Karin Hurt on wed 19 feb 03
Hi,
I haven't asked any questions lately or given any comments, so I feel that I
can take your time and ask for some comments.
I received a $100.00 gift certificate for Christmas to the nearest clay
supplier, 158 miles away.
A few days elapsed before it was called in and needing clay, Raku gloves and
tongs, I drove there and thought I'd cash it in.
I've dealt with this place for 4 years, they know me, know my teachers, I've
taken a class there, etc.
They did not allow me to cash it in because I did not have the gift
certificate in hand. I offered to send it back, haven't ever cheated anyone,
have a good reputation and their answer was we can't do it. When I asked why
not, I was told "well what if the certificate didn't arrive at your address,
then someone else can cash it in." Yea, that's gonna happen I thought.
"Surely you can understand my position" was the next thing she said. "Surely
not, I drove 158 miles to get here" I said, bought the minimum amount of clay
and got the heck outa there.
What would you have done?
Thanks for any comments
Karin
Earl Brunner on thu 20 feb 03
Sorry, I disagree, with Lily. It would have been nice of them to trust you,
perhaps let you guarantee payment insome way until you could get the
certificate to them, but it wasn't their fault you didn't bring in the
certificate. It is a voucher for money that was placed there on account.
Without the voucher, their books could get messed up. It's regretable that
in your case the distance was so great. But not their fault.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lily Krakowski"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Clay Supplier conduct question
> Although I do not understand what the bit about "called in" means, if they
> had gotten their money , and knew you, they had no business behaving as
they
> did. Tell the person who gave you the certificate, and don't do business
> with those people again.
>
>
>
> Karin Hurt writes:
>
> > Hi,
> > I haven't asked any questions lately or given any comments, so I feel
that I
> > can take your time and ask for some comments.
> >
> > I received a $100.00 gift certificate for Christmas to the nearest clay
> > supplier, 158 miles away.
> >
> > A few days elapsed before it was called in and needing clay, Raku gloves
and
> > tongs, I drove there and thought I'd cash it in.
> >
> > I've dealt with this place for 4 years, they know me, know my teachers,
I've
> > taken a class there, etc.
> >
> > They did not allow me to cash it in because I did not have the gift
> > certificate in hand. I offered to send it back, haven't ever cheated
anyone,
> > have a good reputation and their answer was we can't do it. When I asked
why
> > not, I was told "well what if the certificate didn't arrive at your
address,
> > then someone else can cash it in." Yea, that's gonna happen I thought.
> >
> > "Surely you can understand my position" was the next thing she said.
"Surely
> > not, I drove 158 miles to get here" I said, bought the minimum amount of
clay
> > and got the heck outa there.
> >
> > What would you have done?
> >
> > Thanks for any comments
> >
> > Karin
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
> Lili Krakowski
> P.O. Box #1
> Constableville, N.Y.
> (315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
>
> Be of good courage....
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Lily Krakowski on thu 20 feb 03
Although I do not understand what the bit about "called in" means, if they
had gotten their money , and knew you, they had no business behaving as they
did. Tell the person who gave you the certificate, and don't do business
with those people again.
Karin Hurt writes:
> Hi,
> I haven't asked any questions lately or given any comments, so I feel that I
> can take your time and ask for some comments.
>
> I received a $100.00 gift certificate for Christmas to the nearest clay
> supplier, 158 miles away.
>
> A few days elapsed before it was called in and needing clay, Raku gloves and
> tongs, I drove there and thought I'd cash it in.
>
> I've dealt with this place for 4 years, they know me, know my teachers, I've
> taken a class there, etc.
>
> They did not allow me to cash it in because I did not have the gift
> certificate in hand. I offered to send it back, haven't ever cheated anyone,
> have a good reputation and their answer was we can't do it. When I asked why
> not, I was told "well what if the certificate didn't arrive at your address,
> then someone else can cash it in." Yea, that's gonna happen I thought.
>
> "Surely you can understand my position" was the next thing she said. "Surely
> not, I drove 158 miles to get here" I said, bought the minimum amount of clay
> and got the heck outa there.
>
> What would you have done?
>
> Thanks for any comments
>
> Karin
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Lili Krakowski
P.O. Box #1
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
dalecochoy on thu 20 feb 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karin Hurt"
Subject: Clay Supplier conduct question
> I received a $100.00 gift certificate for Christmas to the nearest clay
> supplier, 158 miles away.
>
> A few days elapsed before it was called in and needing clay, Raku gloves
and
> tongs, I drove there and thought I'd cash it in.
> They did not allow me to cash it in because I did not have the gift
> certificate in hand.
>
> What would you have done?
> Karin
Karin,
I'd have taken the gift certificate with me. Why didn't you?
I've been given gift certificates for restaurants, stores, etc. for
Christmas and Birthdays and I can't imagine them giving me the meals or
gifts without the certificate!
Regards,
Dale
Philip Poburka on thu 20 feb 03
Dear Karin,
My sense of it, is that you should have had the Certificate
with you, as, it is a sort of instrument as IS the basis in
it's tangible self, for the transaction you wanted to have.
It is 'like' Cash in a way.
Unless you had an account with them, in which case the
redemption of the Certificate, or, the paying of the Bill
would be attented to later as per the terms of your Account.
Likely, from their poiint of view, it may have seemed that
even if they wanted to let you send it in, the problem of
taking some notes about the event, or remembering it,
knowing from their own experience that in a case such as
this even if you were a Saint, you might die, have out of
towm emergencies, get amnesia, move suddenly oweing to the
exigencies of Life's surprises, or whatever.
If you had the known habit of comeing there every week,
well...maybe they'd have let it slide to get the Certificate
next round.
I think you should not be too hard on them, even though it
was certainly a frustrateing situation to have driven so
far. They know many people who shop there, and, they know
the kind of 'peace' they want to have in their own heads
too, when it comes to wishing matters NOT have to be
remembered as to someone's oweing a bill for items given on
what, in this case, is essentially 'credit' against a
promise of payment later, 'Gift Certificate' or no.
Now...who issued the Certificate?
Was there a way to tell in their handy record, that a
Certificate was issued in your name?
If there was, that might have allowed you to sign something
there, IN the book, or some note as might get pinned into
it...maybe, anyway...so the Certifcate could be decidedly
known to now be redeemed...and for you to 'send' the
Certificate in shortly thereafter.
Or...maybe...to have left your driver's license, Tool Box,
or some valued thing as good faith your Bill would be paid,
with the Certificate...
Sorry you had to drive all that way to deal with that irony!
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Karin Hurt"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 3:42 PM
Subject: Clay Supplier conduct question
Hi,
I haven't asked any questions lately or given any comments,
so I feel that I
can take your time and ask for some comments.
I received a $100.00 gift certificate for Christmas to the
nearest clay
supplier, 158 miles away.
A few days elapsed before it was called in and needing clay,
Raku gloves and
tongs, I drove there and thought I'd cash it in.
I've dealt with this place for 4 years, they know me, know
my teachers, I've
taken a class there, etc.
They did not allow me to cash it in because I did not have
the gift
certificate in hand. I offered to send it back, haven't ever
cheated anyone,
have a good reputation and their answer was we can't do it.
When I asked why
not, I was told "well what if the certificate didn't arrive
at your address,
then someone else can cash it in." Yea, that's gonna happen
I thought.
"Surely you can understand my position" was the next thing
she said. "Surely
not, I drove 158 miles to get here" I said, bought the
minimum amount of clay
and got the heck outa there.
What would you have done?
Thanks for any comments
Karin
____________________________________________________________
__________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
claybair on thu 20 feb 03
Well, if you want to be difficult the next time
you go there you can give them the certificate and
tell them you want cash so you can purchase your
supplies elsewhere. Then tell them why.
I'm wondering if you spoke to the owner or some
disinterested employee?
Usually a gift certificate is written out to a specific person
with an identification number. It should also have been very easy
for them to trace it in their records to see if it had been cashed in yet.
Then they could easily have identified you with a picture ID.
You might consider the costs of a 300+ mile drive &
a wasted day of your time. You might get better service
from a company that delivers in your area. If you
order with other potters and you'll save shipping costs not to mention
discounts on clay over a ton.
I would talk to the owner... I'll bet he/she would be upset
to know this happened. It's bad PR. A good way for them to
rectify the matter is to deliver at no charge what supplies you were
going to purchase originally.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Karin Hurt
Hi,
I haven't asked any questions lately or given any comments, so I feel that I
can take your time and ask for some comments.
I received a $100.00 gift certificate for Christmas to the nearest clay
supplier, 158 miles away.
A few days elapsed before it was called in and needing clay, Raku gloves and
tongs, I drove there and thought I'd cash it in.
I've dealt with this place for 4 years, they know me, know my teachers, I've
taken a class there, etc.
They did not allow me to cash it in because I did not have the gift
certificate in hand. I offered to send it back, haven't ever cheated anyone,
have a good reputation and their answer was we can't do it. When I asked why
not, I was told "well what if the certificate didn't arrive at your address,
then someone else can cash it in." Yea, that's gonna happen I thought.
"Surely you can understand my position" was the next thing she said. "Surely
not, I drove 158 miles to get here" I said, bought the minimum amount of
clay
and got the heck outa there.
What would you have done?
Thanks for any comments
Karin
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Sandy Cryer on fri 21 feb 03
I've dealt with this place for 4 years, they know me, know my teachers, I've
> taken a class there, etc.
As a former retail store owner...the clay supplier probably has a "policy".
My staff knew the customer must have the gift certificate in hand in order to
use it. People tend to forget to return it once they leave the store. Since
there would be no indication it had been used, anyone could then use it
again. I did keep track of all the gift certificates that were sold, but not
all stores do.
Now, IF I knew you really well, and we're talking REALLY well, I might let it
slide this time, but I would give you a stamped envelope to return it in,
within the next 2 days, if I didn't get it I would be on the phone!! Now
remember this is spoken from a retailer/owner's point of view, not a
potter's. I had a $50.00 gift cert. from my supplier, I kept forgetting to
use it when I was in the store, one day they ran my credit card, then I said,
"oh yeh, I have a gift cert, can I use it now?" and they said "no, use it
next time". As a customer, that made me mad, but I tried to understand.
Sandy Cryer
Arizona is cool, but dry, hoping for rain.
Robert Van Rens on fri 21 feb 03
Okay, i see a misunderstanding here on the part of the denizens of the list.
By calling in, I'm assuming that the gift certificate was ordered by phone,
mailed, and simply hadn't arrived yet. Is that the case?
I would agree with the assessment that the supplier should have been more
accomodating; here at Pine Ridge, we have a computer record of all gift
certificates, and could easily have verified that the certificate had been
issued.
Of course, this only works if we can verify that the certificate was, in
fact, issued to you, rather than the purchaser. if she ahd specified that
when she ordered it, that would be easy. Otherwise, we could call her and
ask.
I can see why the supplier was reluctant to deal with the situation, but
that's part of doing business. I'm sorry that you had such a hassle.
Rob Van Rens
at Pine Ridge Pottery in Alexandria, VA
>From: dalecochoy
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: Clay Supplier conduct question
>Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:54:02 -0500
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Karin Hurt"
>Subject: Clay Supplier conduct question
> > I received a $100.00 gift certificate for Christmas to the nearest clay
> > supplier, 158 miles away.
> >
> > A few days elapsed before it was called in and needing clay, Raku gloves
>and
> > tongs, I drove there and thought I'd cash it in.
>
> > They did not allow me to cash it in because I did not have the gift
> > certificate in hand.
> >
> > What would you have done?
>
> > Karin
>
>Karin,
>I'd have taken the gift certificate with me. Why didn't you?
>I've been given gift certificates for restaurants, stores, etc. for
>Christmas and Birthdays and I can't imagine them giving me the meals or
>gifts without the certificate!
>Regards,
>Dale
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
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Paul Gerhold on fri 21 feb 03
Karin,
You drove one hundred and fifty eight miles to cash in a gift certificate and
didn"t take the certificate and you have a problem with the supplier? What's
wrong with this picture?
Paul
Craig Edwards on sat 22 feb 03
Hello: Ouch! Gift certificates are such nice things. When I get one I feel
good. I feel good the second time when I redeem it. It's a gift!!
I'm sorry that it turned out poorly.
It's almost like comeing upon a car wreck. Who's to blame, I don't really
know, is anyone hurt, a more apt question.
It sounds like up until now you have had a good relation with the supplier.
It would be a shame to let this misunderstanding destroy that.
Don't let it give you what I call Irish Alzehimers. Where you forget
everything except the grudges.
The true redeemtion of this gift certificate would be forgiveness and peace
with yourself.
Craig (McKinney) Edwards
New London
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Janet Kaiser on sat 22 feb 03
So you were mad at yourself for driving miles without any money to pay? (A
gift token, like any promissory note, is only money in another form). Call
it ditsy or a senior moment if you will... But is it really fair to shift
the blame to your clay supplier for their "conduct" in the situation you
found yourself in, which was through no fault of theirs?
Would you expect to pick up a bag of groceries at your local supermarket
and take them home without payment? Even if you are on first name terms
with all the staff, would they be authorised to allow that? Would it be
good business practice? Would company policy allow such a thing? No retail
or wholesale company ever hands over goods without some form of monetary
transaction or credit agreement being in place.
"Trust" and "personal integrity" has nothing to do with it. Yes, in the
olden days, a simple "I owe you" would have been quite acceptable, but even
that is against the law (in the UK) just as "on the slate" worked for
Grandma, but is unknown now. It is a different world and in some
situations, it always helps to put yourself in their shoes...
What would you have done if an occasional customer of your own (out of
maybe a couple of thousand) turned up and wanted to walk off with "stuff",
just on the assurance they had a gift certificate (one of many a year you
issue) to redeem, but it was on the hall table at home... In other words,
they would pay, but had forgotten their pocket-book? No matter how much you
trust or know them, how are you going to make certain that you are going to
get payment, especially if they live so far away?
If you have an employee working on your behalf, would they want the
responsibility of "authorising" someone taking anything off your premises
on the mere verbal assurance it would be paid for at some future date?
Would you praise your employee for looking after your interests or tick
them off for being so foolish?
Especially if you think through all the scenarios... The customer has an
accident, is taken ill, suffers memory loss... Well... So much can happen
even to those of good will you really do feel you know and trust. But in
the real world there are sadly many who would just try to take advantage of
the situation and exploit what others call "good will" and "customer
relations". They would find all sorts of excuses for not paying, including
denying they had ever received the goods and judging from past Clayart
threads, there would not be a thing you could (legally) do about it.
Honesty is not printed across anyone's forehead and it is sometimes very
surprising to find out who is trustworthy and who not.
For example, those who have been sound clients in the past, can suddenly be
suffering severe cash-flow problems and even small, insignificant purchases
can add up to an awful lot if another hand-full are also in the same
situation. Suddenly a company can find they are also in financial crisis,
because they are owed an awful lot of money by a lot of "very nice people"!
And some of them may have tried all sorts of scams in the past... So don't
be hard on your clay supplier! They may have had all sorts of bad
experiences and it is a case of "once bitten, twice shy".
Presuming that there was no way of tracing the certificate or making sure
that it could not be redeemed again by a third party, one solution would
have been to pay them by credit card and arrange for them to refund your
account as soon as they receive your token by post. Another would have been
to set up a formal customer's account with all your details, so they could
bill you for what you bought on the day and then credit the account as soon
as they received the token.
If you were not offered these options they were doing less than meeting you
half way, but still within their rights in the way they dealt with the
situation. But if you were offered alternative payment methods and did not
consider them an acceptable solution, it is no good blaming them for
questionable conduct IMO.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
******************* FROM ********************
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
scott lykens on sun 23 feb 03
I woudnt drive that far to visit my mother without calling and double
checking my bags. Cause like Big Tony Soprano says," I love ya like a
brother, but business is business".
>From: Karin Hurt
>Reply-To: Clayart
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Clay Supplier conduct question
>Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:42:10 EST
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>
>Hi,
>I haven't asked any questions lately or given any comments, so I feel that
>I
>can take your time and ask for some comments.
>
>I received a $100.00 gift certificate for Christmas to the nearest clay
>supplier, 158 miles away.
>
>A few days elapsed before it was called in and needing clay, Raku gloves
>and
>tongs, I drove there and thought I'd cash it in.
>
>I've dealt with this place for 4 years, they know me, know my teachers,
>I've
>taken a class there, etc.
>
>They did not allow me to cash it in because I did not have the gift
>certificate in hand. I offered to send it back, haven't ever cheated
>anyone,
>have a good reputation and their answer was we can't do it. When I asked
>why
>not, I was told "well what if the certificate didn't arrive at your
>address,
>then someone else can cash it in." Yea, that's gonna happen I thought.
>
>"Surely you can understand my position" was the next thing she said.
>"Surely
>not, I drove 158 miles to get here" I said, bought the minimum amount of
>clay
>and got the heck outa there.
>
>What would you have done?
>
>Thanks for any comments
>
>Karin
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
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"cmceramics0317 on mon 24 feb 03
Karin,
I would be frustrated by the suppliers attitude. I've lived in remote
locations that required me to travel up to 6 hours to get to the
nearest supplier and have found that some of them are inconsiderate
to that fact. I've had suppliers that wouldn't stay open an extra 15
minutes so that I could pick up an order.
I recently opened my own ceramics supply store in southern Utah and I
would bend over backwards to help any of my clients. Most of my
clients are spread out in a 100 mile radius and I need to be
considerate to thier travel and personal needs. Build a good business
is dependant on your building a relation of trust with your clients.
Spencer Wilson
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, scott lykens wrote:
> I woudnt drive that far to visit my mother without calling and
double
> checking my bags. Cause like Big Tony Soprano says," I love ya
like a
> brother, but business is business".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Karin Hurt
> >Reply-To: Clayart
> >To: CLAYART@L...
> >Subject: Clay Supplier conduct question
> >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:42:10 EST
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from mc3-f15.law16.hotmail.com ([65.54.236.150]) by
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Thu, 20
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> >Sender: Clayart
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> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Feb 2003 17:46:47.0714 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[0A64D020:01C2D908]
> >
> >Hi,
> >I haven't asked any questions lately or given any comments, so I
feel that
> >I
> >can take your time and ask for some comments.
> >
> >I received a $100.00 gift certificate for Christmas to the nearest
clay
> >supplier, 158 miles away.
> >
> >A few days elapsed before it was called in and needing clay, Raku
gloves
> >and
> >tongs, I drove there and thought I'd cash it in.
> >
> >I've dealt with this place for 4 years, they know me, know my
teachers,
> >I've
> >taken a class there, etc.
> >
> >They did not allow me to cash it in because I did not have the gift
> >certificate in hand. I offered to send it back, haven't ever
cheated
> >anyone,
> >have a good reputation and their answer was we can't do it. When I
asked
> >why
> >not, I was told "well what if the certificate didn't arrive at your
> >address,
> >then someone else can cash it in." Yea, that's gonna happen I
thought.
> >
> >"Surely you can understand my position" was the next thing she
said.
> >"Surely
> >not, I drove 158 miles to get here" I said, bought the minimum
amount of
> >clay
> >and got the heck outa there.
> >
> >What would you have done?
> >
> >Thanks for any comments
> >
> >Karin
> >
>
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> >
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> >melpots@p...
>
>
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______________________________________________________________________
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> Send postings to clayart@l...
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> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
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> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@p...
Karin Hurt on mon 24 feb 03
Thank you Spencer,
you are correct, a good customer relationship is most important and I WAS an
excellent customer. I'll ship my clay in before I'll deal with her again. I
love Utah, lived in SLC for 12 years beginning in 1959, fresh out of Germany.
I LOVE UTAH!
Thanks again,
Karin
Les Haworth on tue 25 feb 03
A lesson I learned in my youth, from my father was "Take what you need with
you!" As I remember that lesson cost me more that your gift certificate.
When it comes to things that hold little interest to me, I am a slow
learner, and I am acutely aware of that. Nowadays I try to find everything
interesting... Always remember, "Every lesson has a price."
Lester R. Haworth III
Sales and Technical Support
Laguna Clay Co.
14400 Lomitas ave
City of Industry, CA 91746
(626)330-0631 ext. 229
les@lagunaclay.com
www.lagunaclay.com
"If you can dream it, you can do it!" ~~ Walter E. Disney
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Karin Hurt
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 3:42 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Clay Supplier conduct question
Hi,
I haven't asked any questions lately or given any comments, so I feel that I
can take your time and ask for some comments.
I received a $100.00 gift certificate for Christmas to the nearest clay
supplier, 158 miles away.
A few days elapsed before it was called in and needing clay, Raku gloves and
tongs, I drove there and thought I'd cash it in.
I've dealt with this place for 4 years, they know me, know my teachers, I've
taken a class there, etc.
They did not allow me to cash it in because I did not have the gift
certificate in hand. I offered to send it back, haven't ever cheated anyone,
have a good reputation and their answer was we can't do it. When I asked why
not, I was told "well what if the certificate didn't arrive at your address,
then someone else can cash it in." Yea, that's gonna happen I thought.
"Surely you can understand my position" was the next thing she said. "Surely
not, I drove 158 miles to get here" I said, bought the minimum amount of
clay
and got the heck outa there.
What would you have done?
Thanks for any comments
Karin
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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