is very valid. Political
Correctness started as avoidance of expressions or actions that can be
perceived to exclude or marginalize or insult people who are socially
disadvantaged or discriminated against but quickly turned into a way
to be offended by anything and everything. If anything it took being
polite to an absurd end. Interestingly it ran off the rails in those
wonderful hotbeds of "tolerance" you think so highly of.
From my reading of the thread, nobody is saying that you don't have
the right to plaster your booth with political, religious or
anti-religious statements. Rather most are saying that if you do you
shouldn't complain about the drop in sales.
On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Lee wrote:
> This is discussion has become totally absurd. =3DA0 Like I said
> previously, PC used to have a political meaning. =3DA0 Now, it has been
> reduced to being an excuse for being rude.
>
> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 The main thing to remember is to think abou=
t your
> customer's experience. =3DA0Treat them like a special guest.
>
> =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0 =3DA0If you have trouble refraining f=
rom being rude=3D
, you
> might need black and white rules to help you. =3DA0 =3DA0Otherwise, treat=
you=3D
r
> customer as a special guest.
>
>
> --
> =3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
>
> =3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=
=3D97that is=3D
, "The
> land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
> within itself." -- John O'Donohue
>
--=3D20
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
Deborah Thuman on wed 19 jan 11
Here's my 2 cents FWIW.
When Jim and I got juried into the local Renaissance Faire, the
organizers wanted demonstrations. Because I was showing my fiber art
and knitting could be put down and picked up, I chose to knit a pair
of tube socks. So I sat and knitted and stopped knitting when someone
came by. That demo brought in lots of people.
I can see us doing the same sort of thing with me building coil pots
and Jim doing the selling. There's the little matter of clay filled
hands here. Most people don't want mud on their pots so this would
need to be a two-person event. People who don't play in the mud have
no idea what goes into making a mug. I told a colleague yesterday that
I spent the weekend playing in the mud and made mugs. She thought that
the mugs were ready to drink out of. Nope. Suckers haven't even dried
enough to be bisque fired.
I can see where a little gentle teaching about what goes into making a
pot would go a long way towards selling a pot. And, because I'd be
working with clay out of the bag.... anything I made that I couldn't
transport or wasn't wild about could be easily squashed and put back
into the bag.
Deb Thuman
http://debthumansblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=3D5888059
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Deb-Thumans-Art-Page/167529715986
Bonnie Staffel on wed 19 jan 11
I wrote an article some time ago after a new artist group was formed in =3D
a
nearby town. As I was the "oldest" one there, felt I could offer some
insight into the prospect of getting into the sales of one's art.=3D20
Anyone wishing a copy of this article, write to me and I will attach it =3D
to a
return email. It is not long, but probably too long to include in this
forum. It is called, "Tooting One's Own Horn."
One might also look in the archives as I recall sending it to one of the
forums I am subscribed to.
Bonnie
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD=3DA0 Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD=3DA0 Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
Steve Slatin on thu 20 jan 11
Randall, there's plenty of history of intolerance from all sides
and in all locations.
I haven't been following this thread much, and fundamentally
don't disagree with your point that if you wear your politics/
religion/regional background on your sleeve you may lose some
sales.
I do take issue with the concept that tolerance "ran off the
rails" in any one location.=3DA0 The USA (which I love and honor,
and which I spent my professional life representing and
defending) has a sad history of intolerance towards=3D20
immigrants from Italy, Poland, Lithuania, Hungary,
and so on.=3DA0 In the states of the Confederacy, Italians
were the second most likely group to be lynched.=3DA0 In the
mid-20th century, well-known political figures ranted
about a secret tunnel being build "from the Vatican to
Catholic Church basements" to permit -- wait for it --
illegal immigration.
The very well-known Dr. Norman Vincent Peale ("The Power
of Positive Thinking") tried to swing the 1960 election
by claiming that a vote for Kennedy was a vote to end
free speech and to make the US subservient to the Vatican.
Of course, in the last 50 years we have stopped thinking
of central and southern Europeans and the Irish as
non-white.=3DA0 And we have stopped thinking of Catholics
as non-Christians.
And having been the despised 'other' hasn't made the=3D20
behavior of these various groups any better.=3DA0 Even while
Dr. Peale was excoriating Irish Catholics as insufficiently
American in spirit, the Irish Catholic Father Coughlin was=3D20
doing the same to Jews.
Collectively, society hasn't stopped being intolerant, we've
just become intolerant of other groups.=3DA0=3D20
Just this last year, an effort to block construction of a
mosque in Murfreesboro, Tn. nearly succeeded -- and was
followed by arson of construction equipment at the worksite.
Similar efforts have arisen in Temecula California, and
Sheboygan, Wisconsin.=3DA0 I doubt that these locations would
be the 'hotbeds of tolerance' your interlocutor so loves.
Our society -- like all societies -- has spoken or unspoken
agreements about what is acceptable speech and what is not.
Publicly doubting the choices of US troops on the battlefield
is unforgivable in most of the US.=3DA0 Failing to honor firefighters
and law enforcement personnel, likewise.=3DA0 Some institutions
and politicians cravenly exploit the willingness of the
public to think highly of themselves.
Mussolini did the same thing -- and, to a less well-known
extent, so did most of the other totalitarian leaders of
the last hundred years.=3DA0 So do many politicians in=3DA0 the US
today.=3DA0 This behavior is, in my opinion, contemptible.
I was on the highway here in Phoenix a few months ago and
saw a large banner on a building under construction.=3DA0 It
had a dome being filled in, and the banner read "IF YOU
THINK DIFFERENT YOUR WRONG" (misspelling theirs, not mine).
On the way home I read the rest of the sign , which said
"WE ARE BUILDING A CHRISTIAN HOUSE OF WORSHIP."
I found it sad that they had to defend themselves just because
of their choice of architectural styles.=3DA0 Sadder still that
they would cater to the us vs. them trope of our times.=3DA0 I
have no idea what faith they are, and I don't care -- they
have the right to pray as they see fit.
Likewise, they have the right to dress differently if they
wish so that they can recognize each other in public, or to
dress without distinguishing garb if they prefer.=3DA0 They have
the right to speak whatever language they want, whether it's
Spanish, Urdu, or Klingon.=3DA0 They have the right to teach=3D20
whatever creation belief that they want to their children,
and to teach them how to pray (or not -- their call).=3DA0 But=3D20
they have no right to deny those rights to others, even
if the other has different skin color, or speaks with an
accent, or has a different political ideology.
Steve Slatin --=3D20
--- On Tue, 1/18/11, Randall Moody wrote:
> I think that certain parts of the
> discussion are pushing towards
> absurdity but the discussion on the whole is very valid.
> Political
> Correctness started as avoidance of expressions or actions
> that can be
> perceived to exclude or marginalize or insult people who
> are socially
> disadvantaged or discriminated against but quickly turned
> into a way
> to be offended by anything and everything. If anything it
> took being
> polite to an absurd end. Interestingly it ran off the rails
> in those
> wonderful hotbeds of "tolerance" you think so highly of.
>=3D20
> From my reading of the thread, nobody is saying that you
> don't have
> the right to plaster your booth with political, religious
> or
> anti-religious statements. Rather most are saying that if
> you do you
> shouldn't complain about the drop in sales.
=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Beth Donovan on mon 24 jan 11
I'm the first to admit I'm not a good potter, but I love pottery, and I lov=
e
dabbling with clay. I've been reading this list for many years.
I did discover, though, that I am a good fiber artist, and Mel's words are
right on the mark.
I think it's kind of funny that many of you really jumped on his comments
about politics and bumper stickers. Especially Lee. Lee, not everyone who
loves the slow food movement, farmers' markets and creating wonderful art i=
s
a liberal. Not.Even.Close. I will not buy a pot from you or anyone else
who annoys me with their politics. If you really believe that someone who
does not have the same ideas on politics and culture is incapable of
appreciating good art, you are very wrong.
Now, I live in the middle of the country. Kansas. I live on a farm. I
could not be closer to nature. I raise fiber critters, shear them, clean
and dye their fiber and spin it into beautiful yarn which I sell at our
local farmers' market. I always bring one of my travel wheels with me an=
d
spin. I engage the people at the market and it works. I'm selling my craft=
.
I don't discuss politics with them. I don't discuss religion with them. I
do spinning demonstrations at schools - all of these things are increasing
my business. I do think it is making a connection with people that sells
them on buying something that is very expensive for them, and being
respectful of them.
And, durn, it, I'm about as conservative as someone can get. I'm a lifetim=
e
member of the NRA (on a farm, you need to be able to kill coyotes who prey
on baby goats and chickens)and I'm even a founding member of our local
Republican Women's club. But I never bring that up when I'm selling my
yarns.
I'll shut up now, and get back to lurking and enjoying reading your missive=
s
about clay.
Cheers!,
Beth Donovan
The Farm at Castle Argghhh!
http://www.thedonovan.com/the_farm
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Regarding displaying one's political/religious ideology while selling, I =
do
> not see the point of discussing this, because the reality of the situatio=
n
> is so obvious. If you want to make a living and support yourself and you=
r
> family, then keep your political and religious ideology completely out of
> the sales venue and confine it to more appropriate situations. On the
> other
> hand, if your political and/or religious ideology is more important to yo=
u
> than whether or not you make a sale, then display it proudly, and I and
> legions of other people will avoid your booth, gallery, studio, or websit=
e
> like the plague.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
DJ Brewer on mon 24 jan 11
I have to second Beth Donovan's post. I'm a Texan, an NRA member, and
live on the river's edge of a redneck town. These people buy my monster
mugs and facejugs and other pottery -- as do chemical engineers who work
for Dowe. Let's not glaze over the broad differences between people and
art appreciation. We'd all love to think its only those of our own ilk
who truly appreciate fine art and craftwork -- but it jes' aint so! My
customers cover the political gamut and the religious one as well. I
guess we all have monsters in us, and therein lies its universal appeal.
Pottery itself is an icon of universal need -- I believe everyone on the
planet owns something made out of clay.
I think its fine to be a Republican and a Christian and sell clayware.
I think its fine to be an Independent and a Moonie and sell clayware
(that would be me). I think its fine to be whatever you are and sell
clayware (anyone whose political or religious views I did not mention,
please realize you are included in the last category -- don't write a
rebuttal based on the fact that I did not mention you personally). I
don't think we need to hide who we are to sell clayware -- neither do I
think a salesbooth is a political or a religious forum. It jes' is what
it is. If in shootin' the breeze with customers, a topic comes up, let
it ride. People like conversation. I've reeled in quite a few sales in
my lifetime cussin and discussin topics where the customer and I
differed. It's all a matter of heart. I always balance conversation
with keeping an eye on other customers in the venue, and disengage to
focus on someone else politely if someone seems more interested in talk
than buying.
done with my rant
off to get my coffee so I can get warmed up to face the cold walk to the
studio that's 40 feet from my home. It's 52 degrees out, folks, and
rainin'! Thass too damn cold!
much love
DJ
On 1/24/2011 7:22 AM, Beth Donovan wrote:
...
And, durn, it, I'm about as conservative as someone can get. I'm a lifetim=
e
member of the NRA (on a farm, you need to be able to kill coyotes who prey
on baby goats and chickens)and I'm even a founding member of our local
Republican Women's club. But I never bring that up when I'm selling my
yarns.
I'll shut up now, and get back to lurking and enjoying reading your missive=
s
about clay.
Lee on mon 24 jan 11
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:05 AM, DJ Brewer wrote:
> face jugs
DJ,
Have you ever had a discussion with a customer about the
social context of face jugs? It is a great African-American
tradition connected to slavery.
PBS Powerpoint presentation shares the history:
http://teacherweb.com/FL/BuckLakeElementarySchool/Art/FaceJugsrevised_short=
=3D
.ppt
--
=3DA0Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mingeisota.blogspot.com/
=3DA0"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D9=
7that is, =3D
"The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Randall Moody on mon 24 jan 11
There are conflicting theories on the origination of face jugs. It is
not only connected with African Americans and slavery. That being
said. I agree with DJ and Beth. There is this fallacy that if you are
conservative that you are somehow not as tolerant or are
intellectually inferior. I know ignorant intolerant people on all
sides of the political spectrum.
--
Randall in Atlanta
http://wrandallmoody.com
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