mel jacobson on tue 17 dec 02
just a follow up thought on college and advance
art studies.
i had a wonderful chat with a good friend that teaches
music at ohio state...the dean in fact.
we were chatting about the bankruptcy of modern
music. is it video, is it music, is it just sorta veiled sexual
exploitation? what is it? it is sure not skilled, thought
out music.
what is it we see in art? is it skill, aesthetics? no,
it is about personal ideas and personal stories. (usually
no one cares about the story.) when the story has been
told, where does the artist go from there? another personal
story. as i have read in `art and fear`, the author claims that
the artist makes one great
statement, then quits art. often. in fact, far too often.
it seems to me, that we who are driven by craft and skill must
continue to fight against such bankruptcy. the pressure has to
come from us.
we live in a society that does not want to `hurt feelings, tell
people what to do`. i think it has to stop. political correct
b.s. and the inability to confront this tide of non-skilled, do
what you want and it is `wonderful` idealism should end.
it is like speaking of tapered, well made handles.
`don't hurt our feelings vince`. `don't have strong opinions mel`.
well, some of us have strong opinions, and feelings must be hurt
if that is all that is necessary to move art forward.
great form, great composition, great science and skill will
move the arts forward. making blue because the corporate
moogoo's tell us to is b.s. (i am not attacking chris campbell, she
was reporting what she read...it was not her doing...don't kill
the messenger.) but, what i do attack, is the continuation of
sloppy, poorly designed pots, with no sense of critical teaching
behind them. this is not an attack on the total college community.
there are vast numbers of hard working, dedicated clay teachers
out there...but, there are also huge pockets of third and fourth
generation teachers that feel that making skilled pots, skilled
three dimensional design is `crafty and beneath them`. well,
if it is beneath them, and they are embarrassed by skill, they should
move on. is teaching art just about ideas? no, it is years of
fine form, understanding of our craft. skill, knowledge, years of study
and exploration. ideas come out the other end. it takes years
to gather the experiences to tell a story that has merit. it does
not begin when the student is 19. that is all b.s.
they have nothing to tell us. it takes time. let them learn the
craftmanship of being an artist. the ideas will take care of themselves.
mel
just some ideas to bang around.
others will have strong opinions also.
good.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Hendrix, Taylor J. on tue 17 dec 02
Mel, and the rest of you that can read,
I've posted this before and, by gawd, I'll post it again:
Read _The Invisible Core: A Potter's Life and Thoughts_=20
by Marguerite Wildenhain especially the chapter entitled
"The Pursuit of Excellence in Art Education" if you want to read
someone's oppinion who has thought long and honestly on it.
It is a strongly worded commentary, nay incitement of 'art'=20
education in America. For her, learning an art/craft took years
not semesters, and her guiding principle was probably 'discipline'
and not 'education.' This is keep your head down and your mouth
shut discipline. This is back breaking, 15-hour day for 10 years=20
discipline. This is non-thesis, no credit, learn what you must=20
to solve the problem at hand discipline. She has very few kind things
to say about art education in America and, I think, STILL some very =
valid points.
Now, I've not been here long enough to share my strong opinions (having
any strong opinions at this point is probably very presumptuous of me),
but perhaps Marguerite just doesn't get us, Vince and others. Not all =
of us are
going to be able to live in small dorm rooms devoid of heat and =
furniture
save a bed, throw for 10+ hours in a workshop, subject ourselves to
frankly honest criticism from master craftspersons and artists, graduate =
from
a truly unique program doomed to extinction at the hands of artless =
bureaucrats, resign
from a teaching post in the face of growing anti-Semitism only to build
a pottery from scratch in a foreign land, flee the snapping jaws of the
Nazi madness, land in America, cross the continent to build by hand and =
alone a workshop
and one room cabin with only the hope of the future, working long, =
tiring days
in solitude, husbandless, customer less, near-friendless for years and =
STILL
hold tenaciously to the artistic ideals that we honestly came by in our =
living.
All that and I still think she just doesn't get us. We certainly don't =
have time
for all that. That's too hard. We got to get in there, learn our =
chops,=20
get that degree (which is our inalienable right--God bless America) and=20
go make art or whatever.
Why, Wildenhain asks, do we expect doctors to spend almost 10 years =
learning
their craft before they are considered true and autonomous doctors and =
yet a
mere four years--not even concentrated years--of study is expected to =
produce
excellent artists? I don't know, I have no strong opinions.
head's down, in Waco
-----Original Message-----
From: mel jacobson [mailto:melpots@PCLINK.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 5:38 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: bankrupt art/music
...
well, some of us have strong opinions, and feelings must be hurt
if that is all that is necessary to move art forward.
great form, great composition, great science and skill will
move the arts forward. ...
terry sullivan on tue 17 dec 02
wow, I do love it when Mel San speaks out with passion.
Although I am primarily a ceramist; I have been delving into the crafts
of glass and woodworking.
I have an especial love for the crafts in regard to the Arts and
Crafts movement at the turn of last century. The ideals of this
movement were something I strongly relate to in pottery, metal work,
glass, wood work, and architecture.
For sure; it is good for artists to push the boundaries and express
ideas and feelings through their art.
But there are the craft and traditional values of being skilled as
well. Nonetheless; I , like Mel, have seen a tendency in many art
schools to promote concept over skill. I truly believe that the great
artist achieves great skill that then allows them to make work of great
and lasting value. Even with the Arts and Crafts view in woodworking
that joinery and craftsmanship should be exposed, there was the
requirement that the exposed work be of the highest standard. No sloppy
joinery and finish there.
Having said that; I do love doing performance art and other site
specific art that is not meant to last. That is another form of art. It
is transitory and for the moment. It has editorial and other time
sensitive messages.
It is different from creating "art" that is supposed to last through the
ages like pots, sculpture, or the like.
If one is creating art pieces that must stand alone through time,they
must have the skill of the craftsman and their artistic skills to
sustain the work. A sloppily made chair by Sam Maloof would not be
accepted just because he is famous. A tea bowl by Tom Colman is great
because it is based on years of work and because it is a really
wonderful piece. It is the craftsmanship that results in the beauty we
all can see.
We on this list work primarily in clay. Most of us work in functional
based ceramics. We have a very specialized viewpoint about ceramics. We
should be proud of our accomplishments as Potters and, at the same time,
realize there is a larger arts scene out there that has many different
motives for creating works of art.
Yours,
Terry Sullivan
Director and Chief Gofer
The Nottingham Center for the Arts
San Marcos,CA
www.nottinghamarts.org
Gail Dapogny on wed 18 dec 02
Terry said:
>For sure; it is good for artists to push the boundaries and express
>ideas and feelings through their art.
>But there are the craft and traditional values of being skilled as
>well. Nonetheless; I , like Mel, have seen a tendency in many art
>schools to promote concept over skill. I truly believe that the great
>artist achieves great skill that then allows them to make work of great
>and lasting value.
I remember when Kurt Weiser finished his MFA here at Michigan. He
mentioned that he threw pots throughout graduate school -- the lone thrower
in a class of students who never touched wheels -- but still in the spirit
of stretching artistically, taking his work to new places. He was an
extremely competent craftsman-- an exquisite thrower, and full of fabulous
ideas as well. His MFA show was wonderful. And---he also was the first to
be offered a job -- two, at least! -- one of them as Director at Archie
Bray (which he took). I would bet he's never looked back.
---Gail
Gail Dapogny
1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
(734) 665-9816
gdapogny@umich.edu
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/dapogny (single historical photo - no longer
registered with Silverhawk)
Rebecca P on wed 18 dec 02
As Henry James said: "It is art that makes life, makes interest, makes
importance and I know of no substitute whatever for the force and beauty of
its process."
Rebecca Pierre
Oak Island, NC
>From: terry sullivan
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: bankrupt art/music
>Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:11:55 -0800
>
>wow, I do love it when Mel San speaks out with passion.
>
>Although I am primarily a ceramist; I have been delving into the crafts
>of glass and woodworking.
>I have an especial love for the crafts in regard to the Arts and
>Crafts movement at the turn of last century. The ideals of this
>movement were something I strongly relate to in pottery, metal work,
>glass, wood work, and architecture.
>
>For sure; it is good for artists to push the boundaries and express
>ideas and feelings through their art.
>But there are the craft and traditional values of being skilled as
>well. Nonetheless; I , like Mel, have seen a tendency in many art
>schools to promote concept over skill. I truly believe that the great
>artist achieves great skill that then allows them to make work of great
>and lasting value. Even with the Arts and Crafts view in woodworking
>that joinery and craftsmanship should be exposed, there was the
>requirement that the exposed work be of the highest standard. No sloppy
>joinery and finish there.
>
>Having said that; I do love doing performance art and other site
>specific art that is not meant to last. That is another form of art. It
>is transitory and for the moment. It has editorial and other time
>sensitive messages.
>It is different from creating "art" that is supposed to last through the
>ages like pots, sculpture, or the like.
>
>If one is creating art pieces that must stand alone through time,they
>must have the skill of the craftsman and their artistic skills to
>sustain the work. A sloppily made chair by Sam Maloof would not be
>accepted just because he is famous. A tea bowl by Tom Colman is great
>because it is based on years of work and because it is a really
>wonderful piece. It is the craftsmanship that results in the beauty we
>all can see.
>
>We on this list work primarily in clay. Most of us work in functional
>based ceramics. We have a very specialized viewpoint about ceramics. We
>should be proud of our accomplishments as Potters and, at the same time,
>realize there is a larger arts scene out there that has many different
>motives for creating works of art.
>
>Yours,
>Terry Sullivan
>Director and Chief Gofer
>The Nottingham Center for the Arts
>San Marcos,CA
>www.nottinghamarts.org
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
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Tom's E-mail on fri 20 dec 02
Mel,
I'm uncertain whether I agree with your comments about the bankruptcy of =
modern music and whether its video or music or sorta veiled sexual =
explotation. I remember as a young man abhored by the "KING" and the =
"Beatles". I would then have written what you did on your post. Today if =
you asked me John Lennon's Imagine is my favorite song, I love many of =
their other songs and most of the King's. Today I really don't like rap; =
I think it contrived and trivial in many respects but I thing given time =
and openmindedness I might grow to appreciate it. Today I hate "funk =
art" that appears in our publications and while I appreciate the skill =
it takes to make, fire and glaze these monstrosities, I can't turn the =
pages fast enough to the next article.
You know that I feel very much like a wanta be ceramic artist; I feel =
that ceramic art is a co-mingling of the visual and tactile arts. Music =
- that auditory art is beyond my ability to produce. I had a thought =
last week after I made friends with a homeless person that was a world =
class chief. This could be a long story so suffice it to say that I =
loaned him some money and helped him to get a job at Emerald's =
restaurant @ universal studio after seeing him in the health care clinic =
for the homeless 4-5 months ago. He called and asked if we were doing =
any X-mas parties and prepared the most awesome food we have ever had. I =
commented at the party that I have had parties for U.S. Senators, =
Congressmen/women, City Commissioners, County Commissioners etc... and =
never was the food better than for the party we had for the employees of =
the homeless clinic. It got me thinking about art. I came the the =
conclusion that art is sensually base. There is a visual art, a hearing =
art, a tasting art, a tactile art and a olfactory art. Art is about =
sensing the world in different ways. Ceramic art is a combination of =
visual and tactile art unlike painting that is largely visual and unlike =
cooking that is gustatory and unlike music that is auditory and unlike =
the appreciation of odors that is olfactory. Forgive me if this insight =
is already known to most on the list but I have never had any formal =
courses in MFA programs. When I don't appreciate a dish with too much =
curry for my taste, I would rather say, my palate is not as well trained =
as a gustatory artist. If I don't like a particular type of music, my =
auditory senses maybe are not as well attuned. Hell, when someone =
doesn't like a pot I've made that I think is beautiful, maybe their =
visual and tactile senses are not as well attuned.
Best X-mas to all
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
Steve Dalton on sun 22 dec 02
Damn that was good! You always say that someone else hits the nail on the
head...well this time you smacked it dead on!
--
Steve Dalton
Clear Creek Pottery
Snohomish, Wa
www.clearcreekpottery.com
sdpotter@gte.net
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