Fredrick Paget on fri 16 may 03
You don't say whether you are trying to get by with just one firing but I
suspect you are.
Usually the china paints are put on one coat at a time, thinly, and fired
before another coat. As many as 5 or 6 firings for a fancy piece.
Fred
>I found that the only way I could get the colors and effects I wanted
>was to put the overglaze on really thick. Like 4 or 5 coats thick. It's
>really hard to get the colors to stick to the glossy surface with any
>richness if I just do it like watercolors. ...... Will
>the fact that I am painting so thick be a problem? ....
>Lisa
>
From Fred Paget, Marin County, California, USA
lisa on fri 16 may 03
I'm about 20 hours into my first overglaze decorating experience, and
it occurs to me that I may be doing something risky, so please advise!
I found that the only way I could get the colors and effects I wanted
was to put the overglaze on really thick. Like 4 or 5 coats thick. It's
really hard to get the colors to stick to the glossy surface with any
richness if I just do it like watercolors. I understand that the way
these things work is that I put them in the kiln to cone 018, and the
overglazes will melt into the softened surface of the base glaze. Will
the fact that I am painting so thick be a problem? Should I hold at
cone 018 for a while to get everything good and bonded? If so, how long?
Thanks again
Lisa
mercy lang on fri 16 may 03
Lisa- You cannot put overglazes on thick. When you fire them you will notice that it will flake off. What you can do is light coat fire and then reapply and fire. Also the cone really depends on how hot your kiln fires. It can range anywhere from 17-20. You are going to have to test tile and see. All my pieces are lusters and I have one named Mercedes Treasure and if you llps, look all the lusters are deep color. The trick each color got four firings of luster. Hope this helps - Mercy
lisa wrote:I'm about 20 hours into my first overglaze decorating experience, and
it occurs to me that I may be doing something risky, so please advise!
I found that the only way I could get the colors and effects I wanted
was to put the overglaze on really thick. Like 4 or 5 coats thick. It's
really hard to get the colors to stick to the glossy surface with any
richness if I just do it like watercolors. I understand that the way
these things work is that I put them in the kiln to cone 018, and the
overglazes will melt into the softened surface of the base glaze. Will
the fact that I am painting so thick be a problem? Should I hold at
cone 018 for a while to get everything good and bonded? If so, how long?
Thanks again
Lisa
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Liz Gowen on fri 16 may 03
Lisa if they are indeed china paints These are usually built up in layers
firing in between. Some people do use them thicker to get richer color in
one firing. I have tried it a bit thicker like 2 coats but havn't tried 5. I
also fire some colors a bit hotter 014 and find they fuse nicely. Some
colors like the golds( pinks and purples) might burn out more at the higher
temps. I never have done a hold at top temp. Was always told just to fire
till the kiln setter dropped.( was taught by china painters) Most china
paints are lead based though some are not. I use a small test kiln to fire
a piece or 2 at a time rather than risk a big load of ware.( also don't wish
to contaminate my large kiln.) I'd try firing a piece you don't care about
with that thickness before doing a lot more.
Liz Gowen NJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "lisa"
Subject: china paints/overglazes
> I'm about 20 hours into my first overglaze decorating experience, and
> it occurs to me that I may be doing something risky, so please advise!
>
> I found that the only way I could get the colors and effects I wanted
> was to put the overglaze on really thick. Like 4 or 5 coats thick. It's
> really hard to get the colors to stick to the glossy surface with any
> richness if I just do it like watercolors. I understand that the way
> these things work is that I put them in the kiln to cone 018, and the
> overglazes will melt into the softened surface of the base glaze. Will
> the fact that I am painting so thick be a problem? Should I hold at
> cone 018 for a while to get everything good and bonded? If so, how long?
John Rodgers on sat 17 may 03
I don't know about other overglazes, and in the case of china paints can
only speak to their application on porcelain.
Many china paints, though not all, have a lead base. Not good to stay in
the room while firing them. Many china paints in recent times have had
the lead removed, but you still need to identify those that have lead
vs. those that don't. You definitely don't want to use a lead base china
paint on a food service piece.
Unleaded china paints typically fire just a little hotter than the
leaded variety.
China paints are usually fired in layers and according to temperature
ranges with the coolest firing china paints firing last, such as pinks,
reds, and purples.
Typically with porcelain, it is fired to maturity before being painted.
Quite the opposite when using regular glazes to glaze pottery..
In slip cast porcelain, typically fired to cone 6, the china paints are
applied and fired from 020 to 012, with 020 being the coolest and 012
being the hottest.
China paints applied directly to the surface of mature porcelain will
appear with a matt finish once fired. If a glaze coat has been put on
the porcelain, and fired to maturity, then the china paint applied to
that glaze will have a shiney finish.
Gold applied directly to the porcelain will appear as matt or
"burnished" gold. If applied over a glazed surface it will have a shiney
finish.
TIP: If you wish a shiney gold finish, first apply and fire a single
coat of gloss yellow glaze. Once fired, apply the gold over the yellow
glaze, and fire again. You will get a glossy gold finish.
For thicker coats of color from china paints, apply several coats of
the china paints, and fire between each coat.
Do not practice "Holding" with the kiln.You will overfire if you do.
Hope this helps a bit.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
lisa wrote:
> I'm about 20 hours into my first overglaze decorating experience, and
> it occurs to me that I may be doing something risky, so please advise!
>
> I found that the only way I could get the colors and effects I wanted
> was to put the overglaze on really thick. Like 4 or 5 coats thick. It's
> really hard to get the colors to stick to the glossy surface with any
> richness if I just do it like watercolors. I understand that the way
> these things work is that I put them in the kiln to cone 018, and the
> overglazes will melt into the softened surface of the base glaze. Will
> the fact that I am painting so thick be a problem? Should I hold at
> cone 018 for a while to get everything good and bonded? If so, how long?
>
> Thanks again
> Lisa
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Snail Scott on sat 17 may 03
At 04:57 PM 5/16/03 -0400, you wrote:
>Should I hold at
>cone 018 for a while to get everything good and bonded?
As with any cone, ^018 does not represent a temperature.
It represents a time AND temperature. So, if you hit ^018
then keep it at the same temperature a while longer, you
will actually fire above ^018. Don't risk burning out the
sensitive colors. Just reapply and re-fire, to build up
layers.
-Snail
Janet Kaiser on sat 17 may 03
I have never used these on-glaze paints although I have a box full of my
Mother's here. From looking through her books on the subject there are
obviously different makes and ways of using them, but she "built-up" layer
upon layer with a firing to fix each one. She was going to classes given by
one of the last of the hand-painters who worked in The Potteries, so they
were using professional pigments and methods. Up to seven or eight firings
were sometimes done but the teacher was very cagey about temperatures and
other important information, so my Mother lost interest.
The final firing would be the gold or silver lustre if used, otherwise it
was the bright "pillar box" or "holly berry" red which was a much lower
temperature as far as I remember. These are the sort which are mixed with a
fine machine oil. They have to be kept *totally* dust free otherwise each
little speck is also fixed with the colour and spoils the smooth surface.
Not a hobby for anyone with pets! I remember her saying that it was no good
to use too much at a time because it would sometimes "bubble", especially
if fired a tad too high. Once that happened there was no way of saving the
piece. Too thick did not work for her, but as I say, there are different
types and the manufacturer should be able to give some guidelines.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
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