Bill Edwards on tue 11 mar 03
Hi,
Yes, sometimes many of us want to endorse our feelings
strongly and it is very hard to place our hearts out
there with questions, in particular a new person if
much of what they see is a hard lined stance.
Porcelain now is not what porcelain was so how can it
be defined as fully as some would like to define it?
They were standards and with newer technology and
newer materials comes newer names and products that
reflect newer standards. Meeting the definition of
porcelain in mid-fire may be the addition of a
chemical available now not avilable then and more
knowledge in the use of these products. Many companies
have explored this and utilized every chance they
could to improve upon something of the past and bring
it to a more marketable product now. More people fire
in electric and at lower temperatures now than before.
It makes sense to appeal to these consumers by
providing products that work based on need. No fakes,
products that have been engineered to provide either
exact duplication or in some cases better products and
services at lower cost, lower fire and with differing
materials. Theres a long list of why's as to how this
happens. Toxicology has changed as well but at one
point it was thought that cadmium was in no way
usable any longer as an art product. Suddenly we see
encapsulated materials containing such.. I don't use
them myself, too costly and too much lab work for a
studio potter to continuely stay on top of.
I also can't agree on this about placing porcelain in
a tight corner and saying it has to be just this for
it to be considered "True" porcelain. We have better
methods for preperation of chemicals that allow more
use of them than ever. Ron and John are shining
evolutionary standards in the field of glaze work.
Their work is ever changing as well and I personally
have followed this process. They will conclude quickly
that this or that has changed and given what they know
at a certain time this is their best judgement call at
the moment. I like to see that! We learn like this. We
don't have to agree but its discussed and good things
come from it.
I do agree that too often marketing people who are
selling something are pushing way too hard to make
things appear better than what they are. Common sense
and more discussion soon opens that can of worms and
usually it is dismissed or proven. If a clay
preparer/company is saying they have a porcelain then
I expect them to prove to me that this is in fact
going to retain very similar properties of what we
know as porcelain. If it is defined as such then it
needs to meet common standards. Calling and putting
all mid-fire and other porcelain products into a tight
list will not do simply because now it doesn't fit the
mold of what porcelain was once considered to be. It
does need better quality control in the way it is put
together and sold. I have said it over and over that
all opinions, views, educational ideas and personal
experience given here has been and hopefully always
will appeal to all people interested in learning and
establishing themselves as workers in this fine
medium. Personally I could never thank all the people
who have inspired me and made me look long and hard at
where I want to go with what I do. I never think in
terms of competition. Brian Haviland - Make your
points and be heard. Don't get into the name calling
and hooting and tooting, just place your ideas on the
table and if someone disagree's prior to trying to
discuss it, just move on and let others take it up.
You will find many people here are always willing to
dig deep and find answers and even when you feel
someone may have pointed a finger at you, just let it
rest a little while, give it more thought and try to
convey it in a clearer way. (Someone once said that to
me) Either they will figure out what you have to say
or others will come to you and help and before its
over you will soon have the knowledge you needed to
hold your own. But remember - Its strong opinions and
strong desires that make us better and our work
improves through change just like the newer lower
firing porcelains that are TRUE porcelains in all
respects. I will make a point to get some new pictures
of mid-fire porcelain on my web site with some of my
newer glazes in the next few weeks. Also I would like
to thank several of you for placing your trust in me
with recipes for ^6 turquoise. I had been testing some
that I wrote but never was really excited about it.
Thought someone might have something that would really
get me motivated. I took my own recipe that I have
tinkered with for awhile and decided to fire it day
before yesterday and I now own the best turquoise thus
far. Funny how I had it in front of me but now I have
some good comparisons that may even show me a way to
perfect it even more? Time will only tell. I think I
had issues because I am not a huge fan of copper
glaze. this one is pretty low in copper and is a
beauty and couldnt have been done without a comparison
of long standing information over a long period of
time. I also admit I love calculations but I hate to
constantly have to up-date in order to stay current in
my materials base. Why can't it just do the up-dating
for us??? Maybe someone will eventually build a
program that has auto up-dates built in that keep it
current based on the lastest finds and technology.
Then I can live more in the studio than on the
computer deciphering where everything goes.
William Edwards
=====
http://www.tallapoosariverpottery.com/
Bill Edwards
PO Box 267
Lafayette, AL, 36862
__________________________________________________
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Bill Edwards on tue 11 mar 03
Lily/others, I think your wrong but thats ok! Mid-Fire
porcelain should work just fine at describing it
without all the hoopla. Thats not confusing, nor
changing anything at all. The term is rather clear! I
also looked in Hamners and several other books I own
and I believe I am happy with the term given by
suppliers as mid-fire. Also I noticed where someone
was already fearing to reply and felt scolded. That
shouldn't be a practice. Questions are asked by those
from all walks of life and just because one person or
a few fill they have the answers does not define
absolute truth. This work and materials is ever
changing and clinging on to personl opinions is fine
till they are pushed into the laps of those in a
learning curve. The definitions and terms many of us
use are picked up from literature more so than clayart
and then are expressed here. Lets give people a chance
to feel out and express their needs prior to setting
them straight unless the terminology is so blantant
that a majority has expressed lack of understanding.
Maybe then progress in work can move forth?
Also there are differing expression from every corner
of the globe. Many may have the same meaning said in a
different way. So I simply disagree this time and
please don't take it personal. I enjoy the posts
myself but was also compelled to make a point too
since I see there are people who fear coming here for
information or making themselve known. Lets help each
other in every way possible and if you don't like the
term, just live with it and don't continue the drive
for changing it so hard, it will evolve on its own in
time. Being from the South we get lots of abuse about
our terms and how we use them. (Smiling)
I think I will now open my mid-fire porcelain and see
what I can do with it. I don't need to confuse it with
mid-fire white clay. I also have ^5/6 & ^10 B-Mix and
fire at 3 levels. High, mid and Raku.
Let me be clear that I enjoy all the differing views.
I also fear we hurt or slow progress in some ways by
being overly protective of personal ideas once we have
honed our skills and are named potters by whoever? I
am sure all of us (Me included) have strong feelings
about what we do since its done with much passion.
Passing on our knowledge and more importantly, our
love and concern builds better potters in the long
run!
William Edwards
=====
http://www.tallapoosariverpottery.com/
Bill Edwards
PO Box 267
Lafayette, AL, 36862
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
brian and lena haviland on tue 11 mar 03
Bill
Thank you for your post. I am very new to clayart and was starting to feel like maybe my posts would not be worth sending out there. My knowledge in ceramics is very limited now, but it is such an addiction and I find myself with my head and heart burried in books and digging into the internet to help supply this new passion with all the data i can absorb.I only wish i would have started this years ago. I'm so amazed by the knowledge you all poses and hope to someday be able to understand all the science and (luck in some cases)so i can join in on a thread and perhaps contribute something that will help someone thats just getting started like i am now.I plan on going to a continued education class at Indiana university and get a better understanding on glaze components and hopefully learn how to work insight glaze software. I love mastering ^6 book and have mixed two glazes waxwing and waterfall and i'm very pleased with the results.Anyway thanks Bill...and my questions will s
tart flowing along with my quiet opinions on things i feel i have a good understanding of or about.By the way Mid-fire #239 standard porc.RULES
From the city of Fountains
Brian Haviland
--
On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 05:35:04
Bill Edwards wrote:
>Lily/others, I think your wrong but thats ok! Mid-Fire
>porcelain should work just fine at describing it
>without all the hoopla. Thats not confusing, nor
>changing anything at all. The term is rather clear! I
>also looked in Hamners and several other books I own
>and I believe I am happy with the term given by
>suppliers as mid-fire. Also I noticed where someone
>was already fearing to reply and felt scolded. That
>shouldn't be a practice. Questions are asked by those
>from all walks of life and just because one person or
>a few fill they have the answers does not define
>absolute truth. This work and materials is ever
>changing and clinging on to personl opinions is fine
>till they are pushed into the laps of those in a
>learning curve. The definitions and terms many of us
>use are picked up from literature more so than clayart
>and then are expressed here. Lets give people a chance
>to feel out and express their needs prior to setting
>them straight unless the terminology is so blantant
>that a majority has expressed lack of understanding.
>Maybe then progress in work can move forth?
>Also there are differing expression from every corner
>of the globe. Many may have the same meaning said in a
>different way. So I simply disagree this time and
>please don't take it personal. I enjoy the posts
>myself but was also compelled to make a point too
>since I see there are people who fear coming here for
>information or making themselve known. Lets help each
>other in every way possible and if you don't like the
>term, just live with it and don't continue the drive
>for changing it so hard, it will evolve on its own in
>time. Being from the South we get lots of abuse about
>our terms and how we use them. (Smiling)
>I think I will now open my mid-fire porcelain and see
>what I can do with it. I don't need to confuse it with
>mid-fire white clay. I also have ^5/6 & ^10 B-Mix and
>fire at 3 levels. High, mid and Raku.
>Let me be clear that I enjoy all the differing views.
>I also fear we hurt or slow progress in some ways by
>being overly protective of personal ideas once we have
>honed our skills and are named potters by whoever? I
>am sure all of us (Me included) have strong feelings
>about what we do since its done with much passion.
>Passing on our knowledge and more importantly, our
>love and concern builds better potters in the long
>run!
>William Edwards
>
>=====
>http://www.tallapoosariverpottery.com/
>
>Bill Edwards
>PO Box 267
>Lafayette, AL, 36862
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
>http://webhosting.yahoo.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
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