francine epstein on thu 6 mar 03
I recently purchased 45 bats from ceramic supply in Lodi NJ. They are black
plastic bats with one round and one oval hole. No matter what I do, the
bottom part of the mound of clay can't be centered. It becomes oval and it
is the most frustrating thing in the world. I have replaced bat pins and
filled the holes with pieces of paper towel The bats are listed in the
catalog as batic plastic bats. My students can't center on them and Ceramic
Supply insists they have had no other complaints. I brought a bat to
ceramic supply and demonstrated the problem. Their potter was condescending
and not very accommodating. He told me I was using too much water and
centering too fast which of course had nothing to do with the problem. He
also threw a bowl without centering the clay to show me there was no problem
but beginners can't do that and I am a teacher. Has anyone else had this
problem? Thanks Francine Epstein
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Harrington on thu 6 mar 03
Hi Francine. I use these bats too. I'm a bit of a beginner and have
never used any other type of bat. I've noticed that they tend to warp,
but I've been trying to work around that since I don't know what else to
buy instead. But now that you mention it, I wonder if I'm not having the
same problem you are: I get my clay as centered as I possibly can, but
when I pull up, one side of the cylinder is always much taller than the
other, because the clay was never truely centered in the first place. I
thought it was just my inexperience. Maybe you could suggest another
type of bat for me to try? I am a pretty good customer of Ceramic Supply
and have generally found them to be very helpful, especially with advice
over the phone. Maybe their potter was having a bad day. But if it would
be helpful to you, you can use my email to back up your claim.
Lisa Harrington
francine epstein wrote:
>
> I recently purchased 45 bats from ceramic supply in Lodi NJ. They are black
> plastic bats with one round and one oval hole. No matter what I do, the
> bottom part of the mound of clay can't be centered. It becomes oval and it
> is the most frustrating thing in the world. I have replaced bat pins and
> filled the holes with pieces of paper towel The bats are listed in the
> catalog as batic plastic bats. My students can't center on them and Ceramic
> Supply insists they have had no other complaints. I brought a bat to
> ceramic supply and demonstrated the problem. Their potter was condescending
> and not very accommodating. He told me I was using too much water and
> centering too fast which of course had nothing to do with the problem. He
> also threw a bowl without centering the clay to show me there was no problem
> but beginners can't do that and I am a teacher. Has anyone else had this
> problem? Thanks Francine Epstein
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
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> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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Vanessa Miller on fri 7 mar 03
I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I am guessing that they are
textured on one side and smooth on the other side, and you are throwing on
the textured side because there are stickers on the smooth side. When those
bats are brand new, they have a tendency to drag slightly when the textured
side is either parallell or perpendicular (I can't remember and it isn't
particularly important).
Fortunately, there is a really simple solution. Throw on the smooth side.
Get some goo-gone and remove the stickers before throwing. It's irritating,
but they are pretty good bats for a good price.
Vanessa Miller
Ned Ludd on sat 8 mar 03
>I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I am guessing that they are
>textured on one side and smooth on the other side, and you are throwing on
>the textured side because there are stickers on the smooth side. When those
>bats are brand new, they have a tendency to drag slightly when the textured
>side is either parallell or perpendicular (I can't remember and it isn't
>particularly important).
>
>Fortunately, there is a really simple solution. Throw on the smooth side.
>Get some goo-gone and remove the stickers before throwing. It's irritating,
>but they are pretty good bats for a good price.
>
>Vanessa Miller
There is an even better solution. Get rid of the damn things and
throw on a surface your clay LIKES. (For alternatives, see the
clayart archives.) I use batts cut from exterior grade plywood of
generous thickness, and duron. Stay away from all waterproof
slick-surfaced batts and do your throwing a big favor. Those
plastibats or whatever they are called - they suck!
I don't know who invented this weasely product, but no way can I
believe this person ever threw for a living.
Ned, in northern CA
rob on mon 10 mar 03
Ned,
I know several potters locally, professional production potters, who swear
by black plastic ABS bats, the very ones you are describing.
Remember, YMMV. What works for someone else may not work for you, and vice
versa.
Incidentally, I prefer Masonite bats, but they do wear out and the surfaces
start to erode. Also, they warp, somtimes crack, and sometimes swell up and
get soft.
Rob Van Rens
-at Pine Ridge Pottery Supply in Alexandria, VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ned Ludd"
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: help bats that make the clay go oval
> >I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I am guessing that they are
> >textured on one side and smooth on the other side, and you are throwing
on
> >the textured side because there are stickers on the smooth side. When
those
> >bats are brand new, they have a tendency to drag slightly when the
textured
> >side is either parallell or perpendicular (I can't remember and it isn't
> >particularly important).
> >
> >Fortunately, there is a really simple solution. Throw on the smooth
side.
> >Get some goo-gone and remove the stickers before throwing. It's
irritating,
> >but they are pretty good bats for a good price.
> >
> >Vanessa Miller
>
> There is an even better solution. Get rid of the damn things and
> throw on a surface your clay LIKES. (For alternatives, see the
> clayart archives.) I use batts cut from exterior grade plywood of
> generous thickness, and duron. Stay away from all waterproof
> slick-surfaced batts and do your throwing a big favor. Those
> plastibats or whatever they are called - they suck!
>
> I don't know who invented this weasely product, but no way can I
> believe this person ever threw for a living.
>
> Ned, in northern CA
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Ned Ludd on mon 10 mar 03
Rob Van Rens wrote
>Ned,
>
>I know several potters locally, professional production potters, who swear
>by black plastic ABS bats, the very ones you are describing.
With respect, I'd like to see their testimonials. I need the entertainment.
C'mon, you potters using plastibats, ABS, whatever.. go ahead, wax
eloquent, passionate - and convince us! ... "Ode to ABS"... "My Life
as a Plastibat"... excerpt: "It was love at first batt when I first
beheld this greasy slick hard smooooth plastic surface on which my
clay squirmed for pure joy."
Yeah right!
>Remember, YMMV. What works for someone else may not work for you, and vice
>versa.
Agreed.
Still, there is such a thing as starting on the wrong foot, which can
easily happen when craft-naive schools provide plastibats for their
students' introduction to throwing. No way is this kind of batt a
good surface for a beginner to learn to throw on. It takes a knack to
work on it. To confront a tender learner with this extra headache is
not right, IMO.
I will not apologise for being trenchant about this. We should
respect, know, honor and yes _love_ our materials or how dare we call
ourselves _crafts_men and -women?
Without respect for and deep attention to my clay I am no different
from a mindless machine. And yes, it's possible to be in production
pottery without giving in to the temptation to adopt that attitude.
Just _observe_ how clay behaves with this kind of batt... listen and
watch! Sure, you can _force_ it to comply, but WHY?? Administrative
convenience? Easy cleanability? Because it will last for about 500
years rather than a mere 20 or 30? I'd throw on a surface that
pleases us BOTH - Ms. Clay and myself - according to ALL the evidence
of my senses. It is an intuitive thing.. but that is very important
to me and perhaps I am not alone here.
Or perhaps I am? :-/ ...no matter. En avant!
>Incidentally, I prefer Masonite bats, but they do wear out and the surfaces
>start to erode. Also, they warp, somtimes crack, and sometimes swell up and
>get soft.
Shoot, Masonite sounds just like potters of a certain age :-)
You are what you throw, and also, perhaps, what you throw on, eh. ;-)
best
Ned
>
>Rob Van Rens
>-at Pine Ridge Pottery Supply in Alexandria, VA
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ned Ludd"
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 2:22 PM
>Subject: Re: help bats that make the clay go oval
>
>
>> >I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I am guessing that they are
>> >textured on one side and smooth on the other side, and you are throwing
>on
>> >the textured side because there are stickers on the smooth side. When
>those
>> >bats are brand new, they have a tendency to drag slightly when the
>textured
>> >side is either parallell or perpendicular (I can't remember and it isn't
>> >particularly important).
>> >
>> >Fortunately, there is a really simple solution. Throw on the smooth
>side.
>> >Get some goo-gone and remove the stickers before throwing. It's
>irritating,
>> >but they are pretty good bats for a good price.
>> >
>> >Vanessa Miller
>>
>> There is an even better solution. Get rid of the damn things and
>> throw on a surface your clay LIKES. (For alternatives, see the
>> clayart archives.) I use batts cut from exterior grade plywood of
>> generous thickness, and duron. Stay away from all waterproof
>> slick-surfaced batts and do your throwing a big favor. Those
>> plastibats or whatever they are called - they suck!
>>
>> I don't know who invented this weasely product, but no way can I
>> believe this person ever threw for a living.
>>
>
> > Ned, in northern CA
> >
Ned Ludd on tue 11 mar 03
Hi Ingeborg
Thanks for your interesting feedback. :-)
About the masonite... when I went in search of some from which to cut
batts - a few years ago - I was told by the building supplies
merchant - after he took a close look at my sample - that it wasn't
available, but that a product called Duron was the closest
substitute. It was not on hand and they had to order it in. So that
is what I used, but only for batts 6x6 inches square. While not quite
as good as old fashioned masonite, IMO, these have been very
satisfactory in use. For bigger pots I use plywood batts, which were
given two coats of polyurethane sealant right after I cut and sanded
them. The sealant does not make them 100 percent waterproof (not my
purpose) but greatly reduces the amount of water absorbed by the
plywood batts. It should prolong their lives a good deal.
I think it's not your imagination, Ingeborg, when you find that
throwing on the plastibat, the pot tends to restick down after being
wired off, to a greater extent than masonite or plywood. This was my
experience also, and I count it another negative factor in using
plastibats. The openness of the clay body and its 'tooth' possibly
makes a difference in how stably your clay grips the plastibat on the
wheel. I can imagine a smooth clay, such as porcelain, tending to
squirm or shift on this kind of batt more than a grogged stoneware,
for example.
good potting and best wishes,
Ned
in northern California
Ingeborg Foco , replying to Ned, said:
>Dear Ned,
>
>I make my own bats. Some years ago I was no longer able to get masonite,
>the good kind that was dense and waterproof on both sides. After a lot of
>searching at the various lumber yards (in vain I might add) I finally gave
>up....The "new" masonite bats didn't last very long since one side the
>material seemed more like cardboard than anything waterproff. I started
>looking for other alternatives. Plaster was one choice but I wanted a lot
>of bats and storage space was an issue.
>
> I purchased one plasti bat and test drove it. Decided I like the
>permanence and then proceeded to make my own. I really like them and I've
>been using them now for a number of years. I have them in a variety of
>sizes and so far have not had any problems with them. I do not, however,
>throw on the rough side. Sometimes it seems that things want to stick more
>even though they have been wired off. However, I'm not sure the masonite
>bats were all that different in that regard.
>
>Sincerely,
>Ingeborg
>the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
>P.O. Box 510
>3058 Stringfellow Road
>St. James City, Florida 33956
>
239-283-2775
>Ned Said:
>
>With respect, I'd like to see their testimonials. I need the entertainment.
>
>> C'mon, you potters using plastibats, ABS, whatever.. go ahead, wax
>> eloquent, passionate - and convince us! ... "Ode to ABS"... "My Life
>> as a Plastibat"... excerpt: "It was love at first batt when I first
>> beheld this greasy slick hard smooooth plastic surface on which my
> > clay squirmed for pure joy."
Ingeborg Foco on tue 11 mar 03
Ned Said:
With respect, I'd like to see their testimonials. I need the entertainment.
> C'mon, you potters using plastibats, ABS, whatever.. go ahead, wax
> eloquent, passionate - and convince us! ... "Ode to ABS"... "My Life
> as a Plastibat"... excerpt: "It was love at first batt when I first
> beheld this greasy slick hard smooooth plastic surface on which my
> clay squirmed for pure joy."
Dear Ned,
I make my own bats. Some years ago I was no longer able to get masonite,
the good kind that was dense and waterproof on both sides. After a lot of
searching at the various lumber yards (in vain I might add) I finally gave
up....The "new" masonite bats didn't last very long since one side the
material seemed more like cardboard than anything waterproff. I started
looking for other alternatives. Plaster was one choice but I wanted a lot
of bats and storage space was an issue.
I purchased one plasti bat and test drove it. Decided I like the
permanence and then proceeded to make my own. I really like them and I've
been using them now for a number of years. I have them in a variety of
sizes and so far have not had any problems with them. I do not, however,
throw on the rough side. Sometimes it seems that things want to stick more
even though they have been wired off. However, I'm not sure the masonite
bats were all that different in that regard.
Sincerely,
Ingeborg
the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
P.O. Box 510
3058 Stringfellow Road
St. James City, Florida 33956
239-283-2775
>
>>
>
Brian Haviland on thu 13 mar 03
At 10:40 PM 3/11/03 -0800, you wrote:
Hello Ned
Just wanted to let you know of my find. I have been using
a clear polycarb (like they use to make machine gaurds that can be seen
through ) bats that i make myself from old sheets on machines they are
getting rid of . Its easy to cut with a sabre saw and just drill out holes
to fit your bat pins.Then i use some steel wool Extra course to burnish the
surface(that helps to make a surface that the clay holds onto . I have
found that ther is less friction than what i get with the plasti bats when
my hands are in direct contact during centering .And i just want to add
that turning over the plasti bats and using the smooth side is a great idea
but i have had no problem either way..oh yes and the thicker the polycarb
the better it seems to hold its shape better if you use 1/4 " or more. the
real thin stuff can warp easier..
Brian
"accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with
whom fate bring you together, but do so with all your heart."
>Thanks for your interesting feedback. :-)
>About the masonite... when I went in search of some from which to cut
>batts - a few years ago - I was told by the building supplies
>merchant - after he took a close look at my sample - that it wasn't
>available, but that a product called Duron was the closest
>substitute. It was not on hand and they had to order it in. So that
>is what I used, but only for batts 6x6 inches square. While not quite
>as good as old fashioned masonite, IMO, these have been very
>satisfactory in use. For bigger pots I use plywood batts, which were
>given two coats of polyurethane sealant right after I cut and sanded
>them. The sealant does not make them 100 percent waterproof (not my
>purpose) but greatly reduces the amount of water absorbed by the
>plywood batts. It should prolong their lives a good deal.
>
>I think it's not your imagination, Ingeborg, when you find that
>throwing on the plastibat, the pot tends to restick down after being
>wired off, to a greater extent than masonite or plywood. This was my
>experience also, and I count it another negative factor in using
>plastibats. The openness of the clay body and its 'tooth' possibly
>makes a difference in how stably your clay grips the plastibat on the
>wheel. I can imagine a smooth clay, such as porcelain, tending to
>squirm or shift on this kind of batt more than a grogged stoneware,
>for example.
>
>good potting and best wishes,
>
>Ned
>in northern California
>
>
>Ingeborg Foco , replying to Ned, said:
>>Dear Ned,
>>
>>I make my own bats. Some years ago I was no longer able to get masonite,
>>the good kind that was dense and waterproof on both sides. After a lot of
>>searching at the various lumber yards (in vain I might add) I finally gave
>>up....The "new" masonite bats didn't last very long since one side the
>>material seemed more like cardboard than anything waterproff. I started
>>looking for other alternatives. Plaster was one choice but I wanted a lot
>>of bats and storage space was an issue.
>>
>>I purchased one plasti bat and test drove it. Decided I like the
>>permanence and then proceeded to make my own. I really like them and I've
>>been using them now for a number of years. I have them in a variety of
>>sizes and so far have not had any problems with them. I do not, however,
>>throw on the rough side. Sometimes it seems that things want to stick more
>>even though they have been wired off. However, I'm not sure the masonite
>>bats were all that different in that regard.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Ingeborg
>>the Potter's Workshop & Gallery
>>P.O. Box 510
>>3058 Stringfellow Road
>>St. James City, Florida 33956
>239-283-2775
>
>
>>Ned Said:
>>
>>With respect, I'd like to see their testimonials. I need the entertainment.
>>
>>>C'mon, you potters using plastibats, ABS, whatever.. go ahead, wax
>>>eloquent, passionate - and convince us! ... "Ode to ABS"... "My Life
>>>as a Plastibat"... excerpt: "It was love at first batt when I first
>>>beheld this greasy slick hard smooooth plastic surface on which my
>> > clay squirmed for pure joy."
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
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