Snail Scott on sat 22 mar 03
I sympathize with the folks who are reluctant to aid
the 'competition' - the folks intending to import the
Chinese-made stoneware planters. Enough folks have
weighed in on that side of the argument that I feel
a need to play devil's advocate, though.
Are these items really your competition? If your work
is indistinguishable from these imports, except for
being more expensive, maybe it's time to reevaluate
the work you're doing. If the customer can't tell the
difference, then why should they pay more for yours?
Abstractions like 'buy domestic' or 'support handcraft'
carry only a limited weight.
We can't hold back the tide. A lot of things are no
longer made domestically, or by hand, and we don't
miss 'em. When I was a kid, my dad made our first color
TV by hand (mostly), spending hours every night for a
month soldering wires and testing vacuum tubes. I think
he enjoyed it, but a color TV can now be bought for a
few days' (minimum-wage) pay, and I can't think of a
single reason anyone ought to pay my dad to do the job.
He made a nice TV, but it wasn't 'better' in any way I
can think of. Satisfaction in a job well done is for
the maker; it carries no weight with the buyer, and why
should it?
I'm talking about making work that a buyer will WANT to
pay you to make, for an honest wage; work that isn't
identical to what's coming out of Asia by the container-
load. Trying to compete head-on with a foreign sweatshop
is a losing game. If you're trying to play it, quit!
Make work that can't be had from the mass-quantities
import dealer. You are doing handcraft because you love
it. Give the buyer a reason to love it, too!
-Snail
Tony Ferguson on sat 22 mar 03
Snail,
I agree with what you have said yet they are competitive in the sense that
they overall diminish the overall perceived value of work being made,
whatever it is. Most people will buy what is less expensive, ignoring who
made it, the quality, etc, etc.
It has been psychologically imprinted on the American public to buy cheap,
get a bargain. Do you think the less expensive Chinese steel (and poorer
quality) has affected the American steel industry? You bet it has. There
are thousands of steel workers up here that would agree who are scrambling
to find work. Do you think it will affect how much your car crunches if you
get into an accident. Yes.
With that said, I think you hit at the heart of making work: make someting
unique; and consequently, something the buyer will want to buy.
Tony
>
> We can't hold back the tide. A lot of things are no
> longer made domestically, or by hand, and we don't
> miss 'em. When I was a kid, my dad made our first color
> TV by hand (mostly), spending hours every night for a
> month soldering wires and testing vacuum tubes. I think
> he enjoyed it, but a color TV can now be bought for a
> few days' (minimum-wage) pay, and I can't think of a
> single reason anyone ought to pay my dad to do the job.
> He made a nice TV, but it wasn't 'better' in any way I
> can think of. Satisfaction in a job well done is for
> the maker; it carries no weight with the buyer, and why
> should it?
>
> I'm talking about making work that a buyer will WANT to
> pay you to make, for an honest wage; work that isn't
> identical to what's coming out of Asia by the container-
> load. Trying to compete head-on with a foreign sweatshop
> is a losing game. If you're trying to play it, quit!
> Make work that can't be had from the mass-quantities
> import dealer. You are doing handcraft because you love
> it. Give the buyer a reason to love it, too!
>
> -Snail
>
>
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Rikki Gill on sat 22 mar 03
But Snail, what about the possibility that someone uses you as an unpaid
designer, goes to a show, notices that people like your work, buys an item
sends it to an over-seas manufacturer, imports a quantity, undersells you,
stops you from selling the 'bread and butter' item that keeps food on your
table so you can also produce other, more artistic items. Emerging potters
need things that sell well, to keep afloat.
The injustice in this is noted by the U.S. government, and I do know at
least one potter who has sued, and won a large cash settlement. What
bothers me is that it is not just that the item is being copied, but that
they need the stylization that is uniquely ours to sell the same basic idea.
I would have no problem with imports or anything else, that was redisigned.
It is that they want to copy line for line, because we have worked our
little hearts out doing our own market research, going from show to show,
refining, honing our work. It is simply an injustice for ANYONE ,even our
fellow Americans, to knock us off.
I am now climbing off the soap box.
Best wishes Rikki
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snail Scott"
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2003 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: credit card machine (Chinese planters)
> I sympathize with the folks who are reluctant to aid
> the 'competition' - the folks intending to import the
> Chinese-made stoneware planters. Enough folks have
> weighed in on that side of the argument that I feel
> a need to play devil's advocate, though.
>
> Are these items really your competition? If your work
> is indistinguishable from these imports, except for
> being more expensive, maybe it's time to reevaluate
> the work you're doing. If the customer can't tell the
> difference, then why should they pay more for yours?
> Abstractions like 'buy domestic' or 'support handcraft'
> carry only a limited weight.
>
> We can't hold back the tide. A lot of things are no
> longer made domestically, or by hand, and we don't
> miss 'em. When I was a kid, my dad made our first color
> TV by hand (mostly), spending hours every night for a
> month soldering wires and testing vacuum tubes. I think
> he enjoyed it, but a color TV can now be bought for a
> few days' (minimum-wage) pay, and I can't think of a
> single reason anyone ought to pay my dad to do the job.
> He made a nice TV, but it wasn't 'better' in any way I
> can think of. Satisfaction in a job well done is for
> the maker; it carries no weight with the buyer, and why
> should it?
>
> I'm talking about making work that a buyer will WANT to
> pay you to make, for an honest wage; work that isn't
> identical to what's coming out of Asia by the container-
> load. Trying to compete head-on with a foreign sweatshop
> is a losing game. If you're trying to play it, quit!
> Make work that can't be had from the mass-quantities
> import dealer. You are doing handcraft because you love
> it. Give the buyer a reason to love it, too!
>
> -Snail
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Snail Scott on sat 22 mar 03
At 12:06 PM 3/22/03 -0800, you wrote:
>But Snail, what about the possibility that someone uses you as an unpaid
>designer, goes to a show, notices that people like your work, buys an item
>sends it to an over-seas manufacturer, imports a quantity, undersells you,
>stops you from selling the 'bread and butter' item that keeps food on your
>table so you can also produce other, more artistic items. Emerging potters
>need things that sell well, to keep afloat.
I wasn't addressing the issue of design theft and
copyright infringement, but since you asked: if
they copied your unique design, sue the bastards!
(If it wasn't unique anyway, then just move on.)
Suing only applies to those of us who can afford to,
of course, which is why I suggest making 'bread-and-
butter" items which don't resemble those mass-produced
items. This may mean changing your work to avoid the
similarity. Is that fair? Hell, no! But it may be
necessary, to stay afloat as a maker of handcrafted
objects in our era.
-Snail
Mert & Holly Kilpatrick on sun 23 mar 03
Rikki Gill wrote:
> But Snail, what about the possibility that someone uses you as an unpaid
> designer, goes to a show, notices that people like your work, buys an item
> sends it to an over-seas manufacturer....... It is simply an injustice
for >ANYONE ,even our fellow Americans, to knock us off.
I agree about the knockoffs. Charles' story about the possible knockoff's
of Bill Campbell's work was very interesting. As Snail says, sue 'em.
But this thread started with Mary Seyfarth's imported planters, Purple Clay
Imports. Their website can be found through Google, listed under the
orchidmall.com suppliers, and the pots don't look like knockoffs of American
pots. Planters carved with dragons and other traditionally Chinese designs.
The site says "Purple Clay Imports was started by three potters from
Chicago, Illinois who traveled to China in 2000. Our trip was a potter's
tour of northern China and after seeing factories and visiting with
individual artists in Yixing we fell in love with the styles and sizes of
functional pots produced in this region."
Holly
Rikki Gill on sun 23 mar 03
Actually, this thread started two messages earlier. The first was Wendy
Rosen's message about imported goods, and the second was from Owl pottery
and Carolynn's despair at seeing knock offs of her work at a mall.
I also wrote in that message that I have no quarrel with anyone who designs
their own, or redesigns someone else's idea.
It seems as if these people are importing original work, and that's fine
with me. But so often that is not the case, and we should think of how to
deal with this situation before it arises for us personally. Often people
react with helplessness. In order to protect myself, I chose my direction
long ago, with two or three things in mind. 1] decorations that blended
in with an occasional cobalt thumbprint of an inept assistant, 2]
decorations complex enough to discourage knock offs. 3] only trying to
develope my own ideas. When I did shows on the west coast, I
remember California potters being subjected to protectionist publicity in
the newspapers in Seattle. I can understand any potter trying to protect
their market. I can also envision a camaraderie that goes beyond borders.
That is only possible on a level that eschews theft of intellectual
property, which is where I place design. This is the way I see it. Rikki
Gill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mert & Holly Kilpatrick"
To:
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: credit card machine (Chinese planters)
> Rikki Gill wrote:
> > But Snail, what about the possibility that someone uses you as an unpaid
> > designer, goes to a show, notices that people like your work, buys an
item
> > sends it to an over-seas manufacturer....... It is simply an injustice
> for >ANYONE ,even our fellow Americans, to knock us off.
>
> I agree about the knockoffs. Charles' story about the possible knockoff's
> of Bill Campbell's work was very interesting. As Snail says, sue 'em.
>
> But this thread started with Mary Seyfarth's imported planters, Purple
Clay
> Imports. Their website can be found through Google, listed under the
> orchidmall.com suppliers, and the pots don't look like knockoffs of
American
> pots. Planters carved with dragons and other traditionally Chinese
designs.
> The site says "Purple Clay Imports was started by three potters from
> Chicago, Illinois who traveled to China in 2000. Our trip was a potter's
> tour of northern China and after seeing factories and visiting with
> individual artists in Yixing we fell in love with the styles and sizes of
> functional pots produced in this region."
>
> Holly
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
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