Fredrick Paget on mon 17 mar 03
Well YES is the answer! You need a real heavy wire to carry 60 amps and
that is not in there for a 30 amp dryer circuit. Two 30 anp breakers , one
on each side of the 240 volt circuit equals a 30 amp circuit not a 60.
If you mess around and put in larger breakers and plugs you are in
violation of the National Electric Code and no building inspector is going
to approve it either. What may happen if you do it anyway, is to start a
fire and burn your place down. Do it right and rest easy.
Fred
> I have an electric kiln that I fire to cone 6, with an Orton AutoFire.
> When I bought it (used), I was told that it had to be hard wired. At the
>time, this was no problem. Now, I'm trying to set up a new studio in a house
>with older wiring (fuses for most of the house but breakers for washer &
>dryer, A/C) and the budget just won't allow for me to hire an electrician to
>put in another breaker box to give me the extra 60 amps the kiln requires.
> Is there any reason why I can't just buy a clothes dryer-type plug and
>attach that to the kiln's electrical wire? I have seen this type of plug on
>smaller kilns...does size matter? The dryer outlet is marked 125/250V and is
>on two 30 amp breakers. The kiln needs 240V, 60 amps. The plate on the
>front of the kiln also states 50-60 cycle A-C only...what does that mean?
> Thanks for any help,
From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA
Cher Gauvin on mon 17 mar 03
Hey All,
First of all, to all you lucky dogs that made it to NCECA, glad you
all had a wonderful time. Reading the posts makes me feel like I was almost
there...maybe next year.
I have an electric kiln that I fire to cone 6, with an Orton AutoFire.
When I bought it (used), I was told that it had to be hard wired. At the
time, this was no problem. Now, I'm trying to set up a new studio in a house
with older wiring (fuses for most of the house but breakers for washer &
dryer, A/C) and the budget just won't allow for me to hire an electrician to
put in another breaker box to give me the extra 60 amps the kiln requires.
Is there any reason why I can't just buy a clothes dryer-type plug and
attach that to the kiln's electrical wire? I have seen this type of plug on
smaller kilns...does size matter? The dryer outlet is marked 125/250V and is
on two 30 amp breakers. The kiln needs 240V, 60 amps. The plate on the
front of the kiln also states 50-60 cycle A-C only...what does that mean?
Thanks for any help,
Cher Gauvin
Jim Kasper on mon 17 mar 03
Cher,
The dryer outlet is rated for 30 amps. Your kiln draws ~50 amps.
This will not work. Sorry to say you must add a breaker.
I took a drywall saw and cut in a box directly below my panel conveniently
located in the garage. Then I only needed two feet of wire for the circuit.
AC only means: Typical houshold alternating current.
50-60 cycle means the frequency of the alternating current. In the US.
Electricity is supplied at 60 cycles per second (60 Hertz) .
Regards,
Jim Kasper
http://zafka.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Cher Gauvin
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 7:28 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Must kiln be hardwired?
Hey All,
First of all, to all you lucky dogs that made it to NCECA, glad you
all had a wonderful time. Reading the posts makes me feel like I was almost
there...maybe next year.
I have an electric kiln that I fire to cone 6, with an Orton
AutoFire.
When I bought it (used), I was told that it had to be hard wired. At the
time, this was no problem. Now, I'm trying to set up a new studio in a
house
with older wiring (fuses for most of the house but breakers for washer &
dryer, A/C) and the budget just won't allow for me to hire an electrician to
put in another breaker box to give me the extra 60 amps the kiln requires.
Is there any reason why I can't just buy a clothes dryer-type plug
and
attach that to the kiln's electrical wire? I have seen this type of plug on
smaller kilns...does size matter? The dryer outlet is marked 125/250V and is
on two 30 amp breakers. The kiln needs 240V, 60 amps. The plate on the
front of the kiln also states 50-60 cycle A-C only...what does that mean?
Thanks for any help,
Cher Gauvin
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Carl Finch on tue 18 mar 03
At 07:27 PM 3/17/03 -0500, Cher Gauvin wrote:
> I have an electric kiln that I fire to cone 6, with an Orton AutoFire.
> When I bought it (used), I was told that it had to be hard wired.
Hard wiring is likely to be more reliable. A plug-into-receptacle
connection *can* become worn, make poorer contact, heat up, make even
poorer contact, causing lower voltage and slower firing--and possibly
flames at the receptacle! But a great many kilns are not hard wired.
> At the
>time, this was no problem. Now, I'm trying to set up a new studio in a house
>with older wiring (fuses for most of the house but breakers for washer &
>dryer, A/C) and the budget just won't allow for me to hire an electrician to
>put in another breaker box to give me the extra 60 amps the kiln requires.
> Is there any reason why I can't just buy a clothes dryer-type plug and
>attach that to the kiln's electrical wire?
Yes, that 30 amp circuit in insufficient to power your kiln. You need a 60
amp breaker, wiring capable of carrying 60 amps, and a receptacle and plug
designed for 60 amps.
The breaker is a 'double.' Each switch will be labeled with a "60," and
the two switches will be tied together--it's a single unit. The wire
needed is gauge 6 (marked 6 AWG). I'm not familiar with the Orton
controller you've mentioned, but if it's like the Skutt's, it only requires
240 volts--that is, it does not need 120 volts as well. So you can use
2-conductor (plus bare ground).
The receptacle and plug for this are NEMA 6-50.
(If the controller *does* require 120v, then you'd need 3-conductor plus
ground--same 6 AWG. This is the way most electric dryers are wired--they
use the 240v for the heating elements, and the 120v for the controls and
any lights.)
If your kiln is to be some distance away from the breaker box (>50 feet),
Skutt recommends going to 4 AWG wire. These cable gauges are not easy to
work with. They're thick and bend with considerable reluctance!
Working in a breaker box is DANGEROUS! There are exposed conductors and
bus bars--some are 'hot' and some aren't! If your box does not have a
'main disconnect' (not uncommon in older installations) there is no way to
cut off power to it unless you do so at the meter. This is usually done by
'pulling' the meter (literally pulling it from its mounting).
By the way you've asked, I'm concerned that this project is a bit beyond
your current knowledge. There are certainly books available (Home Depot,
Lowe's, et al) that can explain how to add a 220v circuit, but I would
recommend some professional advice.
'Nother thought: it's even possible that your current *service* (the line
from the power pole to your house) is not adequate for this addition! The
max current of your service may be stamped on the breaker box (typically,
60, 100, or 200 amps), or the power company can tell you.
>I have seen this type of plug on smaller kilns...does size matter?
For sure, this is *one* case where size does, indeed, matter! :-)
Stay safe, Cher!
--Carl
Longtin, Jeff on tue 18 mar 03
"Hard wiring is likely to be more reliable. A plug-into-receptacle
connection *can* become worn, make poorer contact, heat up, make even
poorer contact, causing lower voltage and slower firing--and possibly
flames at the receptacle! But a great many kilns are not hard wired."
Cher,
Couple thoughts on what Carl mentions. The reason why kilns are often
shipped with plugs is that the plug, in essence, serves as the breaker
should you need to break the circuit. If I'm not mistaken, sometimes, when
kilns were only shipped ready to be hardwired, they were wired without
circuit breakers nearby. This was a no-no and very dangerous. Apparently
code, at least here in minnesota, requires a breaker near a high voltage
appliance. The plug serves as the emergency breaker if needed.
I have an old kiln, the electrician wired it into a circuit breaker near the
kiln, and the breaker box is about 30 ft away.
Also, make sure the electrian use 3 wires to hook up your kiln. I've seen
some installs where the conduit served as the ground, this is a really bad
idea, if not up to code. Should the conduit experience a disconnect, and
should you be standing in a pool of water, and should you touch the kiln
jacket...lets just say bad things can happen to good people!
Take care and be safe
Jeff Longtin
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Finch [mailto:hozho@MINDSPRING.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 2:45 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Must kiln be hardwired?
At 07:27 PM 3/17/03 -0500, Cher Gauvin wrote:
> I have an electric kiln that I fire to cone 6, with an Orton
AutoFire.
> When I bought it (used), I was told that it had to be hard wired.
Hard wiring is likely to be more reliable. A plug-into-receptacle
connection *can* become worn, make poorer contact, heat up, make even
poorer contact, causing lower voltage and slower firing--and possibly
flames at the receptacle! But a great many kilns are not hard wired.
> At the
>time, this was no problem. Now, I'm trying to set up a new studio in a
house
>with older wiring (fuses for most of the house but breakers for washer &
>dryer, A/C) and the budget just won't allow for me to hire an electrician
to
>put in another breaker box to give me the extra 60 amps the kiln requires.
> Is there any reason why I can't just buy a clothes dryer-type plug
and
>attach that to the kiln's electrical wire?
Yes, that 30 amp circuit in insufficient to power your kiln. You need a 60
amp breaker, wiring capable of carrying 60 amps, and a receptacle and plug
designed for 60 amps.
The breaker is a 'double.' Each switch will be labeled with a "60," and
the two switches will be tied together--it's a single unit. The wire
needed is gauge 6 (marked 6 AWG). I'm not familiar with the Orton
controller you've mentioned, but if it's like the Skutt's, it only requires
240 volts--that is, it does not need 120 volts as well. So you can use
2-conductor (plus bare ground).
The receptacle and plug for this are NEMA 6-50.
(If the controller *does* require 120v, then you'd need 3-conductor plus
ground--same 6 AWG. This is the way most electric dryers are wired--they
use the 240v for the heating elements, and the 120v for the controls and
any lights.)
If your kiln is to be some distance away from the breaker box (>50 feet),
Skutt recommends going to 4 AWG wire. These cable gauges are not easy to
work with. They're thick and bend with considerable reluctance!
Working in a breaker box is DANGEROUS! There are exposed conductors and
bus bars--some are 'hot' and some aren't! If your box does not have a
'main disconnect' (not uncommon in older installations) there is no way to
cut off power to it unless you do so at the meter. This is usually done by
'pulling' the meter (literally pulling it from its mounting).
By the way you've asked, I'm concerned that this project is a bit beyond
your current knowledge. There are certainly books available (Home Depot,
Lowe's, et al) that can explain how to add a 220v circuit, but I would
recommend some professional advice.
'Nother thought: it's even possible that your current *service* (the line
from the power pole to your house) is not adequate for this addition! The
max current of your service may be stamped on the breaker box (typically,
60, 100, or 200 amps), or the power company can tell you.
>I have seen this type of plug on smaller kilns...does size matter?
For sure, this is *one* case where size does, indeed, matter! :-)
Stay safe, Cher!
--Carl
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
william schran on tue 18 mar 03
Cher wrote:< Is there any reason why I can't just buy a clothes
dryer-type plug and
attach that to the kiln's electrical wire?>
I believe anything over 50 amps needs to be hard wired.
Bill
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