Marcia Selsor on thu 12 jun 03
I always dry my lids on the pots. I use a little strip of paper that
goes 2 " over the end of the pots so I can lift the lids out when I want
to clean up the dried surface or add handles etc. I also fire the lids
together. I pretty much use a flat gallery on the pot, the lid is a
plain rim. This keeps the boiling food from boiling over the gallery and
into the oven.
Best wishes,
marcia
Maurice Weitman wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> How can one (or more) make lids for large forms so that when they're
> dry and fired twice, they still fit? I almost always make the lids
> from the same batch of wedged clay as the pot, but have had
> inconsistent results with fit.
>
> Obviously, there's whatever slumping the lid might go through in the
> drying and firing process, but what about the shrink rates?
>
> In general, would lids tend to shrink more or less than their bowls?
>
> It doesn't seem that slumping effected the width much if at all, but
> to mitigate slumping, I've been making lids heavier. How does that
> effect how much it will shrink in its width?
>
> Is it better to bisque fire them together? If so, should I prop the
> lid from the inside?
>
> Is a sloping gallery preferable to one that's flat?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> Maurice
>
>
> ps I've been resisting the temptation to join in the frays, but while
> I'm here...
>
> At 4:28 PM -0500 on 6/11/03, Butch Welch wrote:
>
>> Why not put the tag line to good use; Be of good courage.... and drop the
>> continued negative subject line, you only serve to perpetuate it.
>
>
> And why are YOU perpetuating it by continuing to use the same subject line?
>
>> Sorry but my delete key is getting a work out.
>
>
> So you want everyone else to work out their delete keys on your
> message addressed to Lili?
>
> I'll bet most readers of clayart find Lili's postings as helpful,
> informative, and positive as I. I wonder how many would say that for
> yours?
>
>> Butch, Be of good courage....
>
>
> Butch, maybe you should go back to your former tag line "Don't shot
> the messenger just because you do not like the message" and live by
> it, too.
>
> Lili, I would encourage you to abide by the modern meaning of
> "Illegitimi Non Carborundum" Don't let the bastards wear you down.
> As I'm sure you know, the original meaning
>
> has little to do with that, but ...
>
> m
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
--
Tuscany in 2003
http://home.attbi.com/~m.selsor/Tuscany2003.html
Earl Brunner on thu 12 jun 03
Using the same piece of clay or or clay from the same lump is a good
step in the right direction.
Factors that might affect your results:
1. Are you throwing both pieces about the same thickness?
2. Are you using the same amount of water to lubricate while you are
throwing? In other words are either the lid or the pot getting the
chance to soak up more or less water during the process of throwing
them, because if so, even if you start out with a similar moisture
content, you may not be ending up with the same moisture content.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Maurice
Weitman
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 1:39 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Making casserole (etc.) lids that fit
Howdy,
How can one (or more) make lids for large forms so that when they're
dry and fired twice, they still fit? I almost always make the lids
from the same batch of wedged clay as the pot, but have had
inconsistent results with fit.
Obviously, there's whatever slumping the lid might go through in the
drying and firing process, but what about the shrink rates?
Bruce on Earthlink on thu 12 jun 03
One of my favorite tasks in throwing pots is to be able to make casseroles
with lids that fit and look like they are an integral part of the pot. It
has been a long time coming.
Here is how I do it.
First the lid should look like it belongs on or compliments the lower half.
1) I throw the lid first. The lid should be thrown smoothly. Making last
minute adjustments and pushing the clay at the last minute to make a exact
diameter may defeat your purpose as when the clay dries or is fired it will
try to return to the shape it had before you started pushing it.
2) It is easier for me to get the bottom half of the casserole to conform to
the lid then with the lid. Rather then push the clay toward the end of the
throwing I will trim it to fit later when it is leather hard. This avoids
the clay memory pulling back to where it doesn't fit. The rim that the lid
sits on should have 1/16" or so slack before it touches the outside wall.
3) I always keep the parts on the bat until I get the fit I want and then I
cut them off.
4) There are a number of different way to lid a casserole. It may be best
to put the flange on the lid. On the inside or the
outside. I like to do it different ways.
Hope I answered the right question.
Bruce Michaels
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maurice Weitman"
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 4:38 PM
Subject: Making casserole (etc.) lids that fit
> Howdy,
>
> How can one (or more) make lids for large forms so that when they're
> dry and fired twice, they still fit? I almost always make the lids
> from the same batch of wedged clay as the pot, but have had
> inconsistent results with fit.
>
> Obviously, there's whatever slumping the lid might go through in the
> drying and firing process, but what about the shrink rates?
>
> In general, would lids tend to shrink more or less than their bowls?
>
> It doesn't seem that slumping effected the width much if at all, but
> to mitigate slumping, I've been making lids heavier. How does that
> effect how much it will shrink in its width?
>
> Is it better to bisque fire them together? If so, should I prop the
> lid from the inside?
>
> Is a sloping gallery preferable to one that's flat?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> Maurice
>
>
> ps I've been resisting the temptation to join in the frays, but while
> I'm here...
>
> At 4:28 PM -0500 on 6/11/03, Butch Welch wrote:
> >Why not put the tag line to good use; Be of good courage.... and drop
the
> >continued negative subject line, you only serve to perpetuate it.
>
> And why are YOU perpetuating it by continuing to use the same subject
line?
>
> >Sorry but my delete key is getting a work out.
>
> So you want everyone else to work out their delete keys on your
> message addressed to Lili?
>
> I'll bet most readers of clayart find Lili's postings as helpful,
> informative, and positive as I. I wonder how many would say that for
> yours?
>
> >Butch, Be of good courage....
>
> Butch, maybe you should go back to your former tag line "Don't shot
> the messenger just because you do not like the message" and live by
> it, too.
>
> Lili, I would encourage you to abide by the modern meaning of
> "Illegitimi Non Carborundum" Don't let the bastards wear you down.
> As I'm sure you know, the original meaning
>
an/Topics/Language/Illegitimi/2.html>
> has little to do with that, but ...
>
> m
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Maurice Weitman on thu 12 jun 03
Howdy,
How can one (or more) make lids for large forms so that when they're
dry and fired twice, they still fit? I almost always make the lids
from the same batch of wedged clay as the pot, but have had
inconsistent results with fit.
Obviously, there's whatever slumping the lid might go through in the
drying and firing process, but what about the shrink rates?
In general, would lids tend to shrink more or less than their bowls?
It doesn't seem that slumping effected the width much if at all, but
to mitigate slumping, I've been making lids heavier. How does that
effect how much it will shrink in its width?
Is it better to bisque fire them together? If so, should I prop the
lid from the inside?
Is a sloping gallery preferable to one that's flat?
Thanks.
Regards,
Maurice
ps I've been resisting the temptation to join in the frays, but while
I'm here...
At 4:28 PM -0500 on 6/11/03, Butch Welch wrote:
>Why not put the tag line to good use; Be of good courage.... and drop the
>continued negative subject line, you only serve to perpetuate it.
And why are YOU perpetuating it by continuing to use the same subject line?
>Sorry but my delete key is getting a work out.
So you want everyone else to work out their delete keys on your
message addressed to Lili?
I'll bet most readers of clayart find Lili's postings as helpful,
informative, and positive as I. I wonder how many would say that for
yours?
>Butch, Be of good courage....
Butch, maybe you should go back to your former tag line "Don't shot
the messenger just because you do not like the message" and live by
it, too.
Lili, I would encourage you to abide by the modern meaning of
"Illegitimi Non Carborundum" Don't let the bastards wear you down.
As I'm sure you know, the original meaning
has little to do with that, but ...
m
Lily Krakowski on fri 13 jun 03
If it does not stop raining here NOTHING will fit!
Ok. Cardew tells us bowls shrink more than lids and why. I have rarely
found it an problem.
As a rule casseroles are thicker than their lids and this may be a factor,
as the lid would dry more rapidly and so on. I make my lids the same
thickness as the walls of the pot.... Possible solution 1: Dry casseroles
slowly.
Because of knobs and such lids often are handled a lot more as leather hard
clay than casseroles are. Possible Solution 2: Be gentle! If you throw
the knobs onto the lid be sure there is PLENTY of support underneath that
area when you work. As you will be rewetting the central part, be sure to
allow really slow drying. Covering the lower wider part of the lid with
liquid wax, while the knob part dries and letting THE WHOLE THING dry SLOWLY
may help.
As soon as the pot is finished the lid stays on. Many potters (WEARING
MASKS) rotate or "grind" the lid on the gallery when the pot is dry to
ensure better smoother fit. I dry lid and pot together, bisque them
together, and glaze fire them (most of them) together using resist on rims
and galleries when I glaze".
Galleries as a rule are flat, level. But make the gallery generous. The lid
should have a little bit of wiggle room, so that if lid does deform or
shrink it still has support.
Last suggestion. Throw lids first, fit pots to them!!!!! Reason? A lid is
more fragile than the pot and trimming the edges, rim of a lid does more
damage than adjusting the gallery.
Maurice Weitman writes:
> Howdy,
>
> How can one (or more) make lids for large forms so that when they're
> dry and fired twice, they still fit? I almost always make the lids
> from the same batch of wedged clay as the pot, but have had
> inconsistent results with fit.
>
> Obliously, there's whatever slumping the lid might go through in the
> drying and firing process, but what about the shrink rates?
>
> In general, would lids tend to shrink more or less than their bowls?
>
> It doesn't seem that slumping effected the width much if at all, but
> to mitigate slumping, I've been making lids heavier. How does that
> effect how much it will shrink in its width?
>
> Is it better to bisque fire them together? If so, should I prop the
> lid from the inside?
>
> Is a sloping gallery preferable to one that's flat?
>
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
kruzewski on fri 13 jun 03
Hi Maurice,
I've been to quite a few workshops, and seen a lot of people do this, as
well as my own experiences.
They always use a calliper to measure the rebate in the pot as soon as it's
thrown. They throw the lid soon after and make it a tiny bit smaller than
the callipered measurement - fit but not so tight it sticks.
Some may disagree with me on this but I think the way to make sure it fits
is to fire the base and the lid together, both times, and without any
stilting. This means you have to be careful not to leave any glaze on either
of the contact surfaces - and sometimes they need a little tap after firing
to get them apart. The way to ensure your lids do NOT fit is to fire them
seperately.
Two small "for examples" - when I was at evening class standard I made a
little covered jar. For some unknown reason the woman that ran the pottery
fired the bottom in one firing and the top in another - then overfired the
kiln with the top in. So I got a terracotta base, with yellow glaze and a
dark brown clay top with crazed green glaze - just great! To this day,
though, I still use it as my day to day sugar bowl and no-one thinks it's
odd.
Secondly, theres a guy in college who did casseroles for the first time.
they were really nice, but he made the lids so tight that when they glaze
fired the casserole bases split apart to accomodate the lids.
Just the way I do it.
Jacqui
North Wales
Paul Herman on fri 13 jun 03
Hello Maurice and All,
I've always been intrigued by this phenomenon. The Pots shrink more than
the Lids.
On normal sized casseroles (thrown with 9-10 inch lip) I make the Lid
flange about 1/4 inch smaller than it looks like it should be. This is
working pretty well, though once in a while the Pot will seize the Lid
during firing and I have to hammer and pry to get it off. Then grind it
some.
My Theory is this: The wet, freshly thrown Pot starts to dry and shrink,
as does the Lid. The Lid, because of it's flat, platelike form, is
constrained by being stuck to the bat. The Lip of the Pot is free to
shrink with no drag.
The seizure during firing looks to me like it could be blamed on slight
warping of the Pot.
Any other explanations out there?
From Doyle where we just had our first wildfire and it's still Spring.
It went pretty well, mostly staying on the ground and only killing a few
Pines. A good Fire, and the BLM Captain looked pleased to be in his
element.
Good firings,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
423-725 Scott Road
Doyle, California 96109 US
potter@psln.com
----------
>From: Maurice Weitman
> Howdy,
>
> How can one (or more) make lids for large forms so that when they're
> dry and fired twice, they still fit? I almost always make the lids
> from the same batch of wedged clay as the pot, but have had
> inconsistent results with fit.
>
> Obviously, there's whatever slumping the lid might go through in the
> drying and firing process, but what about the shrink rates?
>
> In general, would lids tend to shrink more or less than their bowls?
>
> It doesn't seem that slumping effected the width much if at all, but
> to mitigate slumping, I've been making lids heavier. How does that
> effect how much it will shrink in its width?
>
> Is it better to bisque fire them together? If so, should I prop the
> lid from the inside?
>
> Is a sloping gallery preferable to one that's flat?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> Maurice
Rod Wuetherick on fri 13 jun 03
Lids that fit.
1. If you are making one or several make sure that the clay that you make
the lid and the body out of come from the same lump.
2. Always size the lid a little larger than the body. Reason? It is easier
to take a little off than it is to put some back on.
As far as putting thrown handles on what I do is simple.
1. Cover the body as soon as it is stiff but not leather hard. The lid will
usually take longer to dry than the body as you usually leave them a bit
thicker so as not to slump while throwing.
2. When the lid can be flipped- flip it and wait until it stiffens up to
almost leather hard. When you are trimming make sure that before you trim
the lid to it's final thickness - throw the handle. I have never understood
why people wait to throw the handle when the lid is so thin that you need to
jury rig something under it for support. Throw the handle before you
complete the trimming when there is some clay left to support the pressure.
When the handle is thrown complete the trimming. Very easy and next to fool
proof.
3. Now take that leather-hard lid and put it back in the "fairly wet" base
and re-wrap ( I would like to say that this is not strictly important- it is
just the way I do it). The reason I do this is that I leave them for a few
days to equalize moisture. I mostly do this when I'm putting a
pulled/extruded handle on top. If the handle is thrown it does not matter
as much. Simply put this step allows the two to equalize moisture.
4. After 2 days under dry-cleaners plastic - As an aside here dry cleaners
plastic in my opinion is a potters best friend. Find where you can buy a
roll of it. Probably last you years for $20-$30 bucks.
5. Pull your handles. Stiffen them up. Size them for each of the casseroles
by holding them up to the lid/body and looking through the plastic. There is
a reason for this - mostly for production.
5(a) After sizing them you can place your handles on the lid (on top of the
plastic) and let them stiffen in the shape you will be attaching them onto
the vessel. I usually do casseroles in runs of 10-20 and what I do is as the
handles stiffen up to roughly the same as the clay body I just drape plastic
over the lined up casseroles (that are individually wrapped in dry-cleaners
plastic) with the handles on the lids (on top of the plastic) so that the
handles do not dry any more. This will allow you to never have shrinkage
cracks but allow you to work in a production manner.
5. Now unwrap attach handles to the bottom and lid if need be. I re-wrap
again and let them sit under plastic for 2-3 more days. Obviously these
steps are dependent on how your clay body reacts.
Obviously every ones methods will differ but this is how I have been doing
production casseroles for years and it allows me to keep everything in the
exact condition I would like it to be in in a hectic something always comes
up studio situation.
Cheers,
Rod
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 13 jun 03
...hi Lily,
I have not made very many lidded things, but when I did, I
found no troubles Trimming those Lids, or trimming a relief
or step into them, or what as may be...
How have you found 'damages' or troubles with Trimming your
Lids?
Phil
Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lily Krakowski"
> Last suggestion. Throw lids first, fit pots to them!!!!!
Reason? A lid is
> more fragile than the pot and trimming the edges, rim of a
lid does more
> damage than adjusting the gallery.
Ned Ludd on fri 13 jun 03
Lily Krakowski wrote:
>
>Ok. Cardew tells us bowls shrink more than lids and why. I have rarely
>found it an problem.
>
>As a rule casseroles are thicker than their lids
It's not a rule. If it is, I never heard of it! Your casseroles, maybe?
>and this may be a factor,
>as the lid would dry more rapidly and so on. I make my lids the same
>thickness as the walls of the pot.... Possible solution 1: Dry casseroles
>slowly.
Try it if you have plenty of shelf space to spare and time to waste.
Slow drying does NOT affect the final size. It is not a possible
solution, sorry.
>
>Because of knobs and such lids often are handled a lot more as leather hard
>clay than casseroles are. Possible Solution 2: Be gentle! If you throw
>the knobs onto the lid be sure there is PLENTY of support underneath that
>area when you work. As you will be rewetting the central part, be sure to
>allow really slow drying.
I've made scores of lidded casseroles at a time, good enough for the
Craft Potters Association shop, London, England, not the easiest
people to satisfy... the "really slow drying" you advocate as a must,
is not necessary. Nor does the leatherhard lid require support
beneath the thrown knob of clay. If it does, the lid may be too thin
or the lid's clay too soft. Hint: make the clay you throw the knob
from very soft.. even softer than your regular throwing consistency.
Then you can bear down on it and the lid it is thrown on with less
pressure.
If you are working with a very smooth, dense, over-plastic body,
expect it to be more problem-prone with cracking. (Two words for
American potters buying boxed clay... "B Mix" .... the clay that sold
truckloads of cold wax resist just to stop luting cracks.)
I would not recommend making casseroles with it: for cooking pots
there are better clays to use. A moderately grogged stoneware is what
I'd prefer for ovenware.
I keep getting the impression you have never made pots in production
quantities, Lili. Nobody has to do it that way, of course, but for
gaining know-how it teaches potters like nothing else, as the Mayor
oft reminds us, and as every potter would agree who, like him, was
ever an apprentice in a production pottery.
>Covering the lower wider part of the lid with
>liquid wax, while the knob part dries and letting THE WHOLE THING dry SLOWLY
>may help.
And would really slow down a busy potter, enough to make him lose
pace - and money. Again, emphasising slow drying is misleading. EVEN,
regular drying is the goal.
It seems to me that you are too quick to make assumptions and post
them as fact, or give them much more weight than is justified. I must
chide you on this. Why? Because it is liable to mislead literally
hundreds of clayarters, getting underway as potters, who do not
realise that your profusion of posts/high exposure on clayart is not
in proportion to your knowledge. I say this with respect _and
reluctance_ because I know you are a generous and kindly contributor
on clayart who is always quick to offer help.
>
>As soon as the pot is finished the lid stays on. Many potters (WEARING
>MASKS) rotate or "grind" the lid on the gallery when the pot is dry to
>ensure better smoother fit.
"Many potters..??" Who?
In thirty years I have not met one single potter who dons a mask when
doing this.
I'd like to hear from them, especially the professionals who have
been at it for years.
This one wins the prize for most hysterical pseudo-safety measure I
have ever seen advocated on clayart! Fortunately my worst enemy
couldn't accuse me of having no sense of humor.. and you are
obviously pulling our legs! um, right?
>I dry lid and pot together, bisque them
>together, and glaze fire them (most of them) together using resist on rims
>and galleries when I glaze".
>
>Galleries as a rule are flat, level. But make the gallery generous. The lid
>should have a little bit of wiggle room, so that if lid does deform or
>shrink it still has support.
A generously wide gallery should not be so wide that it interferes
with reaching inside or with washing the pot. I see no point in a
gallery wider than a half inch, max. If it had to be wider in order
to support the lid, the lid is too small.
Which means - not good enough. Bite the bullet! Shard heap or seconds sale.
>
>Last suggestion. Throw lids first, fit pots to them!!!!! Reason? A lid is
>more fragile than the pot and trimming the edges, rim of a lid does more
>damage than adjusting the gallery.
Huh? A lid is more fragile than the pot? This is not axiomatic.
There's no reason for it to be so. It depends on the potter and the
design. In fact, making a delicate lid for a casserole, which should
obviously be sturdy enough to stand up to kitchen use (not that it
needs be heavy) is _ face it! _ clearly poor design. The functional
pot and its lid should be of one spirit, a unity.
Lili, I know you mean well, but... How about dropping your
oft-repeated, sweeping statements: "Many potters do...
or "As a rule, ..." or "You MUST..." and tell
us the unadorned truth: "I do it this way, and here's why _ I _
recommend it."
I may now and then wince when I read your posts, Lili, but I will
never dispute your right to describe your methods of working,
honestly, as the way you _personally_ do it. Since every post on
Clayart reaches thousands, many of them eager learners without
extensive practical experience, we should all be careful about
presenting our own methods and assumptions as shared dogma. Here on
the internet a little misinformation goes a very long way... and darn
it, the wrong way!
best wishes,
Ned
who agrees with Paul Herman about making lids a tad smaller than the
gallery size.
A potter making many standard-sized lidded pots at a time soon learns
this the hard way.. Say, Paul, is that how you gcame by your moniker,
Hardway Herman? My sympathies.. been there
>Maurice Weitman writes:
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> How can one (or more) make lids for large forms so that when they're
>> dry and fired twice, they still fit? I almost always make the lids
>> from the same batch of wedged clay as the pot, but have had
>> inconsistent results with fit.
>>
>> Obliously, there's whatever slumping the lid might go through in the
>> drying and firing process, but what about the shrink rates?
>>
>> In general, would lids tend to shrink more or less than their bowls?
>>
>> It doesn't seem that slumping effected the width much if at all, but
>> to mitigate slumping, I've been making lids heavier. How does that
>> effect how much it will shrink in its width?
>>
>> Is it better to bisque fire them together? If so, should I prop the
>> lid from the inside?
>>
>> Is a sloping gallery preferable to one that's flat?
>>
>
>Constableville, N.Y.
>(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Lily Krakowski on sat 14 jun 03
Phil, thanks for giving me an opportunity to explain. I have no troubles
with lidded pots of any kind. I have not had trouble with lidded pots since
1952. Why? Because I had a drill-master teacher, Frans Wildenhain, and
because I practiced practiced practiced.
When I see questions of a certain kind I make the assumption that the person
asking does not know the answer, or does not have a an experienced potter at
hand. So I extrapolate from my own early experiences and what I have seen
students do.
People tend to overhandle lids. They cut them off the bat too soon, they
forget to turn them upside down for drying, they do not take into account
that when a lid is thrown wrong side up--like a plate--and they intend to
trim the knob out they leave a big layer of clay (needed) tapering to a
narrow rim, which dries more quickly.
Then when they DO trim the knob out they often use too much pressure, and if
they use little coils to hold the lid centered that too can cause minute
distortions. Then they often want to cut in a notch for a spoon and again,
use too much pressure, or do it when the clay is not quite hard or quite
soft enough.....
In other words lids tend to get handled too much.
Please let me add another thing. I have learned a lot from Clayart, for the
simple reason that we have members from all over the world who learned at
the feet of all kinds of masters. We have Japanese ones, and European one
and British, and American and Canadian....This brings us information about
an incredible number of techniques. For instance I learned only in 1997 a
technique Karl Martz had taught a DC potter: to "feed" a brush putting slip
or color on a pot on the wheel with a rubber syringe. I just had never been
exposed to that before.
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
> ....hi Lily,
>
> How have you found 'damages' or troubles with Trimming your
> Lids?
>
> Phil
> Las Vegas
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lily Krakowski"
>
>> Last suggestion. Throw lids first, fit pots to them!!!!!
> Reason? A lid is
>> more fragile than the pot and trimming the edges, rim of a
> lid does more
>> damage than adjusting the gallery.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Lili Krakowski
P.O. Box #1
Constableville, N.Y.
(315) 942-5916/ 397-2389
Be of good courage....
Paul Herman on sat 14 jun 03
Howdy Nedd and Everyone,
Casserole lids are only one of MANY characteristics that have caused the
moniker "Hardway" to be hung on me. Heating my house with Mountain
Mahogany, the hardest wood available in these parts, making my own clay
(did you know that many Potters are AFRAID of making Clay?) , sifting
ashes and crushing rocks for "fun", trimming my mugs, driving a thrashed
38 year old truck that breaks down a lot, building the Kiln shed with
"too many" rafters and nails, taking my bath outside in the yard, being
fussy and picky when building Arches (none of MINE have fallen down
yet!), hacking at the weeds with the swing blade, hauling wood and
chopping water, etc., etc., you get the picture.
Hey Nedd, thanks for the book recommendation, I think maybe I've been
one of them Zen's all along and didn't know it.
Happy Toiling,
Hardway Herman
Great Basin Pottery
423-725 Scott Road
Doyle, California 96109 US
potter@psln.com
----------
>From: Ned Ludd
> Ned
> who agrees with Paul Herman about making lids a tad smaller than the
> gallery size.
> A potter making many standard-sized lidded pots at a time soon learns
> this the hard way.. Say, Paul, is that how you gcame by your moniker,
> Hardway Herman? My sympathies.. been there
camoore on sat 14 jun 03
Hi, Clayarters,
Hardway Herman speaks the truth. I have visited his place, in the middle of
nowhere, perched on the side of a hill.
Hardway-Paul fails to mention his two-holer outdoor toilet.
Snail Scott and Valice Raffi can vouch for me.
Charles
Sacramento
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Herman"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: Making casserole (etc.) lids that fit
> Howdy Nedd and Everyone,
>
> Casserole lids are only one of MANY characteristics that have caused the
> moniker "Hardway" to be hung on me. Heating my house with Mountain
> Mahogany, the hardest wood available in these parts, making my own clay
> (did you know that many Potters are AFRAID of making Clay?) , sifting
> ashes and crushing rocks for "fun", trimming my mugs, driving a thrashed
> 38 year old truck that breaks down a lot, building the Kiln shed with
> "too many" rafters and nails, taking my bath outside in the yard, being
> fussy and picky when building Arches (none of MINE have fallen down
> yet!), hacking at the weeds with the swing blade, hauling wood and
> chopping water, etc., etc., you get the picture.
>
> Hey Nedd, thanks for the book recommendation, I think maybe I've been
> one of them Zen's all along and didn't know it.
>
> Happy Toiling,
>
> Hardway Herman
> Great Basin Pottery
> 423-725 Scott Road
> Doyle, California 96109 US
> potter@psln.com
>
> ----------
> >From: Ned Ludd
>
> > Ned
> > who agrees with Paul Herman about making lids a tad smaller than the
> > gallery size.
> > A potter making many standard-sized lidded pots at a time soon learns
> > this the hard way.. Say, Paul, is that how you gcame by your moniker,
> > Hardway Herman? My sympathies.. been there
>
>
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melpots@pclink.com.
Kathi LeSueur on sat 14 jun 03
I make lots of casseroles and try to have a very good fit on all of
them. There are several things I can recommend. First, I don't attach a
knob or strap handle. I throw the lid upside down with a base that is
about 2 1/2 " deep. Then I turn it over when it is leather hard and
trim away a knob. Second, I have a stick that I use to measure the lid
for a two quart casserole. I throw both pieces to fit this measurement.
I usually throw twenty casseroles at a time and only a few lids need
adjusting. To do this I put the lid upside down in a chuck before
trimming the knob. I level it with a bubble level and then trim the edge
to fit the pot. The gallery is important. It needs to be deep enough and
have the proper slope to hold the lid in place. Otherwise, it will slip
when the wax melts in firing. I think the best profile would mimic the
profile of a dime cut in half. And, last dry and fire with the lid in
place. That will eliminate warping on either piece.
Kathi
Janet Kaiser on sun 15 jun 03
Just as an aside, my teacher taught us to biscuit fire with lids upside
down in the casserole. It allowed for stacking them one on top of another
too. We rarely had warped lids, but whether that was due to the clay
(usually well grogged for oven ware), the even thickness of the pots & lids
(including the gallery), the even drying or this firing method, I cannot
say. Probably a combination of all those factors.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser - where we had 660 people from 110 companies nationwide
running around on the "Microsoft Challenge"... Most exciting event to hit
Criccieth in a long time! There was a check point just outside The Chapel
of Art with electronic scanning equipment of armbands and they were handed
a piece of a circuit board... Now we know for sure how PCs are made! Quite
again now, with a full moon shining over the Bay as I write... Beautiful
but chilly... Thank goodness we are spared the 30=B0C+ temperatures they
have been having further south! Bonn, Germany was hotter than Beirut the
other day!
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TRUTH is too precious to tell every fool who asks for it...
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