pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 28 mar 03
copper reds - now 'Rust' and Tetanus concerns...
Dear Rikki!
While it may be true that 'Rust' never sleeps...
It is not true that it may cause Tetanus, Trismus, 'Lock
Jaw' or Tetany.
If memory serve, Tetanus is condition caused by (one's
reaction to) an opportunistic infestation or infection in
some small cut, lesion or punture having been entered by the
bacillus or bacterium known as the pesky 'Clostridium
tetani'...
Sometimes the 'tetany' were confused with the 'tetanus'
oweing to similarity of symptoms, (neck and jaw
contractions, spasms, or more global contractions, spasms
etc...) but it is instead thought to arise from one's
deficiencies on certain Calcium compounds.
Anyway, the Bacterium normally reside in soils, can be
drought tolerant, and may in some of it's life stages be
carried in the winds or breezes.
Animals as graze to the roots or soil's surface may pass the
bacteria in their fecies, which then are a vector, or whose
particulates being wind borne, may be. Hence often
associated with 'Horses' or other ruminants.
The association with 'rust' is apocryphal, and no more
likely as a prospect than an association with outdoor Wood
or other materials as on which may be deposited such wind
borne particulates.
Soils are understood to be the natural abode of the little
organism.
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rikki Gill"
To:
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: dirty water, celadon, copper reds
> Hi Lily,
> Very interesting idea, but rust can cause tetanus, and not
everyone gets
> tetanus shots [or any other kind] these days.
>
>
> From Rikki in Berkeley
>
>
> rikigil@cwnet.com
> www.berkeleypotters.com
> www.goldengateceramics.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lily Krakowski"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 5:39 AM
> Subject: dirty water, celadon, copper reds
>
>
> > As I will never get to do this, I throw myself on the
curiosity of others.
> > The curiosity of strangers....
> >
> > It has long been my belief, an instinctual one, really,
that many celadons
> > and copper reds were achieved accidentally, through
"dirty" water.
> >
> > I have read that teensy amounts of iron in porcelain
can affect celadons,
> > and I have seen (where?) recipes for celadon that demand
a teensy amount
> of
> > red clay in the white body.
> >
> > I also have read that copper sulphate (phide?) was
achieved by putting
> bits
> > of copper in old wine casks, with water added, and the
acid dissolved the
> > copper. (All apologies to the Ivans on the list who
actually know the
> > technical terms. ) I tried that by putting bits of
copper in vinegar and
> it
> > did work....
> >
> > Ok. Now all of us are familiar with verdigris on the
teakettle....So
> copper
> > does "dissolve" in normal circumstances.
> >
> > My point is that I have a suspicion that if one mixes a
porcelain body
> with
> > rusty water, or uses rusty water to throw with, and then
to mix ones
> glazes
> > with, a celadon would be achieved. I don't mean rusty
as in "Mommy,
> mommy,
> > there's coffee coming out of the tap!" but as in
"Doesn't the water look
> > nasty..."
> >
> > My suspicion also is that if one kept water in brass or
copper tubs and
> used
> > that water to mix glazes, one would achieve copper
reds....One might even
> > achieve them by slacked white clay in copper "vessels"
(ooooh, she used
> that
> > word!) for recycling and recycling and recycling...
> >
> > Why do I toss this out now? Because the times are
parlous. But Spring is
> in
> > the air.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lili Krakowski
> > P.O. Box #1
> > Constableville, N.Y.
> > (315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
> >
> > Be of good courage....
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
funkfamily on fri 28 mar 03
copper reds - now 'Rust' and Tetanus concerns...
The association with rust comes mostly from the fact that old nails, barbed
wire, etc. are often rusty. It's the old stuff that carries the tetanus
bug, mostly it lives in the soil and in the hair of livestock. Also notable
is that tetanii is an anaerobic bacterium, which is why it comes from
puncture wounds. It cannot live in the presence of oxygen (read- open
cuts), but loves to be introduced into punctures where it is inoculated,
then closed over, where it can incubate away from oxygen.. It cannot be
spread by drinking rusty water, any more than by handling iron oxide (same
stuff).
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: dirty water, celadon, copper reds - now 'Rust' and Tetanus
concerns...
> Dear Rikki!
>
> While it may be true that 'Rust' never sleeps...
>
> It is not true that it may cause Tetanus, Trismus, 'Lock
> Jaw' or Tetany.
>
> If memory serve, Tetanus is condition caused by (one's
> reaction to) an opportunistic infestation or infection in
> some small cut, lesion or punture having been entered by the
> bacillus or bacterium known as the pesky 'Clostridium
> tetani'...
>
> Sometimes the 'tetany' were confused with the 'tetanus'
> oweing to similarity of symptoms, (neck and jaw
> contractions, spasms, or more global contractions, spasms
> etc...) but it is instead thought to arise from one's
> deficiencies on certain Calcium compounds.
>
> Anyway, the Bacterium normally reside in soils, can be
> drought tolerant, and may in some of it's life stages be
> carried in the winds or breezes.
> Animals as graze to the roots or soil's surface may pass the
> bacteria in their fecies, which then are a vector, or whose
> particulates being wind borne, may be. Hence often
> associated with 'Horses' or other ruminants.
>
> The association with 'rust' is apocryphal, and no more
> likely as a prospect than an association with outdoor Wood
> or other materials as on which may be deposited such wind
> borne particulates.
>
> Soils are understood to be the natural abode of the little
> organism.
>
> Phil
> Las Vegas
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rikki Gill"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 7:36 AM
> Subject: Re: dirty water, celadon, copper reds
>
>
> > Hi Lily,
> > Very interesting idea, but rust can cause tetanus, and not
> everyone gets
> > tetanus shots [or any other kind] these days.
> >
> >
> > From Rikki in Berkeley
> >
> >
> > rikigil@cwnet.com
> > www.berkeleypotters.com
> > www.goldengateceramics.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lily Krakowski"
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 5:39 AM
> > Subject: dirty water, celadon, copper reds
> >
> >
> > > As I will never get to do this, I throw myself on the
> curiosity of others.
> > > The curiosity of strangers....
> > >
> > > It has long been my belief, an instinctual one, really,
> that many celadons
> > > and copper reds were achieved accidentally, through
> "dirty" water.
> > >
> > > I have read that teensy amounts of iron in porcelain
> can affect celadons,
> > > and I have seen (where?) recipes for celadon that demand
> a teensy amount
> > of
> > > red clay in the white body.
> > >
> > > I also have read that copper sulphate (phide?) was
> achieved by putting
> > bits
> > > of copper in old wine casks, with water added, and the
> acid dissolved the
> > > copper. (All apologies to the Ivans on the list who
> actually know the
> > > technical terms. ) I tried that by putting bits of
> copper in vinegar and
> > it
> > > did work....
> > >
> > > Ok. Now all of us are familiar with verdigris on the
> teakettle....So
> > copper
> > > does "dissolve" in normal circumstances.
> > >
> > > My point is that I have a suspicion that if one mixes a
> porcelain body
> > with
> > > rusty water, or uses rusty water to throw with, and then
> to mix ones
> > glazes
> > > with, a celadon would be achieved. I don't mean rusty
> as in "Mommy,
> > mommy,
> > > there's coffee coming out of the tap!" but as in
> "Doesn't the water look
> > > nasty..."
> > >
> > > My suspicion also is that if one kept water in brass or
> copper tubs and
> > used
> > > that water to mix glazes, one would achieve copper
> reds....One might even
> > > achieve them by slacked white clay in copper "vessels"
> (ooooh, she used
> > that
> > > word!) for recycling and recycling and recycling...
> > >
> > > Why do I toss this out now? Because the times are
> parlous. But Spring is
> > in
> > > the air.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lili Krakowski
> > > P.O. Box #1
> > > Constableville, N.Y.
> > > (315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
> > >
> > > Be of good courage....
> > >
> > >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> ________________
> > __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
> at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> > >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> __________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
> at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Jeanne Ormsby on sat 29 mar 03
copper reds - now 'Rust' and Tetanus concerns...
Tetanus bacteria are killed by oxygen. If the soil has tetanus bacteria,
rust on a nail, shovel, etc is a common place to harbor the bacteria
because the bacteria can grow in the rust, which excludes oxygen. Rust is
iron oxide. The best way to avoid tetanus is to be vaccinated, and anyone
who works with soil, including clay and garden soil, should be very sure to
keep their vaccinations up to date. Here is a link to some basic facts:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/tetanus.pdf
Somehow I survived growing up on a farm, thanks to my mom's care in making
sure I was vaccinated. I certainly managed to step on enough nails, etc.
Jeanne
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