claybair on mon 14 apr 03
Anyone who doubts what Mel said go to
www.guggenheim.org/barney/index.html
A good friend of mine went there a few weeks ago & said, "It was the
weirdest art show in the world! He has taken over the entire museum. Truly
weird."
She said it was Mathew Brady's homage to the fact that certain parts of his
anatomy didn't descend.
I abandoned that part of the "Art" world long ago and am now so happy to be
amongst true artists...... potters! In the years I have been a potter I have
only had to watch my back around one person. The opposite was true around
"Art world scam artists"!
I met some more great potters when I was at the Puyallup Spring Fair
"Artists in Action" last week.... Lonnie & Julie Tosch and Heidi Jack. I am
so grateful to be amongst people who appreciate each others work and are
honestly happy when one is successful conversely when this happen in the
"Art" world the "Arteests" go nuts.
I'm not going to spin my wheels on this issue the NEA system is self
destructing just look at their dwindling funding.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of mel jacobson
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 3:02 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: broken art(long)
i have had 5 posts today from friends.
they discuss the downfall of art, iraq, europe
and of course art education, funding for the arts.
antiquities smashed.
i have a take....it has been sitting on me like
a lump.
`when do we as crafts people take a stand`.
what is the nea buying?
in my opinion, a great deal of junk.
what is being funded?
a great deal of junk.
rotten performance art. people applying for
grants with junk ideas. bad craftsmanship and
bad ideas.
and, we wonder why the society rejects it.
look at tv, films, smut, bad ideas.
and the defense is always....`i have the freedom
to show my body....push my body at the screen.
it is good for teenagers to see this`. my art is
smut, but the government should pay me to do it.
entitlement. it is the wave. and soon the funding
will be gone. for good. when do we say.
`enough`. ??? grow up, become adults...take
responsibility. how do we keep defending the
emporer's naked body?
if we continue to defend smut, junk, bad ideas as
entitlement, well watch it all disappear.
most of us as potters take care of ourselves.
that has been our way for generations. many artists
are jealous of us...we sell. we do not feel privileged
and entitled. we expect that our customers are served.
it is adult behavior.
this weekend kids at the u of minesota rioted after
the hockey team won the national championship.
burned cars, smashed shop windows.
one student was quoted `it is the universities fault,
they did not provide a place for us to let off steam.`
it was the universities fault!!!...that the students
rioted.!!!...give me a break. entitlement. rules the mind.
few take a bit of responsibility to be an adult.
it makes me sick.
should a country that sets a record for television
audience to watch a women select a millionaire
for a husband fund it's art? it think not.
we fight for the right to be artists, we respect what
we do as potters, we work our tails to the bone.
and we watch the world of crap take over.
it is time to wake up...fight back.
write your galley and museum people...ask them
where they are going? what do they have in mind
for our future?
where does quality craftsmanship fit in the scheme of
things.
i know that many will reject this as being anti-art...anti-creative.
but, i have been watching and waiting...and nothing much changes.
if the society at large does not care a damn about
art, well then it is time to educate and fight back.
the job belongs to us, the potters, the clay people.
we will never be accepted in the big shows, the big
museums, the big venues. we are humble dirt folks.
we do not belong.
well, according the the big A folks.
well, so be it.
watch it die then.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.TICK-ATTACK.COM
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
mel jacobson on mon 14 apr 03
i have had 5 posts today from friends.
they discuss the downfall of art, iraq, europe
and of course art education, funding for the arts.
antiquities smashed.
i have a take....it has been sitting on me like
a lump.
`when do we as crafts people take a stand`.
what is the nea buying?
in my opinion, a great deal of junk.
what is being funded?
a great deal of junk.
rotten performance art. people applying for
grants with junk ideas. bad craftsmanship and
bad ideas.
and, we wonder why the society rejects it.
look at tv, films, smut, bad ideas.
and the defense is always....`i have the freedom
to show my body....push my body at the screen.
it is good for teenagers to see this`. my art is
smut, but the government should pay me to do it.
entitlement. it is the wave. and soon the funding
will be gone. for good. when do we say.
`enough`. ??? grow up, become adults...take
responsibility. how do we keep defending the
emporer's naked body?
if we continue to defend smut, junk, bad ideas as
entitlement, well watch it all disappear.
most of us as potters take care of ourselves.
that has been our way for generations. many artists
are jealous of us...we sell. we do not feel privileged
and entitled. we expect that our customers are served.
it is adult behavior.
this weekend kids at the u of minesota rioted after
the hockey team won the national championship.
burned cars, smashed shop windows.
one student was quoted `it is the universities fault,
they did not provide a place for us to let off steam.`
it was the universities fault!!!...that the students
rioted.!!!...give me a break. entitlement. rules the mind.
few take a bit of responsibility to be an adult.
it makes me sick.
should a country that sets a record for television
audience to watch a women select a millionaire
for a husband fund it's art? it think not.
we fight for the right to be artists, we respect what
we do as potters, we work our tails to the bone.
and we watch the world of crap take over.
it is time to wake up...fight back.
write your galley and museum people...ask them
where they are going? what do they have in mind
for our future?
where does quality craftsmanship fit in the scheme of
things.
i know that many will reject this as being anti-art...anti-creative.
but, i have been watching and waiting...and nothing much changes.
if the society at large does not care a damn about
art, well then it is time to educate and fight back.
the job belongs to us, the potters, the clay people.
we will never be accepted in the big shows, the big
museums, the big venues. we are humble dirt folks.
we do not belong.
well, according the the big A folks.
well, so be it.
watch it die then.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.TICK-ATTACK.COM
mrkline on mon 14 apr 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 5:02 PM
Subject: broken art(long)
> i have had 5 posts today from friends.
> they discuss the downfall of art, iraq, europe
> and of course art education, funding for the arts.
> antiquities smashed.
>
>
> i have a take....it has been sitting on me like
> a lump.
>
> `when do we as crafts people take a stand`.
>
> what is the nea buying?
> in my opinion, a great deal of junk.
> what is being funded?
> a great deal of junk.
> rotten performance art. people applying for
> grants with junk ideas. bad craftsmanship and
> bad ideas.
> and, we wonder why the society rejects it.
> look at tv, films, smut, bad ideas.
> and the defense is always....`i have the freedom
> to show my body....push my body at the screen.
> it is good for teenagers to see this`. my art is
> smut, but the government should pay me to do it.
> entitlement. it is the wave. and soon the funding
> will be gone. for good. when do we say.
> `enough`. ??? grow up, become adults...take
> responsibility. how do we keep defending the
> emporer's naked body?
>
> if we continue to defend smut, junk, bad ideas as
> entitlement, well watch it all disappear.
>
> most of us as potters take care of ourselves.
> that has been our way for generations. many artists
> are jealous of us...we sell. we do not feel privileged
> and entitled. we expect that our customers are served.
> it is adult behavior.
>
> this weekend kids at the u of minesota rioted after
> the hockey team won the national championship.
> burned cars, smashed shop windows.
> one student was quoted `it is the universities fault,
> they did not provide a place for us to let off steam.`
> it was the universities fault!!!...that the students
> rioted.!!!...give me a break. entitlement. rules the mind.
> few take a bit of responsibility to be an adult.
> it makes me sick.
>
> should a country that sets a record for television
> audience to watch a women select a millionaire
> for a husband fund it's art? it think not.
>
> we fight for the right to be artists, we respect what
> we do as potters, we work our tails to the bone.
> and we watch the world of crap take over.
>
> it is time to wake up...fight back.
> write your galley and museum people...ask them
> where they are going? what do they have in mind
> for our future?
> where does quality craftsmanship fit in the scheme of
> things.
>
> i know that many will reject this as being anti-art...anti-creative.
> but, i have been watching and waiting...and nothing much changes.
> if the society at large does not care a damn about
> art, well then it is time to educate and fight back.
> the job belongs to us, the potters, the clay people.
> we will never be accepted in the big shows, the big
> museums, the big venues. we are humble dirt folks.
> we do not belong.
> well, according the the big A folks.
> well, so be it.
> watch it die then.
>
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
> or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> new/ http://www.TICK-ATTACK.COM
>
Mel,
I haven't contributed to the list for a long time, but after reading your
post, I have to protest. I agree with some of your observations, BUT, you
are myopic: all this emphasis on hype and attention-getting has to take a
back seat to what happened in Baghdad in the last few days: the looting of
the museum and the burning of the library. It reminds me of Caesar's
destruction of the great library of Alexandria. And we could have stopped
this. What has happened is a tragedy; what the NEA might be doing is
comedy. Surely you know the difference.
Marjory
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Tony Ferguson on mon 14 apr 03
Mel,
WE are to blame.
Kids only want to become what they see
Only a few get the bright ideas of being original--the ones we don't keep
down.
The rest want to become what they see as an example around them,
But usually what the "young & beautiful" and "rich" people appear to be,
Is measure of standard of what they think they should be.
Funny how the rich dressed poor and called it grunge.
And now young and old alike want to be like the other.
Cutting away their bodies, how truly sad.
And many will do whatever is necessary
To look the look, gang bang wanna be to ken and barbie
And there are those of us who responded to the "POPular"
crowds in our defiance of their plasticity or their having what we wanted.
I think we are the artists, rebels, the truth seekers for what is tangible
and real.
When I had clay in my hands for the first time--it was something real to me
among all the stories, unwalked talks, papers and poems.
Its takes something of real shock value or an enigma shrouded in mystery
to capture a desensitized culture.
We are that now.
We watch reality TV because what is real
is not so much real anymore and we are vain--
We like to think we are watching ourselves.
We like to see the muscles we had (or wish we had) in our youth
bang against each other in the viralness of the arena--
or the babe and stud as consummate their false love.
I surfed the internet for porn out of curiosity
Not hard because it comes to my mailbox everyday even with
the spam guards.
I am one for experimentation in a healthy and creative way.
Yet its sacredness is in its privateness.
There is NOTHING sacred anymore.
Except what you keep to yourself and share with loved ones.
People that really mean something to you.
Never imagined the unhealthy things that are going on
And I'm pretty imaginative
And this is becoming NORMAL.
You think things are dysfunctional now.
Wait.
I love the parent with a glass of vodka in their hand
and a cigarette or duby hanging out of their mouth
who says to their child, "don't drink or smoke."
This is the problem--"adult" behavior.
And they wonder why there is no respect anymore.
Why pseudo familia is created
and that doesn't even seem real anymore.
Perhaps something has got to go down before it goes up.
What appeared to be real, isn't even that real anymore.
Our world is full of hypocrites.
And most of us are afraid of doing anything about it
Because it means changing ourselves.
By God I might have to take a serious look in the mirror
That would be too much work.
Its work people don't want to do.
Because it takes effort to refine and better yourself.
Easier to hold the remote
and click on someone who appears to be "already there."
Why change the illusion, it works.
So we play the drum with the rest of band
Some play harder to stand out and get noticed
Others sing chorus so we aren't heard as much as the others
To blend in, its easier that way.
Just eat another cookie, you'll feel better in the morning.
And who suffers the most?
We do and our children and theirs and so on and so on.
Perhaps changing the world really starts with changing yourself.
Tony Ferguson
----- Original Message -----
From: "mel jacobson"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 5:02 PM
Subject: broken art(long)
> i have had 5 posts today from friends.
> they discuss the downfall of art, iraq, europe
> and of course art education, funding for the arts.
> antiquities smashed.
>
>
> i have a take....it has been sitting on me like
> a lump.
>
> `when do we as crafts people take a stand`.
>
> what is the nea buying?
> in my opinion, a great deal of junk.
> what is being funded?
> a great deal of junk.
> rotten performance art. people applying for
> grants with junk ideas. bad craftsmanship and
> bad ideas.
> and, we wonder why the society rejects it.
> look at tv, films, smut, bad ideas.
> and the defense is always....`i have the freedom
> to show my body....push my body at the screen.
> it is good for teenagers to see this`. my art is
> smut, but the government should pay me to do it.
> entitlement. it is the wave. and soon the funding
> will be gone. for good. when do we say.
> `enough`. ??? grow up, become adults...take
> responsibility. how do we keep defending the
> emporer's naked body?
>
> if we continue to defend smut, junk, bad ideas as
> entitlement, well watch it all disappear.
>
> most of us as potters take care of ourselves.
> that has been our way for generations. many artists
> are jealous of us...we sell. we do not feel privileged
> and entitled. we expect that our customers are served.
> it is adult behavior.
>
> this weekend kids at the u of minesota rioted after
> the hockey team won the national championship.
> burned cars, smashed shop windows.
> one student was quoted `it is the universities fault,
> they did not provide a place for us to let off steam.`
> it was the universities fault!!!...that the students
> rioted.!!!...give me a break. entitlement. rules the mind.
> few take a bit of responsibility to be an adult.
> it makes me sick.
>
> should a country that sets a record for television
> audience to watch a women select a millionaire
> for a husband fund it's art? it think not.
>
> we fight for the right to be artists, we respect what
> we do as potters, we work our tails to the bone.
> and we watch the world of crap take over.
>
> it is time to wake up...fight back.
> write your galley and museum people...ask them
> where they are going? what do they have in mind
> for our future?
> where does quality craftsmanship fit in the scheme of
> things.
>
> i know that many will reject this as being anti-art...anti-creative.
> but, i have been watching and waiting...and nothing much changes.
> if the society at large does not care a damn about
> art, well then it is time to educate and fight back.
> the job belongs to us, the potters, the clay people.
> we will never be accepted in the big shows, the big
> museums, the big venues. we are humble dirt folks.
> we do not belong.
> well, according the the big A folks.
> well, so be it.
> watch it die then.
>
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
> or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> new/ http://www.TICK-ATTACK.COM
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Jim Murphy on mon 14 apr 03
Hey Mel,
Thanks for venting.
I'll be very brief. I'll pare it down to just a couple of things - (1)
Marketing/ Visual Media Coverage of Shock-art and (2) "Blind" acceptance.
(1) Marketing/Visual Media Coverage - I suspect each generation "sees" its
own share of lousy art and/or shock-art. The longer each of us lives, the
more we'll see - if we choose to see it.
Marketing and Visual Media coverage of art over the past 15 to 20 years
specifically targets political and religious "beliefs" of society and it's
easy to understand why - it gets alot of people's attention. Flag-burning,
manure wiped on a statue of Mary, Homo (erotic?) photos, etc.
I can understand a 30-second watercooler chat and then it should be over,
but what type of person would want to own this type of art in their home,
give it as a gift, or teach children how wonderful it is ?
There are many people whose "job" it is to educate society on how to
properly appreciate art. I think we see where some of their focus and
priorities are.
(2) "Blind" Acceptance - Many just follow right along. The problem isn't
necessarily the "attention" pushed upon us by the Marketeers (some elements
of the NEA, certain artists, certain galleries, etc.) and Visual Media (TV,
magazines, local newspapers, etc.), but rather, the easy "acceptance" of
this crap as "art-to-be-appreciated".
The "focus" needs to get back to the "better art" and lay off the
shock-art crap.
Choose your leading artists and gallery owners wisely - by attending or not
attending their events. Anger and/or picketing can feed the frenzy. Maybe
it's better to just let management know directly that you'll be telling all
your friends and relatives not to attend future shows.
Similarly, kids are "taught to" party and riot after big athletic events.
How easy some follow right along. They're not born with this behavior.
Parents, teach your children well - before somebody else does.
Too many "followers" these days.
Jim Murphy
Richard Whittaker on mon 14 apr 03
Dear Mel,
Your thoughts and feelings (broken art) touch me.
How to "fight back"? I've also wondered. Not easy to do without becoming
just another "outraged" voice, so to speak, preaching to the choir.
On this matter, "taking a stand" reminds me of an old bumper sticker I
recall- "What if they gave a war and nobody came?"
What are the roots of the problem? I've wondered. Well, that gets pretty
murky. One can look into some of the philosophical ideas coming out of
Europe (post structurualism) which have been so influential in the big A
artworld. No universal values need apply. Deconstruction and relativism
carried to such extremes as to leave nothing "higher" to aim for. Big shift
to ideology. "It's all politics" etc. Everything boilded down to power
issues, gender politics etc. Or "let's just have fun." The Las Vegas thing,
that is, if all the old earnest stuff has been revealed as empty then
"let's just have fun postmodernly." Style. Fashion, etc.
>i have been watching and waiting...and nothing much changes.
>if the society at large does not care a damn about
>art, well then it is time to educate and fight back.
>the job belongs to us, the potters, the clay people.
>we will never be accepted in the big shows, the big
>museums, the big venues. we are humble dirt folks.
>we do not belong. well, according the the big A folks.
Yes. The reason I chose the name for my little non-profit "Society for the
ReCognition of Art" has to do with this, the need for some re-viewing,
re-thinking, re-enchantment, as Suzi Gablick would say. That-as I read
somewhere-"the abstract expressionist painters were the last artists able
to believe that theirs was a noble calling." This is just silly and clearly
not the experience of so many artists I know. They still feel there is
something deeply meaningful in the artistic pursuit-see the Clayart thread
on "the creative impulse," for instance.
Why is it so difficult today to make a compelling case for the values you
describe?
Don't know if I've posted this quote from Joseph Bueys on the list before,
but it speaks to this. It comes from an interview he gave in 1979:
"Creativity isn't the monopoly of artists, this is the crucial fact I've
come to realize, and this broader concept of creativity is my concept of
art. When I say everybody is an artist, I mean everybody can determine the
context of life in his particular sphere, whether in painting, music,
engineering, caring for the sick, the economy or whatever. All around us
the fundamentals of life are crying out to be shaped or created. But our
idea of culture is severly restricted because we've always applied it to
art. The dilemma of museums and other cultural institutions stems from the
fact that culture is such an isolated field, and that art is even more
isolated; an ivory tower in the field of culture surrounded first by the
whole complex of culture and education, and then by the media which are
also part of culture. We have a restricted idea of culture which debases
everything; and it is the bebased concept of art that has forced museums
into their present weak and isolated position. Our concept of art must be
universal and have the interdisciplinary nature of a university, and there
must be a university department with a new concept of art and science."
No answers here. Just questions, and keeping on trying. Really appreciate
so many things people say on this list.
Best,
Richard Whittaker
Elca Branman on mon 14 apr 03
We were all young once, and foolish, faddish, insecure, unsure..
We learned through experience slowly and sometimes expensively what is or
is not important.
Those of us that are ripened(translation-old) know the value of love
offered freely ,of good solid craftsmanship, of the value of truth etc
etc..
We earned that knowledge through time; the young will always believe that
because they fe
Elca Branman,in Sarasota Florida
elcab1@juno.com
http://www.elcabranman.com
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kruzewski on tue 15 apr 03
I have been pondering Mel's opinions on art and society, together with =
the thoughts of many others, all morning. =20
The degree course I'm taking includes a class on Critical Studies which =
I take with fine art and design students. It is not a class I would have =
chosen to take, there is no representation of ceramics at all, but I'm =
glad I have to. It has taught me to really look at and think about art.
An interesting point that has emerged, the impressionists, Rodan, Van =
Gough etc etc etc were vilified in their day, in the same way (pretty =
much) that the shock artists (for want of a better expression) are now. =
The difference, as far as I see it, is that then it was the art =
establishment who rubbished the new art, today the establishment =
champions what the rest of us find it difficult to accept, understand or =
stomach. We have been asked the question "will these artists become as =
revered as the Impressionists are now?" Personally I think not.=20
My latest Critical Studies assignment is to review 4 pieces of work at =
the Mostyn art gallery. I was told there would be some ceramic work that =
would interest me. Yep, well, if air dried clay, crudely modeled huge =
pears and lemons and life size supposedly draped hares, with slopped on =
emulsion paint is ceramic......... needless to say I focussed on other =
items. A set of TV screens with a guy variously smoking a whole pack of =
cigarettes at once, unraveling a woolly hat and other such, another TV =
set with a pair of feet stamping noisily up and down, a couple of huge =
banal photos, a pin board consisting of a map, photos and leaflets. On =
and on. Some of it I liked better, but all required the viewer to read =
an artist's explanation before any of it made any kind of sense. This is =
the art that the publicly funded galleries seem to be fostering.
So is it the "art" that is the nub of the question, or the theory? Are =
the institutions teaching art students to make art or to ask daft =
questions - to (supposedly) challenge our perceptions and call it art? =
(is it art?) Isn't this indicative of an education system that is so =
under resourced that practically all it can do is teach convoluted =
theory and thinking because it hasn't the materials to develop =
excellence in making skills and techniques. For instance, the ceramics =
degree course I am taking is actually a design course with the word =
"ceramics" tagged on in brackets, where the skills and techniques of =
making seems to come pretty low on the list.=20
Us potters fight back every day, it seems to me. We make the best that =
we can make, call it art, call it craft, call it what ever you like, it =
goes into the homes and the lives of the community around us and in some =
small, or large, way it enriches those lives. It is a living art that =
becomes part of everyday usage, whether it be the morning coffee mug, =
the sculpture on the sideboard, the one-off bathroom sink, the hand made =
tiles on the floor. In the end they mean more than the unmade bed, the =
cow cut in half and the installations that are meaningless to many. Our =
art is privately funded - public funding is only a recent phenomena - =
and every person that buys hand made over mass produced fights back too. =
Jacqui
North Wales (long windedly, as usual).
Jocelyn McAuley on tue 15 apr 03
I am severely censoring my post... because I am one of the group refered
to as "young people". But I have to somehow voice my disappointment...
I disagree heavily with mel, and feel disappointed that this discussion is
dividing the issues at hand so bipolarly:
young vs old
smut vs pure
etc etc
Its a shame that this list often falls into ageist attitudes which of
course only serve to alienate.
Disappointed and deleting entire threads,
Jocelyn
--
Jocelyn McAuley ><<'> jocie@worlddomination.net
Eugene, Oregon http://www.ceramicism.com
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