Arnold Howard on thu 23 jan 03
I have a question for digital kiln owners (doesn't matter which
brand you have):
What has been most confusing, for you, about digital controllers?
Thank you,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
__________________________________________________
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Wes Rolley on thu 23 jan 03
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Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-65B44381; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
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At 08:26 AM 1/23/03 -0800, you wrote:
>What has been most confusing, for you, about digital controllers?
Gaining an understanding (feeling?) for the relationship between heat work=
=20
as measured by the Orton cones, temperature and the time it takes to reach=
=20
that temperature.
I prefer both to Single Fire and to cool slowly, which leads to long, slow=
=20
firings and gets cones to fall at temps far below what they might have in a=
=20
more normal rate. Finding the correct top temperature in a ramp hold=20
profile for a given cone has been difficult. Most cone:temperature charts=
=20
are meaningless in this environment. I have had Cone 10 touch when firing=20
to 2220 F. (22 hrs. to shutdown) Even the total mass that the kiln has to=
=20
heat makes a difference in firing times and rates of climb at top=
temperatures.
My only solution is to visually check the cones and use "skip step"=20
function on my Skutt 1027.
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far too=
=20
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am=20
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
wrolley@charter.net
(408)778-3024
--=======25052474=======--
Nanci Bishof on thu 23 jan 03
Not confusing, just is a wish list item. It would be nice to have a
numerical keyboard that would allow input of a number instead of having to
scroll through each digit to the needed number.
nanci
jeff seefeldt on thu 23 jan 03
pet peeves about digi controllers.
proper placement of the thermocouple to get an
accurate reading, i hated firing for hours to find it
was still off.
maybe I still don't know what I'm doing, but on my
skutt wall mounted, I have Ron & John's schedule
programmed in as user 6, but i still seem to have to
review and hit "enter" on each segment.
we obviously all have home computers, I'd like to use
it to controll the relays for the kiln and monitor
progress without running downstairs all the time. I
heard about the KISS program, which will monitor
progress, but don't know much else about it.
jeff
--- Arnold Howard wrote:
> I have a question for digital kiln owners (doesn't
> matter which
> brand you have):
>
> What has been most confusing, for you, about digital
> controllers?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon Industries, L.P.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
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Fredrick Paget on thu 23 jan 03
Trying to figure out the instruction book. I have a Bartlett and it is not
too hard to program but when I start to get error codes it is not explained
very well in the instructions/
Fred Paget
>What has been most confusing, for you, about digital controllers?
>Arnold Howard
From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA
Arnold Howard on thu 23 jan 03
Jeff, thanks for answering my question.
You mentioned having to scroll through each segment to fire a
stored program. I don't have a Skutt controller. However, at one
point in the evolution of the Bartlett controller (the one Skutt
uses), the following instructions applied:
"When you use a stored program, select the program number. Press
Enter. If there are no changes to the program, press Stop. CPL will
appear, then Idle. The controller is ready to fire your selected
program."
This might work with your controller.
With best wishes,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
--- jeff seefeldt wrote:
> pet peeves about digi controllers.
>
> proper placement of the thermocouple to get an
> accurate reading, i hated firing for hours to find it
> was still off.
>
> maybe I still don't know what I'm doing, but on my
> skutt wall mounted, I have Ron & John's schedule
> programmed in as user 6, but i still seem to have to
> review and hit "enter" on each segment.
>
> we obviously all have home computers, I'd like to use
> it to controll the relays for the kiln and monitor
> progress without running downstairs all the time. I
> heard about the KISS program, which will monitor
> progress, but don't know much else about it.
__________________________________________________
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WHC228@AOL.COM on thu 23 jan 03
Probably the best way to learn about the KISS program is to call the Bartlett
Instrument Co. These are very helpful people. 319 372 8366. I use the KISS
program to supervise my kilns both from my studio and from home. I use a PC
Anywhere program to call my computer in town to see what is going on in my
kilns. It is really good when there is a chance of a power failure. I live
three miles from my studio, and it has saved me a lot of trips to and from my
studio.
If you use this program and are controlling more than one zone in your kiln
you really get a chance to get a visual record of what is going on, and an
opportunity to balance those zones so that the whole kiln is firing
accurately.
Bill Campbell
Don & June MacDonald on thu 23 jan 03
Perhaps also in the "wish list" category, I would really appreciate
having a "cancel" button when programming in segments. Don't know how
many times I have tried programming in segments on my Skutt only to make
an error in the last one or two and then I have to start from scratch
again. Unless I am missing something?
June from B.C.
Arnold Howard wrote:
>
> I have a question for digital kiln owners (doesn't matter which
> brand you have):
>
> What has been most confusing, for you, about digital controllers?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon Industries, L.P.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Chris Schafale on fri 24 jan 03
June,
You probably know this, but you don't actually have to re-enter the
program each time-- just keep pressing the Enter key until you get
to the segment you want to change. Also, if you key in the wrong
temperature, but haven't pressed the enter key yet, you can
"cancel" by pressing 0 over and over until the display shows all 0's,
then enter the correct number.
I also would love the ability to just tell it to use Program 1, without
stepping through all the ramps and holds that are stored. Haven't
tried Arnold's suggestion yet, but I'm doubtful.
Chris
Date sent: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 16:20:07 -0800
Send reply to: Clayart
From: Don & June MacDonald
Organization: @Home Network
Subject: Re: A question about digital controllers
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Perhaps also in the "wish list" category, I would really appreciate
> having a "cancel" button when programming in segments. Don't know how
> many times I have tried programming in segments on my Skutt only to make
> an error in the last one or two and then I have to start from scratch
> again. Unless I am missing something?
>
> June from B.C.
>
> Arnold Howard wrote:
> >
> > I have a question for digital kiln owners (doesn't matter which
> > brand you have):
> >
> > What has been most confusing, for you, about digital controllers?
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Arnold Howard
> > Paragon Industries, L.P.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Light One Candle Pottery
Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina, USA
(south of Raleigh)
candle@intrex.net
http://www.lightonecandle.com
Bob Santerre on fri 24 jan 03
Bill,
Are you referring to your gas kilns? Are you firing multiple zones with them? If so how are you accomplishing this? Do you have individual solenoids controlling gas flow on each burner?
Bob
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Bill wrote:
If you use this program and are controlling more than one zone in your kiln
you really get a chance to get a visual record of what is going on, and an
opportunity to balance those zones so that the whole kiln is firing
accurately.
Valerie Hawkins on fri 24 jan 03
Ditto with Wes.
Also, as the elements age, my program seems to become increasingly
unreliable. I'm thinking that they take longer to get to top temp and al=
so
contribute overfiring. I began feeling like I was constantly trying to h=
it
a moving target with my programable controller. Now, I fire most of my w=
ork
in an old skutt with kiln sitter and get more consistent results. I use =
my
olympic with controller for glazes that don't mind being over fired a bit=
,
and when a controlled slow cool is more crucial.
Valerie
Charlotte, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Wes Rolley
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:28 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: A question about digital controllers
At 08:26 AM 1/23/03 -0800, you wrote:
>What has been most confusing, for you, about digital controllers?
Gaining an understanding (feeling?) for the relationship between heat wor=
k
as measured by the Orton cones, temperature and the time it takes to reac=
h
that temperature.
I prefer both to Single Fire and to cool slowly, which leads to long, slo=
w
firings and gets cones to fall at temps far below what they might have in=
a
more normal rate. Finding the correct top temperature in a ramp hold
profile for a given cone has been difficult. Most cone:temperature chart=
s
are meaningless in this environment. I have had Cone 10 touch when firing
to 2220 F. (22 hrs. to shutdown) Even the total mass that the kiln has t=
o
heat makes a difference in firing times and rates of climb at top
temperatures.
My only solution is to visually check the cones and use "skip step"
function on my Skutt 1027.
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far to=
o
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
wrolley@charter.net
(408)778-3024
Carol Ross on sat 25 jan 03
It might work if you don't want to change any segment. My difficulty was
that I wanted to change the candling time only. When I did that, changed
the first segment and hit start - everything else was erased! So if you
change one segment, you have to go thru and check them all, pressing enter
with each one... Argh.
Carol
> Jeff, thanks for answering my question.
>
> You mentioned having to scroll through each segment to fire a
> stored program. I don't have a Skutt controller. However, at one
> point in the evolution of the Bartlett controller (the one Skutt
> uses), the following instructions applied:
>
> "When you use a stored program, select the program number. Press
> Enter. If there are no changes to the program, press Stop. CPL will
> appear, then Idle. The controller is ready to fire your selected
> program."
>
> This might work with your controller.
>
> With best wishes,
>
> Arnold Howard
>
> Paragon Industries, L.P.
>
>
> --- jeff seefeldt wrote:
>> pet peeves about digi controllers.
>>
>> proper placement of the thermocouple to get an
>> accurate reading, i hated firing for hours to find it
>> was still off.
>>
>> maybe I still don't know what I'm doing, but on my
>> skutt wall mounted, I have Ron & John's schedule
>> programmed in as user 6, but i still seem to have to
>> review and hit "enter" on each segment.
>>
>> we obviously all have home computers, I'd like to use
>> it to controll the relays for the kiln and monitor
>> progress without running downstairs all the time. I
>> heard about the KISS program, which will monitor
>> progress, but don't know much else about it.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner on sat 25 jan 03
(I know I'm going to tick someone off with this one....)
Do you all know just how SPOILED you all sound, sheesh, you might even
strain a finger or two pushing all those buttons!
Go back to a manual controlled kiln for awhile.
Earl Brunner
Carol Ross wrote:
> It might work if you don't want to change any segment. My difficulty was
> that I wanted to change the candling time only. When I did that, changed
> the first segment and hit start - everything else was erased! So if you
> change one segment, you have to go thru and check them all, pressing enter
> with each one... Argh.
>
> Carol
>
>
>
>>Jeff, thanks for answering my question.
>>
>>You mentioned having to scroll through each segment to fire a
>>stored program. I don't have a Skutt controller. However, at one
>>point in the evolution of the Bartlett controller (the one Skutt
>>uses), the following instructions applied:
>>
>>"When you use a stored program, select the program number. Press
>>Enter. If there are no changes to the program, press Stop. CPL will
>>appear, then Idle. The controller is ready to fire your selected
>>program."
>>
>>This might work with your controller.
>>
>>With best wishes,
>>
>>Arnold Howard
>>
>>Paragon Industries, L.P.
>>
>>
>>--- jeff seefeldt wrote:
>>
>>>pet peeves about digi controllers.
>>>
>>>proper placement of the thermocouple to get an
>>>accurate reading, i hated firing for hours to find it
>>>was still off.
>>>
>>>maybe I still don't know what I'm doing, but on my
>>>skutt wall mounted, I have Ron & John's schedule
>>>programmed in as user 6, but i still seem to have to
>>>review and hit "enter" on each segment.
>>>
>>>we obviously all have home computers, I'd like to use
>>>it to controll the relays for the kiln and monitor
>>>progress without running downstairs all the time. I
>>>heard about the KISS program, which will monitor
>>>progress, but don't know much else about it.
>>
>
Concepts in Clay on sat 25 jan 03
In a message dated 1/23/2003 11:43:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ajhparagon@YAHOO.COM writes:
> I have a question for digital kiln owners (doesn't matter which
> brand you have):
>
> What has been most confusing, for you, about digital controllers?
>
The biggest problem I have had is trying to find out about replacement
thermocouples. No one seems to be able to tell me if I can just replace it
with a regular one made for pyrometers or if it's special because it's in a
controller ... and the pottery supply catalogs are no help either.
Bobbi in Central PA
claybair on sat 25 jan 03
Hush Earl,
Let us brats whine.... after all we didn't start it!
Arnold did it.... he asked us to whine!
I'll bet you walked 27 miles barefoot through
18ft of snow to get to school but only after you
plowed 17 acres of fields, milked 200 cows and
fixed the family tractor!
BUT.... did you have red long johns????
Gayle Bair- and no I do not row or swim to Seattle.... I take the ferry!->
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Brunner
(I know I'm going to tick someone off with this one....)
Do you all know just how SPOILED you all sound, sheesh, you might even
strain a finger or two pushing all those buttons!
Go back to a manual controlled kiln for awhile.
Earl Brunner
Carol Ross wrote:
> It might work if you don't want to change any segment. My difficulty was
> that I wanted to change the candling time only. When I did that, changed
> the first segment and hit start - everything else was erased! So if you
> change one segment, you have to go thru and check them all, pressing enter
> with each one... Argh.
>
> Carol
Earl Brunner on sat 25 jan 03
Sorry, I jumped in in the middle of the thread, not having read what
started it. I stand corrected. :)
For the electric kilns I use, I wouldn't be caught dead without a
controller. We just moved up to the newer controller on the Skutt
that will allow us to program and store more than one program at a time.
THAT's a BIG improvement for me, having had to reprogram back and
forth from bisque program to glaze program.....
claybair wrote:
> Hush Earl,
> Let us brats whine.... after all we didn't start it!
> Arnold did it.... he asked us to whine!
>
> I'll bet you walked 27 miles barefoot through
> 18ft of snow to get to school but only after you
> plowed 17 acres of fields, milked 200 cows and
> fixed the family tractor!
> BUT.... did you have red long johns????
>
> Gayle Bair- and no I do not row or swim to Seattle.... I take the ferry!->
> Bainbridge Island, WA
> http://claybair.com
Terrance Gallentine on sun 26 jan 03
In regard to the question about the type of pyrometer to use with the
controller. I just recently bought an Extech digital thermometer capable of
taking readings from several different thermocouple types. The type that I
needed for the higher temp range was a "K" type. I called up my local clay
supplier to check on the type that I had purchased from them for my older
pyrometers (they were the cheap, $15 type) and found out that they were the
K type thermocouple. It appears that the type of thermocouple is based on
it's metal composition. I hooked up my older thermocouples to the
instrument and it seems to work just fine. I assume that if your controller
works with a K type thermocouple, that it will work with the thermocouples
that most pottery places sell for pyrometers as long as they are type K.
>From: Concepts in Clay
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: A question about digital controllers
>Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 14:09:59 EST
>
>In a message dated 1/23/2003 11:43:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>ajhparagon@YAHOO.COM writes:
>
> > I have a question for digital kiln owners (doesn't matter which
> > brand you have):
> >
> > What has been most confusing, for you, about digital controllers?
> >
>
>
>The biggest problem I have had is trying to find out about replacement
>thermocouples. No one seems to be able to tell me if I can just replace it
>with a regular one made for pyrometers or if it's special because it's in a
>controller ... and the pottery supply catalogs are no help either.
>
>Bobbi in Central PA
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
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dalecochoy on sun 26 jan 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Concepts in Clay"
Subject: Re: A question about digital controllers
> In a message dated 1/23/2003 11:43:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> ajhparagon@YAHOO.COM writes:
>
> > I have a question for digital kiln owners (doesn't matter which
> > brand you have):
> > What has been most confusing, for you, about digital controllers?
> The biggest problem I have had is trying to find out about replacement
> thermocouples. No one seems to be able to tell me if I can just replace it
> with a regular one made for pyrometers or if it's special because it's in
a
> controller ... and the pottery supply catalogs are no help either.
>
> Bobbi in Central PA
Why not just call or email the controller/kiln manufacturer and ask them
which one for your kiln.? They probably carry them and will be glad to send
it to you.
Dale
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