mudslingers@ATT.NET on sat 3 may 03
ok, what's the deal with orton changing the temperature
of cone 6? has anyone heard of this?
i called skutt this week for some info and during my
discussion (with the very personable tech: neal) i
found out that what i -- but more importantly MY KILN
(8 yrs old) -- beleive to be cone 6 at around 2185
degrees is no longer cone 6! neal informed me that
orton changed the temp of the cone 6 cones a couple
years ago and it is now 2232! (one could assume other
cone temps have changed too, or call orton to be sure)
what about all the glazes formulated for the old
cone 6? how do you know which version of cones you
are using? or which glazes have been reformulated
(assuming commercial glazes)? YES i know you can
always just go by the cones: if the cones aren't
bending enough, do a hold. (but neal also said one
shouldn't make a habit of doing a "Hold" at high
temps cause it weakens the elements quicker). also,
i don't know about anyone else's kiln, but MY kiln
is rarely even! and it is often hotter on the bottom
(which neal said is not common), so ususally my cones
are at, close or just over what you'd expect for a
perfect firing. again, hard to tell just what temp
you should be shooting for.
well maybe in the end, it doesn't matter all that
much, but i just found it jarring to hear of this!
any thoughts?
lauren
--
Lauren Bellero
Mudslingers Pottery
Red Bank, NJ 07701
http://mudslingers.home.att.net
732.747.4853
Ababi on sat 3 may 03
Hello Lauren.
This is what I know.
^6 can be 1222C ( as you have written in F) or even 1201C (2193.8 F)
In the short time I am in ceramics these are the numbers.
On the other hand 1220 can be ^7 ( When I do my crystal firing with a half empty kiln).
^6 can be 1240C 2264F like the name of Bailey's ^6 glazes book.
It is the heat-work. When the kiln is empty it fires fast.
Did you check your elements?
Perhaps bad isolation?
Hope I help.
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
http://www.milkywayceramics.com/cgallery/asharon.htm
---------- Original Message ----------
>ok, what's the deal with orton changing the temperature
>of cone 6? has anyone heard of this?
>i called skutt this week for some info and during my
>discussion (with the very personable tech: neal) i
>found out that what i -- but more importantly MY KILN
>(8 yrs old) -- beleive to be cone 6 at around 2185
>degrees is no longer cone 6! neal informed me that
>orton changed the temp of the cone 6 cones a couple
>years ago and it is now 2232! (one could assume other
>cone temps have changed too, or call orton to be sure)
>what about all the glazes formulated for the old
>cone 6? how do you know which version of cones you
>are using? or which glazes have been reformulated
>(assuming commercial glazes)? YES i know you can
>always just go by the cones: if the cones aren't
>bending enough, do a hold. (but neal also said one
>shouldn't make a habit of doing a "Hold" at high
>temps cause it weakens the elements quicker). also,
>i don't know about anyone else's kiln, but MY kiln
>is rarely even! and it is often hotter on the bottom
>(which neal said is not common), so ususally my cones
>are at, close or just over what you'd expect for a
>perfect firing. again, hard to tell just what temp
>you should be shooting for.
>well maybe in the end, it doesn't matter all that
>much, but i just found it jarring to hear of this!
>any thoughts?
>lauren
>--
>Lauren Bellero
>Mudslingers Pottery
>Red Bank, NJ 07701
>http://mudslingers.home.att.net
>732.747.4853
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Jennifer Buckner on sat 3 may 03
At 08:10 PM 5/2/2003, Lauren Bellero wrote:
>ok, what's the deal with orton changing the temperature
>of cone 6? has anyone heard of this?
>
>i called skutt this week for some info and during my
>discussion (with the very personable tech: neal) i
>found out that what i -- but more importantly MY KILN
>(8 yrs old) -- beleive to be cone 6 at around 2185
>degrees is no longer cone 6! neal informed me that
>orton changed the temp of the cone 6 cones a couple
>years ago and it is now 2232! (one could assume other
>cone temps have changed too, or call orton to be sure)
I was told the same thing by the tech on the Help line at L & L. I've now
seen 3 different temps quoted as "the" ^6 temp. Can someone clarify this?
Jennifer (Champlain Islands, VT)
Jennifer G. Buckner jenniverre@earthlink.net
Lois Ruben Aronow on sat 3 may 03
My guess is, that like everything else in life, your milage may vary.
If YOUR kiln is firing YOUR work to YOUR liking, that that's the
temperature it should be. Every kiln is different. You're lucky to
have your own, because you can fire it any way you like.
If 2232 is too hot for you (and it is for me) then create a ramp
program on your computer to hit the temp you want. For the record,
2185 is too cool for me, and I fire somewhere in between. =20
I never heard that hold burns out the elements any more than usual,
but I would suggest creating your own firing schedule instead. The
cone temp is based on work heat, not degree heat, so you'll need that
climb at the end to hit your top temperature more easily and reliably.
Orton changed the cone temp about 3 years ago, so if it's been working
for you up to this point, don't sweat it.
Modern Porcelain and Tableware
http://www.loisaronow.com=20
Jim Tabor on sat 3 may 03
This may be a little unsettling to anyone on the list that may have/suffer
from type A personality disorder but one thing you can be certain of is the
temp for ^6 (and other targets) will NOT be exact throughout your kiln and
you will need to aim for an acceptable range in clay and glaze. Two cones
and more can work with a good marriage of materials. Firing process (time &
atmosphere) will also affect the results. Celebrate the sucess when the
"close tolerance system" works and make certain you allow a range as needed
when critical output needs arise. Be as sensitive as your materials are even
if you need to be a Type A.
Jim Tabor
C group and stress free
Charles Moore on sat 3 may 03
Lauren,
Orton's re-calibration of cones occurred some time back. I am sending a cc
to Tim Frederich at Orton Co. I am sure he can explain; he is very
attentive.
One suggestion about the variation in temperature: if you are firing hotter
at the bottom and the problem is not a matter of worn elements, could it be
the way you are stacking you firings? I suggest contacting Arnold Howard at
Paragon (check his cc above).
Hope this helps.
Charles
Sacramento
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: cone 6 is not cone 6??
> ok, what's the deal with orton changing the temperature
> of cone 6? has anyone heard of this?
>
> i called skutt this week for some info and during my
> discussion (with the very personable tech: neal) i
> found out that what i -- but more importantly MY KILN
> (8 yrs old) -- beleive to be cone 6 at around 2185
> degrees is no longer cone 6! neal informed me that
> orton changed the temp of the cone 6 cones a couple
> years ago and it is now 2232! (one could assume other
> cone temps have changed too, or call orton to be sure)
>
> what about all the glazes formulated for the old
> cone 6? how do you know which version of cones you
> are using? or which glazes have been reformulated
> (assuming commercial glazes)? YES i know you can
> always just go by the cones: if the cones aren't
> bending enough, do a hold. (but neal also said one
> shouldn't make a habit of doing a "Hold" at high
> temps cause it weakens the elements quicker). also,
> i don't know about anyone else's kiln, but MY kiln
> is rarely even! and it is often hotter on the bottom
> (which neal said is not common), so ususally my cones
> are at, close or just over what you'd expect for a
> perfect firing. again, hard to tell just what temp
> you should be shooting for.
>
> well maybe in the end, it doesn't matter all that
> much, but i just found it jarring to hear of this!
>
> any thoughts?
> lauren
>
> --
> Lauren Bellero
> Mudslingers Pottery
> Red Bank, NJ 07701
> http://mudslingers.home.att.net
> 732.747.4853
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Earl Brunner on sat 3 may 03
Just because he was a personable person, doesn't mean he knows what he
is talking about.
http://www.ortonceramic.com/Center/cone_ref.html
Go to the source. Their charts don't agree with what you have written
from your no-doubt well meaning person at Skutt.
One of the problems that you have to deal with when talking about cones
is keeping the type and sizes straight. A cone six free standing, a
cone 6 regular and a cone 6 small cone all bend at different
temperatures. But that is nothing new.
I believe that they did make some kind of adjustment YEARS ago, but that
was probably even before the timeframe that you are talking about, it
wasn't like yesterday or even last year....
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
mudslingers@ATT.NET
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 5:11 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: cone 6 is not cone 6??
ok, what's the deal with orton changing the temperature
of cone 6? has anyone heard of this?
i called skutt this week for some info and during my
discussion (with the very personable tech: neal) i
found out that what i -- but more importantly MY KILN
(8 yrs old) -- beleive to be cone 6 at around 2185
degrees is no longer cone 6! neal informed me that
orton changed the temp of the cone 6 cones a couple
years ago and it is now 2232! (one could assume other
cone temps have changed too, or call orton to be sure)
Carole Fox on sat 3 may 03
Lois wrote:
"Orton changed the cone temp about 3 years ago.."
But, if Orton changed the cone temp. three years ago, why is the box of
large cones I received in my last order suddenly a different color? Or does
the color have nothing to do with it?
Carole Fox
Elkton, MD
thesilverfox@dol.net
Lois Ruben Aronow on sun 4 may 03
On Sat, 3 May 2003 19:04:25 -0400, you wrote:
>Lois wrote:
>"Orton changed the cone temp about 3 years ago.."
>
>But, if Orton changed the cone temp. three years ago, why is the box of
>large cones I received in my last order suddenly a different color? Or =
does
>the color have nothing to do with it?
I believe it has nothing to do with the cone temp. Rather, it has
more to do with the color - the colors of the 6 and 7 were very
similar. It is now much easier to differentiate the 2.
Modern Porcelain and Tableware
http://www.loisaronow.com=20
Bob Nicholson on sun 4 may 03
>ok, what's the deal with orton changing the temperature
>of cone 6? has anyone heard of this?
It's important to remember that cones are not the same as
temperature. Cones measure heat-work.
The final temperature for a firing to a specific cone is related
to the rate of heat rise. For example, the Orton chart shows
three values for Cone 6, based on the rise rate per hour:
RISE FINAL
27 2165
108 2232
270 2269
Also remember that the figures for self-supporting cones,
large cones, and small cones are slightly different.
To my knowledge, Orton has not made any changes to the
cone 6 values in recent year, but depending on which
figure is being quoted for which cone, you may hear
different temperatures.
As others have pointed out, glazing is a somewhat
inexact science; whatever the temperature numbers
you read from the chart, you need to learn what works
with your glazes and your kiln.
Hope this helps clarify things a little.
- Bob Nicholson
Snail Scott on sun 4 may 03
At 07:04 PM 5/3/03 -0400, you wrote:
>But, if Orton changed the cone temp. three years ago, why is the box of
>large cones I received in my last order suddenly a different color? Or does
>the color have nothing to do with it...
The manufacturer may have switched over three years ago,
but your local supplier may not have sold all the old
ones until now. Especially if it's an odd temperature,
your previous box may have sat on the shelf for years,
and the supplier didn't have to re-order 'til recently.
It's not like they go bad sitting around, after all.
-Snail
Earl Brunner on sun 4 may 03
The color changes in the Orton cones or more like food coloring or a dye
than indicative of a change in the chemistry of the cones. I believe
this was done primarily as an aid to the end user to enable them to
easily differentiate between the cones and to get the order right
without having to just rely on looking at the numbers on the cones.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Lois Ruben
Aronow
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 5:30 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: cone 6 is not cone 6??
On Sat, 3 May 2003 19:04:25 -0400, you wrote:
>Lois wrote:
>"Orton changed the cone temp about 3 years ago.."
>
>But, if Orton changed the cone temp. three years ago, why is the box of
>large cones I received in my last order suddenly a different color? Or
does
>the color have nothing to do with it?
I believe it has nothing to do with the cone temp. Rather, it has
more to do with the color - the colors of the 6 and 7 were very
similar. It is now much easier to differentiate the 2.
Modern Porcelain and Tableware
http://www.loisaronow.com
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Arnold Howard on mon 5 may 03
The current cone 6 pre-fired color is fuchsia. Cone 7 is orange.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
www.paragonweb.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Brunner
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] cone 6 is not cone 6??
> The color changes in the Orton cones or more like food coloring or a
dye
> than indicative of a change in the chemistry of the cones. I believe
> this was done primarily as an aid to the end user to enable them to
> easily differentiate between the cones and to get the order right
> without having to just rely on looking at the numbers on the cones.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Lois
Ruben
> Aronow
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 5:30 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: cone 6 is not cone 6??
>
> On Sat, 3 May 2003 19:04:25 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Lois wrote:
> >"Orton changed the cone temp about 3 years ago.."
> >
> >But, if Orton changed the cone temp. three years ago, why is the box
of
> >large cones I received in my last order suddenly a different color?
Or
> does
> >the color have nothing to do with it?
> I believe it has nothing to do with the cone temp. Rather, it has
> more to do with the color - the colors of the 6 and 7 were very
> similar. It is now much easier to differentiate the 2.
> Modern Porcelain and Tableware
> http://www.loisaronow.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> ______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
iandol on mon 5 may 03
Dear Friends,
Since, as I understand it, the pyrometric devices made by the Orton =
Foundation have to conform to a standard of specification, any change to =
that would be found in the records of the American Society for Testing =
Materials. Specifications for Orton Cones should have an ASTM code.
Changing the specification for these things would cost a lot of money. I =
recall Tim outlined the manufacture of cones in an article in PMI a =
couple of years ago.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis=20
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