Donna Nicholas on sat 29 mar 03
There is a story about a Chinese potter who, desperate to get the =
perfect copper red, threw himself into the kiln and, of course, achieved =
it post-mortem.
Does anyone on the list know if this story is just that or if there is =
any basis for it in fact? I would appreciate any information, names, =
dates, places that you can offer.
Thanks, Donna
Elizabeth Priddy on sat 29 mar 03
As I understand it, this myth comes from a strange translation glitch. The way some reds in anagama type dragon kilns get their red is from animal bone ash/blood. Which would make it red iron oxide reds. (I have a great one in electric) It got glommed into it being the potter himself. But your chem wiz's here could help you figure if bone ash and blood have anything that makes red.
Donna Nicholas wrote:There is a story about a Chinese potter who, desperate to get the perfect copper red, threw himself into the kiln and, of course, achieved it post-mortem.
Does anyone on the list know if this story is just that or if there is any basis for it in fact? I would appreciate any information, names, dates, places that you can offer.
Thanks, Donna
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satschannen on sat 29 mar 03
That is an old story and one that went around the clayart some years
ago. I'm not it is true but the version I heard was that they threw a
pig into the kiln to impress the Emperor of that era and all the gore
created the red...chinese red...glaze....Someone will come up with the
real story I'm sure. Never heard the actual factuals.....
Hank Murrow on sat 29 mar 03
On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 01:36 PM, Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
> As I understand it, this myth comes from a strange translation glitch.
> The way some reds in anagama type dragon kilns get their red is from
> animal bone ash/blood. Which would make it red iron oxide reds. (I
> have a great one in electric) It got glommed into it being the potter
> himself. But your chem wiz's here could help you figure if bone ash
> and blood have anything that makes red.
>
> Donna Nicholas wrote:There is a story about a
> Chinese potter who, desperate to get the perfect copper red, threw
> himself into the kiln and, of course, achieved it post-mortem.
> Does anyone on the list know if this story is just that or if there is
> any basis for it in fact? I would appreciate any information, names,
> dates, places that you can offer.
> Thanks, Donna
>
It is the Phosphorus in bone ash that provides a micro-crystalline
network (if not too glossy) within which the iron can re-oxidize to
form those reddish surfaces. The blood might contribute some organics
for burning out during the fire. Pretty in consequential, I imagine.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
Vince Pitelka on sat 29 mar 03
> Donna Nicholas wrote:There is a story about a Chinese
potter who, desperate to get the perfect copper red, threw himself into the
kiln and, of course, achieved it post-mortem.
Donna -
I have always heard a different variation on that story, but I cannot
validate either of them. The variation I heard is that a Chinese potter
attempting to vary the colors on his glazes and clays was experimenting with
different stoking patterns, and upon unloading one kiln he discovered a
beautiful red pot, probably what was intended to be a copper green or a
variation on a celadon with a little copper oxide added. He immediately
took the red pot to the Emperor's agents, and received an audience with the
Emperor himself because of the beauty of this pot. The Emperor commanded
"You shall be one of my imperial potters, and you shall spend your career
producing these beautiful red pots." The potter was of course delighted,
but then he faced his delemma and his demon. He did not know what he had
done to achieve this red. He went back to his studio and his kiln and
worked in vain for months to reproduce the red pot, but to no avail. In
desperation he committed suicide by throwing himself into the firemouth of
the kiln, and the resulting kilnload was filled with beautiful copper reds.
Personally I think this is pretty hokie. During the latter Song and the
Yuan Dynasties potters experimented with copper wash applied over clear and
celadon glazes, giving wispy, cloudy copper red effects. In doing so, they
apparently discovered that very little copper is needed to achieve the
effect, and that if more copper is used you get green, or you get dark
copper oxide precipitating on the surface of the glaze. During the Ming
Dynasty potters finally experimented with adding the copper to the glaze
recipe, and achieved very fine copper reds on porcelain, with that delicious
white ring on the rim where the glaze deposits thin and goes clear.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Earl Brunner on sun 30 mar 03
In "A Potters Companion" by Ronald Larsen there are several similar
stories.
One, is actually science fiction set in the future on another world.
"The Potters of Firsk" By Jack Vance
Two, a story called "Pale Pink Porcelain" by Frank Owen has one potter
throwing his rival for a woman, into the kiln
Third, "The Tale of the Porcelain-God" by Lafcadio Hearn
In all three stories someone ends up in the kiln and the resultant
firing changes the results of the firing. None of them actually are
about copper reds. It's possible that each of the authors are basing
their stories on some earlier version.
Vince Pitelka wrote:
>> Donna Nicholas wrote:There is a story about a Chinese
>
> potter who, desperate to get the perfect copper red, threw himself into the
> kiln and, of course, achieved it post-mortem.
>
> Donna -
> I have always heard a different variation on that story, but I cannot
> validate either of them. The variation I heard is that a Chinese potter
> attempting to vary the colors on his glazes and clays was experimenting with
> different stoking patterns, and upon unloading one kiln he discovered a
> beautiful red pot, probably what was intended to be a copper green or a
> variation on a celadon with a little copper oxide added. He immediately
> took the red pot to the Emperor's agents, and received an audience with the
> Emperor himself because of the beauty of this pot. The Emperor commanded
> "You shall be one of my imperial potters, and you shall spend your career
> producing these beautiful red pots." The potter was of course delighted,
> but then he faced his delemma and his demon. He did not know what he had
> done to achieve this red.
Karin Abromaitis on sun 30 mar 03
And I thought it was that his body (as additional fuel) just boosted the =
reduction in the kiln at the right time for copper reds. That's the grea=
t thing about myths-they allow all interpretations!
Mostly lurking
Karin in MD
----- Original Message -----
From: Hank Murrow
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 9:55 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Copper Reds/Self Immolation
On Saturday, March 29, 2003, at 01:36 PM, Elizabeth Priddy wrote:
> As I understand it, this myth comes from a strange translation glitch.
> The way some reds in anagama type dragon kilns get their red is from
> animal bone ash/blood. Which would make it red iron oxide reds. (I
> have a great one in electric) It got glommed into it being the potter
> himself. But your chem wiz's here could help you figure if bone ash
> and blood have anything that makes red.
>
> Donna Nicholas wrote:There is a story about a
> Chinese potter who, desperate to get the perfect copper red, threw
> himself into the kiln and, of course, achieved it post-mortem.
> Does anyone on the list know if this story is just that or if there is
> any basis for it in fact? I would appreciate any information, names,
> dates, places that you can offer.
> Thanks, Donna
>
It is the Phosphorus in bone ash that provides a micro-crystalline
network (if not too glossy) within which the iron can re-oxidize to
form those reddish surfaces. The blood might contribute some organics
for burning out during the fire. Pretty in consequential, I imagine.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
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You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
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k.com.
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