Dupre Mr Marcy M on tue 15 apr 03
Dear All,
(Mel touched a real nerve here. This is, in reflection quite a rant on my
part. If you wish, delete now.)
Mayor Mel is dead on target! What passes for "art" in this country, and
most of the rest of the world, is junk. Many years ago, in college, I
submitted a paper expressing my feelings on the subject, positing that many
American artists were simply scamming the public to see what they could get
away with. And, as with unspanked children, continued to stretch the limits
of propriety and credulity until we are now faced with a facet of our
society that is flawed and broken.
The National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) should never have been allowed to
take the first breath. The government has absolutely NO business
subsidizing or dabbling in the arts. If you cannot support yourself by
working at one job to pay the bills, and building your skills in your
"off-time," find something else to do. (This one is going to REALLY
irritate a lot of folks.) If I am stepping on your toes, so be it.
There are far too many undeserving people who are perpetual leeches on the
Public Teat. I, for one of many, do not condone calling a statuette of
Virgin Mary in a jar of urine, "art." If your art isn't good enough to
sell, or attractive enough to gain the support of a patron, then perhaps
either your skills or your "statement" aren't sufficient to the cause.
As a nation, we have all become victims--it is always someone else's fault.
We seek to fix the blame, rather than fixing the cause of the problem. The
riot of the Minnesota students could easily have been prevented. The school
simply dismisses those who vandalize property that is not theirs. Common
respect. To say that it is the school's fault for not providing a place for
the student to let off steam is one of the more ridiculous statements I have
ever heard.
To bring that statement to a more immediate arena, suppose the servicemen
who are fighting in Iraq started destroying the cities they entered. Just
random, wanton, total destruction. Killing everything, running tanks
through buildings, blowing up cars and trucks, setting fire to mosques,
bulldozing the rubble flat. "Just youthful exuberance, letting off a little
bit of steam. After all, they've been living in a combat zone for a number
of weeks, being shot at, having women blow themselves and their children up
in suicide bombings. They're just tense. It's the nation's fault for not
providing them a place to get rid of all that anxiety."
Would we, as responsible citizens tolerate that tripe from the mouths of our
military leaders? Not for one instant. We would be horrified and outraged.
Would we expect any punishments to be exacted on the perpetuators? You bet
your bippy we would.
Then why tolerate irresponsible behavior from future leaders of our nation?
Why accept less than optimal work from people who call themselves "artists?"
Why do we pay to support social parasites? Yes, sir. Your taxes go to pay
for these people to create and thrust into your face the diseased dribblings
of their infertile little brains. And, an outcome-based society says,
"That's nice, dear. Go make some more."
We have a problem. A near-complete lack of consequence for a lack of
responsibility. When I say "we," I mean everyone. Yes, ma'am, you, too.
And you, sir, there in the back. And YOU, too young man. As long as the
infection touches us all, it is OUR problem.
What to do about it? Don't support "bad art." Do not condone crap. Put
the pressure on the galleries, the shows, the fairs. Do accept good stuff.
Encourage and educate. Get the NEA out of the business of art. It is a
GOVERNMENT organization. How much government do you really want in your
life, anyway?
Work to take back the art you want to see in your home. If you would want
to have it in your home, under any circumstances, work to make it not
acceptable. The First Amendment to the Constitution does not allow you the
freedom to falsely cry "FIRE" in a crowded theater. You may express
yourself in a reasonable manner, with responsibility for that expression.
Responsibility. That is the key.
Tig Dupre
in Springfield, VA
claybair on tue 15 apr 03
Tig,
Conversely as far as I am the gov't should not be nursing any
industries it has supported for years! Shall we make a list???
Let's look at all the other industries getting handouts!
To name a few:
Milk
Beef
Airlines
Energy
Oil
As far as I am concerned they should all get off welfare!
So don't single out the Arts....... get them all!
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of Dupre Mr
Marcy M
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:21 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Broken Art (Long rant!)
Dear All,
(Mel touched a real nerve here. This is, in reflection quite a rant on my
part. If you wish, delete now.)
Mayor Mel is dead on target! What passes for "art" in this country, and
most of the rest of the world, is junk. Many years ago, in college, I
submitted a paper expressing my feelings on the subject, positing that many
American artists were simply scamming the public to see what they could get
away with. And, as with unspanked children, continued to stretch the limits
of propriety and credulity until we are now faced with a facet of our
society that is flawed and broken.
The National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) should never have been allowed to
take the first breath. The government has absolutely NO business
subsidizing or dabbling in the arts. If you cannot support yourself by
working at one job to pay the bills, and building your skills in your
"off-time," find something else to do. (This one is going to REALLY
irritate a lot of folks.) If I am stepping on your toes, so be it.
There are far too many undeserving people who are perpetual leeches on the
Public Teat. I, for one of many, do not condone calling a statuette of
Virgin Mary in a jar of urine, "art." If your art isn't good enough to
sell, or attractive enough to gain the support of a patron, then perhaps
either your skills or your "statement" aren't sufficient to the cause.
As a nation, we have all become victims--it is always someone else's fault.
We seek to fix the blame, rather than fixing the cause of the problem. The
riot of the Minnesota students could easily have been prevented. The school
simply dismisses those who vandalize property that is not theirs. Common
respect. To say that it is the school's fault for not providing a place for
the student to let off steam is one of the more ridiculous statements I have
ever heard.
To bring that statement to a more immediate arena, suppose the servicemen
who are fighting in Iraq started destroying the cities they entered. Just
random, wanton, total destruction. Killing everything, running tanks
through buildings, blowing up cars and trucks, setting fire to mosques,
bulldozing the rubble flat. "Just youthful exuberance, letting off a little
bit of steam. After all, they've been living in a combat zone for a number
of weeks, being shot at, having women blow themselves and their children up
in suicide bombings. They're just tense. It's the nation's fault for not
providing them a place to get rid of all that anxiety."
Would we, as responsible citizens tolerate that tripe from the mouths of our
military leaders? Not for one instant. We would be horrified and outraged.
Would we expect any punishments to be exacted on the perpetuators? You bet
your bippy we would.
Then why tolerate irresponsible behavior from future leaders of our nation?
Why accept less than optimal work from people who call themselves "artists?"
Why do we pay to support social parasites? Yes, sir. Your taxes go to pay
for these people to create and thrust into your face the diseased dribblings
of their infertile little brains. And, an outcome-based society says,
"That's nice, dear. Go make some more."
We have a problem. A near-complete lack of consequence for a lack of
responsibility. When I say "we," I mean everyone. Yes, ma'am, you, too.
And you, sir, there in the back. And YOU, too young man. As long as the
infection touches us all, it is OUR problem.
What to do about it? Don't support "bad art." Do not condone crap. Put
the pressure on the galleries, the shows, the fairs. Do accept good stuff.
Encourage and educate. Get the NEA out of the business of art. It is a
GOVERNMENT organization. How much government do you really want in your
life, anyway?
Work to take back the art you want to see in your home. If you would want
to have it in your home, under any circumstances, work to make it not
acceptable. The First Amendment to the Constitution does not allow you the
freedom to falsely cry "FIRE" in a crowded theater. You may express
yourself in a reasonable manner, with responsibility for that expression.
Responsibility. That is the key.
Tig Dupre
in Springfield, VA
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Mary Umbaugh on tue 15 apr 03
Wow! I'm new to Clayart, but condone your sentiment.
Mary U.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dupre Mr Marcy M"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 7:20 AM
Subject: Broken Art (Long rant!)
> Dear All,
>
> (Mel touched a real nerve here. This is, in reflection quite a rant on my
> part. If you wish, delete now.)
>
> Mayor Mel is dead on target! What passes for "art" in this country, and
> most of the rest of the world, is junk. Many years ago, in college, I
> submitted a paper expressing my feelings on the subject, positing that
many
> American artists were simply scamming the public to see what they could
get
> away with. And, as with unspanked children, continued to stretch the
limits
> of propriety and credulity until we are now faced with a facet of our
> society that is flawed and broken.
>
> The National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) should never have been allowed
to
> take the first breath. The government has absolutely NO business
> subsidizing or dabbling in the arts. If you cannot support yourself by
> working at one job to pay the bills, and building your skills in your
> "off-time," find something else to do. (This one is going to REALLY
> irritate a lot of folks.) If I am stepping on your toes, so be it.
>
> There are far too many undeserving people who are perpetual leeches on the
> Public Teat. I, for one of many, do not condone calling a statuette of
> Virgin Mary in a jar of urine, "art." If your art isn't good enough to
> sell, or attractive enough to gain the support of a patron, then perhaps
> either your skills or your "statement" aren't sufficient to the cause.
>
> As a nation, we have all become victims--it is always someone else's
fault.
> We seek to fix the blame, rather than fixing the cause of the problem.
The
> riot of the Minnesota students could easily have been prevented. The
school
> simply dismisses those who vandalize property that is not theirs. Common
> respect. To say that it is the school's fault for not providing a place
for
> the student to let off steam is one of the more ridiculous statements I
have
> ever heard.
>
> To bring that statement to a more immediate arena, suppose the servicemen
> who are fighting in Iraq started destroying the cities they entered. Just
> random, wanton, total destruction. Killing everything, running tanks
> through buildings, blowing up cars and trucks, setting fire to mosques,
> bulldozing the rubble flat. "Just youthful exuberance, letting off a
little
> bit of steam. After all, they've been living in a combat zone for a
number
> of weeks, being shot at, having women blow themselves and their children
up
> in suicide bombings. They're just tense. It's the nation's fault for not
> providing them a place to get rid of all that anxiety."
>
> Would we, as responsible citizens tolerate that tripe from the mouths of
our
> military leaders? Not for one instant. We would be horrified and
outraged.
>
> Would we expect any punishments to be exacted on the perpetuators? You
bet
> your bippy we would.
>
> Then why tolerate irresponsible behavior from future leaders of our
nation?
> Why accept less than optimal work from people who call themselves
"artists?"
> Why do we pay to support social parasites? Yes, sir. Your taxes go to
pay
> for these people to create and thrust into your face the diseased
dribblings
> of their infertile little brains. And, an outcome-based society says,
> "That's nice, dear. Go make some more."
>
> We have a problem. A near-complete lack of consequence for a lack of
> responsibility. When I say "we," I mean everyone. Yes, ma'am, you, too.
> And you, sir, there in the back. And YOU, too young man. As long as the
> infection touches us all, it is OUR problem.
>
> What to do about it? Don't support "bad art." Do not condone crap. Put
> the pressure on the galleries, the shows, the fairs. Do accept good
stuff.
> Encourage and educate. Get the NEA out of the business of art. It is a
> GOVERNMENT organization. How much government do you really want in your
> life, anyway?
>
> Work to take back the art you want to see in your home. If you would want
> to have it in your home, under any circumstances, work to make it not
> acceptable. The First Amendment to the Constitution does not allow you
the
> freedom to falsely cry "FIRE" in a crowded theater. You may express
> yourself in a reasonable manner, with responsibility for that expression.
>
> Responsibility. That is the key.
>
>
>
> Tig Dupre
> in Springfield, VA
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
BRIAN GUFFEY on tue 15 apr 03
I can not believe you actually think like that. that entire post was an =
oppinionated centered statement based on the rare cases and generalizatio=
ns given. GRANTED ... most modern art is s**t! ... but that's sort of lik=
e saying the pop art, impressionism, post impressionism, and every other =
single form of art before it was crap! the reason why it IS CONSIDERED A=
RT, is because the ARTIST SAYS SO! Whether it is good or bad is for the =
public to decide. if its bad ... it will disappear. at one point and ti=
me Voulkos was considered a horrible ceramicist. case and point, ART IS =
SUBJECTIVE!!! is the socio-economic structure ... art is crap, its about=
as profitable as a roll of toilet paper. its only used as a status symb=
ol for the wealthy who can afford it. if you consider yourself an "artis=
t" then think of this, "why do you consider yourself an artist and not a =
skilled craftsman?" now remember i said artist, not potter, potter is a =
craftsman term in the truest sense. now if after that you still consider=
yourself an artist, whats to stop me from making the generalization abou=
t pottery and say anyone who says their pottery is art, is crap. Every d=
ay we all face generalizations, from your looks, to your mannerisms, to y=
our attitude, to the work you do, etc, etc, etc .... can you really be a=
ble to say something along the lines of its crap because its shock art? =20
i would just be happy if people stop using the piss contained mary as an =
example. it is just the fringe of the art world and is only widely known =
about because of its controversial nature. i could get the same reaction=
if i walk into a gallery, lay the american flag down onto the area where=
the placemat should be and call it installation art. the NEA was brough=
t about to encourage the ideas and styles of artists to develope! The sa=
me thing as those few bad instances could happen in the private gallery s=
etting as well!! its sort of like saying that after WWII and Vietnam tha=
t we shouldn't have given soldiers the GI Bill to goto college and become=
artists. it happened, it worked, and helped AMERICAN ART PROGRESS! alo=
t of them BECAME CERAMICISTS!
How about this, next time you decide to just state that something is crap=
and say we should dismiss the current art style, look at the past art st=
yles that developed ... same reaction. or better yet, DEVELOPE an artist=
ic style that is original. That is the same thing that modern art is str=
iving for! something original. =20
-end current rant-
Brian Guffey
http://deadsprite.virtue.nu/
----- Original Message -----
From: Dupre Mr Marcy M
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 7:56 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Broken Art (Long rant!)
Dear All,
(Mel touched a real nerve here. This is, in reflection quite a rant on m=
y
part. If you wish, delete now.)
Mayor Mel is dead on target! What passes for "art" in this country, and
most of the rest of the world
, is junk. Many years ago, in college, I
submitted a paper expressing my feelings on the subject, positing that ma=
ny
American artists were simply scamming the public to see what they could g=
et
away with. And, as with unspanked children, continued to stretch the lim=
its
of propriety and credulity until we are now faced with a facet of our
society that is flawed and broken.
The National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) should never have been allowed =
to
take the first breath. The government has absolutely NO business
subsidizing or dabbling in the arts. If you cannot support yourself by
working at one job to pay the bills, and building your skills in your
"off-time," find something else to do. (This one is going to REALLY
irritate a lot of folks.) If I am stepping on your toes, so be it.
There are far too many undeserving people who are perpetual leeches on th=
e
Public Teat. I, for one of many, do not condone calling a statuette of
Virgin Mary in a jar of urine, "art." If your art isn't good enough to
sell, or attractive enough to gain the support of a patron, then perhaps
either your skills or your "statement" aren't sufficient to the cause.
As a nation, we have all become victims--it is always someone else's faul=
t.
We seek to fix the blame, rather than fixing the cause of the problem. T=
he
riot of the Minnesota students could easily have been prevented. The sch=
ool
simply dismisses those who vandalize property that is not theirs. Common
respect. To say that it is the school's fault for not providing a place =
for
the student to let off steam is one of the more ridiculous statements I h=
ave
ever heard.
To bring that statement to a more immediate arena, suppose the servicemen
who are fighting in Iraq started destroying the cities they entered. Jus=
t
random, wanton, total destruction. Killing everything, running tanks
through buildings, blowing up cars and trucks, setting fire to mosques,
bulldozing the rubble flat. "Just youthful exuberance, letting off a lit=
tle
bit of steam. After all, they've been living in a combat zone for a numb=
er
of weeks, being shot at, having women blow themselves and their children =
up
in suicide bombings. They're just tense. It's the nation's fault for no=
t
providing them a place to get rid of all that anxiety."
Would we, as responsible citizens tolerate that tripe from the mouths of =
our
military leaders? Not for one instant. We would be horrified and outrag=
ed.
Would we expect any punishments to be exacted on the perpetuators? You b=
et
your bippy we would.
Then why tolerate irresponsible behavior from future leaders of our natio=
n?
Why accept less than optimal work from people who call themselves "artist=
s?"
Why do we pay to support social parasites? Yes, sir. Your taxes go to p=
ay
for these people to create and thrust into your face the diseased dribbli=
ngs
of their infertile little brains. And, an outcome-based society says,
"That's nice, dear. Go make some more."
We have a problem. A near-complete lack of consequence for a lack of
responsibility. When I say "we," I mean everyone. Yes, ma'am, you, too.
And you, sir, there in the back. And YOU, too young man. As long as the
infection touches us all, it is OUR problem.
What to do about it? Don't support "bad art." Do not condone crap. Put
the pressure on the galleries, the shows, the fairs. Do accept good stuf=
f.
Encourage and educate. Get the NEA out of the business of art. It is a
GOVERNMENT organization. How much government do you really want in your
life, anyway?
Work to take back the art you want to see in your home. If you would wan=
t
to have it in your home, under any circumstances, work to make it not
acceptable. The First Amendment to the Constitution does not allow you t=
he
freedom to falsely cry "FIRE" in a crowded theater. You may express
yourself in a reasonable manner, with responsibility for that expression.
Responsibility. That is the key.
Tig Dupre
in Springfield, VA
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclin=
k.com.
Bobbruch1@AOL.COM on wed 16 apr 03
>>>>Brian writes<<<contained mary as an example. it is just the fringe of the art world and is
only widely known about because of its controversial nature.
The issue is the GOVERNMENT FUNDING of an item that is deliberately offensive
to some people's religious beliefs ........ one reason to be concerned is
that the propaganda ministries of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia also funded
"art" that bashed certain groups for their race, religion and beliefs, etc.
Our system allows a private gallery to display any work they want to, but
many people were disturbed that the government's $$$$ was doing this. Some
people will in turn argue that government $$$$ does things that they don't
like. But as artists, we should be concerned that government $$$$ for the
arts could be withdrawn because of the actions of a few curators who refuse
to take responsibility for their actions. If Mr. Soriano (? SP) or anyone
else wants to put something in a jar of urine and photograph it, that is his
right. If a gallery wants to have an exhibit of that work, that is their
right, and most of us would probably want to defend their RIGHT to do so, if
not their sense of judgment. If a private gallery can find customers for and
make a living from selling urinated religious objects, they have a right to
take that path. But I question the JUDGMENT of the NEA and the arts
organization that gave the money that allowed this to occur.
What really gave fuel to the fire was not Mr. Soriano's work (and some others
of a similar vein), but the reactions of the arts organization and the NEA.
Instead of realizing their mistake and addressing it, they dug in and
defended their activities.
<<<<<american flag down onto the area where the placemat should be and call it
installation art. the NEA was brought about to encourage the ideas and
styles of artists to develope!
Brian, I differ with you here, because if YOU walk into a gallery and do
something, that is between you and the gallery owner. That is not an NEA or
local arts organization issue. They would only become involved if they
decided to fund your activity with government $$$$.
Bob Bruch
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