Ned Ludd on sun 12 jan 03
Gary,
That is a good point to be taken about the bodily wear and tear
involved in spiral wedging, with the heightened injury risk as we get
older.
My ideal would be to prep my clay using a pugmill (Venco, pref),
followed by minimal spiral wedging. Perhaps when Oprah features my
pots
But all is not lost for potters without a pugmill.
Spiral, aka oriental, wedging is not the only way of wedging clay. I
suggest potters sans pugmills try an old English method of wedging.
It does not involve the wear and tear on wrists that the spiral
method does.
Basically, the OE method is repeatedly slicing and slamming together
halves of a lump of clay, with turnabouts in between the cut 'n
slams. This accomplishes de-airing, as air pockets are burst, and
makes the clay consistent. Encouragingly, it involves an effort which
is easy to maintain relative to the amount of clay one is preparing.
Once you pick up a ryhthm it goes quickly and smoothly. A good sturdy
wedging table with _porous_ surface is necessary (wood or plaster is
ok, but no formica), and a cutoff wire at least twelve inches long,
and you're ready to go!
Without a pugmill I use this method to initially wedge my clay. My
chosen size to wedge is anything from about ten to twenty five
pounds. Were I bigger than ten stone (140 pounds) I'd do bigger lumps
at a time. Some potters like their wedging wire positioned fixed at
the edge of the table and adapt this technique accordingly.
Here's how I do it. I dump the lump on the wedging table. I like the
clay to be a mite softer than I'd throw with, and I like my throwing
clay on the soft side. The tabletop is about as high as the point
where my inside thighs meet. Lower is better than higher. Try
different heights and see what difference it makes.
I pass the wire through the middle or near enough, going away from
me, held parallel to the tabletop.
* Standing close to the clay, I grab the top half of the cut lump,
raise it up about a couple of feet with bent arms, turning it like a
wheel (my hands at left and right of the lump are the ends of the
invisible axle of motion) till it's upside down, and then bring it
down with plenty force onto the clay left on the table.. WHOOMP!
Sturdy table, remember.
Ok, that's the first go. Now I reach hands to the far side of the
whomped lump, lift that side up first, and pick up the entire lump to
turn it around a quarter turn, so that the side of the lump that
faced away from me is turned to face to the left of me, and the side
that faced right now faces away from me) bang it back on the table.
As I do it, it looks like a clumsy wedge, the blunt side being
nearest to me. Time for the second wire cut: I pass it through at
about the middle, up and away. I grab the top part, and repeat the
process (see asterisk above).
It's not rocket science, and precision is not a factor. It's simpler
than it reads. What counts is the consistency of cutting through,
turning of the cutoff lump and its forceful slamming onto the lower
part, followed by the slight turning of the whole lump in order that
the next cutoff is done on a different vector through the lump.
I spend five to ten minutes, most times, to get a reclaimed
wedgeable-consistency cake of clay to the state where it is free of
lumpiness and almost all air. Then I wedge it spirally a minute or
so, as that feels good and makes it 'kind'. Kind of like a tune-up
:-)
***A vital point about spiral wedging: the height of the tabletop as
you stand next to it makes a LOT of difference to the economy of the
your effort. Too high, and the effort multiplies to get the same
result, as your upper arms do most of the work. If you find yourself
doing this, STOP. This is clay wedging, for Pete's sake, not a gym
workout!
It is not meant to be gruelling.
In the States I worked at one pottery where the wedging table was at
navel level. In a flash I understood why the woman potter had awesome
biceps, shoulders, and bulging neck muscles. ;->
BTW I've often seen high wedging tables in America, seldom in
Britain. When I used them I made sure I stood on a box. My height?
Three inches off six feet.
Too low a table, and the stooping does your back no favour. The trick
is to get gravity on your side, so your body does not have to work so
hard. It should be easy and fluent, not hard or jerky. You assist the
clay to drop with force rather than hurl it downward. Keep your
center of gravity low, in your belly, a few inches south of your
navel. Move your body from that point. Knees very slightly bent, and
if the floor is concrete I strongly recommend you stand on a wood
board: it's better for your back. I stand on a duckboard. No fast
breathing, take it easy. Practice and practice until it is familiar
is what gets you there. Bon voyage!
best
Ned
wrote Gary Hatcher:
>I used to be a purist too about wedging clay. Saw the films of a little
>Japanese guy wedging a piece of clay twice his size. That worked great about
>the first 10 years we had our studio but then my wrists and especially my
>right elbow started to go from spiral wedging. Wedging is great for small
>amounts and for the young but as I approach 50 I am constantly analyzing
>everything I do. The easy way is not always the best way but just as with
>making pots, it does not really matter how hard you work on a piece (or
>wedge your clay), if it walks like a dog and barks like a dog, call it a
>dog.
>I would not be without my Venco pugmills, in fact we own two of them for two
>different clay bodies we work with. I still wedge clay after it has been
>pugged as I think there is something in the idea of alignment of clay
>particles by wedging. The pugmill just means I wedge about 1/10th as much as
>I used to. But the days of wedging all our clay by hand are long gone thank
>god.
>Working with clay can be a wonderfully romantic affair but there are always
>compromises if you want to survive with your body, mind and pocketbook in
>place. The real question is what tools add to the work and what detracts
>from the work? Machines are not bad just because they are machines. In the
>end it is your work that must stand or fall on its own, how you get there
>really does not matter to me.
>gary
>
>Gary C. Hatcher
>e-mail: gchfire@pobox.com
>home/studio: 1-903-857-2271
>university office: 1-903-566-7296
>http://www.pinemills.com
Marek Drzazga-Donaldson on mon 13 jan 03
Dear Cher,=20
best thing for raw and cracked hands is the stinky water that you will =
get from this communal bucket. In some cases this stinky water cured a =
students' very bad skin disease (non infectious) with only a few uses at =
my studio. I always have stinky water about - I call it the "Beast", and =
it is great for adding to reclaimed clay, sours it immediately.
Happy and safe Potting from Marek www.moley.uk.com=20
Marek Drzazga-Donaldson on mon 13 jan 03
Dear Ned,
spiral kneading is indeed a great way to incur RSI (Repetitive Strain =
Injury), there are several ways out of this. I use callisthenics to =
unwind my forearms, if your wrists hurt you are doing it wrong, and as =
has been said use as soft a clay as you are able - I use very soft clay =
as I throw large. Also make sure that the table height is correct for =
the process in hand.
Second way is to use "Bulls Horns" method, where you use both hands to =
the side of the clay and fold in from both sides whilst moving it =
forward. Angle of attack for both kneading methods should be 45 and at =
arms length, do not lean on top of it.
Wedging that you describe - here in the UK we have two terms 1 Kneading, =
which is both methods above, and 2 Wedging, which Ned has described in =
his post, where you cut the clay in half and bring one half on top of =
the remainder on the table, use the weight of the clay to supply the =
force and turn the clay fully over and through 90 degrees coming up from =
the surface of the wedging bench, then repeat the process.
After having pugged my reclaimed clay, I knead it, then wedge it. =
Perfect clay, and when done correctly should not cause aches and pains. =
I will be bringing out a video showing the various methods of clay =
preparation, and how to avoid stress and strains, or if you have got =
them how to get rid of them.
Happy and safe potting from Marek www.moley.uk.com
Paul Herman on wed 15 jan 03
Greetings All,
Vince forgot to tell you what happend to John Henry after the contest.
"He laid down his hammer and he died."
Happy wedging,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
423-725 Scott Road
Doyle, California 96109 US
potter@psln.com
----------
>> The reason I knead and wedge my clay as opposed to using a de-airing
> pugmill
>> ( I use a pugmill to reclaim and sometimes mix my clays) is that I do it
> quicker
>> and better than a machine.
> >From: Vince Pitelka
> Hmm. Such modesty could get you in trouble. My 5 hp. single phase 220 volt
> deairing pugmill can pug and deair close to a ton an hour. Can you beat
> that? Maybe we could stage a neo-version of John Henry versus the steam
> hammer (classic American folk tale about the railroad track-layer who beat a
> steam hammer).
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
Marek Drzazga-Donaldson on wed 15 jan 03
Dear Clayarters,
the reason I knead and wedge my clay as opposed to using a de-airing =
pugmill ( I use a pugmill to reclaim and sometimes mix my clays) is that =
I do it quicker and better than a machine. My Studios at Mole Cottage =
have not got a supply of 3 Phase electricity, so I have a small pugmill, =
but since we are making Chimney Pots and finials, and not the roof tiles =
in bulk, then I can afford to hand prepare, as we only use on average =
two tons a month
In my previous studio where we made hand made roof tiles I had two =
pugmills (neither de-airing as I tried some and they failed the clays I =
used and the techniques), one a Vincentini self feeder used for the red =
terracotta, and the other for buff clay hand fed and levered through. I =
chose to use the pugmills as we were using several tons of clay a day, =
and the losses incurred using a pugmill as opposed to kneading and =
wedging were acceptable, except for the Chimney Pots and Finials where =
we always kneaded and wedged.
I am not a romantic in the way of some, I use whatever methods that work =
for me, whether it is with or against the grain. I just find that I work =
quicker and better, without the aches and pains, hand preparing the clay =
rather than using a de-airing pugmill.
Happy potting from Marek www.moley.uk.com
Vince Pitelka on wed 15 jan 03
> The reason I knead and wedge my clay as opposed to using a de-airing
pugmill
> ( I use a pugmill to reclaim and sometimes mix my clays) is that I do it
quicker
> and better than a machine.
Hmm. Such modesty could get you in trouble. My 5 hp. single phase 220 volt
deairing pugmill can pug and deair close to a ton an hour. Can you beat
that? Maybe we could stage a neo-version of John Henry versus the steam
hammer (classic American folk tale about the railroad track-layer who beat a
steam hammer).
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Carol Tripp on wed 15 jan 03
But, Marek, I still don't understand why you prepare your clay in the order
you do; kneading (bulls head or spiral) and then wedging (cutting and
slamming). I could parrot the old phase, "I was taught, blah blah blah" but
I wasn't; my teacher had us all use the pugmill and never even mentioned
either wedging or kneading. Anyway, it just makes sense to me, at least,
that to prepare the clay for the wheel, one wedges first and then kneads.
In fact, I wedge all scraps and such, and then store until needed. Then I
knead it. Mixing soft, wet clay with hardish bagged clay only works when I
cut and slam wedge.
Best regards,
Carol
Dubai, UAE
_________________________________________________________________
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Marek Drzazga-Donaldson on wed 15 jan 03
Dear Clayarters,
just a passing thought regarding "nostalgia" when hand preparing clay as =
opposed to the de-airing pugmill.
As I said in my last post regarding my choice as I can work quicker than =
the pugmill. Getting yourself organised while preparing the clay is not =
just pie in the sky. Think of it in these terms. Working on the wheel =
can be stressful if you work with clay too stiff, and cold (not limbered =
up). I hate the idea of going to aerobic classes, or running, or any =
other healthy stuff, but if you go to the wheel unprepared - like an =
athlete without warming up for a race - then you will suffer from all =
sorts of twists etc.
I have two vertebrae (15 & 16) fused together from an accident as a =
teenager, so I have learned to cope with lifting, kneading & wedging and =
throwing (very large amounts) in a very aware attitude. I use the time =
preparing the clay to prepare myself - to warm up, limber up call it =
what you will - and it is a very important time spent readying your body =
and your mind. Don't knock it.=20
I would much rather do some clay prep (I actually love it) than running =
or aerobics etc. I think that therein lies the answer - if you like =
doing something, you will probably do it well, conversely if you hate =
doing some particular job, you will inevitably do it badly, or worse =
still without the correct care and attention. By all means stick with =
what you do, but be aware of the many choices available, and remember =
that a machine does not necessarily do it better or quicker.
Happy potting from Marek www.moley.uk.com=20
Marek Drzazga-Donaldson on thu 16 jan 03
Dear Carol,
I knead and then wedge as this gives me a better consistency of clay, my =
kneading leaves a slightly loose association of clay particles, whereas =
followed by wedging it makes a more homogenous mix.
Vince, I would generally have half a ton prepared in an hour. I also =
mentioned the word better. My pugmill 3" extrusion will come nowhere =
near that. Each to their own.
Happy potting from Marek www.moley.uk.com=20
Roger Korn on thu 16 jan 03
Vince Pitelka wrote:
>>...Maybe we could stage a neo-version of John Henry versus the steam
>>hammer (classic American folk tale about the railroad track-layer who beat a
>>steam hammer).
>>
...but "then he laid down his hammer and he died." Seriously, a good foot wedger can do about
300 lb an hour, max - I'll take my ancient Bluebird prototype pugger any
day if I'm doing more than 100 lb.
Roger
--
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
In AZ: PO Box 463
4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
Rimrock, AZ 86335
928-567-5699
In OR: PO Box 436
31330 NW Pacific Ave.
North Plains, OR 97133
503-647-5464 <-
Bruce Girrell on thu 16 jan 03
> Maybe we could stage a neo-version of John Henry versus the steam
> hammer
Ooooohhhh, oooohhhh, oooooh!
Another demo for NCECA!
Bruce "it was the first mail message I read today and I was feeling silly"
Girrell
Marek Drzazga-Donaldson on sat 18 jan 03
Dear Vince,
the copy I sent to John Jensen is as follows:-
Having put my reclaim and fresh clay through my 3" pugmill to get my =
clay as soft as I like it (very soft), I then knead in amounts of 30 - =
40 lbs and then wedge three of the blocks together, cutting about 7 - 9 =
times I find sufficient if the kneading has been done well, normally =
takes about 6 - 7 minutes per 120 lbs of clay. I have done it faster, =
but as the clay was not so well knocked up I keep to this system. I do =
not do this as often as I used to, normally 300 - 400 lbs of clay, as I =
now make less in numbers but more in the specialised chimney pots.
It is absolutely imperative to have the bench at the correct height, the =
clay at the right softness, and to dance when you are doing it. The way =
is to use the weight of the clay as a positive, as opposed to a =
negative, get the momentum correct and the rhythm right and you are =
away, keep the clay at arms length and use your body weight (of which I =
have plenty) and not the strength in your arms, the angle of attack =
should be 45 degrees, my bench has a wooden surface - 1" ply. I happen =
to be built like a brick shithouse, but that only helps to get me out of =
trouble. Remember those videos of six stone (84 lbs) Korean girls =
kneading several hundredweight of clay at a time? That is the way to do =
it, controlled and at ease with yourself.
Happy potting from Marek www.moley.uk.com
Vince Pitelka on sat 18 jan 03
Marek wrote:
"I happen to be built like a brick shithouse, but that only helps to get me
out of trouble. Remember those videos of six stone (84 lbs) Korean girls
kneading several hundredweight of clay at a time? That is the way to do it,
controlled and at ease with yourself."
Marek -
From your description, I do believe what you say. Sometime I'd love to see
it in person, but it is evident that you are not boasting or exaggerating.
And of course you are right that wedging depends on proper use of body
weight rather than physical strength, and of course on having clay of an
optimal consistency.
Thanks for being persistent in your explanation.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Marek Drzazga-Donaldson on sun 19 jan 03
Dear Vince,
thanks very much for the email, I greatly admire your input on clayart - =
even if I do not agree with all you say, I agree with your passion.
best regards Marek
when I get the video done I will send you a cd copy
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