Paul Lewing on wed 18 dec 02
on 12/18/02 4:47 PM, Chris Schafale at candle@INTREX.NET wrote:
> I may have this wrong, but I think that soda ash is the same as
> sodium carbonate, which is found in the grocery store under the
> name "washing soda". I have a box made by Arm & Hammer.
>
>
>> Hi everyone,
>> I am going to be experimenting with some Egyptian paste but do
>> not have soda ash. Does anyone know a substitute? Thanks.
Chris is right, Evan, and you probably don't even need to make that trip to
the store. Sodium Carbonate is the main ingredient in the powdered soap you
put in both your dishwasher and your clothes washer. Read the ingredients.
Sodium carbonate will be first, with maybe some sodium bicarbonate and some
other stuff. The other stuff is mostly scent and stuff to keep it from
clumping up.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Evan Clifford on wed 18 dec 02
Hi everyone,
I am going to be experimenting with some Egyptian paste but do
not have soda ash. Does anyone know a substitute? Thanks.
-Evan
Chris Schafale on wed 18 dec 02
I may have this wrong, but I think that soda ash is the same as
sodium carbonate, which is found in the grocery store under the
name "washing soda". I have a box made by Arm & Hammer.
Chris
Date sent: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:42:16 -0500
Send reply to: Clayart
From: Evan Clifford
Subject: Soda Ash Subtsitute?
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Hi everyone,
> I am going to be experimenting with some Egyptian paste but do
> not have soda ash. Does anyone know a substitute? Thanks.
> -Evan
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
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>
Light One Candle Pottery
Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina, USA
(south of Raleigh)
candle@intrex.net
http://www.lightonecandle.com
Roger Graham on fri 20 dec 02
I've been following the posts to and fro about soda ash, where to get it,
what to use for a substitute. Time for a crash-course chemistry lesson.
"Soda ash" is sodium carbonate, just another dry white powder. If it's
COMPLETELY dry, its formula is Na2CO3 (for the non-chemists, Na is the
symbol for sodium, given ages ago when in Latin they called it natrium). The
completely dry stuff is what chemists would call "anhydrous sodium
carbonate".
BUT... the stuff absorbs water from the air, and soon there's an extra
molecule of water added to the formula. Usually written with a dot in the
middle, Na2CO3.H2O, so you can see the one molecule of water tacked onto the
end. Chemists would call this "sodium carbonate monohydrate". It's still a
white powder, and it still looks dry.
Not finished yet. If you dissolve the stuff in water, and then let crystals
grow as the water evaporates, you get yet another form with TEN molecules of
water tacked on the end. What they call "sodium carbonate decahydrate".
Who cares? Well, if you were weighing the stuff out as an ingredient in a
recipe, they'd probably expect you to be using the completely dry anhydrous
kind. But it's not commonly used as a glaze ingredient, by reason of being
soluble in water.
Ages ago, before detergents took over in the laundry, you could buy sodium
carbonate over the counter most everywhere as "washing soda". Put it in the
wash if the town water supply contained nasty minerals. But nobody asks for
it now, so it's a bit harder to find. Not to worry... you can make your own,
from sodium BICARBONATE or "baking soda".
More chemistry coming up. Sodium bicarbonate is NaHCO3. It has the useful
property that, when heated a bit above 100 degrees C, it decomposes and
gives off steam and carbon dioxide (which of course is why they use it in
cooking... the carbon dioxide given off is what makes the pastry rise).
What's left behind is just plain Na2CO3, the anhydrous kind.
Which brings us to the practical steps. If you weigh out 100 grams of baking
soda into a cooking pot, and heat it on the stove or in the oven for say
ten minutes, it will steam itself dry. You will end up with 63 grams of
anhydrous soda ash. If you want it to remain anhydrous, better store it in
an airtight jar.
There. Aren't you glad you asked?
Roger Graham, near Gerringong, Australia
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rogergraham
Dannon Rhudy on fri 20 dec 02
Roger said:
...... Time for a crash-course chemistry lesson.
> Who cares? Well, if you were weighing the stuff out as an ingredient in a
> recipe, they'd probably expect you to be using the completely dry
anhydrous
> kind. ......
Now THIS was a delight, clear and concise and informative. Excellent
and interesting information, especially for the non-chemists on the list
(most of the list, no doubt).
I usually edit carefully when posting, not to clutter the list. In this
case, though, I left ALL of the original post attached in case some
failed to read it and would like a second glance. It is very helpful.
I have often used baking soda to replace soda ash when doing
soda firings, and dissolved in water as a brush on. Not because
I knew the chemical whys/wherefores, but because I tried it and
it worked, and sometimes it was just convenient.
Thank you, Roger.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
>
> "Soda ash" is sodium carbonate, just another dry white powder. If it's
> COMPLETELY dry, its formula is Na2CO3 (for the non-chemists, Na is the
> symbol for sodium, given ages ago when in Latin they called it natrium).
The
> completely dry stuff is what chemists would call "anhydrous sodium
> carbonate".
>
> BUT... the stuff absorbs water from the air, and soon there's an extra
> molecule of water added to the formula. Usually written with a dot in the
> middle, Na2CO3.H2O, so you can see the one molecule of water tacked onto
the
> end. Chemists would call this "sodium carbonate monohydrate". It's still
a
> white powder, and it still looks dry.
>
> Not finished yet. If you dissolve the stuff in water, and then let
crystals
> grow as the water evaporates, you get yet another form with TEN molecules
of
> water tacked on the end. What they call "sodium carbonate decahydrate".
>
> Who cares? Well, if you were weighing the stuff out as an ingredient in a
> recipe, they'd probably expect you to be using the completely dry
anhydrous
> kind. But it's not commonly used as a glaze ingredient, by reason of
being
> soluble in water.
>
> Ages ago, before detergents took over in the laundry, you could buy sodium
> carbonate over the counter most everywhere as "washing soda". Put it in
the
> wash if the town water supply contained nasty minerals. But nobody asks
for
> it now, so it's a bit harder to find. Not to worry... you can make your
own,
> from sodium BICARBONATE or "baking soda".
>
> More chemistry coming up. Sodium bicarbonate is NaHCO3. It has the useful
> property that, when heated a bit above 100 degrees C, it decomposes and
> gives off steam and carbon dioxide (which of course is why they use it in
> cooking... the carbon dioxide given off is what makes the pastry rise).
> What's left behind is just plain Na2CO3, the anhydrous kind.
>
> Which brings us to the practical steps. If you weigh out 100 grams of
baking
> soda into a cooking pot, and heat it on the stove or in the oven for say
> ten minutes, it will steam itself dry. You will end up with 63 grams of
> anhydrous soda ash. If you want it to remain anhydrous, better store it in
> an airtight jar.
>
> There. Aren't you glad you asked?
>
>
> Roger Graham, near Gerringong, Australia
>
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rogergraham
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Lily Krakowski on fri 20 dec 02
Yes. I am glad someone asked. And the prize for Clear Explanation of the
Week goes to you, with all good wishes of the season,
Roger Graham writes:
> I've been following the posts to and fro about soda ash, where to get it,
> what to use for a substitute. Time for a crash-course chemistry lesson.
>
> "Soda ash" is sodium carbonate, just another dry white powder. If it's
> COMPLETELY dry, its formula is Na2CO3 (for the non-chemists, Na is the
> symbol for sodium, given ages ago when in Latin they called it natrium). The
> completely dry stuff is what chemists would call "anhydrous sodium
> carbonate".
>
> BUT... the stuff absorbs water from the air, and soon there's an extra
> molecule of water added to the formula. Usually written with a dot in the
> middle, Na2CO3.H2O, so you can see the one molecule of water tacked onto the
> end. Chemists would call this "sodium carbonate monohydrate". It's still a
> white powder, and it still looks dry.
>
> Not finished yet. If you dissolve the stuff in water, and then let crystals
> grow as the water evaporates, you get yet another form with TEN molecules of
> water tacked on the end. What they call "sodium carbonate decahydrate".
>
> Who cares? Well, if you were weighing the stuff out as an ingredient in a
> recipe, they'd probably expect you to be using the completely dry anhydrous
> kind. But it's not commonly used as a glaze ingredient, by reason of being
> soluble in water.
>
> Ages ago, before detergents took over in the laundry, you could buy sodium
> carbonate over the counter most everywhere as "washing soda". Put it in the
> wash if the town water supply contained nasty minerals. But nobody asks for
> it now, so it's a bit harder to find. Not to worry... you can make your own,
> from sodium BICARBONATE or "baking soda".
>
> More chemistry coming up. Sodium bicarbonate is NaHCO3. It has the useful
> property that, when heated a bit above 100 degrees C, it decomposes and
> gives off steam and carbon dioxide (which of course is why they use it in
> cooking... the carbon dioxide given off is what makes the pastry rise).
> What's left behind is just plain Na2CO3, the anhydrous kind.
>
> Which brings us to the practical steps. If you weigh out 100 grams of baking
> soda into a cooking pot, and heat it on the stove or in the oven for say
> ten minutes, it will steam itself dry. You will end up with 63 grams of
> anhydrous soda ash. If you want it to remain anhydrous, better store it in
> an airtight jar.
>
> There. Aren't you glad you asked?
>
>
> Roger Graham, near Gerringong, Australia
>
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rogergraham
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Lili Krakowski
P.O. Box #1
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
Russel Fouts on sat 21 dec 02
Roger
>> Not finished yet. If you dissolve the stuff in water, and then let crystals grow as the water evaporates, you get yet another form with TEN molecules of water tacked on the end. What they call "sodium carbonate decahydrate". ......Ages ago, before detergents took over in the laundry, you could buy sodium carbonate over the counter most everywhere as "washing soda". Put it in the wash if the town water supply contained nasty minerals. But nobody asks for it now, so it's a bit harder to find. <<
It's commonly available in Belgium in any supermarket and it's really
cheap.
Your message is really interesting and explains some of the results I
was (or wasn't) getting when experimenting with washing soda.
If you heat this stuff in a pan, the crystals will melt and you will get
(aside from some evaporation) an almost 10% solution. Any idea how much
the evaporation of water would account for? Maybe a 12% solution?
Russel
--
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
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