Vince Pitelka on fri 18 apr 03
> I really think this is all a set up for fodder for Kelli's next play at
> NCECA.
Ooooh . . . . . . . I hope so . . . . . .
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Longtin, Jeff on fri 18 apr 03
Can anyone tell me why we feel this overriding need to "win" this arguement.
We disagree. Get over it. Post your opinion and leave it at that. What's
with this bickering back and forth bullshit. I have my opinion, you have
yours. Best as I can tell we're all fairly reasonable folks, lets agree to
disagree and put an end to it already.
Mel stirred something up and then we rip him apart, what is that about? I
disagree with him on some things, I agree with him on others, I'm just
thankful he has a strong stomach and keeps this message board open.
Jeff Longtin
Vince Pitelka on fri 18 apr 03
> Can anyone tell me why we feel this overriding need to "win" this
arguement.
> We disagree. Get over it. Post your opinion and leave it at that. What's
> with this bickering back and forth bullshit. I have my opinion, you have
> yours. Best as I can tell we're all fairly reasonable folks, lets agree to
> disagree and put an end to it already.
> Mel stirred something up and then we rip him apart, what is that about? I
> disagree with him on some things, I agree with him on others, I'm just
> thankful he has a strong stomach and keeps this message board open.
Well gee Jeff, does this make you feel good, climbing up on your high horse?
Have you really missed the entire point of this discussion list. What's
that word? DISCUSSION? What's with your paranoia? Who is it that is
trying to WIN anything here? Come on, get with it. Discuss, or else
delete. Don't dictate. It doesn't become you.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Alyss Dorese on fri 18 apr 03
I really think this is all a set up for fodder for Kelli's next play at
NCECA.
lol
Alyss
dorese@ix.netcom.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Longtin, Jeff"
To:
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: Broken Art/Broken List
> Can anyone tell me why we feel this overriding need to "win" this
arguement.
> We disagree. Get over it. Post your opinion and leave it at that. What's
> with this bickering back and forth bullshit. I have my opinion, you have
> yours. Best as I can tell we're all fairly reasonable folks, lets agree to
> disagree and put an end to it already.
> Mel stirred something up and then we rip him apart, what is that about? I
> disagree with him on some things, I agree with him on others, I'm just
> thankful he has a strong stomach and keeps this message board open.
>
> Jeff Longtin
>
>
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melpots@pclink.com.
Janet Kaiser on sat 19 apr 03
In answer to your question, Jeff, I would say it is because many or even
most people participating on Clayart are passionate about their work, as
well as other subjects such as politics, religion and
The Arts. That is good. That is healthy. And it sure beats the tedium of
listening to the wishy-washy That's Nice Dear brigade! Indeed, any artist
worth their salt has to be a passionate human being and not some boring
Yes-Man or woman. That is -- in my experience -- one of the prerequisites
and is arguably one of the human attributes which make the "born artist" --
a being which so many deny even exists. Strange thought: I would consider
an artist as being passionate, but would think a politician or faith of choice> with equally strong views and feelings, a fanatic.
Probably why when Prime Minister Blair prefaces some statements with "I
believe passionately..." I think he is trying to con me and anyone else
listening.
But further to your query, there is the underlying premiss, that it is
always argument and ranting when someone is vehement in their view and use
the necessary language trying to express themselves adequately. I have
noticed this phenomena (of thinking people are arguing, when they are
merely discussing or debating) often. And when there is a definite opinion
expressed, there is always someone, somewhere who will feel attacked and
therefore the need to respond in kind. Disturb or poke a worm and it will
jump and squirm in exactly the same way!
It may be that many live and work in isolation and are not used to
expressing themselves or listening to others. (By "listening" I refer to
really taking on board what they are saying, not just what one thinks the
other might be saying). It may be that their cultural background did/does
not include honest, robust table-banging and heated debate. They may never
have taken part in formal debating at school or elsewhere. It may be that
they shrink back from what they perceive as rudeness, insult, colourful,
emotive and slanderous language, whereas someone else will revel in it all
and have the time of their lives. It can be exhilarating, pushing the
intellect into working overtime assimilating all the new ideas, different
views and opinions or it can clam people up and polarise opinions.
And BTW I do not think that this has much to do with age... It is all down
to both nature and nurture. The way we relate to others -- 99.9% of whom
have never met in this virtual community -- depends very much on the way we
perceive them. Some we love to "listen" to no matter how inane they are,
yet others we either add to our filter list or hit the delete button as
soon as their name pops up, even if wisdom of Job shines out of their
virtual backsides... How come, if we have never met?
Even more so the forming of groups and camps within this virtual community.
Or the perception that individuals are in one camp or the other... Take,
for example, the misguided belief that Vince and I rarely agree. That is so
far from the truth that we are both bewildered by the very idea. No, we do
not agree on everything all the time >yawn, boring< and I admit to being a
bit of a hell raiser on certain subjects and do enjoy putting the opposite
viewpoint out of pure devilry (after all, I need to uphold my reputation
for having horns and a tail), however, just because people voice their
opinions in a strong and robust manner, does not meant that they are
"fighting". Discussion is not to be equated with argument.
OK so some of us descend to the name-calling and na-na-na-na-naaaa-naaaa of
the playground or the Houses of Parliament from time to time, but this is
not out of malice, just the frustration of what we are trying to say not
being fully understood, appreciated or accepted as being a valid point
and/or -- the worst scenario -- willfully misinterpreted, misunderstood or
misquoted. The selective quotes which twist the meaning of the originator
get my goat every time! Yet sometimes what has been said by others sends
thoughts off on a tangent or even a parallel course... Again, depending on
the listener, an ensuing post will then be construed as anything from snide
comment on the one hand to valid commentary on the other.
It is all very well to say we are intelligent adults, but we all have our
real lives with all their ups and downs, daily trails and tribulations, the
health problems and economic issues which can greatly influence our on-line
lives and reactions. Get me on a bad hair day and I can sound like a
vicious Old Bitty, whereas I am neither particularly old nor aggressive. I
rarely raise my voice and my knees knock at any sort of confrontation in
the real world. Yet, stress levels must increase the adrenalin pumping
through our veins, so it almost comforting to know that fight-or-flight
mechanism obviously works in cyberspace too!
What I find much more disturbing than even the worst verbal fisticuffs, is
the harbouring of grudges. Now that IS totally silly and childish. Harking
back to past disagreements and harping on about what was said months or
even years ago is far worse IMHO.
Bet you are sorry you asked...? Have you forgotten what exactly the point
was...? Don't worry, so have I!
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser - long-winded as usual but now off my soap box and into bed.
The busiest weekend of the whole year is upon us, so I should try to get
more than 3-4 hours sleep... Happy Easter to those who celebrate.
**********************************************************************
TRUTH is too precious to tell every fool who asks for it...
****** This post was sent to you today by Janet Kaiser *******
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
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AKitchens on sun 20 apr 03
Finally someone with a sense of humor!
Brilliant idea Alyss! Kelly did you read this? Frankly this is beginning
to sound like a bar fight, so thanks guys and gals, I'll just step outside.
The sun is out, Dogwoods are blooming, Tennessee is finally greening up
and I need to get away from clayart and do more planting in the garden.
Anger management.....maybe we should all step outside......
It's not that I don't have an opinion. It's just that I don't need
to convince you that mine is right :-)
Come on mel tell em it's DONE. Puleeezzz.....
Nan Kitchens
Tennessee
hitting the blah blah blah blah blah button way too often.....
What are we accomplishing here?
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:28:26 -0700
From: Alyss Dorese
Subject: Re: Broken Art/Broken List
I really think this is all a set up for fodder for Kelli's next play at
NCECA.
lol
Alyss
dorese@ix.netcom.com
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