Snail Scott on tue 4 feb 03
At 02:59 PM 2/4/03 -0000, you wrote:
>...glue for attaching either metal or plastic knobs to already glazed
ceramic jar lids[?]...was advised in store to buy loctite super-glue but
handle fell off...
Superglue is great stuff, but only for the limited
range of applications for which it was developed,
mainly nonporous, perfectly-mated surfaces which
seldom get subjected to hot water, etc. It gets
used far too often for inappropriate situations,
and too many hardware-store employees recommend
it because they figure it sounds 'super' and they
don't know a dang thing about any of the other
products.
I use a paste epoxy for almost all my clay-gluing.
For attaching to a glazed surface, I would prep
the surface by roughening the attachment spots to
give a mechanical bond to supplement the adhesive.
Some people swear by E-6000, but I don't trust it
for high-stress applications.
-Snail
dawn isaacs on tue 4 feb 03
can anyone tell me which is best type of glue for attaching either metal =
or plastic knobs to already glazed ceramic jar lids. was advised in =
store to buy loctite super-glue but handle fell off after three days? =
would be most grateful for advise. Thanks, Dawn.
Charles Moore on tue 4 feb 03
Dawn,
This past weekend I attended a Lana Wilson workshop at the California
College of Arts and Crafts in Oakland. Lana recommends two products:
"liquid nail" and E-6000. I am not sure yet where to find these products.
She also recommends ordering screws from Aftosa because the screws screw
into a sort of sleeve that you glue into the clay. Check www.aftosa.com or
call 800-231-0397.
Hope this helps.
Charles Moore
Sacramento
----- Original Message -----
From: "dawn isaacs"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:59 AM
Subject: attaching knobs
can anyone tell me which is best type of glue for attaching either metal or
plastic knobs to already glazed ceramic jar lids. was advised in store to
buy loctite super-glue but handle fell off after three days? would be most
grateful for advise. Thanks, Dawn.
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claybair on tue 4 feb 03
Hi Dawn,
I have had success with E-6000 in other applications of
ceramic to metal. If your glaze is glossy I would suggest
you rough up the area to be glued.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: dawn isaacs
can anyone tell me which is best type of glue for attaching either metal or
plastic knobs to already glazed ceramic jar lids. was advised in store to
buy loctite super-glue but handle fell off after three days? would be most
grateful for advise. Thanks, Dawn.
dawn isaacs on tue 4 feb 03
Dear Gayle,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I forgot to mention that I am in the UK
but I will check out product anyway. Thanks, Dawn.----- Original
Message -----
From: "claybair"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: attaching knobs
> Hi Dawn,
>
> I have had success with E-6000 in other applications of
> ceramic to metal. If your glaze is glossy I would suggest
> you rough up the area to be glued.
>
> Gayle Bair
> Bainbridge Island, WA
> http://claybair.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dawn isaacs
>
>
> can anyone tell me which is best type of glue for attaching either metal
or
> plastic knobs to already glazed ceramic jar lids. was advised in store to
> buy loctite super-glue but handle fell off after three days? would be most
> grateful for advise. Thanks, Dawn.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Kathi LeSueur on tue 4 feb 03
dawnie.isaacs@NTLWORLD.COM wrote:
>can anyone tell me which is best type of glue for attaching either metal or plastic knobs to already glazed ceramic jar lids. was advised in store to buy loctite super-glue but handle fell off after three days? would be most grateful for advise. Thanks, Dawn.
>
>Two part epoxy.
>
>Kathi LeSueur
>
>
>
>
Diane Winters on wed 5 feb 03
I don't know the specific answer, but there's a nifty website that gives
glue advice. It's called "This to That". You choose from the list of many
possible materials to be glued, and the glue wizard speaks (or actually
writes).
In checking this site, I do see that Krazy Glue and Super Glue (both
cyanoacrylates, which I think is the same as the loctite super-glue) are
among the types of glue recommended for metal to ceramic. You didn't
mention which surface bond failed. From doing a little ceramic repair as a
sideline I know that one mistake people often make in gluing is to use too
much. As though, if glue will bond, more glue will bond better. Not so.
In most cases using more glue makes a weaker bond.
Good luck with it.
Diane Winters
in Oakland/Berkeley by the Bay
Dawn wrote:
can anyone tell me which is best type of glue for attaching either metal or
plastic knobs to already glazed ceramic jar lids. was advised in store to
buy loctite super-glue but handle fell off after three days? would be most
grateful for advise.
Diane Winters on wed 5 feb 03
I don't know the specific answer, but there's a nifty website that gives
glue advice. It's called "This to That". You choose from the list of many
possible materials to be glued, and the glue wizard speaks (or actually
writes).
In checking this site, I do see that Krazy Glue and Super Glue (both
cyanoacrylates, which I think is the same as the loctite super-glue) are
among the types of glue recommended for metal to ceramic.
You didn't mention which surface had the bond fail. From doing a little
ceramic repair as a sideline I know that one mistake people often make in
gluing is to use too much. As though, if glue will bond, more glue will
bond better. Not so.
In most cases using more glue makes a weaker bond.
Before regluing be sure to get the remaining original glue off.
Good luck with it.
Diane Winters
in Oakland/Berkeley by the Bay
Dawn wrote:
can anyone tell me which is best type of glue for attaching either metal or
plastic knobs to already glazed ceramic jar lids. was advised in store to
buy loctite super-glue but handle fell off after three days? would be most
grateful for advise.
Fredrick Paget on thu 6 feb 03
As an ex-product development engineer I have had over 32 years of
experience selecting glues and I must say that the application here, gluing
knobs on ceramic lids is not a place where I would use glue at all.
The conditions are all wrong. You have two dissimilar materials - the
ceramic lid and a plastic knob. There is bound to be different rates of
thermal expansion. The stress is applied in a mode we call peel and
tension. Peel is the weakest mode and occurs when the lid is at an angle to
the lifting direction.
You also have a very demanding environment. Hot soapy water possibly in a
dish washer or heating by steam, etc. from the possible contents. Many
glues soften up and loose strength while hot. This is true for epoxy. Many
glues weaken and loose bond strength in water especially cyanoacrylates.
I can see the customer picking up the lid from a hot coffee pot and
watching it fall on her foot.
The way I would attach such a knob would be to use a hole in the lid to
rivet the knob on using a hollow point rivet of corrosion resistant metal
such as aluminum, A tiny dab of silicone rubber adhesive to waterproof the
joint might be used along with the rivet. You need some rubber in the joint
too (to keep the stress spread out on the ceramic).
Fred
From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA
Fredrick Paget on fri 7 feb 03
>By "hollow point" rivet do you mean what's commonly called a "pop"
>rivet?
>--Carl
No, not a pop rivet. They would surely break the ceramic when you pulled
them up with the setting tool.
A hollow point rivet is a metal rivet with a short hole drilled in the
point end and is set with special tooling in an arbor press. If the length
is right you get the same setting length and tension every time. This is a
factory type solution. For studio uses a threaded fastener would work as
Snail explained.
If there are no holes in the ware it is not hard to drill one with a
diamond drill. Harbor Freight has some cheap ones, although an industrial
quality sintered one will last a lot longer.
Drilling should be done with the ceramic in a pan of water with just the
tip of the drill underwater.
Fred
From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA
Snail Scott on fri 7 feb 03
At 08:06 PM 2/6/03 -0800, Fred wrote:
>
>The way I would attach such a knob would be to use a hole in the lid...
I agree with Fred about this! I assumed that the
question referred to already-made solid lids, but
if you make more lids intended for post-fired
knob attachments, ANYTHING will be more strongly
attached if there is a physical 'lock' between the
parts, not just a layer of adhesive between two
flat surfaces. Even if you don't use a rivetted
system like Fred suggested, there are other ways
to get a solid attachment.
I would probably use a screw or some such from
the inside of the lid into the knob, and fill the
hole around it with epoxy or silicone to prevent
shifting. For a less visible system, try making
the hole in the lid go only partway through the
clay. (Make it thick enough at that spot.) Make
the hole wider at its bottom than at the top where
is will touch the knob. Then you can attach a
screw into the knob, fill the hole halfway with
the adhesive of your choice (I still like epoxy)
and swipe some also into the threads of the screw.
Sink the screw into the epoxy-filled hole, and
leave it to set up. Now, even if long-term use
loosens the bond between the clay and epoxy, or
the knob and the epoxy, or both, the knob cannot
come off, since the threads of the screw and the
reverse taper of the hole will lock it together.
-Snail
Carl Finch on fri 7 feb 03
At 08:06 PM 2/6/03 -0800, Fredrick Paget wrote:
>The way I would attach such a knob would be to use a hole in the lid to
>rivet the knob on using a hollow point rivet of corrosion resistant metal
>such as aluminum, A tiny dab of silicone rubber adhesive to waterproof the
>joint might be used along with the rivet. You need some rubber in the joint
>too (to keep the stress spread out on the ceramic).
By "hollow point" rivet do you mean what's commonly called a "pop"
rivet? If so, care should be taken to assure that the "mandrel" (the thin,
nail-like thing that is pulled till it breaks free, to set the rivet) is
also corrosion resistant (aluminum or stainless steel), because many pop
rivets have *steel* mandrels, which would eventually ooze rust through the
hole in the rivet head.
--Carl
J. B. Clauson on sat 8 feb 03
Pop rivets, hollow-point rivets! Sounds complicated to me, especially since
you need additional tools to use them. So I went to my kitchen and examined
my pots. The better ones have heat resistant (they stay cool even when the
pot is hot) knobs and handles and they are attached with a screw through a
hole in the pot/lid.
Everything hangs together just fine. No need for additional tools. If the
set-up gets loose, screw driver suffices to fix the problem. If dirt or
grease accumulates around the knob/handle, you can remove it easily to do a
thorough clean-up job. Standard sized screws can be replaced, in case the
one you just removed rolls under the refrigerator or through the heating
grate.
Works for me!
Jan C.
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