Vince Pitelka on mon 5 may 03
> The idea is to basically build a box on top of a powerful shop vac with
> the shop vac connected to the back of the booth.The power of the shop
> vac would pull the glaze away from the front of the booth, and the
> glaze would collect in the shop vac for recycling.
Darlene -
That's an interesting idea, but tor a shop vac to do what it normally does,
it needs to create a sgnificant vacuum across a 4" opening in the end of the
hose. I am skeptical that this will be enough suction to create the
necessary air movement across the wide opening at the front of a spray
booth. There is a simple test. Once you have the shop vac hooked up and
running, put on your dust mask, take a handful of powdered ball clay and
dribble it back and forth and up and down across the front opening of the
spray booth. ALL of the airborne powdered clay should be drawn into the
spray booth towards the exhaust port. If this doesn't happen, the
spraybooth is worthless. Try it and see if it works.
Also, if this does work, be sure to vent the shop vac directly outside.
Otherwise the vac exhaust will be expelling the very finest silica particles
into the room, and even if you are wearing a dustmask at the time, those
particles will become airborne very easily later on, and will end up in your
lungs. Spraybooths that recycle air back into the room are a very bad idea.
Good luck -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Rod Wuetherick on mon 5 may 03
Darlene,
I don't think a shop VAC would have near enough pull for a spray booth. You
are talking at most a 4"-6" fan. The fan I have in my spray booth is 24"
sorry I forget the speed. The CFM is extremely high. I think if you are
using a HVLP sprayer the amount of spray to reclaim in negligible.
If anyone is interested sometime in the future I can post the plans for my
spray booth. I'm an avid aquatic gardener and what this has to do with a
spray booth soon follows. In some of my fish tanks I have over 30 species of
underwater plants. This hobby requires lots of pumps and other water
movement gizmos. So to get to the point quickly I even made a water curtain
for my spray booth with some old pumps and home made spray bars and it works
like a charm.
Cheers,
Rod Wuetherick
RedIron Studios
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of E.G.
> Yarnetsky
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 9:12 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: ventless spraybooth
>
>
> Hello all!
>
> I have a friend helping us get our new space up and running, and he has
> an idea for a simple self contained spraybooth (we already have a
> compressor, ect.) which would recycle glaze material. Before I go any
> further, this spray booth will be set up in the glaze mixing room which
> will be vented outdoors, and yes I always wear a mask.
> The idea is to basically build a box on top of a powerful shop vac with
> the shop vac connected to the back of the booth.The power of the shop
> vac would pull the glaze away from the front of the booth, and the
> glaze would collect in the shop vac for recycling. His idea is to save
> all material, and not pollute by venting the material out a window.
> Before we go any further with this idea, I wanted to know if anyone has
> made a booth along these lines, and what everyone's opinions are
> safetywise, ect.! I did go through the archives, so if I have missed
> something, be free to point me to it!!
>
> Thank you for all info!
>
> Darlene Yarnetsky
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> ____________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
E.G. Yarnetsky on mon 5 may 03
Hello all!
I have a friend helping us get our new space up and running, and he has
an idea for a simple self contained spraybooth (we already have a
compressor, ect.) which would recycle glaze material. Before I go any
further, this spray booth will be set up in the glaze mixing room which
will be vented outdoors, and yes I always wear a mask.
The idea is to basically build a box on top of a powerful shop vac with
the shop vac connected to the back of the booth.The power of the shop
vac would pull the glaze away from the front of the booth, and the
glaze would collect in the shop vac for recycling. His idea is to save
all material, and not pollute by venting the material out a window.
Before we go any further with this idea, I wanted to know if anyone has
made a booth along these lines, and what everyone's opinions are
safetywise, ect.! I did go through the archives, so if I have missed
something, be free to point me to it!!
Thank you for all info!
Darlene Yarnetsky
Marvpots@AOL.COM on tue 6 may 03
Just thought I'd mention that AMACO makes a Ceramic Spray booth that does not
require venting.
There is a filter (easily replaceable) at the back of the booth and a strong
exhaust fan on top of the booth; I've used mine for many years now and can
tell from the extreme cleanliness of the ceiling over the spray booth that
none of the glaze vapors are coming through the filter.
As for the filters, ordinary heating element or air conditioning filters,
available at any good hardware store, work well and are inexpensive.
The booth itself is just heavy guage sheet metal and so, I would imagine that
anyone with the willingness to do the work could construct one fairly easily.
Amaco offers a stand which I found unnecessary because I fashioned my own.
Hope this gives you more clues!.
All the best.
Marvin Fllowerman
marvpots@asol.com
mudslingers@ATT.NET on tue 6 may 03
darlene,
you wrote:
>The idea is to basically build a box on top of a powerful shop vac with
>the shop vac connected to the back of the booth.The power of the shop
>vac would pull the glaze away from the front of the booth, and the
>glaze would collect in the shop vac for recycling.
i could be mistaken, but i don't believe a shop vac motor is a sealed unit.
therefore you CANNOT draw combustible vapors/materials like glazes through the
housing. it could catch fire! we recently had our shop vac apart and you could
see that it was constantly arcing -- pretty dangerous. one spark is all it
would take.
i'm sure vince and others can comment more knowledgably on this this.
lauren
--
Lauren Bellero
Mudslingers Pottery
Red Bank, NJ 07701
http://mudslingers.home.att.net
732.747.4853
Vince Pitelka on wed 7 may 03
> As for the filters, ordinary heating element or air conditioning filters,
> available at any good hardware store, work well and are inexpensive.
> The booth itself is just heavy guage sheet metal and so, I would imagine
that
> anyone with the willingness to do the work could construct one fairly
easily.
> Amaco offers a stand which I found unnecessary because I fashioned my
own.
Marvin -
I do not have definitive test information to prove this, but it is a pretty
sure bet that your ventless spraybooth is sending fine silica particles into
the room atmosphere, and thus into your lungs, especially if you are using
ordinary household furnace filters. A HEPA (high efficiency particle
arrestor) filter would stop the fine silica particles, but they are
expensive, and in a spraybooth they tend to clog pretty quickly.
I am going to stick to my guns here. Ventless spray booths in a ceramic
studio are a very bad idea, regardless of the manufacturer's claims, because
there is no practical, affordable system which will remove the fine silica
particles. It does no harm to the atmosphere to exhaust them outside. So
vent your spraybooth outside, use a household furnace filter to stop most of
the overspray, keeping it out of the environment, and then exhaust the rest
(including the fine silica particles) outdoors.
Don't ever take chances on the health and safety of your lungs -
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Vince Pitelka on wed 7 may 03
> What about a wet vac? the sort that suck the air thru water? that way
> those wee particles you can't see but cause silicosis would get trapped in
> the water. don't know if there is enough suction in a vacum cleaner to do
> the job tho. just a thought
Steph -
Maybe if you had a bank of 25 wet vacs sucking out of one spraybooth. I
don't mean to be flippant. I am afraid that this is what it would take to
get enough suction in the spraybooth. If so, then that doesn't seem a
cost-effective solution.
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about here. It is so easy to vent a
spraybooth to the outside, unless your studio is in the middle of a
building. Otherwise, the only real challenge is in far northern climates,
where the "make-up air" can cool down the room pretty quick. Whenever you
are using a spraybooth which exhausts to the outdoors, you need to supply
make-up air from outdoors in equivalent measure. Otherwise, if the doors
and windows seal tightly, the spraybooth will not work.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Culling on wed 7 may 03
What about a wet vac? the sort that suck the air thru water? that way
those wee particles you can't see but cause silicosis would get trapped in
the water. don't know if there is enough suction in a vacum cleaner to do
the job tho. just a thought
steph
----- Original Message -----
From: "E.G. Yarnetsky"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 12:11 AM
Subject: ventless spraybooth
> Hello all!
>
> I have a friend helping us get our new space up and running, and he has
> an idea for a simple self contained spraybooth (we already have a
> compressor, ect.) which would recycle glaze material. Before I go any
> further, this spray booth will be set up in the glaze mixing room which
> will be vented outdoors, and yes I always wear a mask.
> The idea is to basically build a box on top of a powerful shop vac with
> the shop vac connected to the back of the booth.The power of the shop
> vac would pull the glaze away from the front of the booth, and the
> glaze would collect in the shop vac for recycling. His idea is to save
> all material, and not pollute by venting the material out a window.
> Before we go any further with this idea, I wanted to know if anyone has
> made a booth along these lines, and what everyone's opinions are
> safetywise, ect.! I did go through the archives, so if I have missed
> something, be free to point me to it!!
>
> Thank you for all info!
>
> Darlene Yarnetsky
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Vince Pitelka on wed 7 may 03
> hmmmm...i know i read it somewhere. i had done some research before
blindly
> plunging into making a spray booth...i thought it was specific to glaze
> materials and spray booths... maybe it was one of the clay catalogues?, an
> article in one of the mags? one of my books? but now i have to figure out
> where, because that was the understanding mine was built with. we were
careful
> to buy a fan with a housed motor for that reason.
The reason to use a totally enclosed motor in a spray booth exhaust is to
keep the field and armature windings and the bearings from getting
contaminated with ceramic materials. None of the normal materials used in
clay or glaze formulation in the ceramic studio would pose an
ignition/explosion hazard.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
mudslingers@ATT.NET on wed 7 may 03
> What are you making your glazes out of that would be combustible??
>
> Jts
hmmmm...i know i read it somewhere. i had done some research before blindly
plunging into making a spray booth...i thought it was specific to glaze
materials and spray booths... maybe it was one of the clay catalogues?, an
article in one of the mags? one of my books? but now i have to figure out
where, because that was the understanding mine was built with. we were careful
to buy a fan with a housed motor for that reason.
after reading the clayart digest this morning, no one else has corroborated
that info. so now i'm thinking maybe what i read was a general warning about
chemicals that have vapors that ignite, but that no glaze chemicals fit that
description?
> -----Original Message-----
> darlene,
>
> you wrote:
> >The idea is to basically build a box on top of a powerful shop vac with
> >the shop vac connected to the back of the booth.
>
> i could be mistaken, but i don't believe a shop vac motor is a sealed unit.
> therefore you CANNOT draw combustible vapors/materials like glazes through
> the housing. it could catch fire! ....
--
Lauren Bellero
Mudslingers Pottery
Red Bank, NJ 07701
http://mudslingers.home.att.net
732.747.4853
Donald Burroughs on wed 7 may 03
Hi Rod
Count me in On your spray booth plans. I am interested to see how
your "water system" works.
Thanks Donald Burroughs
On the Web @ http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~donaldo
Steve Mills on wed 7 may 03
This *Wetback* system is the only one allowed in the majority of
educational systems in the UK. *Suck & Chuck* is definitely out, and the
only other systems in common use are (or should be) very heavily
filtered. As rod says you need a huge CFM to make a spray booth
effective.
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Rod Wuetherick writes
>Darlene,
>
>I don't think a shop VAC would have near enough pull for a spray booth. Y=
>ou
>are talking at most a 4"-6" fan. The fan I have in my spray booth is 24"
>sorry I forget the speed. The CFM is extremely high. I think if you are
>using a HVLP sprayer the amount of spray to reclaim in negligible.
>
>If anyone is interested sometime in the future I can post the plans for m=
>y
>spray booth. I'm an avid aquatic gardener and what this has to do with a
>spray booth soon follows. In some of my fish tanks I have over 30 species=
> of
>underwater plants. This hobby requires lots of pumps and other water
>movement gizmos. So to get to the point quickly I even made a water curta=
>in
>for my spray booth with some old pumps and home made spray bars and it wo=
>rks
>like a charm.
>
>Cheers,
>Rod Wuetherick
>RedIron Studios
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of E.G.
>> Yarnetsky
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 9:12 AM
>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: ventless spraybooth
>>
>>
>> Hello all!
>>
>> I have a friend helping us get our new space up and running, and he has
>> an idea for a simple self contained spraybooth (we already have a
>> compressor, ect.) which would recycle glaze material. Before I go any
>> further, this spray booth will be set up in the glaze mixing room which
>> will be vented outdoors, and yes I always wear a mask.
>> The idea is to basically build a box on top of a powerful shop vac with
>> the shop vac connected to the back of the booth.The power of the shop
>> vac would pull the glaze away from the front of the booth, and the
>> glaze would collect in the shop vac for recycling. His idea is to save
>> all material, and not pollute by venting the material out a window.
>> Before we go any further with this idea, I wanted to know if anyone has
>> made a booth along these lines, and what everyone's opinions are
>> safetywise, ect.! I did go through the archives, so if I have missed
>> something, be free to point me to it!!
>>
>> Thank you for all info!
>>
>> Darlene Yarnetsky
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________
>> ____________
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Kenneth D. Westfall on wed 7 may 03
You simply do not have enough volume for it to work and they to
my knowledge none of them really suck threw the water. The dirt coming
into the tank is directed against the water in the tank not threw it.
At 01:13 PM 05/07/2003 +0800, you wrote:
>What about a wet vac? the sort that suck the air thru water? that way
>those wee particles you can't see but cause silicosis would get trapped in
>the water. don't know if there is enough suction in a vacum cleaner to do
>the job tho. just a thought
>steph
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "E.G. Yarnetsky"
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 12:11 AM
>Subject: ventless spraybooth
>
>
> > Hello all!
> >
> > I have a friend helping us get our new space up and running, and he has
> > an idea for a simple self contained spraybooth (we already have a
> > compressor, ect.) which would recycle glaze material. Before I go any
> > further, this spray booth will be set up in the glaze mixing room which
> > will be vented outdoors, and yes I always wear a mask.
> > The idea is to basically build a box on top of a powerful shop vac with
> > the shop vac connected to the back of the booth.The power of the shop
> > vac would pull the glaze away from the front of the booth, and the
> > glaze would collect in the shop vac for recycling. His idea is to save
> > all material, and not pollute by venting the material out a window.
> > Before we go any further with this idea, I wanted to know if anyone has
> > made a booth along these lines, and what everyone's opinions are
> > safetywise, ect.! I did go through the archives, so if I have missed
> > something, be free to point me to it!!
> >
> > Thank you for all info!
> >
> > Darlene Yarnetsky
> >
> >
>____________________________________________________________________________
>__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Kenneth D. Westfall
Pine Hill Pottery
R.D. #2 Box 6AA
Harrisville, WV 26362
pinehill@ruralnet.org
http://www.pinehillpottery.com
John Hesselberth on thu 8 may 03
On Wednesday, May 7, 2003, at 09:50 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> I am going to stick to my guns here. Ventless spray booths in a
> ceramic
> studio are a very bad idea, regardless of the manufacturer's claims,
> because
> there is no practical, affordable system which will remove the fine
> silica
> particles. It does no harm to the atmosphere to exhaust them outside.
> So
> vent your spraybooth outside, use a household furnace filter to stop
> most of
> the overspray, keeping it out of the environment, and then exhaust
> the rest
> (including the fine silica particles) outdoors.
>
> Don't ever take chances on the health and safety of your lungs
I know I am repeating a bit, but Vince is right on here. Spray guns are
the absolute best way to put silica dust into the air and no device
short of a very expensive, high capacity HEPA filter or spray condenser
will take then out. And by spray condenser I do not mean a home-made
cobbled-up one. I mean one designed by a professional engineer who
knows what she is doing.
Please spray outside or exhaust your properly designed spray booth
outside. Furnace filters will keep some of the bulk spray out of the
environment, but they will do absolutely nothing to protect your lungs.
Remember that fine silica dust can stay suspended in the air for hours
and even days.
Regards,
John
http://www.frogpondpottery.com
http://www.masteringglazes.com
Marvpots@AOL.COM on fri 9 may 03
hi vince:
I'm sure you'r correct; I wear a good face mask/filter when using the spray
booth; I'll see about an externall exhaust.
Thanks for your comments.
All the best.
Marvin
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 16 may 03
Seems so to me too Vince...
One could maybe sequester a 'Swamp Cooler' in some cube or
other as only accepts for intake, the air of the spraybooth
as one wished to be evacuated...
And make a poor-mans, low-tech 'scrubber'...change out the
Water now and then.
I'd thought of doing that for myself should I need one, as
well as wishing to learn about the 'electrostatic' ways of
faith...
Phil
el vee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: ventless spraybooth
> > a few weeks ago I visited a supplier. They used a
spraybooth with a vent.
> > But they mounted a pipe on it and lead the particles
into a barrel filled
> with
> > water. The workshop was a big high room. They didn't
open any window or
> the
> > door.
>
> Waltraud -
> I cannot imagine how this could work well at all. The
barrel of water would
> simply provide far too much back pressure to work
adequately for a safe,
> efficient spray booth. For good spray booth, you need to
be moving many CFM
> (cubic feet per minute) of air, and it would be impossible
to direct that
> into a water barrel without splattering water all over the
place. And the
> bubbles of air rising to the surface would still contain
the fine particles
> of silica and other materials. I would stay far away from
such a
> spraybooth.
>
> A true water curtain spray booth filter works great,
because all the air
> comes in such close proximity to the water, and the dust
particles are all
> attracted to and absorbed by the water. But that is a
different matter
> entirely.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>
>
____________________________________________________________
__________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached
at melpots@pclink.com.
wakoestler on fri 16 may 03
Vince,
a few weeks ago I visited a supplier. They used a spraybooth with a vent.
But they mounted a pipe on it and lead the particles into a barrel filled with
water. The workshop was a big high room. They didn't open any window or the
door.
How do you think about this method?
Waltraud
Vince Pitelka schrieb:
> > What about a wet vac? the sort that suck the air thru water? that way
> > those wee particles you can't see but cause silicosis would get trapped in
> > the water. don't know if there is enough suction in a vacum cleaner to do
> > the job tho. just a thought
>
> Steph -
> Maybe if you had a bank of 25 wet vacs sucking out of one spraybooth. I
> don't mean to be flippant. I am afraid that this is what it would take to
> get enough suction in the spraybooth. If so, then that doesn't seem a
> cost-effective solution.
>
> I'm not sure what all the fuss is about here. It is so easy to vent a
> spraybooth to the outside, unless your studio is in the middle of a
> building. Otherwise, the only real challenge is in far northern climates,
> where the "make-up air" can cool down the room pretty quick. Whenever you
> are using a spraybooth which exhausts to the outdoors, you need to supply
> make-up air from outdoors in equivalent measure. Otherwise, if the doors
> and windows seal tightly, the spraybooth will not work.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Dave Finkelnburg on fri 16 may 03
Waltraud,
It is impossible to say whether this system works well without
professional air sampling. Also, you don't make clear whether the air
enters above or below the water level in the barrel. However, I can make
these general comments.
If the air comes in above the water, the momentum of the dust particles
is the only force available to get the dust captured by the water. This
works fine for coarse dust, but poorly for the finest (most harmful) dust.
If the air comes in below the water level, then unless the air
distribution system in the water barrel is designed to create very fine
bubbles, it is quite possible for dust to escape back into the room when the
bubbles burst at the surface of the liquid in the barrel.
Also, any water particles carried into the air from the bursting bubbles
can dry and put fine dust into the air. If dust builds up in the water--it
becomes a muddy water barrel instead of one filled with clean water--then
this problem mounts.
I have worked just enough on the design of industrial dust "scrubbers"
that use water to catch the dust to understand this is a complex subject.
The best system would be one with some sort of well-designed filter, either
wet or dry, that then exhausts the cleaned air outdoors. That's because
when the filter fails, and it will some day, the system isn't putting
harmful dust right out into the studio air for the artist to breathe.
Does anyone on the list have or know of someone with real expertise in
the design of spray booth filtration? I would like to work on a studio
spray booth design. It would be designed to meet workplace health standards
and anti-pollution standards. It would have to release so little dust that
artists would not feel they were polluting the air to use it. The design
would be readily available to studio artists. Please contact me if you
could help. Thanks!
Dave Finkelnburg in Idaho
----- Original Message -----
From: "wakoestler"
Subject: Re: ventless spraybooth
> Vince,
> a few weeks ago I visited a supplier. They used a spraybooth with a vent.
> But they mounted a pipe on it and lead the particles into a barrel filled
with
> water. The workshop was a big high room. They didn't open any window or
the
> door.
> How do you think about this method?
>
> Waltraud
Longtin, Jeff on fri 16 may 03
Waltraud,
A wet vac, as available through most hardware stores, does not actually pull
material through the water, and thereby cleanse the air, rather they pull
particulate into the vacume container and the stuff that doesn't recirculate
out, in theory, drops into the water. Using a "wet vac" to remove glaze
contaminated air is, as Vince mentions, a really unhealthy practice.
If the container in the described situation is sealed than maybe it can
contain/trap unhealthy particulate but unlikely. When using toxic material
it is always recommened to vent to the outside.
Years ago I was spraying my cover glaze onto my work. I moved into a
building that required I pull a permit if I wanted to install a vent.
Installing a fan to vent hazardous chemicals put me into a whole differant
realm. Meeting code to vent hazardous material meant installing a huge fan
that could turnover the air, the air in the entire room, five or ten times
an hour if I recall. Replacing that nice heated air in the middle of winter
meant I needed to replace that air with more heated air, which meant
installing an additional heater as well. Needless to say I chose not to
install a vent. Thankfully, today, I dip my pots.
Don't know about the rest of you but I have heard enough horror stories,
over the years, of folks who sprayed this nasty substance or that nasty
substance and wind up losing a lung, or having permanent nerve damage, to
know that some of this stuff is really, really nasty and not to be treated
lightly.
As Mel might say, do the homework, check the codes, and be safe.
take care
Jeff Longtin
-----Original Message-----
From: wakoestler [mailto:wakoestler@T-ONLINE.DE]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 1:05 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: ventless spraybooth
Vince,
a few weeks ago I visited a supplier. They used a spraybooth with a vent.
But they mounted a pipe on it and lead the particles into a barrel filled
with
water. The workshop was a big high room. They didn't open any window or the
door.
How do you think about this method?
Waltraud
Vince Pitelka schrieb:
> > What about a wet vac? the sort that suck the air thru water? that way
> > those wee particles you can't see but cause silicosis would get trapped
in
> > the water. don't know if there is enough suction in a vacum cleaner to
do
> > the job tho. just a thought
>
> Steph -
> Maybe if you had a bank of 25 wet vacs sucking out of one spraybooth. I
> don't mean to be flippant. I am afraid that this is what it would take to
> get enough suction in the spraybooth. If so, then that doesn't seem a
> cost-effective solution.
>
> I'm not sure what all the fuss is about here. It is so easy to vent a
> spraybooth to the outside, unless your studio is in the middle of a
> building. Otherwise, the only real challenge is in far northern climates,
> where the "make-up air" can cool down the room pretty quick. Whenever you
> are using a spraybooth which exhausts to the outdoors, you need to supply
> make-up air from outdoors in equivalent measure. Otherwise, if the doors
> and windows seal tightly, the spraybooth will not work.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>
>
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____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Klyf Brown on fri 16 may 03
Dave,
How about if material/air was delivered underwater, the container
closed except for an exhaust pipe. The exhaust is run through a gortex
filter like the ones you can buy for sears or home depot wet vacs that
are made for filtering cement dust. As most of the material would be
filtered in the water, the gortex filter would stay clean for a while.
Such a filter would require a fair amount of air power and 35 to 55
gal drum for the filter. Just a thought.
I just glaze outside under a large mulberry tree. I move the glazing
operation around to avoid a large build up in one area. Copper and
zinc are good for some fruit trees, I hope mulberry is one of them.
Klyf Brown in New Mexico usa
5/16/03 2:00:24 PM, Dave Finkelnburg
> If the air comes in above the water, the momentum of the dust
particles
>is the only force available to get the dust captured by the water.
This
>works fine for coarse dust, but poorly for the finest (most harmful)
dust.
> If the air comes in below the water level, then unless the air
>distribution system in the water barrel is designed to create very fine
>bubbles, it is quite possible for dust to escape back into the room
when the
>bubbles burst at the surface of the liquid in the barrel.
> Also, any water particles carried into the air from the bursting
bubbles
>can dry and put fine dust into the air. If dust builds up in the water--
it
>becomes a muddy water barrel instead of one filled with clean
water--then
>this problem mounts.
Vince Pitelka on fri 16 may 03
> a few weeks ago I visited a supplier. They used a spraybooth with a vent.
> But they mounted a pipe on it and lead the particles into a barrel filled
with
> water. The workshop was a big high room. They didn't open any window or
the
> door.
Waltraud -
I cannot imagine how this could work well at all. The barrel of water would
simply provide far too much back pressure to work adequately for a safe,
efficient spray booth. For good spray booth, you need to be moving many CFM
(cubic feet per minute) of air, and it would be impossible to direct that
into a water barrel without splattering water all over the place. And the
bubbles of air rising to the surface would still contain the fine particles
of silica and other materials. I would stay far away from such a
spraybooth.
A true water curtain spray booth filter works great, because all the air
comes in such close proximity to the water, and the dust particles are all
attracted to and absorbed by the water. But that is a different matter
entirely.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Martin Howard on sat 17 may 03
Jeff writes
I have played around with the idea of spraying. Bought some of the kit etc
but wanted to be completely green and not vent to outside but re-use the
material by taking it through water.
It really is a minefield of problems, so have settled, for the time being on
dipping everything.
But I still have a problem with leather hard handled ware. I'm throwing and
turning quite thin and the pots cannot stand the weight of slip they take
up, so a chunk falls out and lies on the shelf.
Conclusion:- slip AND glaze after first firing. Or just glaze and forget any
slip on such handled ware.
Martin Howard
Webbs Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
01371 850 423
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Updated 19th April 2003
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