Carol Olavarri on sat 3 may 03
Hi,
I will soon be ordering a Kress kiln and am very new to this art. We live in
Hawaii and and the cost of electricity is very high. Is it possible to run
it off of say a 13000 KW generator? My husband seems to think it would
work. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated. I cannot go gas
as way beyond my means so am stuck with electric.
Thanks for any help, Aloha,
Carol
----- OriginaMessage -----
From: "Carl Finch"
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Clayart Topics
> At 11:01 PM 5/2/03 -0400, Karin Hurt wrote:
> >I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but lately we get an awful lot
of
> >Clayart mail with subject lines that have nothing to do with clay,
although
> >the content usually does. However, when I open a topic that just says
"hi"
> >and get a content of: "hi, I'm a 16 year old hottie," I get p'od and
decide
> >that from now on I only open mail with a Clay related subject. At the
same
> >time I fell that I may be missing out on valuable information.
> >
> >Hope we can go back to using subject lines relating to clay work.
>
> Email programs (most, or all?) have the ability to SORT ones incoming mail
> into SEPARATE boxes. Thus when I receive mail, all Clayart mail goes to a
> separate "ClayArt" mailbox. I have similar separate boxes for those from
> whom I regularly receive mail. All other mail (porn and other spam, etc.)
> ends up in my "In" box.
>
> I use Eudora. Download and use it free from www.eudora.com
>
> If you need to be "p'od", be so at AOL for either not providing this
> capability, or not making it clear how to do it! ;-)
>
> --Carl
> 66 year old hottie in Medford, Oregon
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Roger Korn on sun 4 may 03
If your generator puts out 13KW (which is what I think you meant, rather
than "13000 KW" = 13 Megawatts), at 240 volts, you can run a kiln as
large as 50 Amps. The generator needs to be rated 13 KW "continuous",
not "peak" or "max".
Roger
Carol Olavarri wrote:
>Hi,
>I will soon be ordering a Kress kiln and am very new to this art. We live in
>Hawaii and and the cost of electricity is very high. Is it possible to run
>it off of say a 13000 KW generator? My husband seems to think it would
>work. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated. I cannot go gas
>as way beyond my means so am stuck with electric.
>
>Thanks for any help, Aloha,
>Carol
>----- OriginaMessage -----
>From: "Carl Finch"
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 10:55 AM
>Subject: Re: Clayart Topics
>
>
>
>
>>At 11:01 PM 5/2/03 -0400, Karin Hurt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but lately we get an awful lot
>>>
>>>
>of
>
>
>>>Clayart mail with subject lines that have nothing to do with clay,
>>>
>>>
>although
>
>
>>>the content usually does. However, when I open a topic that just says
>>>
>>>
>"hi"
>
>
>>>and get a content of: "hi, I'm a 16 year old hottie," I get p'od and
>>>
>>>
>decide
>
>
>>>that from now on I only open mail with a Clay related subject. At the
>>>
>>>
>same
>
>
>>>time I fell that I may be missing out on valuable information.
>>>
>>>Hope we can go back to using subject lines relating to clay work.
>>>
>>>
>>Email programs (most, or all?) have the ability to SORT ones incoming mail
>>into SEPARATE boxes. Thus when I receive mail, all Clayart mail goes to a
>>separate "ClayArt" mailbox. I have similar separate boxes for those from
>>whom I regularly receive mail. All other mail (porn and other spam, etc.)
>>ends up in my "In" box.
>>
>>I use Eudora. Download and use it free from www.eudora.com
>>
>>If you need to be "p'od", be so at AOL for either not providing this
>>capability, or not making it clear how to do it! ;-)
>>
>>--Carl
>>66 year old hottie in Medford, Oregon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>____________________________________________________________________________
>__
>
>
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>
>>
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
--
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
In AZ: PO Box 463
4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
Rimrock, AZ 86335
928-567-5699 <-
In OR: PO Box 436
31330 NW Pacific Ave.
North Plains, OR 97133
503-647-5464
Carol Olavarri on sun 4 may 03
HI John,
Thanks very much. This was really informative. I have been against the
generator idea ( secretly think my husband just wants a bigger gen than he
has now) and do not think with the amount of firing I shall do- maybe once a
month that it shall be prohibitive. They are flexible with fires here-
people still burn trash in barrels though I don't. The tradewinds keep the
air super clean but I figure that pollution has to be going somewhere so
just want to not add any for any other people.
I shall print out all advise I get and go from there. The cost to ship over
is gonna kill me but getting a used one here on the Island is like finding
gold. Wood expensive unless we use the trees around that are like balsa
which burn up in 2 secs. I intend to ask my brother about the home made gas
kiln though as might be feasible. I am interested in functional so that
makes me require more also.
Again thanks much. I envy you Alaska- well someday I shall see it
Have a great one and thanks for your time,
Carol
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers"
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> Carol, I understand about the price of energy to run kilns being
> expensive. I lived in Alaska for a long time, and as with Hiwaii, the
> further out in the bush one went, the more expensive everything got.
>
> As to energy for the kiln, you really need to look at the various
> options and consider the long and short of it.
>
> Electricity: I'm sure it is locally available, everyone has it to one
> degree or another, and it is readily, though expensively available to
> run a kiln. No muss, no fuss or at least minimally so in getting an
> electric kiln hooked up and ready to go.Requires you to buy a kiln on
> the mainland, have it shipped, all relatively expensive - Kiln plus
> shipping, plus hook up.
>
> Gas: I don't know about natural or propane gas there, but expensive I
> would expect as compared to electricity. But would burn clean, minimum
> fuss. If you were inovative, I would bet you could build a small gas
> kiln for less than it would cost you to import an electric kiln. Then
> you would only need to be concerned about gas costs. You would not need
> to be concerned about electrical outages disrupting a firing - unless
> you have used electricity some way in the operation of the gas kiln. Of
> course local ordinances may have a negative impact. But I would
> certainly look into the real cost of gas vs electricity.
>
> Home Owner Generator Electricity - A generator capable of production of
> power to supply 12500 Watts of power - 240 volts at 50-60 amps for 12
> hours is going to be one expensive puppy to purchase. Then there is the
> cost of maintenance on it. Then there is the cost of the gas to run it
> and that to will be a very expensive issue in Hiwaii. If you get a
> diesel fuel generator, the purchase cost will go up again but hourly
> operating cost will be lower. . In Alaska many people living in remote
> locations used one-lungers as they were called - one cylinder diesel
> generators -the Witte Generator was a popular brand. Pricey though but
> more efficient over all, and very dependable, than gas because the same
> fuel could be used to heat your house, and cook with, and heat your hot
> water. Less of a fire hazard than gas. Easier to transport because of
> the reduced fire hazard.
>
> Wood: Local woods might be available if you check around, so a wood fire
> kiln might be an option, although I expect there useable wood would be
> very scarce.. Then there may be environmental concerns as well as code
> limitations.
>
> Coal: Prol'ly out of the question
>
> But I would certainly look into the real cost of gas vs electricity.
> Unless you are in a location where some other fuel is convienently and
> inexpensively available electricity is probably going to be the cheapest
> energy available to you, regardless. In Alaska, in certain areas along
> the coast, there is coal sticking up out of the ground and sand. It's
> low grade, but it burns, and anyone with the will can go to the beaches
> ansimply load theirs truck with it, come home and burn it in their
> stove, kiln or what have you. That is about as cheap as it gets. But for
> most of us any where in the country, even Hiwaii, and even as expensive
> as it is there, electricity is going to be the cheapest energy going.
>
> Good luck on your quest to get up and running on firing.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Rodgers
> Birmingham, AL
>
> > Carol Olavarri wrote:
> >
> >>Hi,
> >>I will soon be ordering a Kress kiln and am very new to this art. We
live in
> >>Hawaii and and the cost of electricity is very high. Is it possible to
run
> >>it off of say a 13000 KW generator? My husband seems to think it would
> >>work. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated. I cannot go
gas
> >>as way beyond my means so am stuck with electric.
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Carol Olavarri on sun 4 may 03
Thanks Roger, I am sure I made a mistake with the 13000. Now just need to
see if I can find kiln falling into correct range and the continuous. Really
needed this info- appreciate it.
Aloha,
Carol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Korn"
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> If your generator puts out 13KW (which is what I think you meant, rather
> than "13000 KW" = 13 Megawatts), at 240 volts, you can run a kiln as
> large as 50 Amps. The generator needs to be rated 13 KW "continuous",
> not "peak" or "max".
>
> Roger
>
> Carol Olavarri wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >I will soon be ordering a Kress kiln and am very new to this art. We live
in
> >Hawaii and and the cost of electricity is very high. Is it possible to
run
> >it off of say a 13000 KW generator? My husband seems to think it would
> >work. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated. I cannot go
gas
> >as way beyond my means so am stuck with electric.
> >
> >Thanks for any help, Aloha,
> >Carol
> >----- OriginaMessage -----
> >From: "Carl Finch"
> >To:
> >Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 10:55 AM
> >Subject: Re: Clayart Topics
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>At 11:01 PM 5/2/03 -0400, Karin Hurt wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but lately we get an awful lot
> >>>
> >>>
> >of
> >
> >
> >>>Clayart mail with subject lines that have nothing to do with clay,
> >>>
> >>>
> >although
> >
> >
> >>>the content usually does. However, when I open a topic that just says
> >>>
> >>>
> >"hi"
> >
> >
> >>>and get a content of: "hi, I'm a 16 year old hottie," I get p'od and
> >>>
> >>>
> >decide
> >
> >
> >>>that from now on I only open mail with a Clay related subject. At the
> >>>
> >>>
> >same
> >
> >
> >>>time I fell that I may be missing out on valuable information.
> >>>
> >>>Hope we can go back to using subject lines relating to clay work.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Email programs (most, or all?) have the ability to SORT ones incoming
mail
> >>into SEPARATE boxes. Thus when I receive mail, all Clayart mail goes to
a
> >>separate "ClayArt" mailbox. I have similar separate boxes for those
from
> >>whom I regularly receive mail. All other mail (porn and other spam,
etc.)
> >>ends up in my "In" box.
> >>
> >>I use Eudora. Download and use it free from www.eudora.com
> >>
> >>If you need to be "p'od", be so at AOL for either not providing this
> >>capability, or not making it clear how to do it! ;-)
> >>
> >>--Carl
> >>66 year old hottie in Medford, Oregon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
_
> >__
> >
> >
> >>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >>
> >>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >>
> >>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >>
> >>
> >melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Roger Korn
> McKay Creek Ceramics
> In AZ: PO Box 463
> 4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
> Rimrock, AZ 86335
> 928-567-5699 <-
> In OR: PO Box 436
> 31330 NW Pacific Ave.
> North Plains, OR 97133
> 503-647-5464
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
John Rodgers on sun 4 may 03
Carol, I understand about the price of energy to run kilns being
expensive. I lived in Alaska for a long time, and as with Hiwaii, the
further out in the bush one went, the more expensive everything got.
As to energy for the kiln, you really need to look at the various
options and consider the long and short of it.
Electricity: I'm sure it is locally available, everyone has it to one
degree or another, and it is readily, though expensively available to
run a kiln. No muss, no fuss or at least minimally so in getting an
electric kiln hooked up and ready to go.Requires you to buy a kiln on
the mainland, have it shipped, all relatively expensive - Kiln plus
shipping, plus hook up.
Gas: I don't know about natural or propane gas there, but expensive I
would expect as compared to electricity. But would burn clean, minimum
fuss. If you were inovative, I would bet you could build a small gas
kiln for less than it would cost you to import an electric kiln. Then
you would only need to be concerned about gas costs. You would not need
to be concerned about electrical outages disrupting a firing - unless
you have used electricity some way in the operation of the gas kiln. Of
course local ordinances may have a negative impact. But I would
certainly look into the real cost of gas vs electricity.
Home Owner Generator Electricity - A generator capable of production of
power to supply 12500 Watts of power - 240 volts at 50-60 amps for 12
hours is going to be one expensive puppy to purchase. Then there is the
cost of maintenance on it. Then there is the cost of the gas to run it
and that to will be a very expensive issue in Hiwaii. If you get a
diesel fuel generator, the purchase cost will go up again but hourly
operating cost will be lower. . In Alaska many people living in remote
locations used one-lungers as they were called - one cylinder diesel
generators -the Witte Generator was a popular brand. Pricey though but
more efficient over all, and very dependable, than gas because the same
fuel could be used to heat your house, and cook with, and heat your hot
water. Less of a fire hazard than gas. Easier to transport because of
the reduced fire hazard.
Wood: Local woods might be available if you check around, so a wood fire
kiln might be an option, although I expect there useable wood would be
very scarce.. Then there may be environmental concerns as well as code
limitations.
Coal: Prol'ly out of the question
But I would certainly look into the real cost of gas vs electricity.
Unless you are in a location where some other fuel is convienently and
inexpensively available electricity is probably going to be the cheapest
energy available to you, regardless. In Alaska, in certain areas along
the coast, there is coal sticking up out of the ground and sand. It's
low grade, but it burns, and anyone with the will can go to the beaches
ansimply load theirs truck with it, come home and burn it in their
stove, kiln or what have you. That is about as cheap as it gets. But for
most of us any where in the country, even Hiwaii, and even as expensive
as it is there, electricity is going to be the cheapest energy going.
Good luck on your quest to get up and running on firing.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
> Carol Olavarri wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>I will soon be ordering a Kress kiln and am very new to this art. We live in
>>Hawaii and and the cost of electricity is very high. Is it possible to run
>>it off of say a 13000 KW generator? My husband seems to think it would
>>work. Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated. I cannot go gas
>>as way beyond my means so am stuck with electric.
>>
>>
>>
Michael Wendt on mon 5 may 03
Don't do it. Go propane fueled gas kiln. Or use electricity off the line.
Here's why: A gasoline powered generator is about 15% efficient. Nearly 85%
of the gasoline is wasted. A diesel generator can be over 20% efficient, but
even then, 80% of the fuel is still wasted. By contrast, a gas fired kiln
converts the fuel directly to heat which then does the firing. Even
electricity off the grid would likely be cheaper than electricity you make
with a generator. Now add to this the cost of the purchase and maintenance
of the generator and you will find it to be more expensive than line power.
For my estimates, see below.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Avenue
Lewiston, Idaho 83501
1-208-746-3724
wendtpottery.com
boring but necessary calcs:
13000 watts= 13 kw. Here, it costs 0.07/kw . Assume you run on high for 10
hours: in Idaho it costs 10 hours/load x 13kw/hr x $0.07/kw= $9.10 per
load. If your electricity is 4 times more ($0.28/kw hour), you would spend
$36.40 per load ($9.10 x 4 = $36.40).
Now consider the generator. Cost? Great Plains lists a 15 kw generator at
$3104. Add in delivery and get say $3500. at full load, 13kw continuous, it
uses 2.5 gallons per hour. If gas costs $1.60 per gallon, that hour will
cost you $1.60 x 2.5 = $4.00. From this we see that off the grid break even
is $4.00/ 13kw = $0.308/kw hour.
NOW, figure you run 100 loads for pay off of the generator. Pay off requires
allocation of $3500/100 loads= $35/load. I set an arbitrary 10 hour on full
as the total power used so that equals $35/10 = $3.50 per hour additional
cost just from the purchase of the generator. Now think of air filters, oil
and oil filters, spark plugs, won't start, need mechanic, etc. You get the
picture... Don't do it. Unless power off the grid exceeds $0.70 per kw hour
in your area, you will be sorry you chose to use a generator. Go propane.
Carol Olavarri on mon 5 may 03
Dear Michael,
Thanks so much- this has been printed out and placed in plain site- HA- we
pay 21 cents per KW here ( just called and asked). What you say makes a
great deal of sense. Husband can just darn well buy himself a bigger gen to
use with his welder and not lay it off on my kiln. I REALLY appreciate all
the work and time and thought you put into this e mail as it made it so very
plain for me. When one starts talking generators and such I zone out but you
made it downright interesting. Now I shall start kiln shopping. Anyone have
a Kress kiln for sale? Picking Kress as my clay teacher used to be a Kress
repairperson and here on Island they are as rare as snakes.
Have a great one and again thanks.
Carol
P.S For all you kind people who have helped with this if ever on Big Island
pop me a note and I will by you "ono" good lunch. C
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Wendt"
To:
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> Don't do it. Go propane fueled gas kiln. Or use electricity off the line.
> Here's why: A gasoline powered generator is about 15% efficient. Nearly
85%
> of the gasoline is wasted. A diesel generator can be over 20% efficient,
but
> even then, 80% of the fuel is still wasted. By contrast, a gas fired kiln
> converts the fuel directly to heat which then does the firing. Even
> electricity off the grid would likely be cheaper than electricity you make
> with a generator. Now add to this the cost of the purchase and maintenance
> of the generator and you will find it to be more expensive than line
power.
> For my estimates, see below.
> Regards,
> Michael Wendt
> Wendt Pottery
> 2729 Clearwater Avenue
> Lewiston, Idaho 83501
> 1-208-746-3724
> wendtpottery.com
> boring but necessary calcs:
> 13000 watts= 13 kw. Here, it costs 0.07/kw . Assume you run on high for 10
> hours: in Idaho it costs 10 hours/load x 13kw/hr x $0.07/kw= $9.10 per
> load. If your electricity is 4 times more ($0.28/kw hour), you would
spend
> $36.40 per load ($9.10 x 4 = $36.40).
> Now consider the generator. Cost? Great Plains lists a 15 kw generator at
> $3104. Add in delivery and get say $3500. at full load, 13kw continuous,
it
> uses 2.5 gallons per hour. If gas costs $1.60 per gallon, that hour will
> cost you $1.60 x 2.5 = $4.00. From this we see that off the grid break
even
> is $4.00/ 13kw = $0.308/kw hour.
> NOW, figure you run 100 loads for pay off of the generator. Pay off
requires
> allocation of $3500/100 loads= $35/load. I set an arbitrary 10 hour on
full
> as the total power used so that equals $35/10 = $3.50 per hour additional
> cost just from the purchase of the generator. Now think of air filters,
oil
> and oil filters, spark plugs, won't start, need mechanic, etc. You get the
> picture... Don't do it. Unless power off the grid exceeds $0.70 per kw
hour
> in your area, you will be sorry you chose to use a generator. Go propane.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 5 may 03
I like the idea, that is, if one aspire to run an Electric
Kiln...or if one aspire to run anything...with Electricity.
When I move, 'finally', I shall have a nice, (big, handsome,
robust, and I hope, 'Old') Generator for
myself.
I almost got one awhile back as ( I forget the output, but )
seemed 'sufficient'...powered by a two-hundred eighty odd
cubic
inch Six-Cylinder "Herculese" (Side-Valve - aka 'Flat Head')
Engine, the whole being on 'skids' and seeming a mite
'heavy'
to me so far as getting it brought home and all...
Made 1961 and needed a little 'tlc', but the price was
'right' I felt, being some $500.00...it was clean and had no
visable damage. 'Parts' did not appear to be a problem to my
cursory researches, so
far as rings and mainbearings and so on went, should it have
needed them, and maybe it didn't...or, one could set up
about any used Engine of
suitable Horse Power to run the Electricity making
part...reconfigure the outfit for that...if one wanted.
Or jack up the 'Car' and run a hefty 'Belt' from a rear
wheel...and use the thing as-needed...
It did not look like it would be shy from making 'plenty' of
Amps, or 'watts' or...
Plenty of spunk, anyway...
So...once I am moved from here and have more room...I'll
do it then...fine me one and bring 'er home and use it
happily too.
Run my 'lights' and little 'fridge from 'Batteries', and
fire 'er up as needed for other matters or to recharge the
Battery banks...
The hell with these infernal 'power companies'...I'd rather
'pay' more to spite the bastards than continue to be a sap.
Or even...find a Gas line as is some ways before the 'meter'
and
when they are doing their 'maintenance' , (or, with some
precipitateing interventions as may inspire them TO 'do'
some 'maintenance' ) and they have
matters thence
in the 'off' mode, as they must do, just run a little
stub of a 'line' with a nice Ball Valve on it, and return to
it at one's liesure...whilst 'Gardening' or whatever, and be
a
happy boy or girl...
Keeps the 'Oil' clean, and so on too
that-a-way...round up some old 'Propane' Carburetor
set-up...and...let 'er "purr"...
And why not?
Like they would not ( in fact, do not) 'do' the same?
Ha!
...if 'enron' is good enough for mr bush and his golf
buddies, who am I to argue?
Are we not obliged to their guidence by example in these
(and other)
matters?
Phil
el vee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol Olavarri"
To:
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> HI John,
>
> Thanks very much. This was really informative. I have been
against the
> generator idea ( secretly think my husband just wants a
bigger gen than he
> has now) and do not think with the amount of firing I
shall do- maybe once a
> month that it shall be prohibitive. They are flexible with
fires here-
> people still burn trash in barrels though I don't. The
tradewinds keep the
> air super clean but I figure that pollution has to be
going somewhere so
> just want to not add any for any other people.
>
> I shall print out all advise I get and go from there. The
cost to ship over
> is gonna kill me but getting a used one here on the Island
is like finding
> gold. Wood expensive unless we use the trees around that
are like balsa
> which burn up in 2 secs. I intend to ask my brother about
the home made gas
> kiln though as might be feasible. I am interested in
functional so that
> makes me require more also.
>
> Again thanks much. I envy you Alaska- well someday I shall
see it
>
> Have a great one and thanks for your time,
> Carol
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Rodgers"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
>
>
> > Carol, I understand about the price of energy to run
kilns being
> > expensive. I lived in Alaska for a long time, and as
with Hiwaii, the
> > further out in the bush one went, the more expensive
everything got.
> >
> > As to energy for the kiln, you really need to look at
the various
> > options and consider the long and short of it.
> >
> > Electricity: I'm sure it is locally available, everyone
has it to one
> > degree or another, and it is readily, though expensively
available to
> > run a kiln. No muss, no fuss or at least minimally so in
getting an
> > electric kiln hooked up and ready to go.Requires you to
buy a kiln on
> > the mainland, have it shipped, all relatively
expensive - Kiln plus
> > shipping, plus hook up.
> >
> > Gas: I don't know about natural or propane gas there,
but expensive I
> > would expect as compared to electricity. But would burn
clean, minimum
> > fuss. If you were inovative, I would bet you could build
a small gas
> > kiln for less than it would cost you to import an
electric kiln. Then
> > you would only need to be concerned about gas costs. You
would not need
> > to be concerned about electrical outages disrupting a
firing - unless
> > you have used electricity some way in the operation of
the gas kiln. Of
> > course local ordinances may have a negative impact. But
I would
> > certainly look into the real cost of gas vs electricity.
> >
> > Home Owner Generator Electricity - A generator capable
of production of
> > power to supply 12500 Watts of power - 240 volts at
50-60 amps for 12
> > hours is going to be one expensive puppy to purchase.
Then there is the
> > cost of maintenance on it. Then there is the cost of the
gas to run it
> > and that to will be a very expensive issue in Hiwaii.
If you get a
> > diesel fuel generator, the purchase cost will go up
again but hourly
> > operating cost will be lower. . In Alaska many people
living in remote
> > locations used one-lungers as they were called - one
cylinder diesel
> > generators -the Witte Generator was a popular brand.
Pricey though but
> > more efficient over all, and very dependable, than gas
because the same
> > fuel could be used to heat your house, and cook with,
and heat your hot
> > water. Less of a fire hazard than gas. Easier to
transport because of
> > the reduced fire hazard.
> >
> > Wood: Local woods might be available if you check
around, so a wood fire
> > kiln might be an option, although I expect there useable
wood would be
> > very scarce.. Then there may be environmental concerns
as well as code
> > limitations.
> >
> > Coal: Prol'ly out of the question
> >
> > But I would certainly look into the real cost of gas vs
electricity.
> > Unless you are in a location where some other fuel is
convienently and
> > inexpensively available electricity is probably going to
be the cheapest
> > energy available to you, regardless. In Alaska, in
certain areas along
> > the coast, there is coal sticking up out of the ground
and sand. It's
> > low grade, but it burns, and anyone with the will can go
to the beaches
> > ansimply load theirs truck with it, come home and burn
it in their
> > stove, kiln or what have you. That is about as cheap as
it gets. But for
> > most of us any where in the country, even Hiwaii, and
even as expensive
> > as it is there, electricity is going to be the cheapest
energy going.
> >
> > Good luck on your quest to get up and running on firing.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Rodgers
> > Birmingham, AL
> >
> > > Carol Olavarri wrote:
> > >
> > >>Hi,
> > >>I will soon be ordering a Kress kiln and am very new
to this art. We
> live in
> > >>Hawaii and and the cost of electricity is very high.
Is it possible to
> run
> > >>it off of say a 13000 KW generator? My husband seems
to think it would
> > >>work. Any help on this subject would be greatly
appreciated. I cannot go
> gas
> > >>as way beyond my means so am stuck with electric.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________
________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
Carol Olavarri on tue 6 may 03
Hi,
Boy you and my husband would get along great. He would love to run
everything off generators and batteries. I agree with the whole concept but
guess I am spoiled so try to eliminate the generator in my fields and use in
his. HA- mechanically challenged I am and even the thought of using a kiln
is daunting enough at this point without adding in running the generator. I
would love to be able to bypass the electric company as we pay 27 cents. Now
give me windpower. That I would love but the Native Hawaiians just do not
like windmills dotting the countryside which I can agree can be unsightly.
Thanks for your time and your input. I do so appreciate all the help and
advise I have been given.
Much Aloha,
Carol
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> I like the idea, that is, if one aspire to run an Electric
> Kiln...or if one aspire to run anything...with Electricity.
>
> When I move, 'finally', I shall have a nice, (big, handsome,
> robust, and I hope, 'Old') Generator for
> myself.
>
> I almost got one awhile back as ( I forget the output, but )
> seemed 'sufficient'...powered by a two-hundred eighty odd
> cubic
> inch Six-Cylinder "Herculese" (Side-Valve - aka 'Flat Head')
> Engine, the whole being on 'skids' and seeming a mite
> 'heavy'
> to me so far as getting it brought home and all...
>
> Made 1961 and needed a little 'tlc', but the price was
> 'right' I felt, being some $500.00...it was clean and had no
> visable damage. 'Parts' did not appear to be a problem to my
> cursory researches, so
> far as rings and mainbearings and so on went, should it have
> needed them, and maybe it didn't...or, one could set up
> about any used Engine of
> suitable Horse Power to run the Electricity making
> part...reconfigure the outfit for that...if one wanted.
>
> Or jack up the 'Car' and run a hefty 'Belt' from a rear
> wheel...and use the thing as-needed...
>
> It did not look like it would be shy from making 'plenty' of
> Amps, or 'watts' or...
>
> Plenty of spunk, anyway...
>
> So...once I am moved from here and have more room...I'll
> do it then...fine me one and bring 'er home and use it
> happily too.
>
> Run my 'lights' and little 'fridge from 'Batteries', and
> fire 'er up as needed for other matters or to recharge the
> Battery banks...
>
> The hell with these infernal 'power companies'...I'd rather
> 'pay' more to spite the bastards than continue to be a sap.
>
> Or even...find a Gas line as is some ways before the 'meter'
> and
> when they are doing their 'maintenance' , (or, with some
> precipitateing interventions as may inspire them TO 'do'
> some 'maintenance' ) and they have
> matters thence
> in the 'off' mode, as they must do, just run a little
> stub of a 'line' with a nice Ball Valve on it, and return to
> it at one's liesure...whilst 'Gardening' or whatever, and be
> a
> happy boy or girl...
>
> Keeps the 'Oil' clean, and so on too
> that-a-way...round up some old 'Propane' Carburetor
> set-up...and...let 'er "purr"...
>
> And why not?
>
> Like they would not ( in fact, do not) 'do' the same?
>
> Ha!
>
> ...if 'enron' is good enough for mr bush and his golf
> buddies, who am I to argue?
>
> Are we not obliged to their guidence by example in these
> (and other)
> matters?
>
> Phil
> el vee
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carol Olavarri"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
>
>
> > HI John,
> >
> > Thanks very much. This was really informative. I have been
> against the
> > generator idea ( secretly think my husband just wants a
> bigger gen than he
> > has now) and do not think with the amount of firing I
> shall do- maybe once a
> > month that it shall be prohibitive. They are flexible with
> fires here-
> > people still burn trash in barrels though I don't. The
> tradewinds keep the
> > air super clean but I figure that pollution has to be
> going somewhere so
> > just want to not add any for any other people.
> >
> > I shall print out all advise I get and go from there. The
> cost to ship over
> > is gonna kill me but getting a used one here on the Island
> is like finding
> > gold. Wood expensive unless we use the trees around that
> are like balsa
> > which burn up in 2 secs. I intend to ask my brother about
> the home made gas
> > kiln though as might be feasible. I am interested in
> functional so that
> > makes me require more also.
> >
> > Again thanks much. I envy you Alaska- well someday I shall
> see it
> >
> > Have a great one and thanks for your time,
> > Carol
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Rodgers"
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:13 AM
> > Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> >
> >
> > > Carol, I understand about the price of energy to run
> kilns being
> > > expensive. I lived in Alaska for a long time, and as
> with Hiwaii, the
> > > further out in the bush one went, the more expensive
> everything got.
> > >
> > > As to energy for the kiln, you really need to look at
> the various
> > > options and consider the long and short of it.
> > >
> > > Electricity: I'm sure it is locally available, everyone
> has it to one
> > > degree or another, and it is readily, though expensively
> available to
> > > run a kiln. No muss, no fuss or at least minimally so in
> getting an
> > > electric kiln hooked up and ready to go.Requires you to
> buy a kiln on
> > > the mainland, have it shipped, all relatively
> expensive - Kiln plus
> > > shipping, plus hook up.
> > >
> > > Gas: I don't know about natural or propane gas there,
> but expensive I
> > > would expect as compared to electricity. But would burn
> clean, minimum
> > > fuss. If you were inovative, I would bet you could build
> a small gas
> > > kiln for less than it would cost you to import an
> electric kiln. Then
> > > you would only need to be concerned about gas costs. You
> would not need
> > > to be concerned about electrical outages disrupting a
> firing - unless
> > > you have used electricity some way in the operation of
> the gas kiln. Of
> > > course local ordinances may have a negative impact. But
> I would
> > > certainly look into the real cost of gas vs electricity.
> > >
> > > Home Owner Generator Electricity - A generator capable
> of production of
> > > power to supply 12500 Watts of power - 240 volts at
> 50-60 amps for 12
> > > hours is going to be one expensive puppy to purchase.
> Then there is the
> > > cost of maintenance on it. Then there is the cost of the
> gas to run it
> > > and that to will be a very expensive issue in Hiwaii.
> If you get a
> > > diesel fuel generator, the purchase cost will go up
> again but hourly
> > > operating cost will be lower. . In Alaska many people
> living in remote
> > > locations used one-lungers as they were called - one
> cylinder diesel
> > > generators -the Witte Generator was a popular brand.
> Pricey though but
> > > more efficient over all, and very dependable, than gas
> because the same
> > > fuel could be used to heat your house, and cook with,
> and heat your hot
> > > water. Less of a fire hazard than gas. Easier to
> transport because of
> > > the reduced fire hazard.
> > >
> > > Wood: Local woods might be available if you check
> around, so a wood fire
> > > kiln might be an option, although I expect there useable
> wood would be
> > > very scarce.. Then there may be environmental concerns
> as well as code
> > > limitations.
> > >
> > > Coal: Prol'ly out of the question
> > >
> > > But I would certainly look into the real cost of gas vs
> electricity.
> > > Unless you are in a location where some other fuel is
> convienently and
> > > inexpensively available electricity is probably going to
> be the cheapest
> > > energy available to you, regardless. In Alaska, in
> certain areas along
> > > the coast, there is coal sticking up out of the ground
> and sand. It's
> > > low grade, but it burns, and anyone with the will can go
> to the beaches
> > > ansimply load theirs truck with it, come home and burn
> it in their
> > > stove, kiln or what have you. That is about as cheap as
> it gets. But for
> > > most of us any where in the country, even Hiwaii, and
> even as expensive
> > > as it is there, electricity is going to be the cheapest
> energy going.
> > >
> > > Good luck on your quest to get up and running on firing.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > John Rodgers
> > > Birmingham, AL
> > >
> > > > Carol Olavarri wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>Hi,
> > > >>I will soon be ordering a Kress kiln and am very new
> to this art. We
> > live in
> > > >>Hawaii and and the cost of electricity is very high.
> Is it possible to
> > run
> > > >>it off of say a 13000 KW generator? My husband seems
> to think it would
> > > >>work. Any help on this subject would be greatly
> appreciated. I cannot go
> > gas
> > > >>as way beyond my means so am stuck with electric.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> ________________
> > __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
> at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> __________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
> at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Carol Olavarri on wed 7 may 03
Darn Phil,
You put that so wonderfully I want to build a windmill. Only problem is the
neighbors would run me out of the area in a heartbeat. My husband I
thoroughly enjoyed this message. Thanks so much. Aw, the things that could
be if we only let our wings soar.
Aloha,
Carol
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> Hi Carol,
>
> Yes indeed, how wonderful it would be to generate
> Electricity with the Wind...
> And that it is very elegant to do so, or can be.
> Actually, that was allways
> a big dream of mine - and I would still love to do it.
>
> One could certainly make a Windmill as would run a generator
> sufficient to power a Kiln, provided there were something of
> a steady breeze to rely on, and it would be such fun to do
> so too...if maybe a little expensive to build, and needing a
> 'keeper' to attend or maintain somewhat.
>
> Also, one can generate Electricity harnessing the motion of
> Waves or Tides, but not so nicely in some ways compared
> to doing so from the sundry currents of steadily flowing Air
> or
> Water.
>
>
> It would be an interesting task to get Electricity from
> motion of the
> Ocean's
> waves, and it would be an interesting, challengeing project
> to make a
> device as
> would generate enough for a Kiln...but as for
> household Lighting, as is mediated with Batteries, it would
> not be near so huge a chore I don't think.
>
> I had sat down once ( jeeeeesh, like in 1982?) and figured
> out
> the details of running
> my ( then mostly 'envisioned') Shop from a Windmill, or as
> well from the
> Batteries it would
> keep charged, as well as running Machines through shafts and
> belts as are powered directly from the Windmill's
> transmitted rotations...or to sell 'power' to neighbors, if
> I had a truely 'steady' breeze as my companion.
>
> One could also emply a Hydraulic method to transmit the
> Wind's force to run one's Machines or what, rather than
> shafts and
> belts, which is a good option.
>
> One may make large wet Cell Batteries fairly easily, which
> is kinder to the pocket book than the cost and freight of
> buying them. It is helpfulif one likes the smell of Hydrogen
> and Sulfuric Acid, and it is best not to light Cigarettes
> when the big-boys are in a 'charging-mode'...
>
> As I could build a very decent windmill to suit my
> intentions, (or if I had the money for materials, and the
> time and place TO do it,) the entire thing would be a great
> and integrated project to do,
> and
> very nearly all of it 'made' rather than 'bought'...
>
> One may make a dynamo for generateing the 'D-C', and one may
> make a
> generator as well for one's 'A-C' to be run either from the
> Windmill itself, or from a 'D-C'
> Motor as run from the Batteries iif the Breeze is on a
> respite...just as one please, and
> to look as one want them to look, too.
>
> Most modern Windmills as I had seen through the years,
> ( that is, aside from the very scarce now of 'Farm' pump
> types
> and I am not thinking of those for these kinds of 'work') do
> not
> seem to have the torque
> to do much, or, are no longer made forthrightly of Wood, or
> of Wood and Steel, in such ways as where a Man could readily
> make one. They look like they are designed by computers,
> and made by aeronautical firms.
> The older designs as enjoyed promenance in their
> day, are something an intelligent Mechanic can
> build, and even if reduced in
> their scale,
> may put our plenty of torque for one's needs.
>
> I think the one I had decided to make was calculated to
> produce about 32 Horsepower in a six mile an hour wind,
> and
> pretty much silently, too...which would still give me plenty
> in a four or five mile an hour of breeze, or, simply, more
> power
> than I'd ever need maybe anyway...
>
> As it's design enjoyed a self regulateing variable pitch to
> the blades, irregularities in the Wind's velocity were
> somewhat smoothed out as per the setting one elects for the
> R.P.M. regulation as effects the pitch, and also, it moved
> to follow the Wind's
> direction, as did most of the old ones.
>
> In the event of high Winds, one is best to unleash the
> riggings and slide the Oil-Cloths from the Blades...and wait
> matters out. These kind did not rotate swiftly...and ( I do
> not remember now, but) likely are happy at something like,
> or not far from, 20 or 30 to maybe 45 R.P.M. I think...but
> not much more.
>
> The four or six Blades being as some thirty feet in
> length, describe then a circle of some sixty odd
> feet...not something meant to rotate very quickly, nor
> needing to.
>
> This - the mechanical method for Machines to be run from
> some Wind or Water source - had been quite popular at one
> time
> and you may recall that America had near as many Windmills
> as Holland for all
> sorts of tasks.
> Many Shops and small Factories and Mills also were run from
> Water
> Wheels, or from Water driven Turbines set fairly deeply in
> Rivers or
> Streams ( which
> had advantage in
> colder climes when the surface had frozen to some deapth).
>
> One could buy such 'Turbines' mail order through much of the
> second half of the Nineteenth Cent...
> I have no idea of what may be available now in these
> matters, but it is a very good method if one does not mind
> there being not much to see, as compared to a Windmill...
>
> As most of my Machines were 'flat-belt' or remain so, and
> shall even more so over time, and
> others may be readily converted to that way-of-faith, it
> would not be hard to have all my Stationary Machines set up
> to be run from the belts and shafts driven of a Windmill's
> turns. Whilst the smaller Electric Tools could certainly
> be run from a small 'A-C' or some of them on a 'D-C' out-put
> got as above mentioned.
>
> Be fun...and very satisfying I think...
>
> Hmmmmmmm...it is hard to think of anything I'd rather do,
> now that I muse on it!
>
> The best of all 'worlds' in it's way...
>
> Phil
> el vee
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carol Olavarri"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:59 AM
> Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Boy you and my husband would get along great. He would
> love to run
> > everything off generators and batteries. I agree with the
> whole concept but
> > guess I am spoiled so try to eliminate the generator in my
> fields and use in
> > his. HA- mechanically challenged I am and even the thought
> of using a kiln
> > is daunting enough at this point without adding in running
> the generator. I
> > would love to be able to bypass the electric company as we
> pay 27 cents. Now
> > give me windpower. That I would love but the Native
> Hawaiians just do not
> > like windmills dotting the countryside which I can agree
> can be unsightly.
> > Thanks for your time and your input. I do so appreciate
> all the help and
> > advise I have been given.
> >
> > Much Aloha,
> > Carol
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> >
> >
> > > I like the idea, that is, if one aspire to run an
> Electric
> > > Kiln...or if one aspire to run anything...with
> Electricity.
> > >
> > > When I move, 'finally', I shall have a nice, (big,
> handsome,
> > > robust, and I hope, 'Old') Generator for
> > > myself.
> > >
> > > I almost got one awhile back as ( I forget the output,
> but )
> > > seemed 'sufficient'...powered by a two-hundred eighty
> odd
> > > cubic
> > > inch Six-Cylinder "Herculese" (Side-Valve - aka 'Flat
> Head')
> > > Engine, the whole being on 'skids' and seeming a mite
> > > 'heavy'
> > > to me so far as getting it brought home and all...
> > >
> > > Made 1961 and needed a little 'tlc', but the price was
> > > 'right' I felt, being some $500.00...it was clean and
> had no
> > > visable damage. 'Parts' did not appear to be a problem
> to my
> > > cursory researches, so
> > > far as rings and mainbearings and so on went, should it
> have
> > > needed them, and maybe it didn't...or, one could set up
> > > about any used Engine of
> > > suitable Horse Power to run the Electricity making
> > > part...reconfigure the outfit for that...if one wanted.
> > >
> > > Or jack up the 'Car' and run a hefty 'Belt' from a rear
> > > wheel...and use the thing as-needed...
> > >
> > > It did not look like it would be shy from making
> 'plenty' of
> > > Amps, or 'watts' or...
> > >
> > > Plenty of spunk, anyway...
> > >
> > > So...once I am moved from here and have more room...I'll
> > > do it then...fine me one and bring 'er home and use it
> > > happily too.
> > >
> > > Run my 'lights' and little 'fridge from 'Batteries', and
> > > fire 'er up as needed for other matters or to recharge
> the
> > > Battery banks...
> > >
> > > The hell with these infernal 'power companies'...I'd
> rather
> > > 'pay' more to spite the bastards than continue to be a
> sap.
> > >
> > > Or even...find a Gas line as is some ways before the
> 'meter'
> > > and
> > > when they are doing their 'maintenance' , (or, with some
> > > precipitateing interventions as may inspire them TO 'do'
> > > some 'maintenance' ) and they have
> > > matters thence
> > > in the 'off' mode, as they must do, just run a little
> > > stub of a 'line' with a nice Ball Valve on it, and
> return to
> > > it at one's liesure...whilst 'Gardening' or whatever,
> and be
> > > a
> > > happy boy or girl...
> > >
> > > Keeps the 'Oil' clean, and so on too
> > > that-a-way...round up some old 'Propane' Carburetor
> > > set-up...and...let 'er "purr"...
> > >
> > > And why not?
> > >
> > > Like they would not ( in fact, do not) 'do' the same?
> > >
> > > Ha!
> > >
> > > ...if 'enron' is good enough for mr bush and his golf
> > > buddies, who am I to argue?
> > >
> > > Are we not obliged to their guidence by example in these
> > > (and other)
> > > matters?
> > >
> > > Phil
> > > el vee
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Carol Olavarri"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:45 PM
> > > Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> > >
> > >
> > > > HI John,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks very much. This was really informative. I have
> been
> > > against the
> > > > generator idea ( secretly think my husband just wants
> a
> > > bigger gen than he
> > > > has now) and do not think with the amount of firing I
> > > shall do- maybe once a
> > > > month that it shall be prohibitive. They are flexible
> with
> > > fires here-
> > > > people still burn trash in barrels though I don't. The
> > > tradewinds keep the
> > > > air super clean but I figure that pollution has to be
> > > going somewhere so
> > > > just want to not add any for any other people.
> > > >
> > > > I shall print out all advise I get and go from there.
> The
> > > cost to ship over
> > > > is gonna kill me but getting a used one here on the
> Island
> > > is like finding
> > > > gold. Wood expensive unless we use the trees around
> that
> > > are like balsa
> > > > which burn up in 2 secs. I intend to ask my brother
> about
> > > the home made gas
> > > > kiln though as might be feasible. I am interested in
> > > functional so that
> > > > makes me require more also.
> > > >
> > > > Again thanks much. I envy you Alaska- well someday I
> shall
> > > see it
> > > >
> > > > Have a great one and thanks for your time,
> > > > Carol
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "John Rodgers"
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:13 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Carol, I understand about the price of energy to
> run
> > > kilns being
> > > > > expensive. I lived in Alaska for a long time, and as
> > > with Hiwaii, the
> > > > > further out in the bush one went, the more expensive
> > > everything got.
> > > > >
> > > > > As to energy for the kiln, you really need to look
> at
> > > the various
> > > > > options and consider the long and short of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Electricity: I'm sure it is locally available,
> everyone
> > > has it to one
> > > > > degree or another, and it is readily, though
> expensively
> > > available to
> > > > > run a kiln. No muss, no fuss or at least minimally
> so in
> > > getting an
> > > > > electric kiln hooked up and ready to go.Requires you
> to
> > > buy a kiln on
> > > > > the mainland, have it shipped, all relatively
> > > expensive - Kiln plus
> > > > > shipping, plus hook up.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gas: I don't know about natural or propane gas
> there,
> > > but expensive I
> > > > > would expect as compared to electricity. But would
> burn
> > > clean, minimum
> > > > > fuss. If you were inovative, I would bet you could
> build
> > > a small gas
> > > > > kiln for less than it would cost you to import an
> > > electric kiln. Then
> > > > > you would only need to be concerned about gas costs.
> You
> > > would not need
> > > > > to be concerned about electrical outages disrupting
> a
> > > firing - unless
> > > > > you have used electricity some way in the operation
> of
> > > the gas kiln. Of
> > > > > course local ordinances may have a negative impact.
> But
> > > I would
> > > > > certainly look into the real cost of gas vs
> electricity.
> > > > >
> > > > > Home Owner Generator Electricity - A generator
> capable
> > > of production of
> > > > > power to supply 12500 Watts of power - 240 volts at
> > > 50-60 amps for 12
> > > > > hours is going to be one expensive puppy to
> purchase.
> > > Then there is the
> > > > > cost of maintenance on it. Then there is the cost of
> the
> > > gas to run it
> > > > > and that to will be a very expensive issue in
> Hiwaii.
> > > If you get a
> > > > > diesel fuel generator, the purchase cost will go up
> > > again but hourly
> > > > > operating cost will be lower. . In Alaska many
> people
> > > living in remote
> > > > > locations used one-lungers as they were called - one
> > > cylinder diesel
> > > > > generators -the Witte Generator was a popular brand.
> > > Pricey though but
> > > > > more efficient over all, and very dependable, than
> gas
> > > because the same
> > > > > fuel could be used to heat your house, and cook
> with,
> > > and heat your hot
> > > > > water. Less of a fire hazard than gas. Easier to
> > > transport because of
> > > > > the reduced fire hazard.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wood: Local woods might be available if you check
> > > around, so a wood fire
> > > > > kiln might be an option, although I expect there
> useable
> > > wood would be
> > > > > very scarce.. Then there may be environmental
> concerns
> > > as well as code
> > > > > limitations.
> > > > >
> > > > > Coal: Prol'ly out of the question
> > > > >
> > > > > But I would certainly look into the real cost of gas
> vs
> > > electricity.
> > > > > Unless you are in a location where some other fuel
> is
> > > convienently and
> > > > > inexpensively available electricity is probably
> going to
> > > be the cheapest
> > > > > energy available to you, regardless. In Alaska, in
> > > certain areas along
> > > > > the coast, there is coal sticking up out of the
> ground
> > > and sand. It's
> > > > > low grade, but it burns, and anyone with the will
> can go
> > > to the beaches
> > > > > ansimply load theirs truck with it, come home and
> burn
> > > it in their
> > > > > stove, kiln or what have you. That is about as cheap
> as
> > > it gets. But for
> > > > > most of us any where in the country, even Hiwaii,
> and
> > > even as expensive
> > > > > as it is there, electricity is going to be the
> cheapest
> > > energy going.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck on your quest to get up and running on
> firing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > John Rodgers
> > > > > Birmingham, AL
> > > > >
> > > > > > Carol Olavarri wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>Hi,
> > > > > >>I will soon be ordering a Kress kiln and am very
> new
> > > to this art. We
> > > > live in
> > > > > >>Hawaii and and the cost of electricity is very
> high.
> > > Is it possible to
> > > > run
> > > > > >>it off of say a 13000 KW generator? My husband
> seems
> > > to think it would
> > > > > >>work. Any help on this subject would be greatly
> > > appreciated. I cannot go
> > > > gas
> > > > > >>as way beyond my means so am stuck with electric.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________
> > > ________________
> > > > __
> > > > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > > > >
> > > > > You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your
> > > subscription
> > > > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > > > >
> > > > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached
> > > at
> > > > melpots@pclink.com.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________
> > > __________________
> > > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > > >
> > > > You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your
> > > subscription
> > > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > > >
> > > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached
> > > at melpots@pclink.com.
> > >
> > >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> ________________
> > __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
> at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> __________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
> at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 7 may 03
Hi Carol,
Yes indeed, how wonderful it would be to generate
Electricity with the Wind...
And that it is very elegant to do so, or can be.
Actually, that was allways
a big dream of mine - and I would still love to do it.
One could certainly make a Windmill as would run a generator
sufficient to power a Kiln, provided there were something of
a steady breeze to rely on, and it would be such fun to do
so too...if maybe a little expensive to build, and needing a
'keeper' to attend or maintain somewhat.
Also, one can generate Electricity harnessing the motion of
Waves or Tides, but not so nicely in some ways compared
to doing so from the sundry currents of steadily flowing Air
or
Water.
It would be an interesting task to get Electricity from
motion of the
Ocean's
waves, and it would be an interesting, challengeing project
to make a
device as
would generate enough for a Kiln...but as for
household Lighting, as is mediated with Batteries, it would
not be near so huge a chore I don't think.
I had sat down once ( jeeeeesh, like in 1982?) and figured
out
the details of running
my ( then mostly 'envisioned') Shop from a Windmill, or as
well from the
Batteries it would
keep charged, as well as running Machines through shafts and
belts as are powered directly from the Windmill's
transmitted rotations...or to sell 'power' to neighbors, if
I had a truely 'steady' breeze as my companion.
One could also emply a Hydraulic method to transmit the
Wind's force to run one's Machines or what, rather than
shafts and
belts, which is a good option.
One may make large wet Cell Batteries fairly easily, which
is kinder to the pocket book than the cost and freight of
buying them. It is helpfulif one likes the smell of Hydrogen
and Sulfuric Acid, and it is best not to light Cigarettes
when the big-boys are in a 'charging-mode'...
As I could build a very decent windmill to suit my
intentions, (or if I had the money for materials, and the
time and place TO do it,) the entire thing would be a great
and integrated project to do,
and
very nearly all of it 'made' rather than 'bought'...
One may make a dynamo for generateing the 'D-C', and one may
make a
generator as well for one's 'A-C' to be run either from the
Windmill itself, or from a 'D-C'
Motor as run from the Batteries iif the Breeze is on a
respite...just as one please, and
to look as one want them to look, too.
Most modern Windmills as I had seen through the years,
( that is, aside from the very scarce now of 'Farm' pump
types
and I am not thinking of those for these kinds of 'work') do
not
seem to have the torque
to do much, or, are no longer made forthrightly of Wood, or
of Wood and Steel, in such ways as where a Man could readily
make one. They look like they are designed by computers,
and made by aeronautical firms.
The older designs as enjoyed promenance in their
day, are something an intelligent Mechanic can
build, and even if reduced in
their scale,
may put our plenty of torque for one's needs.
I think the one I had decided to make was calculated to
produce about 32 Horsepower in a six mile an hour wind,
and
pretty much silently, too...which would still give me plenty
in a four or five mile an hour of breeze, or, simply, more
power
than I'd ever need maybe anyway...
As it's design enjoyed a self regulateing variable pitch to
the blades, irregularities in the Wind's velocity were
somewhat smoothed out as per the setting one elects for the
R.P.M. regulation as effects the pitch, and also, it moved
to follow the Wind's
direction, as did most of the old ones.
In the event of high Winds, one is best to unleash the
riggings and slide the Oil-Cloths from the Blades...and wait
matters out. These kind did not rotate swiftly...and ( I do
not remember now, but) likely are happy at something like,
or not far from, 20 or 30 to maybe 45 R.P.M. I think...but
not much more.
The four or six Blades being as some thirty feet in
length, describe then a circle of some sixty odd
feet...not something meant to rotate very quickly, nor
needing to.
This - the mechanical method for Machines to be run from
some Wind or Water source - had been quite popular at one
time
and you may recall that America had near as many Windmills
as Holland for all
sorts of tasks.
Many Shops and small Factories and Mills also were run from
Water
Wheels, or from Water driven Turbines set fairly deeply in
Rivers or
Streams ( which
had advantage in
colder climes when the surface had frozen to some deapth).
One could buy such 'Turbines' mail order through much of the
second half of the Nineteenth Cent...
I have no idea of what may be available now in these
matters, but it is a very good method if one does not mind
there being not much to see, as compared to a Windmill...
As most of my Machines were 'flat-belt' or remain so, and
shall even more so over time, and
others may be readily converted to that way-of-faith, it
would not be hard to have all my Stationary Machines set up
to be run from the belts and shafts driven of a Windmill's
turns. Whilst the smaller Electric Tools could certainly
be run from a small 'A-C' or some of them on a 'D-C' out-put
got as above mentioned.
Be fun...and very satisfying I think...
Hmmmmmmm...it is hard to think of anything I'd rather do,
now that I muse on it!
The best of all 'worlds' in it's way...
Phil
el vee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol Olavarri"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> Hi,
>
> Boy you and my husband would get along great. He would
love to run
> everything off generators and batteries. I agree with the
whole concept but
> guess I am spoiled so try to eliminate the generator in my
fields and use in
> his. HA- mechanically challenged I am and even the thought
of using a kiln
> is daunting enough at this point without adding in running
the generator. I
> would love to be able to bypass the electric company as we
pay 27 cents. Now
> give me windpower. That I would love but the Native
Hawaiians just do not
> like windmills dotting the countryside which I can agree
can be unsightly.
> Thanks for your time and your input. I do so appreciate
all the help and
> advise I have been given.
>
> Much Aloha,
> Carol
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
>
>
> > I like the idea, that is, if one aspire to run an
Electric
> > Kiln...or if one aspire to run anything...with
Electricity.
> >
> > When I move, 'finally', I shall have a nice, (big,
handsome,
> > robust, and I hope, 'Old') Generator for
> > myself.
> >
> > I almost got one awhile back as ( I forget the output,
but )
> > seemed 'sufficient'...powered by a two-hundred eighty
odd
> > cubic
> > inch Six-Cylinder "Herculese" (Side-Valve - aka 'Flat
Head')
> > Engine, the whole being on 'skids' and seeming a mite
> > 'heavy'
> > to me so far as getting it brought home and all...
> >
> > Made 1961 and needed a little 'tlc', but the price was
> > 'right' I felt, being some $500.00...it was clean and
had no
> > visable damage. 'Parts' did not appear to be a problem
to my
> > cursory researches, so
> > far as rings and mainbearings and so on went, should it
have
> > needed them, and maybe it didn't...or, one could set up
> > about any used Engine of
> > suitable Horse Power to run the Electricity making
> > part...reconfigure the outfit for that...if one wanted.
> >
> > Or jack up the 'Car' and run a hefty 'Belt' from a rear
> > wheel...and use the thing as-needed...
> >
> > It did not look like it would be shy from making
'plenty' of
> > Amps, or 'watts' or...
> >
> > Plenty of spunk, anyway...
> >
> > So...once I am moved from here and have more room...I'll
> > do it then...fine me one and bring 'er home and use it
> > happily too.
> >
> > Run my 'lights' and little 'fridge from 'Batteries', and
> > fire 'er up as needed for other matters or to recharge
the
> > Battery banks...
> >
> > The hell with these infernal 'power companies'...I'd
rather
> > 'pay' more to spite the bastards than continue to be a
sap.
> >
> > Or even...find a Gas line as is some ways before the
'meter'
> > and
> > when they are doing their 'maintenance' , (or, with some
> > precipitateing interventions as may inspire them TO 'do'
> > some 'maintenance' ) and they have
> > matters thence
> > in the 'off' mode, as they must do, just run a little
> > stub of a 'line' with a nice Ball Valve on it, and
return to
> > it at one's liesure...whilst 'Gardening' or whatever,
and be
> > a
> > happy boy or girl...
> >
> > Keeps the 'Oil' clean, and so on too
> > that-a-way...round up some old 'Propane' Carburetor
> > set-up...and...let 'er "purr"...
> >
> > And why not?
> >
> > Like they would not ( in fact, do not) 'do' the same?
> >
> > Ha!
> >
> > ...if 'enron' is good enough for mr bush and his golf
> > buddies, who am I to argue?
> >
> > Are we not obliged to their guidence by example in these
> > (and other)
> > matters?
> >
> > Phil
> > el vee
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Carol Olavarri"
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> >
> >
> > > HI John,
> > >
> > > Thanks very much. This was really informative. I have
been
> > against the
> > > generator idea ( secretly think my husband just wants
a
> > bigger gen than he
> > > has now) and do not think with the amount of firing I
> > shall do- maybe once a
> > > month that it shall be prohibitive. They are flexible
with
> > fires here-
> > > people still burn trash in barrels though I don't. The
> > tradewinds keep the
> > > air super clean but I figure that pollution has to be
> > going somewhere so
> > > just want to not add any for any other people.
> > >
> > > I shall print out all advise I get and go from there.
The
> > cost to ship over
> > > is gonna kill me but getting a used one here on the
Island
> > is like finding
> > > gold. Wood expensive unless we use the trees around
that
> > are like balsa
> > > which burn up in 2 secs. I intend to ask my brother
about
> > the home made gas
> > > kiln though as might be feasible. I am interested in
> > functional so that
> > > makes me require more also.
> > >
> > > Again thanks much. I envy you Alaska- well someday I
shall
> > see it
> > >
> > > Have a great one and thanks for your time,
> > > Carol
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "John Rodgers"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 10:13 AM
> > > Subject: Re: running kiln off generator
> > >
> > >
> > > > Carol, I understand about the price of energy to
run
> > kilns being
> > > > expensive. I lived in Alaska for a long time, and as
> > with Hiwaii, the
> > > > further out in the bush one went, the more expensive
> > everything got.
> > > >
> > > > As to energy for the kiln, you really need to look
at
> > the various
> > > > options and consider the long and short of it.
> > > >
> > > > Electricity: I'm sure it is locally available,
everyone
> > has it to one
> > > > degree or another, and it is readily, though
expensively
> > available to
> > > > run a kiln. No muss, no fuss or at least minimally
so in
> > getting an
> > > > electric kiln hooked up and ready to go.Requires you
to
> > buy a kiln on
> > > > the mainland, have it shipped, all relatively
> > expensive - Kiln plus
> > > > shipping, plus hook up.
> > > >
> > > > Gas: I don't know about natural or propane gas
there,
> > but expensive I
> > > > would expect as compared to electricity. But would
burn
> > clean, minimum
> > > > fuss. If you were inovative, I would bet you could
build
> > a small gas
> > > > kiln for less than it would cost you to import an
> > electric kiln. Then
> > > > you would only need to be concerned about gas costs.
You
> > would not need
> > > > to be concerned about electrical outages disrupting
a
> > firing - unless
> > > > you have used electricity some way in the operation
of
> > the gas kiln. Of
> > > > course local ordinances may have a negative impact.
But
> > I would
> > > > certainly look into the real cost of gas vs
electricity.
> > > >
> > > > Home Owner Generator Electricity - A generator
capable
> > of production of
> > > > power to supply 12500 Watts of power - 240 volts at
> > 50-60 amps for 12
> > > > hours is going to be one expensive puppy to
purchase.
> > Then there is the
> > > > cost of maintenance on it. Then there is the cost of
the
> > gas to run it
> > > > and that to will be a very expensive issue in
Hiwaii.
> > If you get a
> > > > diesel fuel generator, the purchase cost will go up
> > again but hourly
> > > > operating cost will be lower. . In Alaska many
people
> > living in remote
> > > > locations used one-lungers as they were called - one
> > cylinder diesel
> > > > generators -the Witte Generator was a popular brand.
> > Pricey though but
> > > > more efficient over all, and very dependable, than
gas
> > because the same
> > > > fuel could be used to heat your house, and cook
with,
> > and heat your hot
> > > > water. Less of a fire hazard than gas. Easier to
> > transport because of
> > > > the reduced fire hazard.
> > > >
> > > > Wood: Local woods might be available if you check
> > around, so a wood fire
> > > > kiln might be an option, although I expect there
useable
> > wood would be
> > > > very scarce.. Then there may be environmental
concerns
> > as well as code
> > > > limitations.
> > > >
> > > > Coal: Prol'ly out of the question
> > > >
> > > > But I would certainly look into the real cost of gas
vs
> > electricity.
> > > > Unless you are in a location where some other fuel
is
> > convienently and
> > > > inexpensively available electricity is probably
going to
> > be the cheapest
> > > > energy available to you, regardless. In Alaska, in
> > certain areas along
> > > > the coast, there is coal sticking up out of the
ground
> > and sand. It's
> > > > low grade, but it burns, and anyone with the will
can go
> > to the beaches
> > > > ansimply load theirs truck with it, come home and
burn
> > it in their
> > > > stove, kiln or what have you. That is about as cheap
as
> > it gets. But for
> > > > most of us any where in the country, even Hiwaii,
and
> > even as expensive
> > > > as it is there, electricity is going to be the
cheapest
> > energy going.
> > > >
> > > > Good luck on your quest to get up and running on
firing.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > John Rodgers
> > > > Birmingham, AL
> > > >
> > > > > Carol Olavarri wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>Hi,
> > > > >>I will soon be ordering a Kress kiln and am very
new
> > to this art. We
> > > live in
> > > > >>Hawaii and and the cost of electricity is very
high.
> > Is it possible to
> > > run
> > > > >>it off of say a 13000 KW generator? My husband
seems
> > to think it would
> > > > >>work. Any help on this subject would be greatly
> > appreciated. I cannot go
> > > gas
> > > > >>as way beyond my means so am stuck with electric.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
____________________________________________________________
> > ________________
> > > __
> > > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > > >
> > > > You may look at the archives for the list or change
your
> > subscription
> > > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > > >
> > > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
reached
> > at
> > > melpots@pclink.com.
> > >
> > >
> >
____________________________________________________________
> > __________________
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change
your
> > subscription
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> > >
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> > at melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
>
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> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
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> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
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