Des & Jan Howard on mon 12 may 03
Our spraybooth is made from a 950 mm x 950 mm x 1100 mm
heavy polythene water cartage tank from the local tip
mounted on bedframe angle iron legs.
The front was cut out, a false floor installed, a slot cut
in the top of the rear roof leading to one of Roger Graham's
evapourative air cooler squirrel cage blowers
on its side, screwed & silicone sealered to the top of the tank.
A removable frame holding a screen of 75 mm thick
dacron fibre faced with a commercial cardboard labyrinth
takes care of particle extraction, this is set 250 mm in from
the rear of the booth.
As the booth is free-standing in the workshop
I couldn't run it out through the wall. So, 2 m of accordion ducting
was sealed to the blower exhaust & run up to the roof ridge capping
& sealed into a turbine roof ventilator.
The blower speed controls were moved to the back of the
blower casing within easy arm's reach.
The low speed is good for removing acrid odours from melted wax.
The high speed (which can just about suck the wax from your ears)
is used for spraying & shelf/pot grinding.
Both Roger & I use the same sort of spray guns for our work,
250 ml, side entry gravity feed, running at 40 PSI.
There is minimum of overspray.
I wonder if the HVLP or vacuum cleaner type spray guns
would tend to overspray excessively & the high volume of air
cause most spray booths extraction rate to be challenged severely?
Des
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
LUE NSW 2850
Australia
Ph/Fax 02 6373 6419
http://www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
John Post on thu 15 oct 09
Bruce, the motor goes on the bottom of the spray booth, not the top.
With the motor on the bottom, the booth I had sat comfortably on the
table with no excess vibration at all, and there is no need to build a
wedge of any sorts. You have your spray booth upside down. I didn't
screw the booth to the table either, it just sat on top of it.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
On Oct 15, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Bruce Girrell wrote:
> Dolita Dohrman wrote:
>> Has anyone had experience with the Sugar Creek Spray Master Spray
>> Booths?
>
> We bought one, marketed under a different name, but the booth and
> even the table being sold with it are identical to ours as far as I
> can tell.
>
> First the good news:
> The 980 CFM blower moves enough air and that's possibly the most
> important aspect of a spray booth (check the CFM on your model - you
> may need to ask about the larger blower)
> The booth is sized to pass through normal doors.
>
> Now the bad news:
> Our booth came with no instructions whatsoever. It took me a while
> to figure out how it should be mounted properly. It's clear that it
> is designed to be inset to a frame. What that frame looks like is
> entirely up to you.
>
> With the motor mounted where it is, the unit is terribly top-heavy.
> The only means of securing the booth, other than building a custom
> frame around it, is a thin flange around the opening of the booth.
> The flange so thin and narrow that if one were to drill holes into
> it to screw the unit to its frame, it would crack from motor
> vibration in short order. What I believe is called for is long hold-
> down strips on each edge. The hold-downs can be made beefy enough to
> tolerate the necessary clamping forces while distributing the forces
> across the flange so that it doesn't crack.
>
> Speaking of inset mounting...
> These spray booths are sold along with tables presented as if the
> booth could be mounted on the table and moved about as required. The
> tables are nice tables, but they are NOT designed to work with those
> spray booths in any way, shape or form.
>
> As I noted above, the spray booth is very top heavy due to the
> mounting position of the blower. I have to believe that even the 400
> cfm unit is top heavy. The flange around the opening of the booth is
> thin and narrow, affording no real means of attachment. And the
> bottom of the booth is sloped. Even if you were willing to drill
> through the bottom of the booth, you wouldn't be able to attach it
> to one of these tables without fabricating some sort of wedge to
> hold the booth straight. Even if you got it straight, the booth is
> not rigid enough to withstand normal operational vibration without
> being fully supported.
>
> Selling these tables as suitable supports for the spray booths is
> simply outright misrepresentation in my book.
>
> Bruce Girrell
Des & Jan Howard on fri 16 oct 09
Larry
To prevent blowback I use a sliding polycarb screen on
the front of my spraybooth.
http://www.luepottery.hwy.com.au/spraybooth.htm
Des
Larry Kruzan wrote:
> For comparison, the Laguna Pro-X spray booth (their smaller unit uses a 1=
187
> CFM blower. I still get blowback from it and use a respirator for protect=
ion
> when I glaze. I am going to modify it with a waterfall system after I get
> finished with my next firing cycle.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
Bruce Girrell on fri 16 oct 09
John Post wrote:
> Bruce, the motor goes on the bottom of the spray booth, not the top....Yo=
=3D
u have your spray booth upside down.=3D20
Maybe it's because I bought the 980 CFM option, but there's no way that the=
=3D
motor is going on the bottom side. If you tried to set the unit motor side=
=3D
down on the table (the narrow direction), the unit would rest entirely on =
=3D
the blower housing. The fiberglass enclosure does not touch the table surfa=
=3D
ce at all. Even with the motor on the low side, the weight of the blower as=
=3D
sembly still makes the unit unstable. If you were to set the unit on the ta=
=3D
ble the other way, it's worse.
The manufacturer's label (which I now notice _is_ Sugar Creek) would also b=
=3D
e upside down. Not that I've never seen an upside down label before, but ev=
=3D
erything indicates that the motor needs to be on the top side, including th=
=3D
e picture shown in Dolita's original post: http://www.axner.com/axner/equip=
=3D
ment/sugarcreek-spray-booths.php
BTW, I don't see the 980 CFM option on the Axner page. Bailey offers the la=
=3D
rger blower. Axner may have it, but I don't see it on that page, though the=
=3D
picture looks almost identical to my unit.
These units are designed for inset mounting and nothing else. Even with the=
=3D
inset mounting, I would strongly suggest providing some bracing for the bl=
=3D
ower. Do not buy the table and expect the spraybooth to fit without substan=
=3D
tial effort on your part.
Bruce "some assembly required" Girrell=3D
Dolita Dohrman on fri 16 oct 09
It is interesting to note that the picture at Axner shows the
spraybooth with the squirrel cage blower already on it. Scroll down
and you will see the price listing which states that it is an extra
$340 for the upgrade blower. John had the SB-2 which is the larger
one and may have the motor mounted differently as it is nowhere in
sight in the pictures. I am looking at the SB-1 and agree with
Bruce, there is no way you could install it with the motor on the
bottom.
The prices are better if you go directly to Sugar Creek Industries,
which is in Indiana.
http://www.sugarcreekind.com/ceramic-equipment-spray-master-spray-
booths-c-256_257.html
I am getting lots of good feedback and am trying to track down
Vince's article on building your own. I gave all my old Claytimes
magazines to an art center!
I have looked at shower stalls and they are way to big for my studio,
even the smallest ones. I actually looked at cheap bathtubs, the
size is better. However, the Sugar Creek one really fits the bill
but I think, if I do go this route, I should get the squirrel cage
blower as it increases the flow from 400 cfm to 980 cfm. I was
thinking of cutting a hole in the bottom and attaching a hose that
would end in a catch pan. When I am finished glazing, I have a coil
hose which reaches everywhere in the studio. I can just spray it out
and it will drain into the catch pan.
Bruce makes a good point about stability and the weight of the
motor. I am trying to figure out a framework that would support it.
This could be my Christmas present if I am a really, really good
girl....
Dolita in Kentucky
On Oct 16, 2009, at 9:17 AM, Bruce Girrell wrote:
> John Post wrote:
>
>> Bruce, the motor goes on the bottom of the spray booth, not the
>> top....You have your spray booth upside down.
>
>
> Maybe it's because I bought the 980 CFM option, but there's no way
> that the motor is going on the bottom side. If you tried to set the
> unit motor side down on the table (the narrow direction), the unit
> would rest entirely on the blower housing. The fiberglass enclosure
> does not touch the table surface at all. Even with the motor on the
> low side, the weight of the blower assembly still makes the unit
> unstable. If you were to set the unit on the table the other way,
> it's worse.
>
> The manufacturer's label (which I now notice _is_ Sugar Creek)
> would also be upside down. Not that I've never seen an upside down
> label before, but everything indicates that the motor needs to be
> on the top side, including the picture shown in Dolita's original
> post: http://www.axner.com/axner/equipment/sugarcreek-spray-booths.php
> BTW, I don't see the 980 CFM option on the Axner page. Bailey
> offers the larger blower. Axner may have it, but I don't see it on
> that page, though the picture looks almost identical to my unit.
>
> These units are designed for inset mounting and nothing else. Even
> with the inset mounting, I would strongly suggest providing some
> bracing for the blower. Do not buy the table and expect the
> spraybooth to fit without substantial effort on your part.
>
> Bruce "some assembly required" Girrell
John Hesselberth on fri 16 oct 09
Just a couple words of caution for those considering building or using
a spray booth. OSHA requirements specify a design standard of 100 ft/
min face velocity with acceptable actual performance being in the
range of 75-125 ft/min. So that means a 2 ft x 2 ft opening would need
to be designed for 400 cfm of air.
But that air has to come from someplace. If your booth is in a fairly
tight house you may have to open a window on the other side of the
room. Just putting in a bigger blower may not do the job as squirrel
cage blowers are not good at pulling a vacuum. So in addition to
wearing a mask and designing your spray booth properly, we sure there
is a big enough opening to the outdoors near your booth that it can
actually perform like it should.
It's not just your lungs you want to protect while spraying--a mask
can do that. You really don't want glaze powder all over your studio
or in the lungs of your studio cat.
Regards,
John
Jess McKenzie on fri 16 oct 09
I agree with John. We've seen houses so tight that turning on
the clothes dryer pulled smoke and ashes from the fireplace.
One other consideration: I have consulted on at least two
laboratory buildings where the building air intake sucked in
the effluent from lab fume hoods. In one case, a large
building, air currents on the roof carried the fumes more than
300 ft into the air intake. There are ways to test your
design without risking exposure to toxic materials. If you
can afford it, seek local professional advice.
You'll probably do fine, but it's good to know things like
that.
Good luck...~jess
John Hesselberth wrote:
Just a couple words of caution for those considering building
or using
a spray booth. OSHA requirements specify a design standard of
100 ft/
min face velocity with acceptable actual performance being in
the
range of 75-125 ft/min. So that means a 2 ft x 2 ft opening
would need
to be designed for 400 cfm of air.
But that air has to come from someplace. If your booth is in a
fairly
tight house you may have to open a window on the other side of
the
room. Just putting in a bigger blower may not do the job as
squirrel
cage blowers are not good at pulling a vacuum. So in addition
to
wearing a mask and designing your spray booth properly, we
sure there
is a big enough opening to the outdoors near your booth that
it can
actually perform like it should.
It's not just your lungs you want to protect while spraying--a
mask
can do that. You really don't want glaze powder all over your
studio
or in the lungs of your studio cat.
Regards,
John
Dolita Dohrman on fri 16 oct 09
John, Thank you for that info. That means that the spray booth I am
looking at has enough pull without the squirrel blower. The
dimensions are 27.75"H X 20" W X 17" D. Exhaust air delivery is 400
cfm. The unit from Sugar Creek is $350.
Dolita in Kentucky...singing Jingle Bells right about now...
On Oct 16, 2009, at 12:55 PM, John Hesselberth wrote:
> Just a couple words of caution for those considering building or using
> a spray booth. OSHA requirements specify a design standard of 100 ft/
> min face velocity with acceptable actual performance being in the
> range of 75-125 ft/min. So that means a 2 ft x 2 ft opening would need
> to be designed for 400 cfm of air.
>
> But that air has to come from someplace. If your booth is in a fairly
> tight house you may have to open a window on the other side of the
> room. Just putting in a bigger blower may not do the job as squirrel
> cage blowers are not good at pulling a vacuum. So in addition to
> wearing a mask and designing your spray booth properly, we sure there
> is a big enough opening to the outdoors near your booth that it can
> actually perform like it should.
>
> It's not just your lungs you want to protect while spraying--a mask
> can do that. You really don't want glaze powder all over your studio
> or in the lungs of your studio cat.
>
> Regards,
>
> John
Larry Kruzan on fri 16 oct 09
Just a thought Dolita - often "just big enough" to meet "minimum"
requirements does not mean it is really big enough. Although 100 CFM/sq.
foot is the minimum, if you are spraying glaze at rate greater than this
rating that glaze must go somewhere, back into your face, studio, home, and
anywhere else connected to your studio.
Most standard spray guns use much more than 12 CFM of air to work properly,
if you are using a siphon type they are even more inefficient using more
air. The more air being sprayed into the booth by the gun, the more air
required to pull the bad stuff out of booth. If you are using good HVLP
spray guns, 100cmf per foot might be enough, but, these other guns push mor=
e
air than this with the required makeup air. It is the makeup air, or the
lack of it, that is the problem.
A spray booth that is properly sized will (theoretically) pull every
particle coming out of your spray gun into it with none escaping the booth.
It does this by pulling a lot more air into it than the spray gun generates=
.
If the blower is big enough, even a poor spray gun generating lots of
overspray can be contained. If the blower is undersized the overspray (the
part of the glaze that does not end up on the pot) must go somewhere. Think
of a glass filling with water from the tap - when the glass is full the
water spills out into the sink.
We all know just how bad airborne silica is for us as potters - if you are
spraying you are pumping silica (and lots of other things) into the booth -
just how much blowback do you really want to risk? How about family, pets,
etc.?
Just my opinion.
Best Wishes
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Dolita Dohrman
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:02 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Spraybooths
John, Thank you for that info. That means that the spray booth I am
looking at has enough pull without the squirrel blower. The
dimensions are 27.75"H X 20" W X 17" D. Exhaust air delivery is 400
cfm. The unit from Sugar Creek is $350.
Dolita in Kentucky...singing Jingle Bells right about now...
On Oct 16, 2009, at 12:55 PM, John Hesselberth wrote:
> Just a couple words of caution for those considering building or using
> a spray booth. OSHA requirements specify a design standard of 100 ft/
> min face velocity with acceptable actual performance being in the
> range of 75-125 ft/min. So that means a 2 ft x 2 ft opening would need
> to be designed for 400 cfm of air.
>
> But that air has to come from someplace. If your booth is in a fairly
> tight house you may have to open a window on the other side of the
> room. Just putting in a bigger blower may not do the job as squirrel
> cage blowers are not good at pulling a vacuum. So in addition to
> wearing a mask and designing your spray booth properly, we sure there
> is a big enough opening to the outdoors near your booth that it can
> actually perform like it should.
>
> It's not just your lungs you want to protect while spraying--a mask
> can do that. You really don't want glaze powder all over your studio
> or in the lungs of your studio cat.
>
> Regards,
>
> John
Richard Aerni on fri 16 oct 09
Hi everyone,=3D20
I haven't really read many of the messages, but see people are =3D
discussing spraybooths. I've got a photo spread of my home-made, cheap =3D
spraybooth on my website, under the "technical/aesthetic" section in the =
=3D
menu. There are some pictures and text which have been nicely arranged =3D
by clayarter Donald Burroughs. It's a simple design which has worked =3D
well for me for over 25 years now. And I spray everything. May not be =3D
for everyone, as it takes up a bit of space, and uses an old potter's =3D
wheel as a turntable.
Check it out.
Best,
Richard
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY =3D20
www.richardaerni.com
Vince Pitelka on fri 16 oct 09
A spraybooth that requires you to wear a mask or other safety gear is a poo=
r
spraybooth. The whole point of the spraybooth is to eliminate the dust and
the danger. The exhaust fan should draw enough CFM that there is always
plenty of air movement into the front of the booth. In terms of the amount
of opening in the front of the spraybooth, you can easily test whether it i=
s
appropriate. With the exhaust fan turned on, grab a handful of ball clay
and dribble a little at various locations across the front opening of the
booth, side to side and top to bottom. At any location the dust should
immediately be drawn into the booth and towards the fan. To make absolutely
sure, do the same test while you are spraying in order to see if the spray
current disrupts this dynamic. If the exhaust fan draws the dust in all
circumstances, then you are okay without a mask if you are standing outside
that opening.
The need for make-up air cannot be overstressed. As someone else said, if
no air is getting into the room, then no fumes or dust will be evacuated
from the room, no matter how powerful the exhaust fan.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
John Post on sat 17 oct 09
@Bruce - Sorry for telling you that you had your spray booth upside
down. I just looked at the picture of the one Dolita is thinking
about and there is no way that motor could go on the bottom. On the
SB-2 that I had, the motor fits on the bottom.
@Dolita. The SB-2 that I used had the squirrel cage motor. It really
sucked the air through it. I could feel the suction on the doors to
the studio if I didn't open a window to get replacement air moving
through. I would leave it on for a while after spraying or glaze
mixing to help move any fine particles out of the studio air.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
>
Des & Jan Howard on sat 17 oct 09
John
As you say, no air into the room , no air out of the
room. But, if you install a backblast shield the
spraybooth acts like a fume cupboard, no mask is necessary.
Des
John Hesselberth wrote:
> But that air has to come from someplace. If your booth is in a fairly
> tight house you may have to open a window on the other side of the
> room. Just putting in a bigger blower may not do the job as squirrel
> cage blowers are not good at pulling a vacuum. So in addition to
> wearing a mask and designing your spray booth properly, we sure there
> is a big enough opening to the outdoors near your booth that it can
> actually perform like it should.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
-32.656072 149.840624
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