Marek Drzazga-Donaldson on sat 11 jan 03
Dear Vince,
I use large amounts of commercially bought clay - I have not got the =
room, nor the incentive to make my own as the company I buy from make =
just the perfect clay for me - making large chimney pots and finials. I =
recycle my waste clay by using an ordinary pugmill, then preparing the =
clay by first kneading, then wedging. This then gives me a superior clay =
than just from the bag, or from a de-airing pugmill.
I disagree with you on several points - as I have in the past, and no =
doubt will again in the future - that when you knead and wedge you end =
up with muscle problems. When you knead and wedge correctly most =
muscular problems disappear (those that do not can be taken care of by =
careful use of easy callisthenic movements), and don't forget that when =
preparing the clay you are also preparing yourself for the wheel.=20
I also believe that putting clay through a de-airing pugmill, not only =
makes the clay more dense, and so in my opinion makes it less useable =
for throwing, but it also expands out whilst resting and so delaminates =
detrimentally. Hand prepared clay is more open and so is more responsive =
for throwing, and in my opinion better. I had mentioned nearly a year =
ago about the difference the matrix forms when clay is passed through a =
de-airing pugmill to a hand prepared clay when frozen and thawed. The =
visual evidence is stunning.
I am not saying do not use a de-airing pugmill, but be aware of the =
limitations, and that you can have a better clay by simply learning to =
enjoy kneading and wedging.
Happy potting Marek www.moley.uk.com=20
John Jensen on sat 11 jan 03
I also use lots of commercially bought clay, which Standard mixes to my
recipe. I use a deairing pugmill to reclaim my trims, and in my opinion
the pugged clay is better to throw with than the clay out of the bag. I
do a small about to wedging with each weighed amount, but if I had to
wedge all the clay I recycle, I'm have to retire from pottery as a
maimed person. I used to enjoy needing and wedging clay: I bought into
the whole aesthetic of the virtue of manual labour. But eventually I
got to a point where the strain and damage to my joints, particularly
the wrists was unacceptable. The pugmill was my salvation as a working
potter. At the school where I teach we have no pugmill and I have the
students and the student tech assistant do most of the reclaim. If I
try to do more than demonstrate the techniques, I end up hurting myself.
I just can't afford to take chances with the health of my hands.
On the subject of frozen clay. I did have about a ton of clay freeze
this past December, and it does seem to be superior to the clay which
avoided this freeze. I have heard that freezing ruins the clay and I
have heard that it improves it. As far as I can tell...it improves it.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toadhouse.com, www.toadhouse.com
Gail Dapogny on sat 11 jan 03
Of course, though, those--- de-airing pugmill vs. hand-wedging-- are not
the only two alternatives. We dry mix our clay from scratch, then wet-mix
and pug in our old Peter Pugger, a non-de-airing pugger; but I also wedge
the clay before using it. Nice machine. And as Vince says, it is great for
recycling scrap clay.
I am curious, though, about what Marek means by delaminating detrimentally,
and also by matrix forms. Also interested in Vince's experience and
opinions about de-airing vs non-de-airing.
---Gail
Marek says:
>I am not saying do not use a de-airing pugmill, but be aware of the
>limitations, and that you can have a better clay by simply learning to
>enjoy kneading and wedging.
>
>Happy potting Marek www.moley.uk.com
Gail Dapogny
1154 Olden Road
Ann Arbor, MI 48103-3005
(734) 665-9816
gdapogny@umich.edu
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/dapogny (single historical photo - no longer
registered with Silverhawk)
Vince Pitelka on sat 11 jan 03
Marek wrote -
"I am not saying do not use a de-airing pugmill, but be aware of the
limitations, and that you can have a better clay by simply learning to enjoy
kneading and wedging."
Marek -
I am glad that kneading/wedging work out so well for you, but you are making
unjustified generalizations above. I expect that there are lots of potters
out there of a muscular temperament to enjoy/appreciate wedging. But for
many people such forceful repetitive motion (regardless of technique) can
cause serious muscle and joint problems over time, and the reasonable
solution for those people is to do their wedging with a deairing pugmill.
I don't know about delamination of the matrix on freezing. I only have the
direct practical evidence of the studio. As a full-times studio potter in
Northern California, starting in the late 70s I did all my wedging with a
deairing pugmill. It always served me very well in place of hand-wedging on
a number of different claybodies, and the clay was responsive and delightful
to throw. I never found any superior advantage to hand-wedged clay, but I
suppose it has a lot to do with the particular claybody. Apparently yours
doesn't like to be deaired.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Lee Love on sun 12 jan 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
> I am glad that kneading/wedging work out so well for you, but you are making
> unjustified generalizations above. I expect that there are lots of potters
> out there of a muscular temperament to enjoy/appreciate wedging.
When the 77 year old "retired" Forman, Fukiyan, needs something heavy
lifted or moved in the workshop, he asks me to do it. Yesterday, I man-handled
his blocks of Oyaishi (Oya Stone, a volcanic sandstone that is used for
traditional building in this region), that he was using to compress his newly
cut neriage blocks.
I've wedged next to many young Japanese women potters who were
doing both aramomi (ruff wedging) and kikumome (chrysanthemum, spiral wedging.)
While all these women are about half my size, strength and weight, they can
wedge circles around me. Fukiyan also does a lot of wedging, because his iron
neriage clay is not run through the pugmill. He is not big and also wedges
circles around me. They are skilled and able in wedging, even though they are
not big nor muscular.
What is their secret? The clay needs to be soft enough for this
technique. Traditionally, Japanese potters threw with much softer clay. My
Japanese friends in America always added water and run their store bought
American clay through the pugmill before they used it. If the clay is of the
proper softness, dexterity is more important than musculature when wedging.
What should also be realized, is that if the clay is too hard for
wedging, it is probably also physically hard on the body and hands in the
throwing, especially with large work or throwing from the hump. In the
beginning, soft clay takes a little more learning to do skillfully, but it is
better in the long run.
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@hachiko.com
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