Anne K. Wellings on wed 12 mar 03
After reading some posts in the archives, I decided I wanted to try some
Degussa Red stain. I asked a friend to pick up some for me. I wrote down
that I wanted Intensive Red, the name I had seen used in more than one
website and catalog, including those of this supplier. When the person at
the counter heard that I would be firing to ^6, he said "There's only one
red for ^6". When I looked at the stock number later, I saw that he had
sent me Bordeaux Red. (If I'd asked for the product by stock number
rather than name, I would have gotten what I was after.)
Today I called the supplier and, as luck would have it, got the same
person who had been at the counter (not the owner.) In a very
authoritative-sounding way, he told me that of the two Degussa reds, the
Bordeaux is the only one that is encapsulated in Zirconium and can go to
^6. This contradicts what I have read on Clayart and seen in the catalogs
and websites. It was my understanding that all four of the Degussa stains
use cadmium encapsulated in Zirconium and can go to ^6 and higher.
When I asked about food safety, I was told simply that the stain is food
safe. I understand that is what the manufacturer says, as did many of the
Clayart posts. But others still consider it unsafe, and John and Ron warn
in their book against using cadmium in glazes at all. I was planning to
test the stain in Ron and John's Glossy Base 1, and I'd like to think the
result will be food safe, but wonder if I should get it tested. (And some
mentioned kiln firing safety, cadmium fumes permeating the bricks, etc.)
I was of course told that I could swap the Bordeaux for the more intense
red. I may end up trying out the Bordeaux. Can anyone compare the two?
Maybe I'm asking this at the wrong time, since the glaze gurus are going
to NCECA. If anyone can shed light on any or all of this, I'd greatly
appreciate it. Do you think I was misinformed?
Anne
David Hendley on thu 13 mar 03
Anne, I am a bona fide glaze guru, and I am in Maydelle, not San Diego.
Degussa (Cerdac) does make red stains specifically for cone 9, which
have a different number than those made for cone 6.
The difference is that a "9" is added into the number, so you end up
with a product number with one more digit.
In practice, on the advice of my supplier, I have used both stains, with
and without the extra "9", in my cone 10 firings, and find that they both
work. So, it may be that your supplier had 2 reds in the cone 9 stain
series,
but only one red in the cone 6 series.
All 4 of the encapsulated stains, the 2 reds, yellow, and orange, can
be used at cone 10.
The differences between "Intensive Red" and "Bordeaux Red" are
not that great. "Intensive Red" is not more intense, just a different hue.
I would not use a cadmium stain in a glaze for food bearing surfaces,
in spite of the manufacturer's claim that it is safe when encapsulated.
If you want to do so, you should regularly have the glaze tested for
cadmium release.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> After reading some posts in the archives, I decided I wanted to try some
> Degussa Red stain. I asked a friend to pick up some for me. I wrote down
> that I wanted Intensive Red, the name I had seen used in more than one
> website and catalog, including those of this supplier. When the person at
> the counter heard that I would be firing to ^6, he said "There's only one
> red for ^6". When I looked at the stock number later, I saw that he had
> sent me Bordeaux Red. (If I'd asked for the product by stock number
> rather than name, I would have gotten what I was after.)
>
Mayssan Shora Farra on thu 13 mar 03
Hi
I use both colors under clear and they are both very intense and do not
fire off. The name of the color refers to the color with bourdeux being
darker and richer while the intense is real bright red.
As for safty I don't use them on functional so I never looked into it, I
think if you are going to use on food serving pieces you would want to
test them as you would be using them, to make sure of safety or at least
stability.
Mason stains now also make encapsulated colors which I ordered but have
not used yet so I cannot give an opinion.
Good luck with all your efforts.
Mayssan
http://www.clayvillepottery.com
Lois Ruben Aronow on thu 13 mar 03
On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:03:26 -0800, you wrote:
>After reading some posts in the archives, I decided I wanted to try some
>Degussa Red stain. I asked a friend to pick up some for me. I wrote down
>that I wanted Intensive Red, the name I had seen used in more than one
>website and catalog, including those of this supplier. When the person =
at
>the counter heard that I would be firing to ^6, he said "There's only =
one
>red for ^6". When I looked at the stock number later, I saw that he had
>sent me Bordeaux Red. (If I'd asked for the product by stock number
>rather than name, I would have gotten what I was after.)
There is indeed an intense Red - I just bought 2 lbs of the stuff from
Laguna. Their price is A LOT cheaper than Anxer. It is also referred
to a Cerdec stain. I use it and it goes to ^6. I am able to mix it
with a mason stain to get the red I want and it looks and wears just
fine.
The bordeaux red it more purple. The Intensive Red is more "lipstick"
--------------------------------------------
=46ine Craft Porcelain - New and Updated for 2003!!
http://www.loisaronow.com=20
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