pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sat 17 may 03
Hi Janet!
This is terrible!
Is it possible to surmise that a modicum of 'sense' would
have benifited them?
That one may wish to filter one's Oil ( at least as an
initial step IN a larger sequence of clearification...) so
as not to 'clog' the orifices of the Burners?
Or, to process it in some way as to remove clumps, crumbs,
sludge, or what?
And...that one may wish to elect Burners whose design
recommends them to the task?
Again...we may find endless examples in life of people doing
foolish, ill-concieved or poorly integrated things and
having predictably disappointing results come from it.
We err to suppose such to be the measure OF the 'thing',
when it is the measure of their inattention or accidae or
indifference or ineptitude or contempt which is what is
actually going on.
No?
Yes?
I say..."yes"...
They demonstrated nothing other than their contempt for the
task, and it's appreciation.
All that 'carbon' was not a 'clue' to them?
...sheesh!
Phil
el vee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janet Kaiser"
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 6:37 PM
Subject: ye ancient lore and anecdote on firing with waste
oil
Des, I just have to relate what I experienced some 30 years
ago when
experimenting with burning waste motor oil. Please note this
is anecdotal
and not current experience or practice and my memory can
play tricks!
It was the early-to-mid 1970s and there had been rumours and
pretty woolly
"reports" on how a Mad Professor at some southern college
was working on
using waste motor oil to fire their school kilns. We were
all agog -
especially those who were going to be "out there" one day,
earning a living
as potters. Waste oil has to be cheap compared to other
fuels... Readily
available... Ideal for we poor students... Great idea!
Although our department was way conservative, we pestered so
much that the
Prof eventually lost his cool and somehow we ended up with a
group
assignment to try it out ourselves but under the supervision
of Eric, our
technician (the one who would not allow us to fire the
conventional kilns).
As I recall, an article appeared in either Ceramic Review or
Pottery
Quarterly at just the right moment and off we went... After
the initial
building of a middling sized kiln -- I'd guess about 8-10 cu
ft -- I
quickly lost interest as "the boys" well and truly took
over. The outcome
after several weeks of them tinkering first with drip
burners and then with
high-pressure air vapourisers, was a kiln which did
eventually heat up to
around 900-1000 °C HOWEVER you never saw so much dirty,
filthy smoke in
all your life, the stench was pretty unbearable and it was
really noisy in
that confined space. They were reduced to using calor gas to
start it off
and there never appeared to be a "clean burn" phase like in
the wood kiln
which was more sensibly built out of town. The whole
"experimental" kiln
site (outdoors but surrounded by buildings) was covered in a
thin film of
carbon and after a lot of experimentation without any great
results, the
whole project was dropped. I do not know what came first...
The college
authorities going mad about the "damage" to surrounding
buildings (they had
to be steam cleaned) and stopping the whole thing or the
lack of interest
as a result of various difficulties no one seemed able to
solve.
If I remember rightly, it was the oil supply which kept
failing that caused
the most grief on the technical side... It was impossible to
keep it
burning evenly. Presumably all the grunge in the oil bunging
up the feed.
Anyhow, we were told that it was a bit of a waste of time
anyway, because
the calorific value of waste oil is so diminished through
use, that the Btu
would be something like a quarter of what ordinary heating
oil would
provide. So no wonder it never made it higher than 900-1000
°C even
though real oil-fired kilns were supposed to be more suited
to high-firing.
In those gung-ho days, there was no mention of heavy metals
and the likes,
but even so there were health concerns too. Not least that
fine carbon and
the high lead content of motor oil in those days.
And funnily enough I was talking to Richard Cheshire, a
local potter, not
too long ago who was apparently at the very college where
the "mad
professor" (cannot remember the name, but could find out if
you want) had
been working on the waste oil kilns that had "inspired" us
way back then.
He also said that although it was an interesting exercise,
no one took them
seriously for very long because they really were extremely
dirty. Other
environmental concerns have dawned on us since the 70s too,
which is
probably why no one would consider using these sorts of
"dirty" fuels today
for fear of being closed down by Health & Safety executives,
even if the
technology had improved. I am sure quite a few would love to
be able to
re-cycle waste oil as the spiraling cost of fuel is making
everyone very
conscious of their overheads, but I suspect most would soon
opt out again.
Life is just too short for some things.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser - wandering down memory lane, when I should be
preparing for
the change of exhibition Monday/Tuesday...
************************************************************
**********
TRUTH is too precious to tell every fool who asks for
it...
****** This post was sent to you today by Janet Kaiser
*******
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
************************************************************
**********
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Paul Herman on sun 18 may 03
Greetings All,
Actually, used motor oil produces 160,000 BTU per gallon, which is more
than diesel (139,000), and way more than propane (93,500). Heavier fuels
produce more heat.
Drainoil will burn without smoke if the burners are properly designed
and working well. At temperatures below red heat it is problematic and
smokey. When I fired the kiln at Tuscarora we started out with propane,
switching to diesel at 500-600F then easing on the drainoil at red heat.
During periods of reduction, the kiln produces black smoke. Dennis had
trouble getting adequate reduction, so he would turn off the blower at
appropriate times. If you have neighbors close by, this may not be the
fuel for you. Where I live, two miles from my neighbor, I could probably
get away with it. Definitely not a town activity. The townies would have
you dangling from a lamp post in no time.
Of course, my wood fired kiln would enrage a neighbor in two seconds, if
there was one. Remember Jewett, New York.
As for the flashing, old rod bearings and piston rings vaporised and
deposited on your pots, well it's kinda pretty. Looks like woodfire.
Dennis always insisted that the dirtier the oil, the nicer the pots. For
a while he got used oil from the airport, but it was changed so often
that it was too "clean". Oil from a funky back alley garage in Elko was
deemed superior, because of more dirt for flashing.
I hope to build another kiln this summer, a 40-50 cu ft wood/salt kiln,
and will provide some burner ports for oil assist. I'd like to try the
step ladder burners like the ones in the recent CM article.
Burning oil in homemade burners is not an activity for the faint of
heart, or those prone to fear or hysteria. When the dreaded "lake of
burning oil" appears, oozing out of your burner port, turn down the oil
flow and throw dirt on the flames!
Happy Burning,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
423-725 Scott Road
Doyle, California 96109 US
potter@psln.com
----------
>From: Janet Kaiser
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: ye ancient lore and anecdote on firing with waste oil
>Date: Sat, May 17, 2003, 6:37 PM
>
> Des, I just have to relate what I experienced some 30 years ago when
> experimenting with burning waste motor oil. Please note this is anecdotal
> and not current experience or practice and my memory can play tricks!
>
> It was the early-to-mid 1970s and there had been rumours and pretty wooll=
y
> "reports" on how a Mad Professor at some southern college was working on
> using waste motor oil to fire their school kilns. We were all agog -
> especially those who were going to be "out there" one day, earning a livi=
ng
> as potters. Waste oil has to be cheap compared to other fuels... Readily
> available... Ideal for we poor students... Great idea!
>
> Although our department was way conservative, we pestered so much that th=
e
> Prof eventually lost his cool and somehow we ended up with a group
> assignment to try it out ourselves but under the supervision of Eric, our
> technician (the one who would not allow us to fire the conventional kilns=
).
> As I recall, an article appeared in either Ceramic Review or Pottery
> Quarterly at just the right moment and off we went... After the initial
> building of a middling sized kiln -- I'd guess about 8-10 cu ft -- I
> quickly lost interest as "the boys" well and truly took over. The outcome
> after several weeks of them tinkering first with drip burners and then wi=
th
> high-pressure air vapourisers, was a kiln which did eventually heat up to
> around 900-1000 =B0C HOWEVER you never saw so much dirty, filthy smoke in
> all your life, the stench was pretty unbearable and it was really noisy i=
n
> that confined space. They were reduced to using calor gas to start it off
> and there never appeared to be a "clean burn" phase like in the wood kiln
> which was more sensibly built out of town. The whole "experimental" kiln
> site (outdoors but surrounded by buildings) was covered in a thin film of
> carbon and after a lot of experimentation without any great results, the
> whole project was dropped. I do not know what came first... The college
> authorities going mad about the "damage" to surrounding buildings (they h=
ad
> to be steam cleaned) and stopping the whole thing or the lack of interest
> as a result of various difficulties no one seemed able to solve.
>
> If I remember rightly, it was the oil supply which kept failing that caus=
ed
> the most grief on the technical side... It was impossible to keep it
> burning evenly. Presumably all the grunge in the oil bunging up the feed.
> Anyhow, we were told that it was a bit of a waste of time anyway, because
> the calorific value of waste oil is so diminished through use, that the B=
tu
> would be something like a quarter of what ordinary heating oil would
> provide. So no wonder it never made it higher than 900-1000 =B0C even
> though real oil-fired kilns were supposed to be more suited to high-firin=
g.
> In those gung-ho days, there was no mention of heavy metals and the likes=
,
> but even so there were health concerns too. Not least that fine carbon an=
d
> the high lead content of motor oil in those days.
>
> And funnily enough I was talking to Richard Cheshire, a local potter, not
> too long ago who was apparently at the very college where the "mad
> professor" (cannot remember the name, but could find out if you want) had
> been working on the waste oil kilns that had "inspired" us way back then.
> He also said that although it was an interesting exercise, no one took th=
em
> seriously for very long because they really were extremely dirty. Other
> environmental concerns have dawned on us since the 70s too, which is
> probably why no one would consider using these sorts of "dirty" fuels tod=
ay
> for fear of being closed down by Health & Safety executives, even if the
> technology had improved. I am sure quite a few would love to be able to
> re-cycle waste oil as the spiraling cost of fuel is making everyone very
> conscious of their overheads, but I suspect most would soon opt out again=
.
> Life is just too short for some things.
>
> Sincerely
>
Janet Kaiser on sun 18 may 03
Des, I just have to relate what I experienced some 30 years ago when
experimenting with burning waste motor oil. Please note this is anecdotal
and not current experience or practice and my memory can play tricks!
It was the early-to-mid 1970s and there had been rumours and pretty woolly
"reports" on how a Mad Professor at some southern college was working on
using waste motor oil to fire their school kilns. We were all agog -
especially those who were going to be "out there" one day, earning a living
as potters. Waste oil has to be cheap compared to other fuels... Readily
available... Ideal for we poor students... Great idea!
Although our department was way conservative, we pestered so much that the
Prof eventually lost his cool and somehow we ended up with a group
assignment to try it out ourselves but under the supervision of Eric, our
technician (the one who would not allow us to fire the conventional kilns).
As I recall, an article appeared in either Ceramic Review or Pottery
Quarterly at just the right moment and off we went... After the initial
building of a middling sized kiln -- I'd guess about 8-10 cu ft -- I
quickly lost interest as "the boys" well and truly took over. The outcome
after several weeks of them tinkering first with drip burners and then with
high-pressure air vapourisers, was a kiln which did eventually heat up to
around 900-1000 =B0C HOWEVER you never saw so much dirty, filthy smoke in
all your life, the stench was pretty unbearable and it was really noisy in
that confined space. They were reduced to using calor gas to start it off
and there never appeared to be a "clean burn" phase like in the wood kiln
which was more sensibly built out of town. The whole "experimental" kiln
site (outdoors but surrounded by buildings) was covered in a thin film of
carbon and after a lot of experimentation without any great results, the
whole project was dropped. I do not know what came first... The college
authorities going mad about the "damage" to surrounding buildings (they had
to be steam cleaned) and stopping the whole thing or the lack of interest
as a result of various difficulties no one seemed able to solve.
If I remember rightly, it was the oil supply which kept failing that caused
the most grief on the technical side... It was impossible to keep it
burning evenly. Presumably all the grunge in the oil bunging up the feed.
Anyhow, we were told that it was a bit of a waste of time anyway, because
the calorific value of waste oil is so diminished through use, that the Btu
would be something like a quarter of what ordinary heating oil would
provide. So no wonder it never made it higher than 900-1000 =B0C even
though real oil-fired kilns were supposed to be more suited to high-firing.
In those gung-ho days, there was no mention of heavy metals and the likes,
but even so there were health concerns too. Not least that fine carbon and
the high lead content of motor oil in those days.
And funnily enough I was talking to Richard Cheshire, a local potter, not
too long ago who was apparently at the very college where the "mad
professor" (cannot remember the name, but could find out if you want) had
been working on the waste oil kilns that had "inspired" us way back then.
He also said that although it was an interesting exercise, no one took them
seriously for very long because they really were extremely dirty. Other
environmental concerns have dawned on us since the 70s too, which is
probably why no one would consider using these sorts of "dirty" fuels today
for fear of being closed down by Health & Safety executives, even if the
technology had improved. I am sure quite a few would love to be able to
re-cycle waste oil as the spiraling cost of fuel is making everyone very
conscious of their overheads, but I suspect most would soon opt out again.
Life is just too short for some things.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser - wandering down memory lane, when I should be preparing for
the change of exhibition Monday/Tuesday...
**********************************************************************
TRUTH is too precious to tell every fool who asks for it...
****** This post was sent to you today by Janet Kaiser *******
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
**********************************************************************
Janet Kaiser on mon 19 may 03
Lighten up, Phil! What 18-20 year olds approach "problem solving" in the
same way as those with years of life experience under their belts? A gang
of kids from comfortable middle-class backgrounds who had not even dirtied
their hands before going to college, with their only support a technician
whose greatest pride was his spotless lab coat, are not ideal candidates
for brain of the year awards when it comes to solving technical problems.
It was "cutting edge" stuff at the time and we were pretty excited about
the whole concept and had a go, even if we failed. In hindsight, we did
pretty well to get anything working, without setting fire to the whole
college!
Their efforts may have been contemptible, but they (we) certainly entered
into the project full of enthusiasm. Yes, failure was probably a result of
incompetence, ignorance and sheer inability to appreciate the principles
involved, but like I said it was 30 years ago and is a pretty good story
about how NOT to set about a project of that nature. Even "common sense"
cannot be applied to complicated problems without some sort of experience
to back it up. Yes, it was all very much a case of "where fools rush in",
which was the whole point of my post.
Waste oil aside... There must be a reason why oil-fired kilns do not share
the popularity of propane, gas or electric. Does anyone have experience of
modern commercially fired oil kilns? Is there even such a beast? Out of
idyl curiosity, I would like to know how they perform vs the home-made
version. I do not believe that the "dirt factor" can be avoided, but will
look forward to being corrected.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
*** IN REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING MAIL:
*** From: pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET
*** E-address: pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET
*** Sent: 17/05/03 Time: 19:32
>Hi Janet!
>
>This is terrible!
>
>Is it possible to surmise that a modicum of 'sense' would
>have benifited them?
>
>snip<
>They demonstrated nothing other than their contempt for the
>task, and it's appreciation.
>
>All that 'carbon' was not a 'clue' to them?
>
>...sheesh!
>
>
>Phil
>el vee
*** THE MAIL FROM pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET ENDS HERE ***
**********************************************************************
TRUTH is too precious to tell every fool who asks for it...
****** This post was sent to you today by Janet Kaiser *******
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
**********************************************************************
Louis Katz on mon 19 may 03
I needed a way to get my louvered oil burners to start earlier on waste
oil in a kiln with a huge firebox. I could not preheat much with wood.
There was a wood cutting ban. I sloped the louvers back and forth so
that the lower louver could preheat the middle. A sketch is available
at: http://falcon.tamucc.edu/~lkatz/oilburner.gif.
It takes a bit more vertical space.
Louis
lkatz@falcon.tamucc.edu
Roly Beevor on tue 20 may 03
Janet wrote
> Like my Mother would always say: "If you cannot be good, be careful".
"And if you can't be careful," she continued, "buy a pram." But you'd
already slammed the door.
Of course when Janet makes a reference to a joke with sexual connotations
she does it so subtly that nobody could take offence.
Roland
Janet Kaiser on tue 20 may 03
*** From: Sam or Mary Yancy
*** E-address: satima@pacbell.net
*** Sent: 17/05/03 Time: 21:44
>Thank you! For we who is/are suffeing From COPD (Me) it needs to be
>told . I smoked for 53 years, in my time welded cadimum and cut /tourched
>lead and filled manufactured doors whith abestos - it needs to send a
>message to be carfull!!! Who do I blame ? ME - for not being
>careful. PLEASE BE CAREFULL ON WHAT YOU INHALE.
*** THE MAIL FROM Sam or Mary Yancy ENDS HERE ***
Sorry to hear of your condition. Although I must admit I do not know what
COPD actually is, it sounds serious. Besides all the known "nasties", there
is so much which we are not aware of because it has not been "proven" yet
and more which we cannot taste or smell, but is nevertheless a potential
danger.
Just this week, someone came into The CoA and said... "Oh, I can smell
Bourne Seal". Now that is a heavy-duty wooden floor sealant, which was last
used in January and is as hard and dry as anything. Now FOUR months later,
"ordinary" people cannot smell it, but this guy was obviously senthitised
(sp?) to it by years of working for the company. Just goes to show that
vapours are still "active" and insidious, but we are just not aware of
them.
Perhaps this is why some people sneeze when they have been in here a few
minutes? We always presumed it was the drier atmosphere inside, compared to
what is outside (ocean on the doorstep). Whatever, just because one is not
aware of potential sources of "contamination", does not mean they do not
exist.
Like my Mother would always say: "If you cannot be good, be careful".
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser -
**********************************************************************
TRUTH is too precious to tell every fool who asks for it...
****** This post was sent to you today by Janet Kaiser *******
The Chapel of Art / Capel Celfyddyd
8 Marine Crescent, Criccieth LL52 0EA, Wales, UK
Tel: ++44 (01766) 523570 URL: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
**********************************************************************
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