Cantello Studios on sun 22 dec 02
* I'm not sure what the point of this message is, except to say that I wish
> everyone would encourage creativity and free expression of their work in
the
> very young. When the rest of us are dead and gone, they are the ones that
> will be left, hopefully still making art.
*
I would like to share how my boys are encouraging creativity. My boys have
been giving art set to their classmates for the last 4 years. They pay for
them themselves with the money they earn from their pots they make and sell.
Each year a new group of kids walk out of the classroom with the biggest
grins on their faces. I personalize each art set with their name on it.
For some kids it is the first time they have ever owned brand new crayons,
pastels, color pencils and paints. The 'thank you' cards the boys have
received show what wonderful artistic talent there is in children. Many
just never had the tools to help let it out. This year we added a new
element of giving. Instead of taking cupcakes in for my youngest sons 7th
birthday, we wrapped up books. I explained to his class how fun it is to
have a birthday because you get presents. But, instead of just Tanner
getting a present. They would get one too. I am personally hoping by
providing art sets and books it will enrich a child that doesn't have that
"lucky" environment that my boys are growing up in.
Tracy- the other half of cantellostudios.com N. CA where it is "beginning
to feel like Christmas!" and who's son thinks that by having a xmas tree in
his room and 1 in the living room Santa will bring more gifts...
Marianne Lombardo on sun 22 dec 02
I've already deleted my old messages so I don't know what the original
subject line was on this topic.
Yesterday we went to Toronto to visit family. My 12 year old niece was
telling me about the pottery class she had taken and the different pots she
made. She is already signed up for a new pottery class in the Spring.
(Seems she was inspired to try pottery after watching me on the wheel, and
playing with some clay I gave her when she visited last summer.) She told
me about the handbuilding she had done, and the bowl she made on the wheel,
and my heart flinched when she said her mother used the bowl for a dog food
dish. I wondered why her mother hadn't filled it with wrapped candy and
placed it in a prominent spot somewhere, but of course I said nothing of
this to my niece. Later I realized she loves her dog, and he has a very
precious bowl to use.
When I colour with my 3 year old grandaughter I was once asked why I don't
teach her to colour properly inside the lines. My reply was because it's
much more fun to colour outside the lines, as I matched her, scribble for
scribble. Yesterday I showed her how to glue things to her paper using a
gluestick. I glued down 2 objects and she did the rest. Later on, she was
carefully pulling all the pieces off the paper. Her mom asked her why was
she taking them off? Her reply was that Nanna did it and she wants to do
the whole thing by herself. We smiled, and said of course. That's a good
idea, you do your own now. And she did. Later she proudly presented her
artwork to me with instructions to put it "up high" (tape it onto the walls,
with the rest of her lovely work).
I'm not sure what the point of this message is, except to say that I wish
everyone would encourage creativity and free expression of their work in the
very young. When the rest of us are dead and gone, they are the ones that
will be left, hopefully still making art.
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
email: mlombardo@nexicom.net
Jeff on sun 22 dec 02
Growing up is the ONLY thing that takes away our creativity and
imagination,,
Moral ,,,, never, never, never grow up!!
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Marianne
Lombardo
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 8:58 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Children and Creativity
I've already deleted my old messages so I don't know what the original
subject line was on this topic.
Yesterday we went to Toronto to visit family. My 12 year old niece was
telling me about the pottery class she had taken and the different pots she
made. She is already signed up for a new pottery class in the Spring.
(Seems she was inspired to try pottery after watching me on the wheel, and
playing with some clay I gave her when she visited last summer.) She told
me about the handbuilding she had done, and the bowl she made on the wheel,
and my heart flinched when she said her mother used the bowl for a dog food
dish. I wondered why her mother hadn't filled it with wrapped candy and
placed it in a prominent spot somewhere, but of course I said nothing of
this to my niece. Later I realized she loves her dog, and he has a very
precious bowl to use.
When I colour with my 3 year old grandaughter I was once asked why I don't
teach her to colour properly inside the lines. My reply was because it's
much more fun to colour outside the lines, as I matched her, scribble for
scribble. Yesterday I showed her how to glue things to her paper using a
gluestick. I glued down 2 objects and she did the rest. Later on, she was
carefully pulling all the pieces off the paper. Her mom asked her why was
she taking them off? Her reply was that Nanna did it and she wants to do
the whole thing by herself. We smiled, and said of course. That's a good
idea, you do your own now. And she did. Later she proudly presented her
artwork to me with instructions to put it "up high" (tape it onto the walls,
with the rest of her lovely work).
I'm not sure what the point of this message is, except to say that I wish
everyone would encourage creativity and free expression of their work in the
very young. When the rest of us are dead and gone, they are the ones that
will be left, hopefully still making art.
Marianne Lombardo
Omemee, Ontario, Canada
email: mlombardo@nexicom.net
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Vince Pitelka on sun 22 dec 02
> I'm not sure what the point of this message is, except to say that I wish
> everyone would encourage creativity and free expression of their work in
the
> very young. When the rest of us are dead and gone, they are the ones that
> will be left, hopefully still making art.
The point of your message, dear Marianne, is that this is perhaps the most
profound and significant gift we can give our children and grandchildren.
Whatever we can do to encourage their natural affinity and inclination for
creativity will positively affect everything else they do for the rest of
their lives. Only a small percentage will become professional
artists/artisans, but the rest will be far better for their creative
experience and ability, and will make superior doctors, lawyers, mechanics,
CPAs, farmers, bureaucrats, etc. Artistic creativity just makes the world a
better place. It opens our eyes and our minds, and makes us more aware of
the human condition.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Marie Gibbons on sun 22 dec 02
In a message dated 12/22/02 6:11:59 PM Pacific Standard Time,
vpitelka@WORLDNET.ATT.NET writes:
> The point of your message, dear Marianne, is that this is perhaps the most
> profound and significant gift we can give our children and grandchildren.
> Whatever we can do to encourage their natural affinity and inclination for
> creativity will positively affect everything else they do for the rest of
> their lives.
so true Vince. I just finished a 3 week residency at an elementary school.
I worked with 500 kids, we made tile quilts. each class determined a story
to tell and then we broke it up into 3 facts. each student created an
original tile that had an image in the center that depicted their part of the
story. the original proposal was to create a permenant mural with the
tiles... then it seemed like the powers that be might have gotten scared that
the tiles wouldn't be 'good enough' to cement them to the building.... they
changed the project midstream to a non permanent showing of the work, and
even said that they felt no need for the tiles to stay in the school after
they were done.....
I felt so badly that they couldn't trust in the art work of their kids....
long story short, the tiles were absolutely beautiful... from the
kindergardeners to the 6th graders, they were stunning. we did hanging
installations, and ooooo how proud those powers that be could act once they
saw people oooing and ahhing over the finished work.
I think it is sad that some will poo poo the art of children, thinking that
things must be 'in the lines' and perfect. what a bad message this sends, it
is the reason some adults walk around feeling that hey have a not one
creative bone in their body.
ART is good
make lots
trust it
marie gibbons
www.oooladies.com
Vince Pitelka on mon 23 dec 02
> I think it is sad that some will poo poo the art of children, thinking
that
> things must be 'in the lines' and perfect. what a bad message this sends,
it
> is the reason some adults walk around feeling that hey have a not one
> creative bone in their body.
More sound wisdom, Marie. I have visited a lot of K-12 schools and
classrooms, and the minute you set foot in the door, you can tell whether
the teachers and administration "trust" the intellectual and creative
capabilities of the kids. If they don't, how very sad it is, because the
kids can ALWAYS tell. On the other hand, if the teachers and administration
have great faith in the kids, then the students generally live up to those
expectations. Some of the finest schools and programs are decorated by the
students from year to year, and the cumulative effect over time is
breathtaking and inspiring to kids and adults.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Lily Krakowski on mon 23 dec 02
A little message: children are born with endless potential. In raising them
we must squoosh a lot of it. If children are to survive and grow into
viable adults, a certain amount of "no dear, you must not do that" is
needed. Otherwise the tigers, the sharks, the traffic would get them.
But too many people squoosh and smash and repress far too much in children.
They do not tell the child it is ok to paint if one does it on an oilcloth
covered kitchen table, they just say DONT PAINT. It is within ourselves AS
adults that we must find the openess to let children explore what they
themselves want to be.
So to all my Christian friends: coming soon is the holyday of the birth of a
child...we all think with you about the Messianic potential of all little
babies....we all think with you of the gifts the Magi kings brought...
Let us hope for a year when all little babies will get glorious gifts.
Lili Krakowski
P.O. Box #1
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
Dean Walker on tue 24 dec 02
This is one of the reasons we homeschooled our boys. Most of our support
came from public schoolteachers. I did so after reading in the newspaper
that 25 percent of public school teachers in our town sent their kids to
private schools.
Dean
phil on wed 17 mar 10
Hi Paul, Carol, Randall, Vince, Eric, me, and anyone else I may have forgot
since I am tired and it has been a long day of Work here, where this pause
is a short Coffee Break before doing quite a few hours more...
At this point, I regret that Mr. Robinson had premised his talk with wishin=
g
to draw any association between 'education' and 'creativity', and instead, =
I
wish he had elected to have it be "Just what do we mean by education?" - an=
d
left 'creativity' out of it.
One of my reasons for saying this, is that everyone ( er, uhhh, well, all
three or four participants anyway ) is now fixated on how
elusive or mutable or hard to define 'creativity' is, how it seems to be
present or defensible
in children whether
in school or not, even if ( as an incidental aside, hardly worth wondering
about, )
it is typically soon dessicated or diminished or vestigual in the adults
those
children become...
...and, wherein, there does not seem to be any interest or wondering
to step back to view or consider what 'education' has
become in it's continuity and larger context, what that continuity and
context is, who defines it, what it excludes, or, to sense
or assay the limitations
we suffer in
consequence of our 'education' in
even trying to look at it at all...where, so far, reliably, we do not look
at it at all...and, probably, are not able to, with what 'school' gave us t=
o
operate with,
or with what we have left after what school took, to operate from.
An ironly I believe would not be lost on Mr. Robinson.
A musical interlude -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DoNO6pAJBCs4
Nurture and Nature went for a walk...
Who got lost?
Maybe...they both did...
Anyway...
Love,
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul gerhold"
>A lot of chatter about creativity and children and about how the schools
> harm creativity. A lot of web searching has convinced me of two things-
> one
> there is no universally accepted definition of creativity and two there i=
s
> no way to measure it!
>
> Maybe creativity falls into that vague category of " I know it when I see
> it
> " That being true I have not seen a lot of creativity in children-
> willingness to experiment yes and willingness to make mistakes yes but no=
t
> necessarily creativity. As children go through school their willingness
> to
> make mistakes probably decreases but I am not sure creativity does.
>
> Paul
paul gerhold on wed 17 mar 10
A lot of chatter about creativity and children and about how the schools
harm creativity. A lot of web searching has convinced me of two things- on=
e
there is no universally accepted definition of creativity and two there is
no way to measure it!
Maybe creativity falls into that vague category of " I know it when I see i=
t
" That being true I have not seen a lot of creativity in children-
willingness to experiment yes and willingness to make mistakes yes but not
necessarily creativity. As children go through school their willingness to
make mistakes probably decreases but I am not sure creativity does.
Paul
Carol Casey on wed 17 mar 10
Hmm. No creativity in children? No imaginative games? No seeing something a=
s
something else? Creativity seems to be fired by imagination and I see so
much of that in children. Perhaps children don't have the hand or language
skills that you associate with creativity . .. ?
Whether you can express it or not, you do have a definition of creativity i=
n
mind . . .
What if we substituted the word "imagination" for creativity?
Carol
Canary Court
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:38 AM, paul gerhold wr=
ote:
> A lot of chatter about creativity and children and about how the schools
> harm creativity. A lot of web searching has convinced me of two things-
> one
> there is no universally accepted definition of creativity and two there i=
s
> no way to measure it!
>
> Maybe creativity falls into that vague category of " I know it when I see
> it
> " That being true I have not seen a lot of creativity in children-
> willingness to experiment yes and willingness to make mistakes yes but no=
t
> necessarily creativity. As children go through school their willingness =
to
> make mistakes probably decreases but I am not sure creativity does.
>
> Paul
>
Vince Pitelka on wed 17 mar 10
Paul Gerhold wrote:
"A lot of chatter about creativity and children and about how the schools
harm creativity. A lot of web searching has convinced me of two things- on=
e
there is no universally accepted definition of creativity and two there is
no way to measure it! Maybe creativity falls into that vague category of '=
I
know it when I see it.' That being true I have not seen a lot of creativity
in children - willingness to experiment yes and willingness to make mistake=
s
yes but not necessarily creativity. As children go through school their
willingness to make mistakes probably decreases but I am not sure creativit=
y
does."
Paul -
As is the case with art, how can there be a universally accepted definition
of creativity, or a way to measure it? The mere nature of creativity
renders both of these completely impossible. To define a thing is to limit
its possibilities.
When I read your statement "I have not seen a lot of creativity in children
. . ." I did one of those jaw-dropping triple double-takes that John Stewar=
t
does so well (you should have seen it), and I have to ask (as John Stewart
might) "Are you f--king kidding me?" Given the opportunity, children are b=
y
far the most creative people of all, and as adults, if we could recover the
level of creativity present in so many children, we would be far more
effective as artists.
Children are creative intuitively and naturally, and in fact, without
interference and "well-meaning" intervention, they cannot NOT be creative.
Peers, parents, and teachers are the ones who interfere, trying to teach
"correct" ways to create and make art, and in doing so they pretty much
screw up the creative process in so many children. That natural willingnes=
s
to experiment and make mistakes evolves into a taught preference for
following directions and engaging in certainties in order to win approval.
The willingness to experiment and make mistakes is lost by the wayside amon=
g
so many children in so many schools.
It takes very special parents and teachers to really encourage creativity,
inventiveness, and risk-taking in children. Many of us in the arts are
those fortunate enough to have been deeply affected by such parents or
teachers.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Carol Casey on wed 17 mar 10
Obviously, I couldn't put it better. Thanks.
Carol
Canary Court
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:30 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Paul Gerhold wrote:
> "A lot of chatter about creativity and children and about how the schools
> harm creativity. A lot of web searching has convinced me of two things-
> one
> there is no universally accepted definition of creativity and two there i=
s
> no way to measure it! Maybe creativity falls into that vague category of
> 'I
> know it when I see it.' That being true I have not seen a lot of creativi=
ty
> in children - willingness to experiment yes and willingness to make
> mistakes
> yes but not necessarily creativity. As children go through school their
> willingness to make mistakes probably decreases but I am not sure
> creativity
> does."
>
> Paul -
> As is the case with art, how can there be a universally accepted definiti=
on
> of creativity, or a way to measure it? The mere nature of creativity
> renders both of these completely impossible. To define a thing is to lim=
it
> its possibilities.
>
> When I read your statement "I have not seen a lot of creativity in childr=
en
> . . ." I did one of those jaw-dropping triple double-takes that John
> Stewart
> does so well (you should have seen it), and I have to ask (as John Stewar=
t
> might) "Are you f--king kidding me?" Given the opportunity, children are
> by
> far the most creative people of all, and as adults, if we could recover t=
he
> level of creativity present in so many children, we would be far more
> effective as artists.
>
> Children are creative intuitively and naturally, and in fact, without
> interference and "well-meaning" intervention, they cannot NOT be creative=
.
> Peers, parents, and teachers are the ones who interfere, trying to teach
> "correct" ways to create and make art, and in doing so they pretty much
> screw up the creative process in so many children. That natural
> willingness
> to experiment and make mistakes evolves into a taught preference for
> following directions and engaging in certainties in order to win approval=
.
> The willingness to experiment and make mistakes is lost by the wayside
> among
> so many children in so many schools.
>
> It takes very special parents and teachers to really encourage creativity=
,
> inventiveness, and risk-taking in children. Many of us in the arts are
> those fortunate enough to have been deeply affected by such parents or
> teachers.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
phil on thu 18 mar 10
Hi Carol,
You are welcome.
Another angle...paralax...
I love this little Video montage taken from the film 'Dark City'.
"Shell Beach"
It is always night, but, no one notices.
The City has no 'end'...no matter where one goes, one is in the middle =3D
of it...and, one never goes anywhere, anyway...so...
One never sleeps, one merely wakes up now and then, and, adjusts...
Everyone has fond memories of Shell Beach, the Sunshine, the sweet Air, =3D
the cooling Breezes.
Most imagine themselves to retain a Post Card, a Momento, or, even a =3D
little ( empty ) Photo Album, of the good times they had there.
Everyone knows how to get there, even if no one has been there in many =3D
years.
If you want to know the way to find it, the way to get there, just =3D
ask...they'll tell you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D3DEV43aVP_DnA&feature=3D3Drelated
Love,
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----=3D20
From: Carol Casey=3D20
Hi, Phil, et al.,
Well, we're all awake now. Thanks for the musical interlude.
Maybe as you've said we've moved from the original topic in part =3D
because it seems vast, big E Education, and we look for the tangible in =3D
the question to hold on to: children (who are an important part of the =3D
original question) in association with another part of the question, =3D
creativity. It seemed to me that Vince's response did address the =3D
question of education as well as the comments some other Clayarters' =3D
offered about the responsibility of individuals, teachers and parents, =3D
in fostering creativity in the process of educating their children.=3D20
We also moved from the main topic because that's what happens in good =3D
conversation, too.
Answering the question about education=3D97that keeps education Ph.D.s =
=3D
and Ed.D.s in business. Whether or not that's good is yet another =3D
question.
Carol
Canary Court
Carol Casey on thu 18 mar 10
Hi, Phil, et al.,
Well, we're all awake now. Thanks for the musical interlude.
Maybe as you've said we've moved from the original topic in part because it
seems vast, big E Education, and we look for the tangible in the question t=
=3D
o
hold on to: children (who are an important part of the original question) i=
=3D
n
association with another part of the question, creativity. It seemed to me
that Vince's response did address the question of education as well as the
comments some other Clayarters' offered about the responsibility of
individuals, teachers and parents, in fostering creativity in the process o=
=3D
f
educating their children.
We also moved from the main topic because that's what happens in good
conversation, too.
Answering the question about education=3D97that keeps education Ph.D.s and
Ed.D.s in business. Whether or not that's good is yet another question.
Carol
Canary Court
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:44 AM, phil wrote:
> Hi Paul, Carol, Randall, Vince, Eric, me, and anyone else I may have forg=
=3D
ot
> since I am tired and it has been a long day of Work here, where this paus=
=3D
e
> is a short Coffee Break before doing quite a few hours more...
>
>
>
> At this point, I regret that Mr. Robinson had premised his talk with
> wishing
> to draw any association between 'education' and 'creativity', and instead=
=3D
,
> I
> wish he had elected to have it be "Just what do we mean by education?" -
> and
> left 'creativity' out of it.
>
>
> One of my reasons for saying this, is that everyone ( er, uhhh, well, all
> three or four participants anyway ) is now fixated on how
> elusive or mutable or hard to define 'creativity' is, how it seems to be
> present or defensible
> in children whether
> in school or not, even if ( as an incidental aside, hardly worth wonderin=
=3D
g
> about, )
> it is typically soon dessicated or diminished or vestigual in the adults
> those
> children become...
>
>
>
> ...and, wherein, there does not seem to be any interest or wondering
> to step back to view or consider what 'education' has
> become in it's continuity and larger context, what that continuity and
> context is, who defines it, what it excludes, or, to sense
> or assay the limitations
> we suffer in
> consequence of our 'education' in
> even trying to look at it at all...where, so far, reliably, we do not loo=
=3D
k
> at it at all...and, probably, are not able to, with what 'school' gave us
> to
> operate with,
> or with what we have left after what school took, to operate from.
>
>
> An ironly I believe would not be lost on Mr. Robinson.
>
>
>
> A musical interlude -
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D3DoNO6pAJBCs4
>
>
>
>
> Nurture and Nature went for a walk...
>
> Who got lost?
>
>
> Maybe...they both did...
>
>
>
>
> Anyway...
>
>
>
> Love,
>
>
> Phil
> Lv
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paul gerhold"
>
>
> A lot of chatter about creativity and children and about how the schools
>> harm creativity. A lot of web searching has convinced me of two things-
>> one
>> there is no universally accepted definition of creativity and two there =
=3D
is
>> no way to measure it!
>>
>> Maybe creativity falls into that vague category of " I know it when I se=
=3D
e
>> it
>> " That being true I have not seen a lot of creativity in children-
>> willingness to experiment yes and willingness to make mistakes yes but n=
=3D
ot
>> necessarily creativity. As children go through school their willingness
>> to
>> make mistakes probably decreases but I am not sure creativity does.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>
John Hesselberth on thu 18 mar 10
On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:30 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> As is the case with art, how can there be a universally accepted =3D
definition
> of creativity
It might not be a perfect definition, but mine is "The ability to solve =3D
problems for which there is no well-known or widely accepted solution."
For an artist the "problem" might be how to make a social statement in a =
=3D
meaningful way or how to portray the inner beauty of a drug addict or =3D
..........
For an engineer the "problem" might be how to get 20% more productivity =3D
out of a manufacturing process.
As long as you view "problem" in a broad way, I think this works pretty =3D
well--does for me anyhow. It is why I have always considered process =3D
engineers to be every bit as creative as research scientists or artists.
Regards,
John
John Hesselberth
john@frogpondpottery.com
=3D93The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain =3D
the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible =3D
amount of hissing=3D94
Jean Baptiste Colbert
steve graber on thu 18 mar 10
=3D0A=3D0Agrowing up my mom gave me that plasticine clay she used to hold p=
last=3D
ic flowers in store bought vases.=3DA0 (very ugly results by the way).=3DA0=
=3D0A=3D
=3D0Ait was the best thing she could have done and i swear she only did it =
i=3D
=3DA0think out of boredom.=3DA0 we had little money and toys were scarce.=
=3DA0 at=3D
age 3 and up i messed around with that clay making little men toys, cars, =
=3D
planes, etc.=3DA0 eventually i did the required dinosaur kids like to make.=
=3D
=3DA0 etc...=3DA0 a little older i found clay in the backyard, made mud bal=
ls, =3D
and discovered pit firing when dad burned leaves would make really cool can=
=3D
non balls we'd throw at each other the next day.=3DA0 (growing up involved =
a =3D
lot of throwing things at each other.=3DA0 we knew each other's backyard tr=
ee=3D
s according to what could be used as a thrown item - berries - nuts - etc).=
=3D
=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0Anow i make it a point to give little kids i know (none of m=
y own,=3D
but nieces, nephews, etc) either a block of plasticine ($10 at the clay st=
=3D
ore) or a pile of "regular" clay.=3DA0 when friends come to my home to visi=
t =3D
we usually set the kids up with a pile of clay and they do their thing for =
=3D
hours.=3DA0 it's a great "baby sitter" and my way of perhaps getting a kid =
ho=3D
oked on a really cool material.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0Anothing beats clay for getti=
ng a m=3D
ind to wander off in some creative direction.=3DA0 even better than paper a=
nd=3D
pensil to me.=3DA0 =3D0A=3D0ASteve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=3D0AClare=
mont, Ca=3D
lifornia USA=3D0AThe Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots! =3D0Awww.gra=
bers=3D
pottery.com steve@graberspottery.com =3D0A=3D0A=3D0AOn Laguna Clay's websit=
e=3D0Aht=3D
tp://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/ =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A----- Original Message -=
---=3D0A> =3D
From: Carol Casey =3D0A> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.OR=
G=3D
=3D0A> Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 5:47:28 AM=3D0A> Subject: Re: Children and=
cre=3D
ativity=3D0A> =3D0A> Hi, Phil, et al.,=3D0A=3D0AWell, we're all awake now. =
Thanks f=3D
or the musical =3D0A> interlude.=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
Carol Casey on thu 18 mar 10
I had forgotten about doing that, giving kids clay that is. One time a mom
and her son from the condo building I lived in had to spend some time at my
apartment (I think they locked themselves out?) I had some clay around and
he made the coolest little truck with tiny balls of clay in the back.
Thanks!
Carol
Canary Court
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:02 AM, steve graber wrote:
>
>
> growing up my mom gave me that plasticine clay she used to hold plastic
> flowers in store bought vases. (very ugly results by the way).
>
> it was the best thing she could have done and i swear she only did it
> i think out of boredom. we had little money and toys were scarce. at ag=
e 3
> and up i messed around with that clay making little men toys, cars, plane=
s,
> etc. eventually i did the required dinosaur kids like to make. etc... =
a
> little older i found clay in the backyard, made mud balls, and discovered
> pit firing when dad burned leaves would make really cool cannon balls we'=
d
> throw at each other the next day. (growing up involved a lot of throwing
> things at each other. we knew each other's backyard trees according to w=
hat
> could be used as a thrown item - berries - nuts - etc).
>
> now i make it a point to give little kids i know (none of my own, but
> nieces, nephews, etc) either a block of plasticine ($10 at the clay store=
)
> or a pile of "regular" clay. when friends come to my home to visit we
> usually set the kids up with a pile of clay and they do their thing for
> hours. it's a great "baby sitter" and my way of perhaps getting a kid
> hooked on a really cool material.
>
> nothing beats clay for getting a mind to wander off in some creative
> direction. even better than paper and pensil to me.
>
> Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
> Claremont, California USA
> The Steve Tool - for awesome texture on pots!
> www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
>
>
> On Laguna Clay's website
> http://www.lagunaclay.com/blogs/
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Carol Casey
> > To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 5:47:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: Children and creativity
> >
> > Hi, Phil, et al.,
>
> Well, we're all awake now. Thanks for the musical
> > interlude.
>
>
>
>
>
Marcia Selsor on thu 18 mar 10
I will repeat my suggestion at the beginning of this thread and that was =
=3D
recommending reading=3D20
Abraham Maslow's "Towards a Psychology of Being".
Marcia
On Mar 18, 2010, at 8:07 AM, John Hesselberth wrote:
> On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:30 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>=3D20
>> As is the case with art, how can there be a universally accepted =3D
definition
>> of creativity
>=3D20
>=3D20
> It might not be a perfect definition, but mine is "The ability to =3D
solve problems for which there is no well-known or widely accepted =3D
solution."
>=3D20
> For an artist the "problem" might be how to make a social statement in =
=3D
a meaningful way or how to portray the inner beauty of a drug addict or =3D
..........
>=3D20
> For an engineer the "problem" might be how to get 20% more =3D
productivity out of a manufacturing process.
>=3D20
> As long as you view "problem" in a broad way, I think this works =3D
pretty well--does for me anyhow. It is why I have always considered =3D
process engineers to be every bit as creative as research scientists or =3D
artists.
>=3D20
> Regards,
>=3D20
> John
>=3D20
>=3D20
> John Hesselberth
> john@frogpondpottery.com
>=3D20
> =3D93The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain =
=3D
the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible =3D
amount of hissing=3D94
>=3D20
> Jean Baptiste Colbert
>=3D20
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
Carol Casey on thu 18 mar 10
Yes, I couldn't find all those threads, so thanks for coming back in!
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Marcia Selsor wrote:
> I will repeat my suggestion at the beginning of this thread and that was
> recommending reading
> Abraham Maslow's "Towards a Psychology of Being".
> Marcia
> On Mar 18, 2010, at 8:07 AM, John Hesselberth wrote:
>
> > On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:30 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> >
> >> As is the case with art, how can there be a universally accepted
> definition
> >> of creativity
> >
> >
> > It might not be a perfect definition, but mine is "The ability to solve
> problems for which there is no well-known or widely accepted solution."
> >
> > For an artist the "problem" might be how to make a social statement in =
=3D
a
> meaningful way or how to portray the inner beauty of a drug addict or
> ..........
> >
> > For an engineer the "problem" might be how to get 20% more productivity
> out of a manufacturing process.
> >
> > As long as you view "problem" in a broad way, I think this works pretty
> well--does for me anyhow. It is why I have always considered process
> engineers to be every bit as creative as research scientists or artists.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > John Hesselberth
> > john@frogpondpottery.com
> >
> > =3D93The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain=
t=3D
he
> largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of
> hissing=3D94
> >
> > Jean Baptiste Colbert
> >
>
> Marcia Selsor
> http://www.marciaselsor.com
>
James Freeman on thu 18 mar 10
Education:
We often hear that schools don't teach, or that they exist to make us
into tools for industry, or that they don't reach creative kids, or
that standardized testing is ineffective, or other such criticisms. I
have noticed that such comments often come from former kids, or
parents of kids, who, while obviously intelligent, do not or did not
perform well academically. "My kid is smart; it's your test that is
bad". Perhaps half right. As a former kid who was quite creative,
and who also performed well academically without losing a bit of that
creativity, I hold a somewhat different view.
While those naturally predisposed to success in any given endeavor, be
it business, sports, school, or most anything else, just slide right
into place naturally, this does not preclude the rest of us from
similar success. Aside from the so-called naturals, I believe that
success, in school or otherwise, accrues to those who are able to
determine the role they must play in any given situation in order to
achieve success, and who possess the ability and willingness to play
that role. School and standardized testing in no way requires one to
become a robot or tool, but it does require one to at least play that
role in that situation. One may be a flaky, creative, rebellious
nonconformist, but if one has the ability and desire to play the
opposite role during school, one succeeds without ever abdicating any
of one's natural proclivities. Likewise in most other endeavors.
My best friend during my school days was incredibly intelligent, but
he never knew it, nor did his parents, nor did his teachers. He got
terrible grades and terrible test scores, and barely made it through
graduation. After bumbling around for a few years and failing at
everything he tried, he ended up joining the U.S. Navy, figuring he
would swab decks for a while and not have to deal with real life. The
Navy, to their credit, quickly recognized his innate intelligence
despite his previous lack of achievement and his own protestations.
They provided advanced training and sent him to universities all over
the country for select courses. He now designs bow thruster and
navigation systems for yachts, makes a very good living, and has a 36'
sailboat and a place in the country. His lack of success in school
was a result of either not being able to play the required role, or
simply believing he lacked the ability to play that role. He asked me
a couple of years ago why I didn't "make him" go to college after high
school. I told him that he would not have believed at the time that
he was capable of such. He lacked the ability to play the required
role.
Creativity:
I do not believe that the level of creativity or imagination is any
greater or lesser in children versus adults. I believe we each
possess whatever level of creativity the peculiar wiring of our
individual brain is capable of. Different folks think differently. I
believe that the seeming disparity between the level of creativity and
imagination expressed by children versus adults is rather a function
of inhibition. Children are the most marvelously uninhibited lot on
the planet. They will sing, or dance, or draw, or run naked through
the yard, without any thought whatsoever about decorum, expectations,
or what others may think. Children exist in the here-and-now. They
are absolutely free. I believe that most of us, as adults, entertain
an equal if not greater level of creativity or imagination, but our
societal conditioning precludes us from acting upon it except under
certain highly circumscribed conditions (and this, I believe, leads
inexorably toward neurosis, psychosis, and probably every other mental
"osis" or coping behavior one can name). "That's unseemly", "Nice
girls don't do that", "What will the neighbors think", "You are making
a fool of yourself", "You are setting a bad example", "That's too
weird", "That's dirty", "You are acting like a child", "You can't wear
stripes with plaid", "That's a sin", "Those don't go together", "You
are living in a fantasy world", "People just don't do things like
that"... Did I leave any out? Most every aspect of child rearing and
adult life seems focused on choking back and suppressing whatever
creative impulses we may have, but it cannot make them "go away".
The great French literary critic Charles Augustin Sainte-Beuve once
said, "With everyone born human, a poet - an artist - is born, who
dies young and who is survived by an adult."
Just another opinion, for what little it may be worth.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
Marcia Selsor on thu 18 mar 10
Very nicely put James.
I think one of the biggest challenges for the education system these =3D
days
is the industrialized appraoch and standardized testing. =3D
Teachers/administrators=3D20
must show the government local, state orf Federal their success. =3D
Otherwise they
lose funding and in some proposals their jobs. Teachers are teaching =3D
the testing=3D20
and that is all they have time to do. I think it is a disaster.
Marcia Selsor
On Mar 18, 2010, at 12:42 PM, James Freeman wrote:
> Education:
>=3D20
> We often hear that schools don't teach, or that they exist to make us
> into tools for industry, or that they don't reach creative kids, or
> that standardized testing is ineffective, or other such criticisms. I
> have noticed that such comments often come from former kids, or
> parents of kids, who, while obviously intelligent, do not or did not
> perform well academically. "My kid is smart; it's your test that is
> bad". Perhaps half right. As a former kid who was quite creative,
> and who also performed well academically without losing a bit of that
> creativity, I hold a somewhat different view.
>=3D20
> While those naturally predisposed to success in any given endeavor, be
> it business, sports, school, or most anything else, just slide right
> into place naturally, this does not preclude the rest of us from
> similar success. Aside from the so-called naturals, I believe that
> success, in school or otherwise, accrues to those who are able to
> determine the role they must play in any given situation in order to
> achieve success, and who possess the ability and willingness to play
> that role. School and standardized testing in no way requires one to
> become a robot or tool, but it does require one to at least play that
> role in that situation. One may be a flaky, creative, rebellious
> nonconformist, but if one has the ability and desire to play the
> opposite role during school, one succeeds without ever abdicating any
> of one's natural proclivities. Likewise in most other endeavors.
>=3D20
> My best friend during my school days was incredibly intelligent, but
> he never knew it, nor did his parents, nor did his teachers. He got
> terrible grades and terrible test scores, and barely made it through
> graduation. After bumbling around for a few years and failing at
> everything he tried, he ended up joining the U.S. Navy, figuring he
> would swab decks for a while and not have to deal with real life. The
> Navy, to their credit, quickly recognized his innate intelligence
> despite his previous lack of achievement and his own protestations.
> They provided advanced training and sent him to universities all over
> the country for select courses. He now designs bow thruster and
> navigation systems for yachts, makes a very good living, and has a 36'
> sailboat and a place in the country. His lack of success in school
> was a result of either not being able to play the required role, or
> simply believing he lacked the ability to play that role. He asked me
> a couple of years ago why I didn't "make him" go to college after high
> school. I told him that he would not have believed at the time that
> he was capable of such. He lacked the ability to play the required
> role.
>=3D20
> Creativity:
>=3D20
> I do not believe that the level of creativity or imagination is any
> greater or lesser in children versus adults. I believe we each
> possess whatever level of creativity the peculiar wiring of our
> individual brain is capable of. Different folks think differently. I
> believe that the seeming disparity between the level of creativity and
> imagination expressed by children versus adults is rather a function
> of inhibition. Children are the most marvelously uninhibited lot on
> the planet. They will sing, or dance, or draw, or run naked through
> the yard, without any thought whatsoever about decorum, expectations,
> or what others may think. Children exist in the here-and-now. They
> are absolutely free. I believe that most of us, as adults, entertain
> an equal if not greater level of creativity or imagination, but our
> societal conditioning precludes us from acting upon it except under
> certain highly circumscribed conditions (and this, I believe, leads
> inexorably toward neurosis, psychosis, and probably every other mental
> "osis" or coping behavior one can name). "That's unseemly", "Nice
> girls don't do that", "What will the neighbors think", "You are making
> a fool of yourself", "You are setting a bad example", "That's too
> weird", "That's dirty", "You are acting like a child", "You can't wear
> stripes with plaid", "That's a sin", "Those don't go together", "You
> are living in a fantasy world", "People just don't do things like
> that"... Did I leave any out? Most every aspect of child rearing and
> adult life seems focused on choking back and suppressing whatever
> creative impulses we may have, but it cannot make them "go away".
>=3D20
> The great French literary critic Charles Augustin Sainte-Beuve once
> said, "With everyone born human, a poet - an artist - is born, who
> dies young and who is survived by an adult."
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Just another opinion, for what little it may be worth.
>=3D20
> ...James
>=3D20
> James Freeman
>=3D20
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
> should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>=3D20
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
>=3D20
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
Carol Casey on thu 18 mar 10
James, et al.,
I know we all start from our own case, but I'm not sure we can all use our
own case as a model for the world. I agree that the world doesn't adjust
itself to us but there is something about "playing the role," that really
bothers me.
Carol
Canary Court
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:42 PM, James Freeman m
> wrote:
> Education:
>
> We often hear that schools don't teach, or that they exist to make us
> into tools for industry, or that they don't reach creative kids, or
> that standardized testing is ineffective, or other such criticisms. I
> have noticed that such comments often come from former kids, or
> parents of kids, who, while obviously intelligent, do not or did not
> perform well academically. "My kid is smart; it's your test that is
> bad". Perhaps half right. As a former kid who was quite creative,
> and who also performed well academically without losing a bit of that
> creativity, I hold a somewhat different view.
>
> While those naturally predisposed to success in any given endeavor, be
> it business, sports, school, or most anything else, just slide right
> into place naturally, this does not preclude the rest of us from
> similar success. Aside from the so-called naturals, I believe that
> success, in school or otherwise, accrues to those who are able to
> determine the role they must play in any given situation in order to
> achieve success, and who possess the ability and willingness to play
> that role. School and standardized testing in no way requires one to
> become a robot or tool, but it does require one to at least play that
> role in that situation. One may be a flaky, creative, rebellious
> nonconformist, but if one has the ability and desire to play the
> opposite role during school, one succeeds without ever abdicating any
> of one's natural proclivities. Likewise in most other endeavors.
>
> My best friend during my school days was incredibly intelligent, but
> he never knew it, nor did his parents, nor did his teachers. He got
> terrible grades and terrible test scores, and barely made it through
> graduation. After bumbling around for a few years and failing at
> everything he tried, he ended up joining the U.S. Navy, figuring he
> would swab decks for a while and not have to deal with real life. The
> Navy, to their credit, quickly recognized his innate intelligence
> despite his previous lack of achievement and his own protestations.
> They provided advanced training and sent him to universities all over
> the country for select courses. He now designs bow thruster and
> navigation systems for yachts, makes a very good living, and has a 36'
> sailboat and a place in the country. His lack of success in school
> was a result of either not being able to play the required role, or
> simply believing he lacked the ability to play that role. He asked me
> a couple of years ago why I didn't "make him" go to college after high
> school. I told him that he would not have believed at the time that
> he was capable of such. He lacked the ability to play the required
> role.
>
> Creativity:
>
> I do not believe that the level of creativity or imagination is any
> greater or lesser in children versus adults. I believe we each
> possess whatever level of creativity the peculiar wiring of our
> individual brain is capable of. Different folks think differently. I
> believe that the seeming disparity between the level of creativity and
> imagination expressed by children versus adults is rather a function
> of inhibition. Children are the most marvelously uninhibited lot on
> the planet. They will sing, or dance, or draw, or run naked through
> the yard, without any thought whatsoever about decorum, expectations,
> or what others may think. Children exist in the here-and-now. They
> are absolutely free. I believe that most of us, as adults, entertain
> an equal if not greater level of creativity or imagination, but our
> societal conditioning precludes us from acting upon it except under
> certain highly circumscribed conditions (and this, I believe, leads
> inexorably toward neurosis, psychosis, and probably every other mental
> "osis" or coping behavior one can name). "That's unseemly", "Nice
> girls don't do that", "What will the neighbors think", "You are making
> a fool of yourself", "You are setting a bad example", "That's too
> weird", "That's dirty", "You are acting like a child", "You can't wear
> stripes with plaid", "That's a sin", "Those don't go together", "You
> are living in a fantasy world", "People just don't do things like
> that"... Did I leave any out? Most every aspect of child rearing and
> adult life seems focused on choking back and suppressing whatever
> creative impulses we may have, but it cannot make them "go away".
>
> The great French literary critic Charles Augustin Sainte-Beuve once
> said, "With everyone born human, a poet - an artist - is born, who
> dies young and who is survived by an adult."
>
>
> Just another opinion, for what little it may be worth.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
> should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
>
James Freeman on thu 18 mar 10
Carol...
Yes, a bit Machiavellian, perhaps. "Playing the role" does not have
to be done consciously, and I would guess that in most cases it is a
purely subconscious act. In my own case, playing the role of "good
student" was done quite subconsciously during grade school and high
school, but quite consciously during college. Nonetheless, I do
believe it occurs fairly universally, and in more situations than we
may want to admit.
I heard an interview on the radio with, of all people, a porn actress
some time ago, a surprisingly intelligent and articulate woman. Can't
remember her name, nor where I heard it. She claimed to be a very shy
and inhibited person, who in ordinary life is too self-conscious to
indulge in her fantasies. She said that when she is in front of the
camera, it is not really "her" that is out there. She said that it is
a role that she plays, and that "she" is sitting quietly inside of
that person enjoying things that she would otherwise be unable to
bring herself to do.
Same story with the actress who played Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.
In real life she was a shy and unassuming person, but when wrapped in
the garb and persona of Elvira, she was someone completely different.
I think we all play roles when we have to or need to. I think in most
cases we slip effortlessly into them, not even realizing what is
occurring, possibly recognizing what happened only later (sometimes to
our embarrassment). I think we see this even on clayart. How often
are we told that someone, who comes across one way, is really someone
completely different when you meet them in person? As Dogbert said,
"On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog".
I'm pretty sure I was not using myself as a model of the world. I'll
have to give that some thought.
Just some idle thoughts.
Take care.
...James
James Freeman
"All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
-Michel de Montaigne
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Carol Casey wrote:
> James, et al.,
>
> I know we all start from our own case, but I'm not sure we can all use ou=
r
> own case as a model for the world. I agree that the world doesn't adjust
> itself to us but there is something about "playing the role," that really
> bothers me.
>
>
Beth Donovan on thu 18 mar 10
Testing bad?
I don't know. I'm 57 years old, and we had standardized testing in grade
school (a private girl's school) way back when. The Iowa Basics were a
yearly event. Standardized testing is nothing new, and if it will encourag=
e
schools to teach kids to read and understand what they read, and to be able
to write and understand math, I'm all for it. Not only that, but when it
came time to take the ACT and SAT, it was no big deal, none of us was
frightened or nervous or distraught about taking a test.
If teachers only have time to teach enough to do well on the Iowa Basics,
well, then, the kids are not in class for enough hours of the day, or the
teachers are not very organized. I was appalled when my son was in high
school - class started at 7:30 am, and they were out by 2:00 pm, and that
included gym class! When I went to high school, the day started at 8 am an=
d
lasted until 4:00 pm.
The problems with public school today does not come from testing kids, I'm
afraid.
Cheers,
Beth Donovan
Castle Argghhh! Farm
Easton, Kansas
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Marcia Selsor
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 1:44 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Children and creativity
Very nicely put James.
I think one of the biggest challenges for the education system these days
is the industrialized appraoch and standardized testing.
Teachers/administrators
must show the government local, state orf Federal their success. Otherwise
they
lose funding and in some proposals their jobs. Teachers are teaching the
testing
and that is all they have time to do. I think it is a disaster.
Marcia Selsor
On Mar 18, 2010, at 12:42 PM, James Freeman wrote:
> Education:
>
> We often hear that schools don't teach, or that they exist to make us
> into tools for industry, or that they don't reach creative kids, or
> that standardized testing is ineffective, or other such criticisms. I
> have noticed that such comments often come from former kids, or
> parents of kids, who, while obviously intelligent, do not or did not
> perform well academically. "My kid is smart; it's your test that is
> bad". Perhaps half right. As a former kid who was quite creative,
> and who also performed well academically without losing a bit of that
> creativity, I hold a somewhat different view.
>
> While those naturally predisposed to success in any given endeavor, be
> it business, sports, school, or most anything else, just slide right
> into place naturally, this does not preclude the rest of us from
> similar success. Aside from the so-called naturals, I believe that
> success, in school or otherwise, accrues to those who are able to
> determine the role they must play in any given situation in order to
> achieve success, and who possess the ability and willingness to play
> that role. School and standardized testing in no way requires one to
> become a robot or tool, but it does require one to at least play that
> role in that situation. One may be a flaky, creative, rebellious
> nonconformist, but if one has the ability and desire to play the
> opposite role during school, one succeeds without ever abdicating any
> of one's natural proclivities. Likewise in most other endeavors.
>
> My best friend during my school days was incredibly intelligent, but
> he never knew it, nor did his parents, nor did his teachers. He got
> terrible grades and terrible test scores, and barely made it through
> graduation. After bumbling around for a few years and failing at
> everything he tried, he ended up joining the U.S. Navy, figuring he
> would swab decks for a while and not have to deal with real life. The
> Navy, to their credit, quickly recognized his innate intelligence
> despite his previous lack of achievement and his own protestations.
> They provided advanced training and sent him to universities all over
> the country for select courses. He now designs bow thruster and
> navigation systems for yachts, makes a very good living, and has a 36'
> sailboat and a place in the country. His lack of success in school
> was a result of either not being able to play the required role, or
> simply believing he lacked the ability to play that role. He asked me
> a couple of years ago why I didn't "make him" go to college after high
> school. I told him that he would not have believed at the time that
> he was capable of such. He lacked the ability to play the required
> role.
>
> Creativity:
>
> I do not believe that the level of creativity or imagination is any
> greater or lesser in children versus adults. I believe we each
> possess whatever level of creativity the peculiar wiring of our
> individual brain is capable of. Different folks think differently. I
> believe that the seeming disparity between the level of creativity and
> imagination expressed by children versus adults is rather a function
> of inhibition. Children are the most marvelously uninhibited lot on
> the planet. They will sing, or dance, or draw, or run naked through
> the yard, without any thought whatsoever about decorum, expectations,
> or what others may think. Children exist in the here-and-now. They
> are absolutely free. I believe that most of us, as adults, entertain
> an equal if not greater level of creativity or imagination, but our
> societal conditioning precludes us from acting upon it except under
> certain highly circumscribed conditions (and this, I believe, leads
> inexorably toward neurosis, psychosis, and probably every other mental
> "osis" or coping behavior one can name). "That's unseemly", "Nice
> girls don't do that", "What will the neighbors think", "You are making
> a fool of yourself", "You are setting a bad example", "That's too
> weird", "That's dirty", "You are acting like a child", "You can't wear
> stripes with plaid", "That's a sin", "Those don't go together", "You
> are living in a fantasy world", "People just don't do things like
> that"... Did I leave any out? Most every aspect of child rearing and
> adult life seems focused on choking back and suppressing whatever
> creative impulses we may have, but it cannot make them "go away".
>
> The great French literary critic Charles Augustin Sainte-Beuve once
> said, "With everyone born human, a poet - an artist - is born, who
> dies young and who is survived by an adult."
>
>
> Just another opinion, for what little it may be worth.
>
> ...James
>
> James Freeman
>
> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
> should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
> -Michel de Montaigne
>
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
>
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
Marcia Selsor on thu 18 mar 10
I agree with you. The students should be in school longer.=3D20
But I still think the testing such as Teaching Assessment Knowledge and =3D
Skills tests are so formulated=3D20
and the results so critical to school funding that the teachers are =3D
forced to focus only on the content of those tests and nothing else.
Marcia
On Mar 18, 2010, at 3:46 PM, Beth Donovan wrote:
> Testing bad?
>=3D20
> I don't know. I'm 57 years old, and we had standardized testing in =3D
grade
> school (a private girl's school) way back when. The Iowa Basics were =3D
a
> yearly event. Standardized testing is nothing new, and if it will =3D
encourage
> schools to teach kids to read and understand what they read, and to be =
=3D
able
> to write and understand math, I'm all for it. Not only that, but when =
=3D
it
> came time to take the ACT and SAT, it was no big deal, none of us was
> frightened or nervous or distraught about taking a test.
>=3D20
> If teachers only have time to teach enough to do well on the Iowa =3D
Basics,
> well, then, the kids are not in class for enough hours of the day, or =3D
the
> teachers are not very organized. I was appalled when my son was in =3D
high
> school - class started at 7:30 am, and they were out by 2:00 pm, and =3D
that
> included gym class! When I went to high school, the day started at 8 =3D
am and
> lasted until 4:00 pm. =3D20
>=3D20
> The problems with public school today does not come from testing kids, =
=3D
I'm
> afraid. =3D20
>=3D20
>=3D20
> Cheers,
>=3D20
> Beth Donovan
> Castle Argghhh! Farm
> Easton, Kansas
>=3D20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Marcia =3D
Selsor
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 1:44 PM
> To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Children and creativity
>=3D20
> Very nicely put James.
> I think one of the biggest challenges for the education system these =3D
days
> is the industrialized appraoch and standardized testing.
> Teachers/administrators=3D20
> must show the government local, state orf Federal their success. =3D
Otherwise
> they
> lose funding and in some proposals their jobs. Teachers are teaching =3D
the
> testing=3D20
> and that is all they have time to do. I think it is a disaster.
> Marcia Selsor
> On Mar 18, 2010, at 12:42 PM, James Freeman wrote:
>=3D20
>> Education:
>>=3D20
>> We often hear that schools don't teach, or that they exist to make us
>> into tools for industry, or that they don't reach creative kids, or
>> that standardized testing is ineffective, or other such criticisms. =3D
I
>> have noticed that such comments often come from former kids, or
>> parents of kids, who, while obviously intelligent, do not or did not
>> perform well academically. "My kid is smart; it's your test that is
>> bad". Perhaps half right. As a former kid who was quite creative,
>> and who also performed well academically without losing a bit of that
>> creativity, I hold a somewhat different view.
>>=3D20
>> While those naturally predisposed to success in any given endeavor, =3D
be
>> it business, sports, school, or most anything else, just slide right
>> into place naturally, this does not preclude the rest of us from
>> similar success. Aside from the so-called naturals, I believe that
>> success, in school or otherwise, accrues to those who are able to
>> determine the role they must play in any given situation in order to
>> achieve success, and who possess the ability and willingness to play
>> that role. School and standardized testing in no way requires one to
>> become a robot or tool, but it does require one to at least play that
>> role in that situation. One may be a flaky, creative, rebellious
>> nonconformist, but if one has the ability and desire to play the
>> opposite role during school, one succeeds without ever abdicating any
>> of one's natural proclivities. Likewise in most other endeavors.
>>=3D20
>> My best friend during my school days was incredibly intelligent, but
>> he never knew it, nor did his parents, nor did his teachers. He got
>> terrible grades and terrible test scores, and barely made it through
>> graduation. After bumbling around for a few years and failing at
>> everything he tried, he ended up joining the U.S. Navy, figuring he
>> would swab decks for a while and not have to deal with real life. =3D
The
>> Navy, to their credit, quickly recognized his innate intelligence
>> despite his previous lack of achievement and his own protestations.
>> They provided advanced training and sent him to universities all over
>> the country for select courses. He now designs bow thruster and
>> navigation systems for yachts, makes a very good living, and has a =3D
36'
>> sailboat and a place in the country. His lack of success in school
>> was a result of either not being able to play the required role, or
>> simply believing he lacked the ability to play that role. He asked =3D
me
>> a couple of years ago why I didn't "make him" go to college after =3D
high
>> school. I told him that he would not have believed at the time that
>> he was capable of such. He lacked the ability to play the required
>> role.
>>=3D20
>> Creativity:
>>=3D20
>> I do not believe that the level of creativity or imagination is any
>> greater or lesser in children versus adults. I believe we each
>> possess whatever level of creativity the peculiar wiring of our
>> individual brain is capable of. Different folks think differently. =3D
I
>> believe that the seeming disparity between the level of creativity =3D
and
>> imagination expressed by children versus adults is rather a function
>> of inhibition. Children are the most marvelously uninhibited lot on
>> the planet. They will sing, or dance, or draw, or run naked through
>> the yard, without any thought whatsoever about decorum, expectations,
>> or what others may think. Children exist in the here-and-now. They
>> are absolutely free. I believe that most of us, as adults, entertain
>> an equal if not greater level of creativity or imagination, but our
>> societal conditioning precludes us from acting upon it except under
>> certain highly circumscribed conditions (and this, I believe, leads
>> inexorably toward neurosis, psychosis, and probably every other =3D
mental
>> "osis" or coping behavior one can name). "That's unseemly", "Nice
>> girls don't do that", "What will the neighbors think", "You are =3D
making
>> a fool of yourself", "You are setting a bad example", "That's too
>> weird", "That's dirty", "You are acting like a child", "You can't =3D
wear
>> stripes with plaid", "That's a sin", "Those don't go together", "You
>> are living in a fantasy world", "People just don't do things like
>> that"... Did I leave any out? Most every aspect of child rearing =3D
and
>> adult life seems focused on choking back and suppressing whatever
>> creative impulses we may have, but it cannot make them "go away".
>>=3D20
>> The great French literary critic Charles Augustin Sainte-Beuve once
>> said, "With everyone born human, a poet - an artist - is born, who
>> dies young and who is survived by an adult."
>>=3D20
>>=3D20
>> Just another opinion, for what little it may be worth.
>>=3D20
>> ...James
>>=3D20
>> James Freeman
>>=3D20
>> "All I say is by way of discourse, and nothing by way of advice. I
>> should not speak so boldly if it were my due to be believed."
>> -Michel de Montaigne
>>=3D20
>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesfreemanstudio/
>> http://www.jamesfreemanstudio.com/resources
>>=3D20
>=3D20
> Marcia Selsor
> http://www.marciaselsor.com
>=3D20
Marcia Selsor
http://www.marciaselsor.com
John Post on thu 18 mar 10
Teachers tend to talk too much. I walk past other classrooms on the
way to the lunchroom or bathroom during the day, and it is almost
always the teacher that is talking. Learning requires active
engagement. Regular classroom teachers could learn a lot from an art
room.
In art, the kids can't wait to get started and hate to put the tools
down to clean up. I can't say I see that same zeal in math or English
classes being taught.
One of the big differences is that in art the kids get to "DO"
something. In their other classes the doing is all abstract
reasoning. In art, the doing is also something they are interested in
right now, not something they have to tuck away in their brain to pass
a test later. This tucking things away for later is like storing
information in your brain like you are stock piling food in a freezer
for years. Freezer burn and wasted food pops into my mind.
In art classes, the concepts are hands-on and right now.
I watched a third grade teacher talking to the kids about rocks and
geology. She didn't hold up one rock, or even pass any around in
class, and yet she was supposedly teaching kids about rock
classifications. How hard would it be to teach third grade kids the
properties of rocks using some of the information shared on clay art
this last month? Yet there was the teacher talking to kids about
igneous rocks, sedimentary rocks etc. and thinking the kids were
learning something because they were filling out a worksheet.
I recently discussed with my 4th - 6th grade students what a critique
is. I had them come up to the dry erase board, choose any art work
made by another student and critique it by discussing these three
questions...
What is working in the art work?
What is not working in the art work?
What advice would you give this artist to improve it?
The kids were most often dead on in their critiques, saying just what
I as the teacher was thinking in my head. They gave each other great
feedback. This meant letting the kids talk for an entire class. I
was thinking that the kids might not be able to sit still for a
critique of everyone's work (they are just 8-12 year-olds) yet one kid
at the end of one of my classes said "This was really fun."
The most frequently asked question I get asked when a kid completes an
art assignment is "Is this good?"
During our critiques I told them that when they ask me that question,
they are asking me to make a value judgment about their art work. Do
I like it or not.
I told them, that I prefer to answer them using the three questions
above so that they get feedback that they can use as information.
If you have watched any American Idol this season, this is why Ellen
stinks as a judge and critique. She always says whether or not she
likes it. That doesn't give the performer any useful information. (I
mention this because my students instantly understand what a critique
is when I explain to them that this is what they do on American Idol.
I also tell them to watch and listen for what part is a useful
critique, and what part is just a value judgment of I like it or I
don't like it.)
Of course schools set kids up for the question "Is this good?" by
telling them how to do everything.
How to write their name on a paper, how to fill out the worksheet the
right way, what is good ditto coloring etc. Then when they grow up,
we want them to be creative and think on their own to solve problems.
My son's science teacher gave him a zero on a homework paper because
while he showed his work, and came up with the correct answers, he did
not arrive at the answers using the methodology his science teacher
specified for the class to use. What my kid learned through this is
"Don't think of a way to solve these problems on your own, just do it
the way we tell you." His science textbook was hard for him to
understand, so when when I was working with him on this homework
assignment, we went online, found formulas to use to solve the
problems and then he figured out how to apply them.
Note to self: do not use real world problem solving skills at school
unless directly specified by your teacher. Don't think on your own,
think how we tell you to think, so that you are quiet and can be
assimilated.
I can never attend NCECA because it conflicts with my teaching
calendar, but I don't imagine the clayart room to be a quiet place. I
imagine that all the learning and information that happens there is
exchanged with passion, excitement, enthusiasm and the requisite noise
that goes along with it.
Just think how much more learning could happen in the clayart room if
you guys all got to sit in rows and listen to someone else talk for
six hours a day....
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
:: youtube channel :: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrPostArtTeacher
phil on fri 19 mar 10
Hi James, Carol, all...
"The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes
longer."
- Edward R. Murrow
What is obvious to me, is that the true curriculum of 'education' is not
readin', writin' and 'rithmetic...
It is the schizogenic internalization of mechanized-compartmentalized
institutional mores and cynicisms, and productions of false 'self' for
becoming them personified.
The forms these assume, are myriad...and, displace, what otherwise may have
evolved and developed/proceded ingenuously.
One fundamental insult and cynicism toward Children, is the distrust,
denial, and degredation shown toward whatever would have evolved or
proceeded ingenuously...in order to coerce the transition/substitution.
Phil
Lv
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Freeman"
> Carol...
>
> Yes, a bit Machiavellian, perhaps. "Playing the role" does not have
> to be done consciously, and I would guess that in most cases it is a
> purely subconscious act. In my own case, playing the role of "good
> student" was done quite subconsciously during grade school and high
> school, but quite consciously during college. Nonetheless, I do
> believe it occurs fairly universally, and in more situations than we
> may want to admit.
>>>>> snip <<<<<
> James Freeman
Carol Casey on fri 19 mar 10
"Regular classroom teachers could learn a lot from an art room."
John,
Thanks for a detailed and encouraging response.
The quote from your response is one reason expressive arts are fundamental
to education, yet that idea is always under siege. Your description capture=
=3D
s
perfectly the problem: there are great teachers out there (I think you're
one and so many others on this list are, too), and in every topic, but
they're not always found in the same school at the same time, nor are they
always fostered. I had a friend who taught fifth grade language arts; his
classroom was like yours: he would set up the class and then the kids did
the talking. They were involved with their bodies, too, standing up, moving
around. His former students would sometimes take the time to write or call
and tell him that his class changed their lives, made them believe they
could do anything they set their sights on.
I'm not very good at thinking on my feet; my mind is more like an 8-ball:
turn the thing over and eventually something floats to the surface, so
excuse me if what follows doesn't quite get to the heart of truth. But I
think that making things out of clay, anything out of clay that comes
through the fire whole and beautiful (in that broad sense of beauty) calls
on skills, yes, but also demands and develops character: the clay makes the
potter in a way. And we have a lot of character (and characters) on this
list. The people on this list are as individual as their works, which is
such a rare and fine thing to encounter in life. I posted the original
question because I respect Clayarters' opinions not only on the technical
questions that we all get so much out of but also for your openness (and
closedness!) and your--sorry for what seems like a clich=3DE9--centeredness=
.
I hope I haven't offended in any way and I appreciate all the answers. Ever=
=3D
y
one.
Carol
Canary Court
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:26 PM, John Post wrot=
=3D
e:
> Teachers tend to talk too much. I walk past other classrooms on the
> way to the lunchroom or bathroom during the day, and it is almost
> always the teacher that is talking. Learning requires active
> engagement. Regular classroom teachers could learn a lot from an art
> room.
>
> In art, the kids can't wait to get started and hate to put the tools
> down to clean up. I can't say I see that same zeal in math or English
> classes being taught.
>
> One of the big differences is that in art the kids get to "DO"
> something. In their other classes the doing is all abstract
> reasoning. In art, the doing is also something they are interested in
> right now, not something they have to tuck away in their brain to pass
> a test later. This tucking things away for later is like storing
> information in your brain like you are stock piling food in a freezer
> for years. Freezer burn and wasted food pops into my mind.
>
> In art classes, the concepts are hands-on and right now.
>
> I watched a third grade teacher talking to the kids about rocks and
> geology. She didn't hold up one rock, or even pass any around in
> class, and yet she was supposedly teaching kids about rock
> classifications. How hard would it be to teach third grade kids the
> properties of rocks using some of the information shared on clay art
> this last month? Yet there was the teacher talking to kids about
> igneous rocks, sedimentary rocks etc. and thinking the kids were
> learning something because they were filling out a worksheet.
>
> I recently discussed with my 4th - 6th grade students what a critique
> is. I had them come up to the dry erase board, choose any art work
> made by another student and critique it by discussing these three
> questions...
>
> What is working in the art work?
> What is not working in the art work?
> What advice would you give this artist to improve it?
>
> The kids were most often dead on in their critiques, saying just what
> I as the teacher was thinking in my head. They gave each other great
> feedback. This meant letting the kids talk for an entire class. I
> was thinking that the kids might not be able to sit still for a
> critique of everyone's work (they are just 8-12 year-olds) yet one kid
> at the end of one of my classes said "This was really fun."
>
> The most frequently asked question I get asked when a kid completes an
> art assignment is "Is this good?"
>
> During our critiques I told them that when they ask me that question,
> they are asking me to make a value judgment about their art work. Do
> I like it or not.
>
> I told them, that I prefer to answer them using the three questions
> above so that they get feedback that they can use as information.
>
> If you have watched any American Idol this season, this is why Ellen
> stinks as a judge and critique. She always says whether or not she
> likes it. That doesn't give the performer any useful information. (I
> mention this because my students instantly understand what a critique
> is when I explain to them that this is what they do on American Idol.
> I also tell them to watch and listen for what part is a useful
> critique, and what part is just a value judgment of I like it or I
> don't like it.)
>
> Of course schools set kids up for the question "Is this good?" by
> telling them how to do everything.
>
> How to write their name on a paper, how to fill out the worksheet the
> right way, what is good ditto coloring etc. Then when they grow up,
> we want them to be creative and think on their own to solve problems.
>
> My son's science teacher gave him a zero on a homework paper because
> while he showed his work, and came up with the correct answers, he did
> not arrive at the answers using the methodology his science teacher
> specified for the class to use. What my kid learned through this is
> "Don't think of a way to solve these problems on your own, just do it
> the way we tell you." His science textbook was hard for him to
> understand, so when when I was working with him on this homework
> assignment, we went online, found formulas to use to solve the
> problems and then he figured out how to apply them.
>
> Note to self: do not use real world problem solving skills at school
> unless directly specified by your teacher. Don't think on your own,
> think how we tell you to think, so that you are quiet and can be
> assimilated.
>
> I can never attend NCECA because it conflicts with my teaching
> calendar, but I don't imagine the clayart room to be a quiet place. I
> imagine that all the learning and information that happens there is
> exchanged with passion, excitement, enthusiasm and the requisite noise
> that goes along with it.
>
> Just think how much more learning could happen in the clayart room if
> you guys all got to sit in rows and listen to someone else talk for
> six hours a day....
>
> John Post
> Sterling Heights, Michigan
>
> :: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
> :: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
> :: youtube channel :: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrPostArtTeacher
>
tony clennell on fri 19 mar 10
John: One year ya oughta have your school board send ya to Nceca. It
is afterall a conference on art education. I'd like to meet you. You
sound like a damn fine teacher.
cheers,
Tony
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:26 PM, John Post wro=
te:
> Teachers tend to talk too much. I walk past other classrooms on the
> way to the lunchroom or bathroom during the day, and it is almost
> always the teacher that is talking. Learning requires active
> engagement. Regular classroom teachers could learn a lot from an art
> room.
>
> In art, the kids can't wait to get started and hate to put the tools
> down to clean up. I can't say I see that same zeal in math or English
> classes being taught.
>
> One of the big differences is that in art the kids get to "DO"
> something. In their other classes the doing is all abstract
> reasoning. In art, the doing is also something they are interested in
> right now, not something they have to tuck away in their brain to pass
> a test later. This tucking things away for later is like storing
> information in your brain like you are stock piling food in a freezer
> for years. Freezer burn and wasted food pops into my mind.
>
> In art classes, the concepts are hands-on and right now.
>
> I watched a third grade teacher talking to the kids about rocks and
> geology. She didn't hold up one rock, or even pass any around in
> class, and yet she was supposedly teaching kids about rock
> classifications. How hard would it be to teach third grade kids the
> properties of rocks using some of the information shared on clay art
> this last month? Yet there was the teacher talking to kids about
> igneous rocks, sedimentary rocks etc. and thinking the kids were
> learning something because they were filling out a worksheet.
>
> I recently discussed with my 4th - 6th grade students what a critique
> is. I had them come up to the dry erase board, choose any art work
> made by another student and critique it by discussing these three
> questions...
>
> What is working in the art work?
> What is not working in the art work?
> What advice would you give this artist to improve it?
>
> The kids were most often dead on in their critiques, saying just what
> I as the teacher was thinking in my head. They gave each other great
> feedback. This meant letting the kids talk for an entire class. I
> was thinking that the kids might not be able to sit still for a
> critique of everyone's work (they are just 8-12 year-olds) yet one kid
> at the end of one of my classes said "This was really fun."
>
> The most frequently asked question I get asked when a kid completes an
> art assignment is "Is this good?"
>
> During our critiques I told them that when they ask me that question,
> they are asking me to make a value judgment about their art work. Do
> I like it or not.
>
> I told them, that I prefer to answer them using the three questions
> above so that they get feedback that they can use as information.
>
> If you have watched any American Idol this season, this is why Ellen
> stinks as a judge and critique. She always says whether or not she
> likes it. That doesn't give the performer any useful information. (I
> mention this because my students instantly understand what a critique
> is when I explain to them that this is what they do on American Idol.
> I also tell them to watch and listen for what part is a useful
> critique, and what part is just a value judgment of I like it or I
> don't like it.)
>
> Of course schools set kids up for the question "Is this good?" by
> telling them how to do everything.
>
> How to write their name on a paper, how to fill out the worksheet the
> right way, what is good ditto coloring etc. Then when they grow up,
> we want them to be creative and think on their own to solve problems.
>
> My son's science teacher gave him a zero on a homework paper because
> while he showed his work, and came up with the correct answers, he did
> not arrive at the answers using the methodology his science teacher
> specified for the class to use. What my kid learned through this is
> "Don't think of a way to solve these problems on your own, just do it
> the way we tell you." His science textbook was hard for him to
> understand, so when when I was working with him on this homework
> assignment, we went online, found formulas to use to solve the
> problems and then he figured out how to apply them.
>
> Note to self: do not use real world problem solving skills at school
> unless directly specified by your teacher. Don't think on your own,
> think how we tell you to think, so that you are quiet and can be
> assimilated.
>
> I can never attend NCECA because it conflicts with my teaching
> calendar, but I don't imagine the clayart room to be a quiet place. I
> imagine that all the learning and information that happens there is
> exchanged with passion, excitement, enthusiasm and the requisite noise
> that goes along with it.
>
> Just think how much more learning could happen in the clayart room if
> you guys all got to sit in rows and listen to someone else talk for
> six hours a day....
>
> John Post
> Sterling Heights, Michigan
>
> :: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
> :: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
> :: youtube channel :: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrPostArtTeacher
>
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
Carol Casey on fri 19 mar 10
Wow! Everything makes sense when it's in German.
Carol
Canary Court
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 12:27 AM, phil wrote:
> Hi Carol,
>
>
>
>
>
> You are welcome.
>
>
>
> Another angle...paralax...
>
>
> I love this little Video montage taken from the film 'Dark City'.
>
>
> "Shell Beach"
>
> It is always night, but, no one notices.
>
> The City has no 'end'...no matter where one goes, one is in the middle of
> it...and, one never goes anywhere, anyway...so...
>
> One never sleeps, one merely wakes up now and then, and, adjusts...
>
> Everyone has fond memories of Shell Beach, the Sunshine, the sweet Air, t=
=3D
he
> cooling Breezes.
>
> Most imagine themselves to retain a Post Card, a Momento, or, even a litt=
=3D
le
> ( empty ) Photo Album, of the good times they had there.
>
> Everyone knows how to get there, even if no one has been there in many
> years.
>
> If you want to know the way to find it, the way to get there, just
> ask...they'll tell you...
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D3DEV43aVP_DnA&feature=3D3Drelated
>
>
>
>
> Love,
>
>
> Phil
> Lv
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carol Casey
>
>
>
> Hi, Phil, et al.,
>
> Well, we're all awake now. Thanks for the musical interlude.
>
> Maybe as you've said we've moved from the original topic in part because
> it seems vast, big E Education, and we look for the tangible in the quest=
=3D
ion
> to hold on to: children (who are an important part of the original questi=
=3D
on)
> in association with another part of the question, creativity. It seemed t=
=3D
o
> me that Vince's response did address the question of education as well as
> the comments some other Clayarters' offered about the responsibility of
> individuals, teachers and parents, in fostering creativity in the process=
=3D
of
> educating their children.
>
> We also moved from the main topic because that's what happens in good
> conversation, too.
>
> Answering the question about education=3D97that keeps education Ph.D.s a=
nd
> Ed.D.s in business. Whether or not that's good is yet another question.
>
> Carol
> Canary Court
>
Beth Donovan on fri 19 mar 10
John,
I was very fortunate that the school I attended had teachers who actively
involved the students in pretty much every class. But, that was a private
school. I wonder if the public schools couldn't take a lesson from you.
I remember my 4th grade English teacher making a huge game out of
diagramming sentences. My 7th grade physical science teacher took us
outside and to the creek to look at and find and collect rocks.
How sad that this no longer happens!
Beth Donovan
Castle Argghhh! Farm
Easton, Kansas
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of John Post
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:27 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Children and creativity
Teachers tend to talk too much. I walk past other classrooms on the
way to the lunchroom or bathroom during the day, and it is almost
always the teacher that is talking. Learning requires active
engagement. Regular classroom teachers could learn a lot from an art
room.
In art, the kids can't wait to get started and hate to put the tools
down to clean up. I can't say I see that same zeal in math or English
classes being taught.
One of the big differences is that in art the kids get to "DO"
something. In their other classes the doing is all abstract
reasoning. In art, the doing is also something they are interested in
right now, not something they have to tuck away in their brain to pass
a test later. This tucking things away for later is like storing
information in your brain like you are stock piling food in a freezer
for years. Freezer burn and wasted food pops into my mind.
In art classes, the concepts are hands-on and right now.
I watched a third grade teacher talking to the kids about rocks and
geology. She didn't hold up one rock, or even pass any around in
class, and yet she was supposedly teaching kids about rock
classifications. How hard would it be to teach third grade kids the
properties of rocks using some of the information shared on clay art
this last month? Yet there was the teacher talking to kids about
igneous rocks, sedimentary rocks etc. and thinking the kids were
learning something because they were filling out a worksheet.
I recently discussed with my 4th - 6th grade students what a critique
is. I had them come up to the dry erase board, choose any art work
made by another student and critique it by discussing these three
questions...
What is working in the art work?
What is not working in the art work?
What advice would you give this artist to improve it?
The kids were most often dead on in their critiques, saying just what
I as the teacher was thinking in my head. They gave each other great
feedback. This meant letting the kids talk for an entire class. I
was thinking that the kids might not be able to sit still for a
critique of everyone's work (they are just 8-12 year-olds) yet one kid
at the end of one of my classes said "This was really fun."
The most frequently asked question I get asked when a kid completes an
art assignment is "Is this good?"
During our critiques I told them that when they ask me that question,
they are asking me to make a value judgment about their art work. Do
I like it or not.
I told them, that I prefer to answer them using the three questions
above so that they get feedback that they can use as information.
If you have watched any American Idol this season, this is why Ellen
stinks as a judge and critique. She always says whether or not she
likes it. That doesn't give the performer any useful information. (I
mention this because my students instantly understand what a critique
is when I explain to them that this is what they do on American Idol.
I also tell them to watch and listen for what part is a useful
critique, and what part is just a value judgment of I like it or I
don't like it.)
Of course schools set kids up for the question "Is this good?" by
telling them how to do everything.
How to write their name on a paper, how to fill out the worksheet the
right way, what is good ditto coloring etc. Then when they grow up,
we want them to be creative and think on their own to solve problems.
My son's science teacher gave him a zero on a homework paper because
while he showed his work, and came up with the correct answers, he did
not arrive at the answers using the methodology his science teacher
specified for the class to use. What my kid learned through this is
"Don't think of a way to solve these problems on your own, just do it
the way we tell you." His science textbook was hard for him to
understand, so when when I was working with him on this homework
assignment, we went online, found formulas to use to solve the
problems and then he figured out how to apply them.
Note to self: do not use real world problem solving skills at school
unless directly specified by your teacher. Don't think on your own,
think how we tell you to think, so that you are quiet and can be
assimilated.
I can never attend NCECA because it conflicts with my teaching
calendar, but I don't imagine the clayart room to be a quiet place. I
imagine that all the learning and information that happens there is
exchanged with passion, excitement, enthusiasm and the requisite noise
that goes along with it.
Just think how much more learning could happen in the clayart room if
you guys all got to sit in rows and listen to someone else talk for
six hours a day....
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
:: youtube channel :: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrPostArtTeacher
Snail Scott on mon 22 mar 10
On Mar 18, 2010, at 12:42 PM, James Freeman wrote:
> ... Children are the most marvelously uninhibited lot on
> the planet. They will sing, or dance, or draw, or run naked through
> the yard, without any thought whatsoever about decorum, expectations,
> or what others may think. Children exist in the here-and-now. They
> are absolutely free. I believe that most of us, as adults, entertain
> an equal if not greater level of creativity or imagination, but our
> societal conditioning precludes us from acting upon it...
Children can be very free, but children have also
evolved to learn from those around them how
to behave. They will often prefer to mimic the
actions of others rather than 'do their own thing',
and not just because someone is telling them to.
It's in our DNA to do that; it keeps us alive as a
social species.
Non-inhibition of creativity by those around us is
one prerequisite to creativity, I think, but only one.
Creativity requires some mental tools to extend
our vision of what's possible, and that requires
some life experience, too. Some children are
insistent that there is only one right way to do
something, because it is the only way they have
encountered thus far in their lives. Adults have, in
many respects, a greater capacity than children for
creative thought, because we have more knowledge
to build on. We have heard of more ideas, and have
more ways to modify and combine those ideas, and
all those ideas leads us to suspect that maybe there
are even more out there...
Studies of child prodigies have observed that such
children usually have a masterful technique, but far
fewer are capable of really creative interpretation.
They have learned a particular way of working very
well indeed - even 'average' children are adept at
learning new skills - but are not yet equipped to find
new ways of working.
Creativity cannot happen in an experiential vacuum,
and adults simply have more raw material to work
with, IF they are inclined to. Adults are also aware
of the social pressures of conformity, and are thus
in a better position to see and recognize this, and
then choose. Some choose conformity, but so do
many children, without any prompting at all.
-Snail
| |
|
