Joyce Lee on fri 3 jan 03
I think it's worse than bad form to share the glaze
recipes of any recently published author. I know
that there are seldom, maybe never, unique glaze recipes offered ..... =
even
the authors probably "found" their glazes from some
other source. But if in recent history a glaze recipe
is known to "belong" to a published potter, then the
most we should offer to one who requests the recipe
is information concerning the publication where the
glaze may be found. There are, of course, major
exceptions. If you can't fathom what they might
be, you're wasting your time reading this anyhow.
However, one major exception would be a potter
who has collected recipes for years, worked with them,=20
tested them, tried alternate methods of application
and different firing schedules. In my opinion, these
recipes then become part of her ..... they are then
hers to use, to share, to present. Nothing wrong
with that .... simply part of the evolution of
clay.
I feel the same way about recipes offered by
workshop presenters. However, in our Clayart
archives are recipes for most any glaze or method
of application ..... plus how to's for firing. You're
on the List. They're there for your use. Feel free.
When Alisa shares the results&recipes of her hard,
often tedious, testing ..... she's doing so with either
full knowledge of those who authored the books .....
or has selected them from the archives. Her
tests enhance the authors' work, in my opinion.
What is extremely annoying is to have a newbie to
Clayart come on the List for the sole purpose of
requesting specific recipes .... and offering nothing
in return. We've had posts such as, " Send your
recipes for a satin white glaze ..... one that is
problem free. Don't tell me to first 'look it up' etc. I don't
have time to do the research
myself." Note.... no "please," no "thank you" ....
almost a demand. Grrrrrr
Have I shared glaze recipes? Yes. Have others
shared with me? Yes. That's what potters do. We
are a generous breed. One to one ..... not on a
public format offering recently published or
presented recipes, or modifications of old recipes.
On the other hand, after a recipe has been out
there for awhile ..... is no longer new .... has=20
been about long enough to become Coleman's Copper Purple ...... or =
Pinnell's Red, or Mel's Shino with
Soda Ash, or Ron's tenmoku, for example, and
the potter who passes it on Labels the glaze as
such ...... there's not only no harm done, such
labeling helps secure the originator's position as
a potter of note.=20
Confusing, eh? If you don't understand the difference..... just don't
get it ..... then this isn't going to matter a=20
smidgeon ...... but it does to me.
Joyce
In the Mojave
John Norris on sat 4 jan 03
Hi
In regards to sharing recipes and also sharing your own creations-
At the risk of confusing folks, there has been some recent work with copy=
right
law, that may be of interest. Please Note: US Copyright may not cover th=
e
list of ingredients in a recipe. It may cover the expression of those in=
gredients,in
other words the exact text of the directions. (1, 2)
Some of the issues regarding the proper sharing of glaze recipes, surroun=
d
the intent of the original creator:
Did they want to share it with the world?
If someone else takes the recipe and changes it a bit, does the original
creator want attribution?
Could there be monetary concerns?
If these questions were addressed by the creator and included in the reci=
pe
itself, that would go a long way to clearing things up.
The folks over at Creative Commons (3) have come up with an easy way to
make your desires known if you create something, or how you might use/sha=
re
someone else's creations.
Creative Commons has a quick form to fill out that responds with some sim=
ple
legal concepts to help assure your work can be shared in the manner you
would like.
While using the Creative Commons copyright licenses may not legally cover=
a glaze recipe, it does give one a simple method to address some things
that come up when sharing.
I am in the process of incorporating Creative Commons into my web site (4=
.)
I am currently putting together a Ceramics Exhibition (a free at home
version!) and hope to have more to share at a later date.
John
IANAL
(I Am Not A Lawyer)
*******
The thread "proper web link address" got me curious...I wonder if this
is helpful to folks:
1. US Copyright for Recipes- Exploration
A. Without HTML Tags: http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=3DUS%20Co=
pyright%20for%20Recipes
B. With HTML tags: US%20Copyright%20for%20Recipes"
target=3D"viewer">click here
2. US Gov. Response to Copyright for Recipes
A. Without HTML tags: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/fls/fl122.pdf
B. With HTML tags: "
target=3D"viewer">click here.
3. Creative Commons Website
A. Without HTML tags: http://www.creativecommons.org/
B. With HTML tags: "viewer">click
here
4. John-Norris.net
A. Without HTML tags: http://John-Norris.Net/
B. With HTML tags: >click
here
********
*****
Art, Information, and Ceramics.
http://www.john-norris.net
*****
Ababi on sat 4 jan 03
Hello Joyce
I want to add to your words with a short story:
When I run an educational zoo we tried to grow there the weirdest animals, not locals,
Chickens and donkeys were too simples. We guides in each Kibbutz like "Carolina
duck" that was very very hard to keep in our conditions and Canadian, goose, belive
me to grow them was me harder that my most difficult firing!
Every year in the summer was the exchange time, sometimes I gave animal "A" and
got animal "B" Sometime I had to buy them. I always asked : May I buy from you? If he
said You can get it fine if I had to pay was good too.
It annoyed me to answer to a telephone call from stranger whom I never talked before
saying: "When can we come to get animals?
Ababi
The story in clayart this time, is exactly the same!
---------- Original Message ----------
>What is extremely annoying is to have a newbie to
>Clayart come on the List for the sole purpose of
>requesting specific recipes .... and offering nothing
>in return. We've had posts such as, " Send your
>recipes for a satin white glaze ..... one that is
>problem free. Don't tell me to first 'look it up' etc. I don't
> have time to do the research
>myself." Note.... no "please," no "thank you" ....
>almost a demand. Grrrrrr
>Have I shared glaze recipes? Yes. Have others
>shared with me? Yes. That's what potters do. We
>are a generous breed. One to one ..... not on a
>public format offering recently published or
>presented recipes, or modifications of old recipes.
>On the other hand, after a recipe has been out
>there for awhile ..... is no longer new .... has
>been about long enough to become Coleman's Copper Purple ...... or Pinnell's
>Red, or Mel's Shino with
>Soda Ash, or Ron's tenmoku, for example, and
>the potter who passes it on Labels the glaze as
>such ...... there's not only no harm done, such
>labeling helps secure the originator's position as
>a potter of note.
>Joyce
>In the Mojave
Lee Love on sat 4 jan 03
I'm always with Hamada on this issue: Secrets hinder innovation
and progress.
I believe it is important to acknowledge your sources. I've had many
glaze
recipes I've shared, some shared here, published by others, without attribution
being given to the original discoverer of the glaze.
"Catalogue" glazes are usually not very interesting. Actually, the
only glazes I have ever found useful from a book is Phil Roger's book on ash
glazes. I used his synthetic Nuka back home. When you work at higher
temperatures, with ash, and in wood firing, there are so many variables, that it
is difficult to "copy" another person's work.
I believe having "secrets" stifle creativity. I think the
"secret" attitude totally misunderstands the true nature of creativity.
--
Lee In Mashiko, Japan Ikiru@hachiko.com
"The first thing we must begin to teach our children (and learn ourselves) is
that we cannot spend and consume endlessly. We have got to learn to save and
conserve."
Quote from: "Thoughts in the Presence of Fear" by Wendell Berry
Full article: http://www1.ocn.ne.jp/~ikiru/sustain.html
Kathi LeSueur on sat 4 jan 03
joycelee@IWVISP.COM wrote:
>I think it's worse than bad form to share the glaze
>recipes of any recently published author. I know
>that there are seldom, maybe never, unique glaze recipes offered ..... even
>the authors probably "found" their glazes from some
>other source. >>
>
There are glazes that have been around so long, and published in so many
places that they seem to be part of the public domain. Shaner red comes
to mind. Most of tyhe glazes I use fall in that cagtegory. I'm willing
to share any of them. What I won't share is the one a friend gave me on
the condition I never share it with anyone else. I've honored this
request. It wasn't a popular glaze for her but it's my number one
seller. Go figure!
I get asked for the recipe all of the time. Others offer to share the
recipe for their favorite glaze in exchange. But, I gave my word -- I
can't share. John and Ron have asked that we not share. I bought the
book even though I fire at cone 10. Figured I could learn something from
it. And I have. I can't use the glazes. But the research is interesting
and I've recommended the book to friends. I haven't loaned it. I'll
honor their request. Hope others do to.
Kathi
Russel Fouts on sun 5 jan 03
Joyce
>> However, in our Clayart archives are recipes for most any glaze or method of application ..... plus how to's for firing. You're on the List. They're there for your use. Feel free. <<
Just to clarify, you don't have to be on the list to search the archives
. Messages there are open to anyone. You also don't have to be on the
list to post to Clayart. You can do it from most of the archive sites,
including the "official" site.
Russel
--
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
Home of "The Potters Portal"
Over 1800 Pottery Links!
Updated frequently
"Is the Hokey Pokey really what it's all about?"
kruzewski on sun 5 jan 03
Wise words as usual from Joyce - and I quote
"What is extremely annoying is to have a newbie to
Clayart come on the List for the sole purpose of
requesting specific recipes .... and offering nothing
in return. We've had posts such as, " Send your
recipes for a satin white glaze ..... one that is
problem free. Don't tell me to first 'look it up' etc. I don't
have time to do the research
myself." Note.... no "please," no "thank you" ....
almost a demand. Grrrrrr"
.......as well as from Tony Clennell and many others.
I'm always happy to share with others what little information I have that is
mine to give and raise a big smile when the recipient eees back thanks, or
even more questions. Thats nice.
But as Secretary of North Wales Potters I get emails from people wanting
information, and often it's as Joyce describes. I even had someone wanting
information about a potter whose pots were on sale in Scotland. Rather than
the obvious and ask at the point of sale - information they would have had,
he contacted me because this potter was supposed to live in South Wales. I
wrote a long email back saying I had never heard of this person but
suggesting where he might find the information. I got an email back berating
me for not knowing who this "famous" potter was ! Sometimes you send out
material and get nothing back, not even "thanks". Teachers who've wanted
projects for school classes and i've written reams in reply and got not one
word of acknowlegment in return.
I know Janet gets this sort of thing too - most of you must at some time or
another.
Every time I come up against bad manners like this I'm less inclined to take
the trouble again. In future, to the teacher who wants class projects I
shall tell them there are a lot of books writen especially for you that will
be a resourse for ever - look on Amazon or go to your local library. Same
with recipes - there are lots of wonderful books out there. Oh yes, and if
you want a pot just like so and so's, well buy the pot!
Lots of people want information for free, and more importantly, want to get
the result whilst putting in minimal effort. Usually they don't succeed, but
sometimes they do. Like the student who copied her tutor's pots, then killed
his sales by selling her copies i much cheeper in the same area.. Her work
is so obviously a copy of his, although poorer quality, but she's getting
the sales and obviously doesn't care.
One nice thing though. I was putting out my pots at Aberystwyth Arts Centre
Christmas Fair. The stand was really high and I'm really short and somewhat
weighty - so didn't feel I could climb to put the pots on the top shelf. A
guy came along, admired the pots, started asking how I made my shell sprigs
etc, he'd tried but could never get it right. I told him "I'm really busy
right now and somewhat stressed, but I'll be happy to tell you what you want
to know if you help me put my pots in the high places I can't reach". So we
talked and worked together for a companionable half hour or so.
True sharing.
Jacqui, at length as usual
in freezing North Wales.
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