primalmommy on mon 23 dec 02
My friend Denise Fleming, who makes wonderful, internationally known
children's books out of handmade paper (In the tall tall grass, by the
small small pond, where once there was a wood) says she can tell how
good a mom you are by whether you let your kids use glitter... for those
who are not in a house with kids (or haven't been for years) -- a
refresher: glitter distributes itself almost magically to the four
corners of the earth, is impossible to vacuum out of carpet, and will
appear for months afterward as a single sparkle on someone's cheek, or
clothes, or hair... parents who say "damn the torpedoes, full speed
ahead" -- or get out the paints-- or otherwise let art win out over
order.. make Denise's "A" list...
I would take it even a step farther and say that living a LIFE "outside
the lines" -- and allowing kids to do the same --- is as important as
allowing for creativity in that small category we call "art". Adults
know that there is artistry in baking bread, in dressing oneself, in
gardening/landscaping, in celebrating our culture's rituals, in fixing a
tractor, in the simplest things we do with hands and minds. For kids,
art can be a compartmentalized thing, a 40 minute class, something you
sit down at a table to do. If the rest of life is ruled and regimented,
it can be hard to shift gears, think independently and "color outside
the lines" when the bell rings. At a young age, kids quickly learn the
symbol for "tree" and "person" and "house" and draw these same generic
symbols over and over, bypassing the whole haptic experience of art and
rushing to copy and do it the representational "right way"... god save
us from well meaning adults saying "what IS it?" or "No, make it like
THIS"...
We tell kids "be free" but unless we live the example, it's hard for
them to feel they have permission. My friend Monica (pregnant with her
9th, homebirthed and homeschooled) let her kids paint the piano, paint
faux-stained-glass scenes on the windows... she does the same herself,
painting undersea murals in the kids' bunk bed room, always something
new. Last time I was there the "border" on the kitchen wall was a
timeline -- to scale --of the history of human civilization...
If you are comfortable living outside the lines, your kids will learn
first hand that it's OK to be in the minority. We're the mini farm with
dandelions in the middle of the uniform suburbs, the folks with diapers
on the line when "everybody" uses disposables... the kids who don't get
on the bus when "everybody" goes to school... I don't get into judging
the choices of others or condemning the schools, when my kids ask I just
say "because it's how we choose to do it." My kids don't know sponge bob
square pants from a rug rat... but they are avid readers with wonderful
imaginations. One world, many paths.
It's good for adults, too, to expand their canvas to include all of
life... maybe the kind of art that makes a statement (I had an old
boyfriend who hung christmas lights on his apartment railing spelling
out the words "buy things") or the kind that's just a whim (I just
strung the ceiling of my sick 4 year old's room with twinkly leftover
christmas lights, for "stars"... ) For Christmas she wants to be a
kitty... so I got a grey sweatsuit and sewed on ears and tail for her.
She will want to wear it day and night, to the store and to church... we
will let her.
When we venture outside the lines, we give other adults permission to do
the same... even just a little. The bright purple house on a downtown
street, alarming as it is, gives others permission to paint a door their
favorite color or plant something dramatic in the front yard... Whenever
we live the example of "why be normal" we inspire others to live larger,
take chances, look silly, express their differences.
Kids still question the status quo, and that's to be valued. Can I sleep
in a hammock in my room instead of a bed? Sure. Can you make my pancake
shaped like a glyptodon? I can try. Can we plant a coconut in Ohio?
Let's try it and see what happens. When my hubby and I try some grand
creative plan and it's a real boner... we sit back and laugh, make fun
of ourselves and each other, then do it over a different way. That's all
part of "art class".
Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it.. for us it means going to my
Mom and Dad's for the annual Festival of Wretched Excess.... tree
obscured by overindulgent gifts, christmas eve lobster and ceasar,
christmas morning eggs benedict and champagne mimosas, and then the
table-groaning spread of christmas dinner, standing rib roast and Ohio
tomato pudding, creamed pearl onions, roasted root veggies and some
decadent dessert... it humbles our own tree, handmade gifts and simple
approach but they are ours and therefore meaningful and comforting...
I will think of you all, and whatever holidays you celebrate... I will
think of Mama Luce when I make the buttermilk pie.. Jeff's making Rick
Bowman's chocolate chip cheesecake...I will think of Tony when dad's
beagles lie, farting, on the hearth ;0)
good solstice, good new year, good kwaanza, bright blessings to
clayarters everywhere...
Yours, Kelly... with the third child now huddled by the fire next to a
barf bucket... methinks there will be leftovers at grandma's table this
week... off to wash still more bedding...
_______________________________________________________________
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Richard Whittaker on mon 23 dec 02
Kelly's post, which should be required reading for elementary art school
teachers, reminded me of something my friend Jane Rosen said. Jane teaches
drawing at UC Berkeley and tape recorded one of her classes for me. [I
published the transcript] Jane has a sense of humor, and is a very keen
observer. She was talking to her university drawing class and said, "When
you're very little you draw an apple like this. You see the apple and you
go [makes a series of emphatic circle lines] Apple! Now your teacher comes
along, darling that she or he is, and says, 'No! Apples look like this!'
and the teacher draws the standard apple symbol. You learn to draw the
symbol. You draw your house or your mother-'Mom has aahlaaawtt of hair! Her
legs are very loooong.' You draw what you see. The teacher comes along. 'No
Johnny! No Janet! Skirts look like this!' [trapezoid] Houses look like this
[triangle on top of square] You learn to draw symbols. Now we know how to
go to the ladies room. You'd be amazed how often I confuse that, because I
wear pants!"
Another friend of mine was telling me her child wanted to draw reindeers
and paint them blue, but her teacher corrected her. Mom stood up for her
child and encouraged her to paint them all kinds of colors. We need more of
that.
Richard Whittaker
>My friend Denise Fleming, who makes wonderful, internationally known
>children's books out of handmade paper (In the tall tall grass, by the
>small small pond, where once there was a wood) says she can tell how
>good a mom you are by whether you let your kids use glitter... for those
>who are not in a house with kids (or haven't been for years) -- a
>refresher: glitter distributes itself almost magically to the four
>corners of the earth, is impossible to vacuum out of carpet, and will
>appear for months afterward as a single sparkle on someone's cheek, or
>clothes, or hair... parents who say "damn the torpedoes, full speed
>ahead" -- or get out the paints-- or otherwise let art win out over
>order.. make Denise's "A" list...
>
>I would take it even a step farther and say that living a LIFE "outside
>the lines" -- and allowing kids to do the same --- is as important as
>allowing for creativity in that small category we call "art". Adults
>know that there is artistry in baking bread, in dressing oneself, in
>gardening/landscaping, in celebrating our culture's rituals, in fixing a
>tractor, in the simplest things we do with hands and minds. For kids,
>art can be a compartmentalized thing, a 40 minute class, something you
>sit down at a table to do. If the rest of life is ruled and regimented,
>it can be hard to shift gears, think independently and "color outside
>the lines" when the bell rings. At a young age, kids quickly learn the
>symbol for "tree" and "person" and "house" and draw these same generic
>symbols over and over, bypassing the whole haptic experience of art and
>rushing to copy and do it the representational "right way"... god save
>us from well meaning adults saying "what IS it?" or "No, make it like
>THIS"...
>
>We tell kids "be free" but unless we live the example, it's hard for
>them to feel they have permission. My friend Monica (pregnant with her
>9th, homebirthed and homeschooled) let her kids paint the piano, paint
>faux-stained-glass scenes on the windows... she does the same herself,
>painting undersea murals in the kids' bunk bed room, always something
>new. Last time I was there the "border" on the kitchen wall was a
>timeline -- to scale --of the history of human civilization...
>
>If you are comfortable living outside the lines, your kids will learn
>first hand that it's OK to be in the minority. We're the mini farm with
>dandelions in the middle of the uniform suburbs, the folks with diapers
>on the line when "everybody" uses disposables... the kids who don't get
>on the bus when "everybody" goes to school... I don't get into judging
>the choices of others or condemning the schools, when my kids ask I just
>say "because it's how we choose to do it." My kids don't know sponge bob
>square pants from a rug rat... but they are avid readers with wonderful
>imaginations. One world, many paths.
>
>It's good for adults, too, to expand their canvas to include all of
>life... maybe the kind of art that makes a statement (I had an old
>boyfriend who hung christmas lights on his apartment railing spelling
>out the words "buy things") or the kind that's just a whim (I just
>strung the ceiling of my sick 4 year old's room with twinkly leftover
>christmas lights, for "stars"... ) For Christmas she wants to be a
>kitty... so I got a grey sweatsuit and sewed on ears and tail for her.
>She will want to wear it day and night, to the store and to church... we
>will let her.
>
>When we venture outside the lines, we give other adults permission to do
>the same... even just a little. The bright purple house on a downtown
>street, alarming as it is, gives others permission to paint a door their
>favorite color or plant something dramatic in the front yard... Whenever
>we live the example of "why be normal" we inspire others to live larger,
>take chances, look silly, express their differences.
>
>Kids still question the status quo, and that's to be valued. Can I sleep
>in a hammock in my room instead of a bed? Sure. Can you make my pancake
>shaped like a glyptodon? I can try. Can we plant a coconut in Ohio?
>Let's try it and see what happens. When my hubby and I try some grand
>creative plan and it's a real boner... we sit back and laugh, make fun
>of ourselves and each other, then do it over a different way. That's all
>part of "art class".
>
>Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it.. for us it means going to my
>Mom and Dad's for the annual Festival of Wretched Excess.... tree
>obscured by overindulgent gifts, christmas eve lobster and ceasar,
>christmas morning eggs benedict and champagne mimosas, and then the
>table-groaning spread of christmas dinner, standing rib roast and Ohio
>tomato pudding, creamed pearl onions, roasted root veggies and some
>decadent dessert... it humbles our own tree, handmade gifts and simple
>approach but they are ours and therefore meaningful and comforting...
>
>I will think of you all, and whatever holidays you celebrate... I will
>think of Mama Luce when I make the buttermilk pie.. Jeff's making Rick
>Bowman's chocolate chip cheesecake...I will think of Tony when dad's
>beagles lie, farting, on the hearth ;0)
>
>good solstice, good new year, good kwaanza, bright blessings to
>clayarters everywhere...
>
>Yours, Kelly... with the third child now huddled by the fire next to a
>barf bucket... methinks there will be leftovers at grandma's table this
>week... off to wash still more bedding...
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters .
>From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
>has the scoop on what matters most to you.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Jennifer F Boyer on mon 23 dec 02
Just a random miscellaneuous bit of info: my daughter spent 3
weeks in St Petersburg Russia about 10 years ago and came back
with some insights. After staying with a host family and
visiting school classes, as well as being a tourist I remember
her horror at the Russian art class. Not only did the kids have
to trace set outlines of one thing, say a girl in a skirt, but
they all had to color the outline in with prescribed colors in
prescribed places. Jesse was shocked and horrified.
Another sterling observation: ya seen one palace, ya seen 'em all...
That said, she thought her hosts were the most generous giving
people in the world!
And she had an amazing time there, despite the fact that there
was a nuclear reactor accident (reported on NPR, where we heard
it) nearby, leading the tour group to report to the US families
that it was okay, the WIND was blowing away from St P... not my
greatest day.
Jennifer
> Another friend of mine was telling me her child wanted to draw reindeers
> and paint them blue, but her teacher corrected her. Mom stood up for her
> child and encouraged her to paint them all kinds of colors. We need more of
> that.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer mailto:jboyer@adelphia.net
Thistle Hill Pottery Montpelier VT USA
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
Never pass on an email warning without checking out these sites
for web hoaxes and junk:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/
http://snopes.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Bonnie/Jeremy Hellman on mon 23 dec 02
I've written this on clayart previously, but it bears repeating.
My mother always said that when you are the artist, you can make things any
color you want, any way you want.
I second that, for artists of all ages.
And let us not forget that you're never too old to have a happy childhood.
Bonnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Whittaker"
To:
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: kids, art and life
> Kelly's post, which should be required reading for elementary art school
> teachers, reminded me of something my friend Jane Rosen said. Jane teaches
> drawing at UC Berkeley and tape recorded one of her classes for me. [I
> published the transcript] Jane has a sense of humor, and is a very keen
> observer. She was talking to her university drawing class and said, "When
> you're very little you draw an apple like this. You see the apple and you
> go [makes a series of emphatic circle lines] Apple! Now your teacher comes
> along, darling that she or he is, and says, 'No! Apples look like this!'
> and the teacher draws the standard apple symbol. You learn to draw the
> symbol. You draw your house or your mother-'Mom has aahlaaawtt of hair!
Her
> legs are very loooong.' You draw what you see. The teacher comes along.
'No
> Johnny! No Janet! Skirts look like this!' [trapezoid] Houses look like
this
> [triangle on top of square] You learn to draw symbols. Now we know how to
> go to the ladies room. You'd be amazed how often I confuse that, because I
> wear pants!"
>
> Another friend of mine was telling me her child wanted to draw reindeers
> and paint them blue, but her teacher corrected her. Mom stood up for her
> child and encouraged her to paint them all kinds of colors. We need more
of
> that.
>
> Richard Whittaker
> >My friend Denise Fleming, who makes wonderful, internationally known
> >children's books out of handmade paper (In the tall tall grass, by the
> >small small pond, where once there was a wood) says she can tell how
> >good a mom you are by whether you let your kids use glitter... for those
> >who are not in a house with kids (or haven't been for years) -- a
> >refresher: glitter distributes itself almost magically to the four
> >corners of the earth, is impossible to vacuum out of carpet, and will
> >appear for months afterward as a single sparkle on someone's cheek, or
> >clothes, or hair... parents who say "damn the torpedoes, full speed
> >ahead" -- or get out the paints-- or otherwise let art win out over
> >order.. make Denise's "A" list...
> >
> >I would take it even a step farther and say that living a LIFE "outside
> >the lines" -- and allowing kids to do the same --- is as important as
> >allowing for creativity in that small category we call "art". Adults
> >know that there is artistry in baking bread, in dressing oneself, in
> >gardening/landscaping, in celebrating our culture's rituals, in fixing a
> >tractor, in the simplest things we do with hands and minds. For kids,
> >art can be a compartmentalized thing, a 40 minute class, something you
> >sit down at a table to do. If the rest of life is ruled and regimented,
> >it can be hard to shift gears, think independently and "color outside
> >the lines" when the bell rings. At a young age, kids quickly learn the
> >symbol for "tree" and "person" and "house" and draw these same generic
> >symbols over and over, bypassing the whole haptic experience of art and
> >rushing to copy and do it the representational "right way"... god save
> >us from well meaning adults saying "what IS it?" or "No, make it like
> >THIS"...
> >
> >We tell kids "be free" but unless we live the example, it's hard for
> >them to feel they have permission. My friend Monica (pregnant with her
> >9th, homebirthed and homeschooled) let her kids paint the piano, paint
> >faux-stained-glass scenes on the windows... she does the same herself,
> >painting undersea murals in the kids' bunk bed room, always something
> >new. Last time I was there the "border" on the kitchen wall was a
> >timeline -- to scale --of the history of human civilization...
> >
> >If you are comfortable living outside the lines, your kids will learn
> >first hand that it's OK to be in the minority. We're the mini farm with
> >dandelions in the middle of the uniform suburbs, the folks with diapers
> >on the line when "everybody" uses disposables... the kids who don't get
> >on the bus when "everybody" goes to school... I don't get into judging
> >the choices of others or condemning the schools, when my kids ask I just
> >say "because it's how we choose to do it." My kids don't know sponge bob
> >square pants from a rug rat... but they are avid readers with wonderful
> >imaginations. One world, many paths.
> >
> >It's good for adults, too, to expand their canvas to include all of
> >life... maybe the kind of art that makes a statement (I had an old
> >boyfriend who hung christmas lights on his apartment railing spelling
> >out the words "buy things") or the kind that's just a whim (I just
> >strung the ceiling of my sick 4 year old's room with twinkly leftover
> >christmas lights, for "stars"... ) For Christmas she wants to be a
> >kitty... so I got a grey sweatsuit and sewed on ears and tail for her.
> >She will want to wear it day and night, to the store and to church... we
> >will let her.
> >
> >When we venture outside the lines, we give other adults permission to do
> >the same... even just a little. The bright purple house on a downtown
> >street, alarming as it is, gives others permission to paint a door their
> >favorite color or plant something dramatic in the front yard... Whenever
> >we live the example of "why be normal" we inspire others to live larger,
> >take chances, look silly, express their differences.
> >
> >Kids still question the status quo, and that's to be valued. Can I sleep
> >in a hammock in my room instead of a bed? Sure. Can you make my pancake
> >shaped like a glyptodon? I can try. Can we plant a coconut in Ohio?
> >Let's try it and see what happens. When my hubby and I try some grand
> >creative plan and it's a real boner... we sit back and laugh, make fun
> >of ourselves and each other, then do it over a different way. That's all
> >part of "art class".
> >
> >Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it.. for us it means going to my
> >Mom and Dad's for the annual Festival of Wretched Excess.... tree
> >obscured by overindulgent gifts, christmas eve lobster and ceasar,
> >christmas morning eggs benedict and champagne mimosas, and then the
> >table-groaning spread of christmas dinner, standing rib roast and Ohio
> >tomato pudding, creamed pearl onions, roasted root veggies and some
> >decadent dessert... it humbles our own tree, handmade gifts and simple
> >approach but they are ours and therefore meaningful and comforting...
> >
> >I will think of you all, and whatever holidays you celebrate... I will
> >think of Mama Luce when I make the buttermilk pie.. Jeff's making Rick
> >Bowman's chocolate chip cheesecake...I will think of Tony when dad's
> >beagles lie, farting, on the hearth ;0)
> >
> >good solstice, good new year, good kwaanza, bright blessings to
> >clayarters everywhere...
> >
> >Yours, Kelly... with the third child now huddled by the fire next to a
> >barf bucket... methinks there will be leftovers at grandma's table this
> >week... off to wash still more bedding...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________
> >Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters .
> >From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
> >has the scoop on what matters most to you.
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Nancy R Chestnut on tue 24 dec 02
Kelly, thanks for this posting, your good humor and down to earthness are a
beacon.
----- Original Message -----
From: "primalmommy"
To:
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:25 PM
Subject: [CLAYART] kids, art and life
> My friend Denise Fleming, who makes wonderful, internationally known
> children's books out of handmade paper (In the tall tall grass, by the
> small small pond, where once there was a wood) says she can tell how
> good a mom you are by whether you let your kids use glitter... for those
> who are not in a house with kids (or haven't been for years) -- a
> refresher: glitter distributes itself almost magically to the four
> corners of the earth, is impossible to vacuum out of carpet, and will
> appear for months afterward as a single sparkle on someone's cheek, or
> clothes, or hair... parents who say "damn the torpedoes, full speed
> ahead" -- or get out the paints-- or otherwise let art win out over
> order.. make Denise's "A" list...
>
> I would take it even a step farther and say that living a LIFE "outside
> the lines" -- and allowing kids to do the same --- is as important as
> allowing for creativity in that small category we call "art". Adults
> know that there is artistry in baking bread, in dressing oneself, in
> gardening/landscaping, in celebrating our culture's rituals, in fixing a
> tractor, in the simplest things we do with hands and minds. For kids,
> art can be a compartmentalized thing, a 40 minute class, something you
> sit down at a table to do. If the rest of life is ruled and regimented,
> it can be hard to shift gears, think independently and "color outside
> the lines" when the bell rings. At a young age, kids quickly learn the
> symbol for "tree" and "person" and "house" and draw these same generic
> symbols over and over, bypassing the whole haptic experience of art and
> rushing to copy and do it the representational "right way"... god save
> us from well meaning adults saying "what IS it?" or "No, make it like
> THIS"...
>
> We tell kids "be free" but unless we live the example, it's hard for
> them to feel they have permission. My friend Monica (pregnant with her
> 9th, homebirthed and homeschooled) let her kids paint the piano, paint
> faux-stained-glass scenes on the windows... she does the same herself,
> painting undersea murals in the kids' bunk bed room, always something
> new. Last time I was there the "border" on the kitchen wall was a
> timeline -- to scale --of the history of human civilization...
>
> If you are comfortable living outside the lines, your kids will learn
> first hand that it's OK to be in the minority. We're the mini farm with
> dandelions in the middle of the uniform suburbs, the folks with diapers
> on the line when "everybody" uses disposables... the kids who don't get
> on the bus when "everybody" goes to school... I don't get into judging
> the choices of others or condemning the schools, when my kids ask I just
> say "because it's how we choose to do it." My kids don't know sponge bob
> square pants from a rug rat... but they are avid readers with wonderful
> imaginations. One world, many paths.
>
> It's good for adults, too, to expand their canvas to include all of
> life... maybe the kind of art that makes a statement (I had an old
> boyfriend who hung christmas lights on his apartment railing spelling
> out the words "buy things") or the kind that's just a whim (I just
> strung the ceiling of my sick 4 year old's room with twinkly leftover
> christmas lights, for "stars"... ) For Christmas she wants to be a
> kitty... so I got a grey sweatsuit and sewed on ears and tail for her.
> She will want to wear it day and night, to the store and to church... we
> will let her.
>
> When we venture outside the lines, we give other adults permission to do
> the same... even just a little. The bright purple house on a downtown
> street, alarming as it is, gives others permission to paint a door their
> favorite color or plant something dramatic in the front yard... Whenever
> we live the example of "why be normal" we inspire others to live larger,
> take chances, look silly, express their differences.
>
> Kids still question the status quo, and that's to be valued. Can I sleep
> in a hammock in my room instead of a bed? Sure. Can you make my pancake
> shaped like a glyptodon? I can try. Can we plant a coconut in Ohio?
> Let's try it and see what happens. When my hubby and I try some grand
> creative plan and it's a real boner... we sit back and laugh, make fun
> of ourselves and each other, then do it over a different way. That's all
> part of "art class".
>
> Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it.. for us it means going to my
> Mom and Dad's for the annual Festival of Wretched Excess.... tree
> obscured by overindulgent gifts, christmas eve lobster and ceasar,
> christmas morning eggs benedict and champagne mimosas, and then the
> table-groaning spread of christmas dinner, standing rib roast and Ohio
> tomato pudding, creamed pearl onions, roasted root veggies and some
> decadent dessert... it humbles our own tree, handmade gifts and simple
> approach but they are ours and therefore meaningful and comforting...
>
> I will think of you all, and whatever holidays you celebrate... I will
> think of Mama Luce when I make the buttermilk pie.. Jeff's making Rick
> Bowman's chocolate chip cheesecake...I will think of Tony when dad's
> beagles lie, farting, on the hearth ;0)
>
> good solstice, good new year, good kwaanza, bright blessings to
> clayarters everywhere...
>
> Yours, Kelly... with the third child now huddled by the fire next to a
> barf bucket... methinks there will be leftovers at grandma's table this
> week... off to wash still more bedding...
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Sign up for FREE iVillage newsletters .
> From health and pregnancy to shopping and relationships, iVillage
> has the scoop on what matters most to you.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
| |
|
