John Rodgers on thu 15 may 03
spam.goes.here wrote:
> I've still got my knackered old
>kiln which I'm about to drill a spyhole in to be going along with in the
>meantime ......
>
>What kind of knackered old kiln do you have. And how is it equipped. I too have a knackered old kiln and it gives me the best firings I've every had. So I am curious. I may have some suggestions for you if I know what you had and how it is equipped, configured, holes, switches, controls, etc, etc, etc.
>
Regards,
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
Lewis on thu 15 may 03
Well, thankyou. It's a Cromartie Kiln - almost definitely an H40. Would
not fire above what it said was about 1190degC, but I think it's badly
calibrated and overfires (indicates low). It's a top loader, the chamber is
only about 153/4" x 131/2" 45 Litre (1.6 cu.ft.). rated at 13A (UK domestic
socket limit) for 1260degC. It has only a controller fitted to regulate the
'power' from 0% to m100% plus a 'thermostat (for the want of a better word)
to set the temperature. To check the temperature one must rotate the dial
to(wards) zero and then gradually increase until one hears the relay trip or
the 'power on' light illuminates (about 10degC later). Its
granularity/precision is probably no more than 10degC and maybe 20.
I think it fires adequately quickly for bisque work (although indicates
inaccurately, which I can check with cones): I can get temperature gradients
of between 40degC/hr to 100degC/hr (say 70F/hr to 200F/hr) below 600degC at
power settings of 35% to 60%. Above 1000degC, say, the temperature gradient
is down to 40degC/hr (72F/hr) at 100%. I've reset the lid (there was a
very obvious orange bar around the walls of the garage about knee high). So
that might help some. I'll probably get some firebrick to plug up the
single vent hole in the side (which is abt 1/2" dia) especially if I enlarge
it to function as a spy hole. It has 6 elements - and I expect they're
what's knackered. Although I'm surprised, as the
sweet-old-lady-who'd-had-three-heart-attacks-since-Xmas from whom I bought
it only did glass work (but a lot of it, I guess).
My current thought is to enlarge the vent to become a spy hole, use cones
(or use them to understand the relationship between time and temperature)
and use it for bisque firing only. My second thought is to cut a hole in the
bottom and stick a Bunsen burner up it to play with reduction firings and
not worry about knackering the elements (or find out what the UK equivalent
of ITC is and experiment with that) as long as they can give me the
temperature I want (but I have not yet done the research to understand the
viable temperature range for reduction firings). My third thought is to
cannibalise it as a raku kiln or try some (vegetable) oil firing
arrangement. My fourth thought is to make sure the insurance policy is
up-to-date..
Other thoughts would be very welcome!
I have actually been to Birmingham, AL, and live a half-hour's drive from
Birmingham, WM, UK; isn't it a small world.
Lewis
PSS: As a complete aside: I've never seen any references to using an
electric kiln for reduction firing by the "simple expedient" (he says,
knowingly - hah!) of trickling carbon monoxide into the firing chamber at
the appropriate point from above: the CO will be cold and is anyway more
dense than 'air' and so would fall to the bottom, displacing the atmosphere
in the chamber out through the vent in the top. This would give a 'clean'
reducing atmosphere which - one would have thought - would be much less
likely to damage elements than a 'dirty' atmosphere from organic fuels or
even natural gas. Or have I simply travelled one stop beyond Dagenham?
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of John Rodgers
Sent: 15 May 2003 15:47
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Which electirc hobby/studio kiln maker to buy from (UK)?
spam.goes.here wrote:
> I've still got my knackered old
>kiln which I'm about to drill a spyhole in to be going along with in the
>meantime ......
>
>What kind of knackered old kiln do you have. And how is it equipped. I too
have a knackered old kiln and it gives me the best firings I've every had.
So I am curious. I may have some suggestions for you if I know what you had
and how it is equipped, configured, holes, switches, controls, etc, etc,
etc.
>
Regards,
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
Arnold Howard on thu 15 may 03
Anyone in UK looking for a kiln should visit
Hobby Ceramicraft
Rotherwick, Hook
Hampshire RG27 9BG
john@hobbyceramicraft.co.uk
441/189-3261 53
They will give you a good deal on kilns.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
www.paragonweb.com
From: spam.goes.here
> I've "narrowed" the field to 3 kilns. I'm a newbie, but I want a
kiln I
> can grow into rather than grow out of, and bearing in mind I'm
spending my
> severance pay - this might be my last shot! I've still got my
knackered old
> kiln which I'm about to drill a spyhole in to be going along with in
the
> meantime ......
>
> What opinions are there on Cromartie vs. Laser Kilns vs. Potclays
(I've
> excluded Potterycrafts, as they appear to be laser kilns anyway,
although I
> might be wrong).
>
> The kilns I'm looking at are:
> Laser Kilns T18 (176L) for £1924 inc vat, furn, & TC405 controller
> Potclays S65 (184L) for £1900 inc vat, furn & Firemaster4 controller
> Cromartie 135wh (135L) for £1835 inc vat, furn & SE9-6 controller
>
> Only the Cromartie and Laser apparently are natively built with
spyholes -
> Potclays might be able to add one (whether at extra cost I didn't ask)
so,
> since I leap to accept the advice that cones are a good thing, I'm
really
> left to choose between the Cromartie & the Laser.
>
> Bang for capital buck (£/L), it has to be the Laser - but I've no idea
about
> running costs, reliability, cost of repair/spares, "flexibility",
> power/efficiency (both are 9kW/40A)and any of the 'subtleties' of
using
> these guys - any advice would be very welcome.
>
> I shall have a bash at posting this to the clayart list too, but I
have no
> idea how to do that until I RTFM.
>
> TIA
>
> Lewis
Lewis on thu 15 may 03
Thanks - I've forwarded this to john@hobbyceramicraft.co.uk.
With such a glowing recommendation, I'll report back to the list on how
things go .........with john@hobbyceramicraft.co.uk.and hopefully others
will be able to benefit from your endorsement and my experience .....
Lewis
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Arnold Howard
Sent: 15 May 2003 20:06
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Which electirc hobby/studio kiln maker to buy from (UK)?
Anyone in UK looking for a kiln should visit
Hobby Ceramicraft
Rotherwick, Hook
Hampshire RG27 9BG
john@hobbyceramicraft.co.uk
441/189-3261 53
They will give you a good deal on kilns.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
www.paragonweb.com
From: spam.goes.here
> I've "narrowed" the field to 3 kilns. I'm a newbie, but I want a
kiln I
> can grow into rather than grow out of, and bearing in mind I'm
spending my
> severance pay - this might be my last shot! I've still got my
knackered old
> kiln which I'm about to drill a spyhole in to be going along with in
the
> meantime ......
>
> What opinions are there on Cromartie vs. Laser Kilns vs. Potclays
(I've
> excluded Potterycrafts, as they appear to be laser kilns anyway,
although I
> might be wrong).
>
> The kilns I'm looking at are:
> Laser Kilns T18 (176L) for £1924 inc vat, furn, & TC405 controller
> Potclays S65 (184L) for £1900 inc vat, furn & Firemaster4 controller
> Cromartie 135wh (135L) for £1835 inc vat, furn & SE9-6 controller
>
> Only the Cromartie and Laser apparently are natively built with
spyholes -
> Potclays might be able to add one (whether at extra cost I didn't ask)
so,
> since I leap to accept the advice that cones are a good thing, I'm
really
> left to choose between the Cromartie & the Laser.
>
> Bang for capital buck (£/L), it has to be the Laser - but I've no idea
about
> running costs, reliability, cost of repair/spares, "flexibility",
> power/efficiency (both are 9kW/40A)and any of the 'subtleties' of
using
> these guys - any advice would be very welcome.
>
> I shall have a bash at posting this to the clayart list too, but I
have no
> idea how to do that until I RTFM.
>
> TIA
>
> Lewis
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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spam.goes.here on fri 16 may 03
I've "narrowed" the field to 3 kilns. I'm a newbie, but I want a kiln I
can grow into rather than grow out of, and bearing in mind I'm spending my
severance pay - this might be my last shot! I've still got my knackered old
kiln which I'm about to drill a spyhole in to be going along with in the
meantime ......
What opinions are there on Cromartie vs. Laser Kilns vs. Potclays (I've
excluded Potterycrafts, as they appear to be laser kilns anyway, although I
might be wrong).
The kilns I'm looking at are:
Laser Kilns T18 (176L) for £1924 inc vat, furn, & TC405 controller
Potclays S65 (184L) for £1900 inc vat, furn & Firemaster4 controller
Cromartie 135wh (135L) for £1835 inc vat, furn & SE9-6 controller
Only the Cromartie and Laser apparently are natively built with spyholes -
Potclays might be able to add one (whether at extra cost I didn't ask) so,
since I leap to accept the advice that cones are a good thing, I'm really
left to choose between the Cromartie & the Laser.
Bang for capital buck (£/L), it has to be the Laser - but I've no idea about
running costs, reliability, cost of repair/spares, "flexibility",
power/efficiency (both are 9kW/40A)and any of the 'subtleties' of using
these guys - any advice would be very welcome.
I shall have a bash at posting this to the clayart list too, but I have no
idea how to do that until I RTFM.
TIA
Lewis
Ivor on fri 16 may 03
Hi Lewis
>Lewis wrote
I've "narrowed" the field to 3 kilns. I'm a newbie, but I want a kiln I
You did not leave a usable address on Clayart so I'm sending this
to the list.
The Firemaster 4 allows you to "daisychain" programmes together
and to fire down slowly from top temperature. With only 3 inches
of insulation in the S65, firedown is essential for most stoneware
glazes. They develop their full character during a slow cool. See
many notes from Ron and John on Clayart.
I prefer the S26 as it fills up quicker allowing me to test my glaze
changes and go again soon! It also has two peepholes.
Ivor
Ivor J Townshend
Macclesfield UK
Lewis on sat 17 may 03
Wow: nothing I've read (and many tens of squidlies have been spent on books
and tens of hours on the 'net) alerted me to the slow-cool-down benefits
with stoneware, so it's not something I'd even have been aware of the need
to look for, so thanks for the pointer, I'll certainly do an archive search
for those words.
I'm now looking at the possibility of a 2nd-hand Potclays EP56 which has
115mm (4.5in insulation) but no controller - only a regulator: I'll get a
controller fitted somehow. I'm hoping to use my knackered old kiln (old
Cromartie H40) for 'testing' and playing but the new kiln (new or 2nd hand)
for 'real work'.
With the S26 being some £400+theft cheaper, it's very very tempting to go
for the S26, especially as I'm still in the "I wonder what would happen if I
did that" stage and the saving would pay for a good batch of starter
chemicals, I imagine (and I'm just trying to work out what may opening
stocks might need to be).
I'm very grateful for the input, even if it has added to the complexity of
my decisions :) - but then, that's why I asked!!
Ta very muchly indeed
Lewis (Hinckley, Leics)
PS: I think you meant I left an invalid address on Usenet - the Clayart list
one is good. I've learned the peril of leaving valid addresses on Usenet: I
was still getting spam 4 years after I stopped!
-----Original Message-----
From: Ivor [mailto:ivor@ijtownshend.clara.co.uk]
Sent: 16 May 2003 19:23
To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
Cc: Lewis
Subject: Re:Which electirc hobby/studio kiln maker to buy from (UK)?
Hi Lewis
>Lewis wrote
I've "narrowed" the field to 3 kilns. I'm a newbie, but I want a kiln I
You did not leave a usable address on Clayart so I'm sending this
to the list.
The Firemaster 4 allows you to "daisychain" programmes together
and to fire down slowly from top temperature. With only 3 inches
of insulation in the S65, firedown is essential for most stoneware
glazes. They develop their full character during a slow cool. See
many notes from Ron and John on Clayart.
I prefer the S26 as it fills up quicker allowing me to test my glaze
changes and go again soon! It also has two peepholes.
Ivor
Ivor J Townshend
Macclesfield UK
Lewis on tue 20 may 03
Yes, indeed they should.
I received a very informative reply from 'John' (sent about an hour after I
contacted him) and the product range - Paragon, funnily enough :) - is very
interesting, and it seems to me, quite keenly priced. I particularly liked
the ability to programme to fire to a *cone* rather than a temperature (and
maybe time).
I'm torn now between the
affordable-but-just-a-bit-smaller-than-I-wanted-but-it'll-leave-me-enough-fo
r-a-slabroller-Studio1 and the
large-and-surely-very-impressive-but-really-at-the-very-top-of-my-price-rang
e-and-I'll-have-to-make-do-with-a-mangle-Studio2.
But I guess out of all the dilemmas I could have, that's not a bad one.
Thanks for the recommendation
Lewis
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Arnold Howard
Sent: 15 May 2003 20:06
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Which electirc hobby/studio kiln maker to buy from (UK)?
Anyone in UK looking for a kiln should visit
Hobby Ceramicraft
Rotherwick, Hook
Hampshire RG27 9BG
john@hobbyceramicraft.co.uk
441/189-3261 53
They will give you a good deal on kilns.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
www.paragonweb.com
From: spam.goes.here
> I've "narrowed" the field to 3 kilns. I'm a newbie, but I want a
kiln I
> can grow into rather than grow out of, and bearing in mind I'm
spending my
> severance pay - this might be my last shot! I've still got my
knackered old
> kiln which I'm about to drill a spyhole in to be going along with in
the
> meantime ......
>
> What opinions are there on Cromartie vs. Laser Kilns vs. Potclays
(I've
> excluded Potterycrafts, as they appear to be laser kilns anyway,
although I
> might be wrong).
>
> The kilns I'm looking at are:
> Laser Kilns T18 (176L) for £1924 inc vat, furn, & TC405 controller
> Potclays S65 (184L) for £1900 inc vat, furn & Firemaster4 controller
> Cromartie 135wh (135L) for £1835 inc vat, furn & SE9-6 controller
>
> Only the Cromartie and Laser apparently are natively built with
spyholes -
> Potclays might be able to add one (whether at extra cost I didn't ask)
so,
> since I leap to accept the advice that cones are a good thing, I'm
really
> left to choose between the Cromartie & the Laser.
>
> Bang for capital buck (£/L), it has to be the Laser - but I've no idea
about
> running costs, reliability, cost of repair/spares, "flexibility",
> power/efficiency (both are 9kW/40A)and any of the 'subtleties' of
using
> these guys - any advice would be very welcome.
>
> I shall have a bash at posting this to the clayart list too, but I
have no
> idea how to do that until I RTFM.
>
> TIA
>
> Lewis
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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