Lily Krakowski on mon 14 apr 03
I agree with you, Mel, as with Kevin Hluch (March 2003 Ceramics Monthly
"Comment".) It is an awful situation.
I used to "argue" with my stepfather (served in British Army in Flanders,
WWI) whether Western Civilization ended in those trenches, or at Auschwitz.
He argued the former, I the latter. I now see he was right.
Our society has rejected the very notion of values. Manners. Morality. We
are afraid to condemn, we are afraid to say: "This is intolerable." We have
explained away all difference between Good and Bad, in just about
everything, at just about every level. From personal behavior to food.
Pandering to immature notions of "equality", the culture has abandonned
all criteria. Neither parents nor teachers dare forbid children dreadful
behaviors. To say: "The way we do it is better" is considered
"discriminatory". To "discriminate" is a malum per se--even if it only means
one should not pick one's nose in public, or use the "f" word to someone who
bumps into you on the street!
Where once performers at concerts wore evening dress, or, at the Grand
Ol'Opry, wore beautiful country style clothes, today performers wear tank
tops (i.e. men's undershirts/vests) at best and ratty underwear at worst.
The society does not even begin to ask why a Jessie Norman (I think her the
most gorgeous woman in the world, with an incredible voice) is fully dressed
on stage, and her success not dimmed by it, and is paid a pittance compared
to Miss Tiddlie Wink, the Rock Star, who struts her fore-and-aft silicone
while screeching hideous music... and making millions.
Art has become a dirty word because college-educated and powerful people
defend the disgusting, and demand it be “funded” and displayed by
tax-supported or assisted institutions. And anyone who expresses anger or
revulsion is called demeaning names.
Why should the Insulted support the Intolerable? Because smart-aleck
self-appointed elites tell them to?
Potters, well those of my generation, do not consider themselves Artistes.
We make stuff out of clay, make it well, make it the best we can. We do not
try to shock, we make teapots to pour tea for the Rabbi or the next door
neighbor. We know that certain body parts would be amusing models for
teapots, but we do not demand the taxpayer underwrite us in making or
displaying them. We make pots for an audience we have selected, which we
try to please, and we rejoice when they accept us and support us. We are the
craftsmen--the maintainers of the earth as Ecclesiasticus says. And we need
to assert ourselves and act responsibly.
Talleyrand --was it he?-- is said to have said, when asked what he did
during the [French] Revolution: "I lived." Well, Mel, when someone asks you
what you did during the turn of the century, you can reply: "I was an
adult."
Bless you for it.
Lili Krakowski
Kay Howard & Phil Chaban on mon 14 apr 03
Mel:
Amen
Kay in Grass Lake
artimater on mon 14 apr 03
yep yep yep I agree with the sorrying state of the art....Tom Wolfe =
proved logically, in "The Painted Word" that the only case for valid art =
could only be what is inside the artist's head....Anything beyond that =
is a bastardization of the real thing....If you follow his reasoning you =
must realize the futility of the "latest trend".....As Vince would say, =
"Hogwash".....Some seem to think they can disprove his thesis by =
bringing to their work the most outrageous...Well they are wrong....they =
end up with outrageous and nothing more....I think what TW did is free =
us all to pick and choose from the best of the past .....The entire =
wheel does not need reinventing on every piece....
It's like trying to make a good car if you had never seen a car =
before....The very best possible would and could only be a poor example =
of carness.....Art is the same....If on the other hand you are free to =
pick and choose from all the best in the entire history of art to =
incorporate and practice practice practice until each and every precious =
lick is from the heart and soul and NOT the feeble brain THEN a decent =
piece of fine art can be the result on occasion...
All the little emperors would like to think that talk and mental =
gymnastics make art....They are wrong .....Work makes art....It is =
better if you make a big mess and get your hands dirty....Artists whose =
hands are baby soft are not artists....I like to call them posers, =
pontificators, and peacocks(and other good Pee words)...Their art sucks =
and you won't find it at my house next to Marta's little cup...Or =
David's screw top bottle...Or Lela's creamer...I have heard that some of =
it makes a fair doorstop though...If you turn it upside down...and paint =
it black.... and hit it with a stick...
PAX,
Rush
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
http://artimator.com
rush@artimator.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/texasceramics/
Artimator Galleries
2420 Briarwood Ln.
Carrollton, TX 75006
972-841-1857
Tom Sawyer on tue 15 apr 03
While we all decry the wastefulness and irreparability of what happened
in the Baghdad museums, it can give direction. Collectively as a
society, we now have within our grasp the opportunity to "preserve"
works of art like never before in the history of the world. Much as we
are now banking DNA from a myriad of animal species, we are
technologically capable of preserving many art works from future
disasters. We can with digital means capture 3 dimensional pictures of
objects such as pottery and there is already technology that would allow
for the making of these 3 dimensional objects from computer driven
programs. Yes, I realize its not the same thing but how much better off
than the broken and missing shards in Baghdad. I have been encouraged of
recent years with the number of graphic items museums all over the world
are placing on line; while these are 2 dimensional for the most part we
are just at the beginning. Where will technology be in 3000?
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
Rikki Gill on tue 15 apr 03
On the junk pile with everything else, if today is any indication.
From Rikki in Berkeley
rikigil@cwnet.com
www.berkeleypotters.com
www.goldengateceramics.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Sawyer"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: broken art
> While we all decry the wastefulness and irreparability of what happened
> in the Baghdad museums, it can give direction. Collectively as a
> society, we now have within our grasp the opportunity to "preserve"
> works of art like never before in the history of the world. Much as we
> are now banking DNA from a myriad of animal species, we are
> technologically capable of preserving many art works from future
> disasters. We can with digital means capture 3 dimensional pictures of
> objects such as pottery and there is already technology that would allow
> for the making of these 3 dimensional objects from computer driven
> programs. Yes, I realize its not the same thing but how much better off
> than the broken and missing shards in Baghdad. I have been encouraged of
> recent years with the number of graphic items museums all over the world
> are placing on line; while these are 2 dimensional for the most part we
> are just at the beginning. Where will technology be in 3000?
>
> Tom Sawyer
> tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
>
>
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> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
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melpots@pclink.com.
>
Rikki Gill on tue 15 apr 03
I think people fail to realize that the old has to give way to the new.
Never a welcome thought, but without that, nothing would ever change. This
is most readily seen in the way each generation has its own music. Slang
changes every few years, and older slang dates you as obsolete, or dated
[groovy, for example] . Art also has to move over, and give new artists
their day. Only time really gets to choose those artists who will remain,
or dissappear. Somethings become art because they don't dissappear.
Heroic, ancient sculpture, for example. When they first were put in place,
I am sure many locals thought they were ugly, or inappropriate. That is how
people are. But over time, what remains is valued, [usually] and considered
a cherished part of our history.
I think that it is okay to tolerate new stuff, and maybe even learn to love
it, and maybe precisely because it is strange at first. It's good to have
to stretch a little. Keeps you alive.
From Rikki in Berkeley
rikigil@cwnet.com
www.berkeleypotters.com
www.goldengateceramics.com
artimater on wed 16 apr 03
Janet wrote:
Or are they
just jealous that some are better at the form-filling than they are? =
That
some can make a decent living playing the system
Oh yes, that has to be the qualities all art oriented should strive =
for.......And for good measure, all should bone up on ass kissing...Then =
the definition of fine artist could be ....
good at form filling sniveling conniving and ass kissing....To hell with =
anything approaching skill or experience...As Dale Tex said, that pony =
don't run with anyone except fellow ass kissing sniveling conniver form =
fillers...It is also sad that the government subsidized art machines =
effectively quash any hope of anyone who would aspire to anything more =
than ass kissing sniveling conniving and form filling...
Vince wrote:
Are there artists and artwork that are about
hype/scam/ripoff? Of course there are, because there is abundant
hype/scam/ripoff in our culture today. What could be more appropriate? =
Are
there artists who work hard to milk the system? Of course there are,
because there are always people trying to milk any system. Again, it is =
a
reflection and illumination of problems in our contemporary culture.
OK Vince, how about you try to make a living off your artwork instead of =
your current source of income?HEHEHE....BIG CHANGE of fortune, huh?....
The art of America would be much more lasting and meaningful if all =
those hooty fruity art shows were shut down...Imagine art judged by it's =
content and merit and skill!....There would be far less "artists" and =
the art produced would have a rightful place in history....It is pretty =
damn telling that people who buy crap from Walmart laugh and condemn the =
efforts of the art biz....Damn right there are problems in society, but =
why is it a good thing for artists to queue up and contribute to the =
problem?....Artists have a chance at reminding people of values that =
sustain...I think we might all be better off if some of us decided to be =
part of the solution...
Of course I don't expect the money for nothing crowd will be likely =
to give up their positions...Imagine all them having to produce work of =
merit instead of good paperwork...Since I refused to play games with =
something as precious as my gifts, I have been doomed to never realize =
any kind of support...Alas my work has no pedigree...Alas it will cost a =
buyer more than machine made sweatshop work...There will be some product =
though, and I have found it to be treasured and cherished and not =
ridiculed by those who have possession of it...I know of at least two =
divorces where there was contention for custody....With the crap you =
wanna uphold, the combatants would be saying, "I'll take the couch; you =
take the bottle of piss"
PAX, =20
Rush
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
http://artimator.com
rush@artimator.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/texasceramics/
Artimator Galleries
2420 Briarwood Ln.
Carrollton, TX 75006
972-841-1857
Elca Branman on fri 18 apr 03
Interesting how differently people perceive and/or handle a discussion.
I am never snide by accident, and I generally try to present my better
self, the non-snotty one.
This "discussion" is verging on ,dare I say it, "if you disagree with me,
you are a ---------(fill in the blanks.
I really like strong opinions but always hope for civility when peers
disagree.
Elca
(You had better agree with me about this , or I will insult you!!.)
Elca Branman,in Sarasota Florida
elcab1@juno.com
http://www.elcabranman.com
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