John Rodgers on sun 22 dec 02
I find I need to say a little more about BFA's, and MFA's myself even
though I have neither. There are interesting issues.
Advanced education really does have two goals. 1), life enrichment; 2,
Preparation to enter the world of work, hopefully at better than minimum
wage.
Years ago, I decided that I wanted to acquire an FAA Licensed Aircraft
Mechanics Certification. There were two ways to go. 1) work in the
trades for 3 years, then take and pass the appropriate certification
tests; or,2) participate in an organized program at a school that was
certified by the FAA. These were generally a 1 year program, at the end
of which one was eligible to take the appropriate certification
examinations.
I chose the latter, and became certified right after graduation. My
number one instructor congratulated me, then issued a caution, lest I
think to much of myself for my acheivement. " You are now sufficiently
trained to begin in a shop as an apprentice, and not be dangerous to
others working with you or endangering an airplane!" To use an old
expression, I was taken down a peg or two. It was clear I would have to
pay my dues before I arrived at a point where I really was an Aircraft
Mechanic in the truest sense. I have thought about that often in my
life, and it has been my guide when beginning anything new.
The point here is that one can step out and begin a career by working
directly in the field of choice and over time accumulate the knowledge,
skill, and experience necessary to be sucessful. It is just that it will
be a long roe to hoe before arriving at the top in the field. On the
other hand, one can attend a school with a well organized and presented
program, and get a cross section of knowledge, skill, and experience
compressed into a relatively short period of time. And the time savings
is always to ones advantage when running the race to financial success.
The decision as to which way to go is your own. And there are a lot of
reasons one can have to go either way.
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
Vince Pitelka wrote:
>>Here is my thought on higher education(BFA's, MFA's)...especially in the
>>field of pottery...and this is only my opinion. It's a waste of time and
>>money!
>>
>>
>
>Steve -
>I readily accept and appreciate your opinion, and the fact that you found
>your own way effectively without a BFA or MFA. But once again, for the
>benefit of others considering the option of higher education, it is
>important to point out that the primary purpose of a BFA or MFA or any
>higher education is not career training, but life enrichment. Higher
>education can enrich and enhance everything you do in your life for the rest
>of your life. How can you put a price on that?
>
>As I have said repeatedly, higher education is only one of many paths to
>life enrichment, and in this case, to artistic proficiency. But for many
>people, it is the most practical and productive path. A college education,
>completed with proactive enthusiasm and curiosity, packs a great deal of
>learning and experience into a short period of time. In terms of short-term
>and long-term benefits, it is a tremendous bargain no matter how much time
>and money are involved.
>
>But back to your specific point. Practically speaking, if the right degree
>program is selected, a BFA or MFA degree is a fantastic way to train to be a
>professional potter. In our program at the Tennessee Tech University's
>Appalachian Center for Crafts (go to http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/ for
>more info) the student who completes a BFA degree will be comfortable with a
>broad range of forming, decorating, and firing processes, all kinds of kilns
>and ceramic equipment, and basic exhibition and marketing strategies, and
>they will have identified and pursued a primary direction in their work. My
>objective is to see every student become autonomous and self-directed in the
>studio, so that they can make career choices with confidence. These things
>are very difficult to achieve outside of academia.
>
>In pursuing higher education, the secret is to find the right program -
>i.e., one that truly meshes with the student's educational objectives.
>Best wishes -
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
>615/597-5376
>Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
>615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
>http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Steve Dalton on sun 22 dec 02
Greetings,
Here is my thought on higher education(BFA's, MFA's)...especially in the
field of pottery...and this is only my opinion. It's a waste of time and
money!
When I took my first class, I was hooked. I was in a community college
working towards drawing and painting. My design teacher, who also taught
ceramics, talked me into taking a class. The rest is history.
I decided from that moment on, I wanted to be a potter. Nothing more,
nothing less. I wanted to make pots on the wheel. I thought about going on
to get something more than an AAS, but I asked myself...why?
I don't need a piece of paper with a massive student loan, saying that I am
able to make a pot.
--
Steve Dalton
Clear Creek Pottery
Snohomish, Wa
www.clearcreekpottery.com
sdpotter@gte.net
Vince Pitelka on sun 22 dec 02
> Here is my thought on higher education(BFA's, MFA's)...especially in the
> field of pottery...and this is only my opinion. It's a waste of time and
> money!
Steve -
I readily accept and appreciate your opinion, and the fact that you found
your own way effectively without a BFA or MFA. But once again, for the
benefit of others considering the option of higher education, it is
important to point out that the primary purpose of a BFA or MFA or any
higher education is not career training, but life enrichment. Higher
education can enrich and enhance everything you do in your life for the rest
of your life. How can you put a price on that?
As I have said repeatedly, higher education is only one of many paths to
life enrichment, and in this case, to artistic proficiency. But for many
people, it is the most practical and productive path. A college education,
completed with proactive enthusiasm and curiosity, packs a great deal of
learning and experience into a short period of time. In terms of short-term
and long-term benefits, it is a tremendous bargain no matter how much time
and money are involved.
But back to your specific point. Practically speaking, if the right degree
program is selected, a BFA or MFA degree is a fantastic way to train to be a
professional potter. In our program at the Tennessee Tech University's
Appalachian Center for Crafts (go to http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/ for
more info) the student who completes a BFA degree will be comfortable with a
broad range of forming, decorating, and firing processes, all kinds of kilns
and ceramic equipment, and basic exhibition and marketing strategies, and
they will have identified and pursued a primary direction in their work. My
objective is to see every student become autonomous and self-directed in the
studio, so that they can make career choices with confidence. These things
are very difficult to achieve outside of academia.
In pursuing higher education, the secret is to find the right program -
i.e., one that truly meshes with the student's educational objectives.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Carol Ross on sun 22 dec 02
I've been following this thread, but haven't read every post. If I'm
treading tired territory, I apologize, but Vince's reply said much of what
I've been thinking... But not everything
I started my BFA when I was 45 years old. It was the thing I thought I
could never do and doing it meant everything to me. Without that piece of
paper - and the time spent - I wouldn't have had the courage to BE the
artist that I am. For whatever reason, I NEEDED the acceptance & validation
of my peers and instructors. College brought that to me, along with a few
heartbreaking crits, incredibly hard work and the conviction that I would do
this...
I decided to "waste" more time and money and get my MFA... No it's not the
path for everyone and there were days when I doubted it was mine... But now,
with some distance and perspective, I'm beginning to see the value of that
brief (only 2 years!) program. I learned how to find things out... How to
explore and push my work... How to get this close to giving up in utter
frustration and hopelessness, go home and come back the next morning with a
revised plan and new energy. I gained insight into my process and the way
in which I create because of the intensity (and luxury!) of that time and
experience.
My life has been immeasurably enriched... So, Steve, don't knock it if you
haven't tried it.
Carol Ross
carolross@charter.net
>> Here is my thought on higher education(BFA's, MFA's)...especially in the
>> field of pottery...and this is only my opinion. It's a waste of time and
>> money!
>
> Steve -
> I readily accept and appreciate your opinion, and the fact that you found
> your own way effectively without a BFA or MFA. But once again, for the
> benefit of others considering the option of higher education, it is
> important to point out that the primary purpose of a BFA or MFA or any
> higher education is not career training, but life enrichment. Higher
> education can enrich and enhance everything you do in your life for the rest
> of your life. How can you put a price on that?
>
> As I have said repeatedly, higher education is only one of many paths to
> life enrichment, and in this case, to artistic proficiency. But for many
> people, it is the most practical and productive path. A college education,
> completed with proactive enthusiasm and curiosity, packs a great deal of
> learning and experience into a short period of time. In terms of short-term
> and long-term benefits, it is a tremendous bargain no matter how much time
> and money are involved.
>
> But back to your specific point. Practically speaking, if the right degree
> program is selected, a BFA or MFA degree is a fantastic way to train to be a
> professional potter. In our program at the Tennessee Tech University's
> Appalachian Center for Crafts (go to http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/ for
> more info) the student who completes a BFA degree will be comfortable with a
> broad range of forming, decorating, and firing processes, all kinds of kilns
> and ceramic equipment, and basic exhibition and marketing strategies, and
> they will have identified and pursued a primary direction in their work. My
> objective is to see every student become autonomous and self-directed in the
> studio, so that they can make career choices with confidence. These things
> are very difficult to achieve outside of academia.
>
> In pursuing higher education, the secret is to find the right program -
> i.e., one that truly meshes with the student's educational objectives.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Crafts
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Jeremy McLeod on mon 23 dec 02
David Beumee wrote:
> AND BASIC EXHIBITION AND MARKETING STRATEGIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> HOOORAY VINCE! HOOOORAY APPALACHIAN CENTER !
>
> BRAVO !
But, David, please tell us how you *really* feel!
:-)
Jeremy McLeod
Ilene Richardson on mon 23 dec 02
Higher education IS a life enrichment... Vince put it perfectly. So
many look to college as a career maker, when actually we already have
that ability within us. College is a path finder, a step to what we
want in life. To learn the concepts, theories and techniques of art
making is something to obtain at a college level where you interact with
many professors and find one or two who can speak to your soul and
kindle the self direction and motivation within us. To learn of the
artists in the past and study their works, their lives and what caused
them to create is something most people know nothing about. That was so
enriching for me... to learn about the creativity of others... and touch
it within myself. HIgher education in a college that has an active art
department, or in my case was an art college, (The Maryland Institute,
College of Art) is the perfect way to go. Yes the expense is horrible,
but you cannot get that one to one connection with an artist who is
proficient in his craft without college these days.
When I am not creating, I feel like a hollow shell. Art keeps me
sane and this is something I cannot explain to anyone who isn't an
artist of some sort. Creating artwork is meditative, self soothing,
enriching and always a learning process. Art keeps me in touch with
myself and it helps define who I am. I used to complain soooooo much
because I have huge, absolutely huge student loans to pay back until I'm
60 years old! But, without that education behind me I wouldn't be the
professional artist that I am... I wouldn't have that knowledge of
techniques and theories and artists past. That's not to say I wouldn't
have reached the place I am now, and certainly many years later, college
is a path in life that I took which led to self-development of my artist
within.
When you read of the old masters and other artists, they always
studied under someone else.... wasn't that their form of higher education?
When you go to an art festival, show, etc.... it is always evident
which person's work has an art education behind them. At least for the
ones I have been to, which include the little dippy ones on the Eastern
Shore of Maryland and the big ones like Sugarloaf Mountain Crafts. The
person who has formal education from an art school stands out in the
crowd, their work is different... (I know I'll catch hell for this one,
go ahead I can take it).. their choice of colors, their color
relationships, their display of the work, is different. I speak of fine
arts like painting, lithography, drawing.... and yes clay. But for me,
it is much more evident in the first three fine arts. I usually test
myself and just come out and ask, "Where did you go to school?" and I am
always receiving a reply that names a college. Every single time. This
is not to say you cannot become an artist without higher education,
certainly you can, and will. However, the path is much more enriching
and of greater speed and self growth if you get out of the isolative
environment of our studios and into the college level. Nowhere else
will you be forced to look at yourself, your work, and your own
creativity... your motivations and at the same time learn what the old
masters and others had to teach us. Its not an easy road, but I
wouldn't trade it for anything. College changes the way you look at
everything, once you immerse yourself in art courses, you cannot have a
conversation with someone without drawing them in your mind, seeing the
reflections on their face, the contour of their faces, the lights,
shadows,.... please stop me. I'm always drawing in my mind, I see lines
and shapes that speak to me all the time.
I was a sucker for school, I later went for my masters degree.. I
needed more student loans, .. in Art Therapy, at Eastern Virginia
Medical School. Now I really will be 60, really when they are paid
off, (loans). However, after ten years in mental health, I'm not
certain who is in need of desperate help, the patients or the
administration, so last year I quit. I will never go back. But.. what I
learned about art and creativity( while getting my masters degree) is
something that for me is invaluable.
I've been making art for over a year, and as you all know...I'm
building an art studio next to my home....(thank you for your help). I
am confident in my decisions, excited about making artwork (stained
glass and pottery) full time and so very gratefull for all of my higher
education and the enriching experiences over the years. My favorite is
a professor, years ago now, he didn't have any grey hair then... Raoul
Middleman, check out his website, a full time painter, an artist like no
other I've met, he lives and breathes painting, his thoughts and
comments are always about painters from the past and when I was with him
in the very late 70's I sucked in his every word. He was an never
ending a source of knowledge, creative energy that was overflowing, and
an excellent teacher. Ask anyone that studied under him, it was an
experience you will never forget.... and its one I always remember with
a smile. The professors give their all to the students and if you are
open and want personal growth, you will experience it more than you ever
could imagine.
Higher education, not for everyone, but it certainly changed my life
and I will always be grateful.
Ilene Richardson
David Beumee on mon 23 dec 02
12/22/02, Vince wrote,
In our program at the Tennessee Tech University's
>Appalachian Center for Crafts (go to http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/ for
>more info) the student who completes a BFA degree will be comfortable with a
>broad range of forming, decorating, and firing processes, all kinds of kilns
>and ceramic equipment, and basic exhibition and marketing strategies, and
>they will have identified and pursued a primary direction in their work.
AND BASIC EXHIBITION AND MARKETING STRATEGIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOOORAY VINCE! HOOOORAY APPALACHIAN CENTER !
BRAVO !
David Beumee
Earth Alchemy Pottery
Lafayette, CO
12/22/02 6:16:40 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
>> Here is my thought on higher education(BFA's, MFA's)...especially in the
>> field of pottery...and this is only my opinion. It's a waste of time and
>> money!
>
>Steve -
>I readily accept and appreciate your opinion, and the fact that you found
>your own way effectively without a BFA or MFA. But once again, for the
>benefit of others considering the option of higher education, it is
>important to point out that the primary purpose of a BFA or MFA or any
>higher education is not career training, but life enrichment. Higher
>education can enrich and enhance everything you do in your life for the rest
>of your life. How can you put a price on that?
>
>As I have said repeatedly, higher education is only one of many paths to
>life enrichment, and in this case, to artistic proficiency. But for many
>people, it is the most practical and productive path. A college education,
>completed with proactive enthusiasm and curiosity, packs a great deal of
>learning and experience into a short period of time. In terms of short-term
>and long-term benefits, it is a tremendous bargain no matter how much time
>and money are involved.
>
>But back to your specific point. Practically speaking, if the right degree
>program is selected, a BFA or MFA degree is a fantastic way to train to be a
>professional potter. My
>objective is to see every student become autonomous and self-directed in the
>studio, so that they can make career choices with confidence. These things
>are very difficult to achieve outside of academia.
>
>In pursuing higher education, the secret is to find the right program -
>i.e., one that truly meshes with the student's educational objectives.
>Best wishes -
>- Vince
>
>Vince Pitelka
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
>615/597-5376
>Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
>615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
>http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Dean Walker on tue 24 dec 02
Good point, Earl. Anything can be considered when selecting sources when
you are trying to educate yourself on a skill or process. Even college
classes if you have the time and money for them. They are a perfectly
legitimate tool to get the information you need. Sometimes it's like buying
a ticket to Dallas and ending up in Dimebox. Like anything else !
Dean
Earl Brunner on tue 24 dec 02
I agree with Vince on this. He is not putting down people that choose an
alternative path, and I think that what he IS saying here about finding a program
that FITS you as an individual is the real key. If it obviously isn't going to
take you where you want to go, then it will be a waste of time. However a good
program done well, will reap all sorts of benefits. Just like throwing a thousand
of something, it's the the work, and the discipline and the effort that will cause
the growth. You get out of anything, exactly what you put into it. You can even
get something out of your struggle with a "bad" program.
I worry about some of the people I teach in the City Arts/Recreation format. Some
of them really have the clay "bug". But they have no art background, no design
background. On top of the basic pottery skills that they have to acquire, they
also have to learn some basics about proportion, color, texture etc. And some of
them don't understand why they need to. But I've seen some real growth in a couple
of individuals when the instructor has nudged them out of their comfort zone.
Vince Pitelka wrote:
> > Here is my thought on higher education(BFA's, MFA's)...especially in the
> > field of pottery...and this is only my opinion. It's a waste of time and
> > money!
>
> Steve -
> I readily accept and appreciate your opinion, and the fact that you found
> your own way effectively without a BFA or MFA. But once again, for the
> benefit of others considering the option of higher education, it is
> important to point out that the primary purpose of a BFA or MFA or any
> higher education is not career training, but life enrichment. Higher
> education can enrich and enhance everything you do in your life for the rest
> of your life. How can you put a price on that?
>
> As I have said repeatedly, higher education is only one of many paths to
> life enrichment, and in this case, to artistic proficiency. But for many
> people, it is the most practical and productive path. A college education,
> completed with proactive enthusiasm and curiosity, packs a great deal of
> learning and experience into a short period of time. In terms of short-term
> and long-term benefits, it is a tremendous bargain no matter how much time
> and money are involved.
>
> But back to your specific point. Practically speaking, if the right degree
> program is selected, a BFA or MFA degree is a fantastic way to train to be a
> professional potter. In our program at the Tennessee Tech University's
> Appalachian Center for Crafts (go to http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/ for
> more info) the student who completes a BFA degree will be comfortable with a
> broad range of forming, decorating, and firing processes, all kinds of kilns
> and ceramic equipment, and basic exhibition and marketing strategies, and
> they will have identified and pursued a primary direction in their work. My
> objective is to see every student become autonomous and self-directed in the
> studio, so that they can make career choices with confidence. These things
> are very difficult to achieve outside of academia.
>
> In pursuing higher education, the secret is to find the right program -
> i.e., one that truly meshes with the student's educational objectives.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
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