John Jensen on fri 28 mar 03
Inspired by some of the recent discussion about throwing dry, I decided
to do a little dry throwing. I've done it before, having been a little
impressed with myself to be able to do it; but somehow the habit hasn't
taken hold. Today I found no difficulty in throwing dry, except having
to go just a bit slower. There is a nice sense of the pure clay and the
undisturbed throwing marks; but other than that, I'm not sure why I'd
want to do it. Throwing with a wet surface seems so much faster and I
don't use enough water to make the clay significantly softer. I also
suspect that very thin forms would tend to twist when throwing dry, but
maybe that is just a skill thing.
So. What's the point?
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
iandol on sat 29 mar 03
Dear John Jensen=20
Three little words
Higher.....Thinner......Wider
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Lily Krakowski on sat 29 mar 03
I think the word is fastidiousness. I "grew up" on a German style kickwheel
and unless one throws dry one has thighs and crotch full of mud.
At my present Brent ( I throw standing up now) if I throw wet I have a face
and chest full of mud. Mud covered clothes and wheels and spattered floors
end up very quickly being dry-mud covered clothes and wheels and floors,
thence to clay dust ....
John Jensen writes:
> Inspired by some of the recent discussion about throwing dry, I decided
> to do a little dry throwing. I've done it before, having been a little
> impressed with myself to be able to do it; but somehow the habit hasn't
> taken hold. Today I found no difficulty in throwing dry, except having
> to go just a bit slower. There is a nice sense of the pure clay and the
> undisturbed throwing marks; but other than that, I'm not sure why I'd
> want to do it. Throwing with a wet surface seems so much faster and I
> don't use enough water to make the clay significantly softer. I also
> suspect that very thin forms would tend to twist when throwing dry, but
> maybe that is just a skill thing.
> So. What's the point?
>
> John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
> mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Lili Krakowski
P.O. Box #1
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
Ned Ludd on sat 29 mar 03
John Jensen wrote
>Throwing with a wet surface seems so much faster and I
> > don't use enough water to make the clay significantly softer. I also
>> suspect that very thin forms would tend to twist when throwing dry, but
>> maybe that is just a skill thing.
>> So. What's the point?
>>
>> John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
> > mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
> >
Good question. I recall a potter at a co-op I worked in some years
ago, who specialised in throwing very large, if not giant, vases that
he raku fired. He used very firm clay and threw with minimal water.
When finished on the wheel his forms were from two to three feet
tall. His method was to work on several pots at once,
throwing/shaping a few minutes with one, setting it aside and putting
the next one on his wheel and throwing/shaping that for a few minutes
and so on, with a batch of about ten in all. He did not trim much if
at all. They were light when hefted afterwards. He used a well
grogged and open body, and employed ribs, though whether on the
inside as well as the outside I forget. He almost never emptied his
Brent's splash pan.
I think that a professional thrower used to making bigware in
quantity - a dying breed in the West if not already passed away -
could have achieved the same size and forms more quickly with a
non-dry technique. But that level of skill doesn't come to all
potters. We are not all Svend Bayers, Todd Pikers and Mark Hewitts,
nor need we be to make our own beautiful forms ... As for the rest
of us, whenever we want to go _extra_ big on the wheel, and keep firm
control, this is one way to get there.
best
Ned
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far
one can go.
-T. S. Eliot
Mitch Kotula on sun 30 mar 03
I guess this discussion is a corallary to the "I can
center/throw bigger than you" game some play as
eliteist potters.
Ever watch Robin Hopper throw? Peek at one of his
videos if you haven't.
What would he say about throwing dry?
Do what you are comfortable with. There is no one
right way to work clay around a hole.
Mitch
=====
Mitch Kotula
Development Plus
PO Box 2076
Hamilton, MT 59840-4076
406-961-5136 (Home)
406-546-6980 (Cell)
__________________________________________________
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Steve Mills on sun 30 mar 03
In message , Lily Krakowski writes
>I think the word is fastidiousness. I "grew up" on a German style kickwheel
>and unless one throws dry one has thighs and crotch full of mud.
>At my present Brent ( I throw standing up now) if I throw wet I have a face
>and chest full of mud. Mud covered clothes and wheels and spattered floors
>end up very quickly being dry-mud covered clothes and wheels and floors,
>thence to clay dust ....
Perhaps there is an advantage in the British habit of throwing in a
puddle in a plastic tray! :-)
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Rod on sun 30 mar 03
Mitch,
When Robin throws at demonstrations he throws quite wet, yes. But if you
like I did many years ago went and picked up one of those vessels you would
you - touch that's heavy. Now I don't think Robin throws quite like that in
his studio in Metchosin but then in Metchosoin he does not have to throw as
FAST to entertain say a group of 200 people. If you understand what I'm
getting at...
Now throwing dry is taken to the extremes when the lovable bear Randy
Brodnax throws. If you have seen him throw his spherical forms you defiantly
know what I mean.
All in all I think that the throwing wet throwing dry argument is somewhat
foolish. One should take the road that suits maybe not their throwing style
but the vessel\form that they are attempting to achieve.
For example when throwing mugs is there any reason to throw dry? If your
throwing 200-300 a day you are more than likely clawing them up in one pull.
There is no need to throw dry. The pot is done in an instant. If you are
throwing a medium large vase say out of 15-20 pounds of clay and you want to
belly the form out then you need to throw drier.
Another thing to keep in mind and I think Mel and some of the other
experienced potters would probably agree is that if you are throwing a form
that you know VERY WELL, it mostly does not matter how wet or dry you throw
the form. If you can complete the form in 3 pulls then you can be standing
in a puddle of mud if that is your fancy. Such direct throwing requires a
fair amount of lubrication. There are times when throwing a large vase in
3-4 pulls you will find that as you are bellying out the form, it is so
rapid that the walls thin very quickly but you still have maybe 10 Lbs. of
clay above your hands. If you just stopped that fairly rapidly moving wheel
in the middle of the pull the vessel would collapse. So the idea is when you
are throwing in this style that the wheel is moving rapidly and your
interior hand is quite literally supporting the weight of the clay above it.
It is in fact resting on the top of your hand whilst your fingers shape\thin
the walls below. This is a different style of throwing! It is very direct-
there is no messing about for 2 hours with one pot. To throw this way you
have to not be attached to every vessel you throw and be willing to lose
hundreds (maybe thousands) of pots until you have the finesse' to throw so
quickly and directly. Not all forms can be thrown this way either so again
you must have the experience.
So what I think is ever so IMPORTANT here is that beginning potters should
not be overly beguiled by throwing dry. They should probably be trying to
use less water and that is so hard to gauge in a letter. But the best way to
do it is every time you throw and when your about to dip your hand in that
bucket of water, before you do, run your hands on the inside and outside of
that pot and say to yourself - Can I do another pull without that extra
water? Make it a habit to use the least amount of water that is possible for
the form that you are making, your level of skill and then finally your
style. Don't let water control your style whether it is throwing wet or dry.
everything is possible,
Rod
RedIron Studios
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Mitch Kotula
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 9:12 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Throwing Dry. Why?
>
>
> I guess this discussion is a corallary to the "I can
> center/throw bigger than you" game some play as
> eliteist potters.
>
> Ever watch Robin Hopper throw? Peek at one of his
> videos if you haven't.
>
> What would he say about throwing dry?
>
> Do what you are comfortable with. There is no one
> right way to work clay around a hole.
>
> Mitch
>
>
> =====
> Mitch Kotula
> Development Plus
> PO Box 2076
> Hamilton, MT 59840-4076
> 406-961-5136 (Home)
> 406-546-6980 (Cell)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> ____________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
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