John Rodgers on thu 1 may 03
electricity...
Beth,
Adding up typical amperage for your appliances, HW - heater(30), Dryer
(30), Electric Stove (40), total 100 amps. When you add the 60 amp
circuit for the kiln you are going to go over the max for the panel. You
have two options,
1) Add the 60 amp breaker for the kiln, turn off the breakers for the
Elec. Stove and Dryer( Best Choices) when you are operating the kiln.
Otherwise, one of the breakers will surely trip if anything else comes
one while the kiln is on. This is not the best procedure, but it works.
Not recommended however. And may raise home insurance issues. And you
may not be able to get an electrician to install it for you. Code,
licensing issues are involved.
2) Install a 200 amp service. Then you have no problems.
It would be nice have a wall mounted shut off switch within arms reach
of the kiln cable connection. A safety measure, whether hardwired to the
switch or set up for a cable plug. I prefer the wall switch with cable
receptacle myself. There are times, switch or no, that I like to see
that plug laying on the floor.
My $0.02.
John Rodgers
Birmigham, AL
Beth Martin wrote:
>I need to have an electrician come out anyway, so while I'm at it, I'd
>like to have them set me up for a large kiln in the future.
>
>Right now I have a 125-amp panel, with space left for two little
>breakers. The kiln I want would need a 60-amp breaker. We have gas heat,
>so just the water heater, dryer, and stove are the major
>electricity-suckers on this panel.
>
>I'm collecting bids from electrician's right now, but I'd like to be
>armed with information before they come out.
>
>If you have an electric kiln (or even more than one) at home, I'd like to
>know how big it is and what sort of service you have: 125-amp? 200-amp?
>125-amp with sub-panel?
>
>Thanks for your help! :)
>
>Beth Martin
>beth.martin@lovemail.com
>http://home.attbi.com/~themartinfamily
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Maurice Weitman on thu 1 may 03
electricity...
With all due respect, John, my understanding is that adding the
ratings of individual breakers does not mean much.
For example, the breakers in my 100-Amp service box add up to 310
Amps, including one 100 Amp two-pole breaker that feeds another
100-Amp sub-panel. In that sub-panel are still more breakers,
including a 60-Amp breaker for a kiln. (I have gas cooking and
heating.)
And if I were to overload my service (by using more than 100 Amps
TOTAL), individual breakers wouldn't pop; the main (100-Amp breaker
would overheat and trip.
Beth, I would check with a trusted contractor or electrician and
avoid upgrading to 200-Amp service unless it was absolutely
necessary. In fact, I would convert to gas cooking and water heating
before upgrading electrical service.
Regards,
Maurice
At 1:21 PM -0600 on 5/1/03, John Rodgers wrote:
>Beth,
>
>Adding up typical amperage for your appliances, HW - heater(30), Dryer
>(30), Electric Stove (40), total 100 amps. When you add the 60 amp
>circuit for the kiln you are going to go over the max for the panel. You
>have two options,
>
>1) Add the 60 amp breaker for the kiln, turn off the breakers for the
>Elec. Stove and Dryer( Best Choices) when you are operating the kiln.
>Otherwise, one of the breakers will surely trip if anything else comes
>one while the kiln is on. This is not the best procedure, but it works.
>Not recommended however. And may raise home insurance issues. And you
>may not be able to get an electrician to install it for you. Code,
>licensing issues are involved.
>
>2) Install a 200 amp service. Then you have no problems.
>
>It would be nice have a wall mounted shut off switch within arms reach
>of the kiln cable connection. A safety measure, whether hardwired to the
>switch or set up for a cable plug. I prefer the wall switch with cable
>receptacle myself. There are times, switch or no, that I like to see
>that plug laying on the floor.
>
>My $0.02.
>
>John Rodgers
>Birmigham, AL
>
>Beth Martin wrote:
>
>>I need to have an electrician come out anyway, so while I'm at it, I'd
>>like to have them set me up for a large kiln in the future.
>>
>>Right now I have a 125-amp panel, with space left for two little
>>breakers. The kiln I want would need a 60-amp breaker. We have gas heat,
>>so just the water heater, dryer, and stove are the major
>>electricity-suckers on this panel.
>>
>>I'm collecting bids from electrician's right now, but I'd like to be
>>armed with information before they come out.
>>
>>If you have an electric kiln (or even more than one) at home, I'd like to
>>know how big it is and what sort of service you have: 125-amp? 200-amp?
>>125-amp with sub-panel?
>>
>>Thanks for your help! :)
>>
>>Beth Martin
>>beth.martin@lovemail.com
>>http://home.attbi.com/~themartinfamily
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________________
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>>
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
John Rodgers on fri 2 may 03
electricity...
Maurice,
You are quite right. I have mis-spoken myself.
If the total current draw of all the service loops through all the
breakers in the panel exceeds the rated service on the panel the main
breaker will trip, shutting off the power.
If the current draw is manipulated by operating some but not all
circuits, total current draw can be kept below the maximum imposed by
the main panel breaker. In this circumstance, the the total amperage
count for all breakers can exceed the limit of the main breaker, as long
as the actual current draw doesn't go over the main breaker limit. In
other words, a 200 amp service can most assuredly have circuit breakers
totaling 300 amps. However, one must judiciously manipulate the use of
the circuits on those breakers so the total current draw does not
exceed 200 amps at any given time, otherwise the main 200 amp breaker
will trip. I personally don't like this sort of an arrangement, but it
works.
One big caution here. On some older homes, there is no visible service
panel main breaker. So it is difficult to know what the service is
without going to the electric company or having an electrician out to
inspect. This type of panel I would not tinker with. Get a qualified
electrician to take a look and determine what is needed. My preference
in this circumstance would be to upgrade the service with a newer
updated service panel - one that has a main breaker that controls
everything. That way, in an emergency, a single flip of the switch will
kill the power to the entire house or shop.
The insurance companies will love you.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
Maurice Weitman wrote:
> With all due respect, John, my understanding is that adding the
> ratings of individual breakers does not mean much.
>
> For example, the breakers in my 100-Amp service box add up to 310
> Amps, including one 100 Amp two-pole breaker that feeds another
> 100-Amp sub-panel. In that sub-panel are still more breakers,
> including a 60-Amp breaker for a kiln. (I have gas cooking and
> heating.)
>
> And if I were to overload my service (by using more than 100 Amps
> TOTAL), individual breakers wouldn't pop; the main (100-Amp breaker
> would overheat and trip.
>
> Beth, I would check with a trusted contractor or electrician and
> avoid upgrading to 200-Amp service unless it was absolutely
> necessary. In fact, I would convert to gas cooking and water heating
> before upgrading electrical service.
>
> Regards,
> Maurice
>
>
> At 1:21 PM -0600 on 5/1/03, John Rodgers wrote:
>
>> Beth,
>>
>> Adding up typical amperage for your appliances, HW - heater(30), Dryer
>> (30), Electric Stove (40), total 100 amps. When you add the 60 amp
>> circuit for the kiln you are going to go over the max for the panel. You
>> have two options,
>>
>> 1) Add the 60 amp breaker for the kiln, turn off the breakers for the
>> Elec. Stove and Dryer( Best Choices) when you are operating the kiln.
>> Otherwise, one of the breakers will surely trip if anything else comes
>> one while the kiln is on. This is not the best procedure, but it works.
>> Not recommended however. And may raise home insurance issues. And you
>> may not be able to get an electrician to install it for you. Code,
>> licensing issues are involved.
>>
>> 2) Install a 200 amp service. Then you have no problems.
>>
>> It would be nice have a wall mounted shut off switch within arms reach
>> of the kiln cable connection. A safety measure, whether hardwired to the
>> switch or set up for a cable plug. I prefer the wall switch with cable
>> receptacle myself. There are times, switch or no, that I like to see
>> that plug laying on the floor.
>>
>> My $0.02.
>>
>> John Rodgers
>> Birmigham, AL
>>
>> Beth Martin wrote:
>>
>>> I need to have an electrician come out anyway, so while I'm at it, I'd
>>> like to have them set me up for a large kiln in the future.
>>>
>>> Right now I have a 125-amp panel, with space left for two little
>>> breakers. The kiln I want would need a 60-amp breaker. We have gas
>>> heat,
>>> so just the water heater, dryer, and stove are the major
>>> electricity-suckers on this panel.
>>>
>>> I'm collecting bids from electrician's right now, but I'd like to be
>>> armed with information before they come out.
>>>
>>> If you have an electric kiln (or even more than one) at home, I'd
>>> like to
>>> know how big it is and what sort of service you have: 125-amp? 200-amp?
>>> 125-amp with sub-panel?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help! :)
>>>
>>> Beth Martin
>>> beth.martin@lovemail.com
>>> http://home.attbi.com/~themartinfamily
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>>
>>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>>
>>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Jim Tabor on fri 2 may 03
electricity...
John Rodgers wrote:
> Maurice,
>
> You are quite right. I have mis-spoken myself.
>
> If the total current draw of all the service loops through all the
> breakers in the panel exceeds the rated service on the panel the main
> breaker will trip, shutting off the power.
Another situation to consider. You can trip the breaker on the
transformer WITHOUT tripping the breaker on your service panel. I didn't
know there was a breaker there until my power shut off 3 times when my 4
kilns had been on high for awhile at the same time.
I was firing 200+ trophies to be awarder at the end of a race in Dallas
with a tight deadline. I kept losing power and the breakers in my 200amp
panel were still on. After calling the power company and informing them
of the crisis the third time, they sent out some men and trucks to
change to a larger transformer on the pole. Everything fired fine and
was still warm on delivery when the runners were crossing the finish
line. Poor timing for me to need all 4 kilns on high at the same time.
My panel apparently could handle the load but not the transformer.
Jim Tabor
John Rodgers on sun 4 may 03
electricity...
Jim, If you were pulling more than the limit of the service panel
breaker and it did not trip, you need to have an electrician have a look
at the breakers on your panel. You are ripe for a house fire.
John Rodgers
Birminham, AL
Jim Tabor wrote:
> John Rodgers wrote:
>
>> Maurice,
>>
>> You are quite right. I have mis-spoken myself.
>>
>> If the total current draw of all the service loops through all the
>> breakers in the panel exceeds the rated service on the panel the main
>> breaker will trip, shutting off the power.
>
>
> Another situation to consider. You can trip the breaker on the
> transformer WITHOUT tripping the breaker on your service panel. I didn't
> know there was a breaker there until my power shut off 3 times when my 4
> kilns had been on high for awhile at the same time.
>
> I was firing 200+ trophies to be awarder at the end of a race in Dallas
> with a tight deadline. I kept losing power and the breakers in my 200amp
> panel were still on. After calling the power company and informing them
> of the crisis the third time, they sent out some men and trucks to
> change to a larger transformer on the pole. Everything fired fine and
> was still warm on delivery when the runners were crossing the finish
> line. Poor timing for me to need all 4 kilns on high at the same time.
> My panel apparently could handle the load but not the transformer.
>
> Jim Tabor
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
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