Fraser Forsythe on fri 9 may 03
Hi.
I have been looking for a way to spray my glazes
responsibly. It hasn't been easy. The only viable
system is a booth with a water-based scrubber. That
is, a strong blower at one end, an aluminum filter and
a recycled flow of water running over the filter. This
system should do the trick. Of course a mask should be
worn and the exhaust should be vented outside. So far,
however, I only know this in theory. No one sells a
device like it, and I dont know how to build this
system myself.
Having said that, I dont think it is responsible to
just blow stuff outside. Yes silica does not pose an
environmental hazard, but what about all those other
goodies we routinely use? I wouldn't want to be
planting a vegetable garden anywhere close to that
studio.
This brings up a very sensitive topic often skirted
around by ceramists. How do we deal with the fact that
we all work with very nasty stuff? We're all good at
pointing a finger at Union Carbide but how do you wash
your glazing brushes and utensils? That water going
down the drain is toxic and full of metals. Would you
thoughtlessly dump a gallon of paint down the sink?
The paint probably has less environment impact than
cleaning up after glazing with a copper - manganese
recipe. I know, what a downer; and yes it's sobering
and maybe even disturbing. I dont have an answer.
There are many issues with glaze and the environment
because it's basically nasty stuff.
Lastly I want to also comment on the free silica point
made here. I hope people are not under the illusion
that if you dont spray you wont have suspended oxide
in the air. Every time you handle glaze in raw form or
applied to a pot, weigh up materials etc you are
sending millions of these particles in the air. Hepa
filters are great, but keep in mind that you are
filtering the air with your lungs right along with the
filter. Filter theory only works if you use a mask
while working and then leave the premises for 24 hours
while the filter works. Probably not a common
practice.
Sorry to be so glum about all this, but I feel it
needs to be said.
Fraser
--- John Hesselberth
wrote: > On Wednesday, May 7, 2003, at 09:50 PM,
Vince
> Pitelka wrote:
>
> > I am going to stick to my guns here. Ventless
> spray booths in a
> > ceramic
> > studio are a very bad idea, regardless of the
> manufacturer's claims,
> > because
> > there is no practical, affordable system which
> will remove the fine
> > silica
> > particles. It does no harm to the atmosphere to
> exhaust them outside.
> > So
> > vent your spraybooth outside, use a household
> furnace filter to stop
> > most of
> > the overspray, keeping it out of the environment,
> and then exhaust
> > the rest
> > (including the fine silica particles) outdoors.
> >
> > Don't ever take chances on the health and safety
> of your lungs
>
> I know I am repeating a bit, but Vince is right on
> here. Spray guns are
> the absolute best way to put silica dust into the
> air and no device
> short of a very expensive, high capacity HEPA filter
> or spray condenser
> will take then out. And by spray condenser I do not
> mean a home-made
> cobbled-up one. I mean one designed by a
> professional engineer who
> knows what she is doing.
>
> Please spray outside or exhaust your properly
> designed spray booth
> outside. Furnace filters will keep some of the bulk
> spray out of the
> environment, but they will do absolutely nothing to
> protect your lungs.
> Remember that fine silica dust can stay suspended
> in the air for hours
> and even days.
>
> Regards,
>
> John
>
> http://www.frogpondpottery.com
> http://www.masteringglazes.com
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
=====
Fraser Forsythe
fraser@glazeexchange.com
Guelph,Canada
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Jim Murphy on fri 9 may 03
on 5/9/03 8:00 AM, Fraser Forsythe at scribdibulus@YAHOO.CA wrote:
> The only viable
> system is a booth with a water-based scrubber. That
> is, a strong blower at one end, an aluminum filter and
> a recycled flow of water running over the filter. This
> system should do the trick. Of course a mask should be
> worn and the exhaust should be vented outside. So far,
> however, I only know this in theory. No one sells a
> device like it, and I dont know how to build this
> system myself.
There are commercially available water-wash spray booths. I'll bet they're
expensive though. See link below:
Perhaps a DIYer could make something similar using a "shower" stall, pump,
tubing, and fan.
Best regards,
Jim Murphy
Vince Pitelka on fri 9 may 03
> Lastly I want to also comment on the free silica point
> made here. I hope people are not under the illusion
> that if you dont spray you wont have suspended oxide
> in the air. Every time you handle glaze in raw form or
> applied to a pot, weigh up materials etc you are
> sending millions of these particles in the air. Hepa
> filters are great, but keep in mind that you are
> filtering the air with your lungs right along with the
> filter. Filter theory only works if you use a mask
> while working and then leave the premises for 24 hours
> while the filter works. Probably not a common
> practice.
Fraser -
It isn't a question of being glum in this situation. It is a question of
being alarmist to a ridiculous degree. Please give practical, ueseable
advice. Don't throw out a buffet of scare tactics that accomplish nothing.
Spray devices with inadequate exhaust systems inject an enormous amount of
dust into the air immediately. The instances you cite above are not in the
same league. It is up to all of us to be careful about any activity that
creates dust, and to take appropriate precautions to keep the dust out of
our lungs and out of our studios. So be specific. Don't issue a stream of
vague, baseless warnings. It accomplishes nothing positive, and in fact
could have a negative impact.
When giving warnings about toxic threats, be specific with substantiated
information, or ask questions to see if someone else has the proof.
Thanks and best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Fraser Forsythe on sat 10 may 03
Vince.
Let me first say that I value your thoughts and
comments.
I don’t believe what I'm saying is alarmist. I'm
trying to be honest about what I observe not only in
my practice but also in other studios. The reality is
that we are working with heavy metals, the same metals
that people get up in arms about when some agency
discovers there are 5 parts per million instead of 2
parts per million in a water source. When I wash glaze
utensils there are glaze materials going down the
drain. I don’t need a PHD or environmental studies to
make that claim.
I'm not a chemist so I cant say with authority that
making up glazes is dangerous. I will tell you that I
spoke at length with a professor of chemistry at a
recent dinner party about the materials I use in glaze
preparation. His eyes just about rolled back in his
head. He told me in all earnestness to be VERY careful
about using copper in any form because there was
mounting evidence that kidney failure was being linked
to copper exposure. I shot back that there are potters
who have been using high copper glazes for years and
they seem to be perfectly healthy. He told me that
everybody seems to know someone who is 90 and has
smoked all their life, but the fact remains that you
will (probably) die prematurely if you smoke.
I am not the only person on this list to breach the
subject. People with much more experience than I have
repeatedly warned others to be sure their glazes are
composed of oxides that form durable glass especially
if there are toxic oxides. If we are supposed to worry
about parts per million leaching out of glazes, how
much more should we worry about clouds of the stuff
when we are weighing up our glazes.
This is a sensitive subject because our craft depends
on using glaze materials. Personally I will continue
to use copper and other glaze materials because I'm
after certain effects. I also want to spray glazes
because, again, there are great effects I can only
seem to get this way. Given what I said above I must
sound like an idiot, but I'm not. I’m just confused
and stuck between two alternatives that are not
acceptable at this time. (i.e. giving up glazing my
pots, or ignoring the environmental issues).
Fraser.
ps. I'm not going to write anymore about this for
now...This is probably just upsetting to people, and
since I’m not offering a solution, what’s the point?
=====
Fraser Forsythe
fraser@glazeexchange.com
Guelph,Canada
______________________________________________________________________
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Fraser Forsythe on sat 10 may 03
Thanks Jim.
I've contacted the company to find out about price.
This is exactly the system I'm looking for...just dont
know if I can afford it.....!
Fraser
--- Jim Murphy wrote: > on 5/9/03
8:00 AM, Fraser Forsythe at
> scribdibulus@YAHOO.CA wrote:
>
> > The only viable
> > system is a booth with a water-based scrubber.
> That
> > is, a strong blower at one end, an aluminum filter
> and
> > a recycled flow of water running over the filter.
> This
> > system should do the trick. Of course a mask
> should be
> > worn and the exhaust should be vented outside. So
> far,
> > however, I only know this in theory. No one sells
> a
> > device like it, and I dont know how to build this
> > system myself.
>
> There are commercially available water-wash spray
> booths. I'll bet they're
> expensive though. See link below:
>
>
>
> Perhaps a DIYer could make something similar using a
> "shower" stall, pump,
> tubing, and fan.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim Murphy
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
=====
Fraser Forsythe
fraser@glazeexchange.com
Guelph,Canada
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Vince Pitelka on sat 10 may 03
> ps. I'm not going to write anymore about this for
> now...This is probably just upsetting to people, and
> since I'm not offering a solution, what's the point?
Fraser -
Precisely. But I certainly value your input, and that post had a lot a good
food for thought. I agree that copper is a material to be very concerned
about. In this post you bring up specific areas of concern, rather than the
vague alarmist generalities of the previous post. It is always constructive
to bring up specifics for discussion.
Anyone who creates "clouds of dust" when they are mixing glazes is a being
extremely foolish. As mentioned in previous posts, even if they wear a dust
mask while mixing, the dust settles on everything in the room, and any
subsequent air movement raises it back into the air. But it is possible to
mix glazes, pouring powdered materials gently into water, so that almost no
dust is created. That is very simple, and should be a matter of common
sense. Such mixing should still be done in a spray booth or with some other
efficient exhaust fan. As a last resort, it can be done outside, but we all
need to be responsible about keeping glaze waste and residue out of the
environment.
No one needs to give up glazing pots in order to stay healthy and protect
the environment. It just needs to be done with care and common sense.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
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