Earl Brunner on mon 16 jun 03
If nothing else, since they presumably make the glaze, they should have
an idea which of their claybodies "fit" the glaze. The recommendation
to take a class seems a bit odd. If they won't give out the recipe of
the glaze (and I doubt they will) then a class would do little. You
didn't indicate what the problems might be that your students seem to be
having.
But coming up with a rational approach to problem solving without
knowing something about the composition of the glaze is next to
hopeless. Exactly what kind of class did he seem to think would be
beneficial? Generally Axner has a pretty good reputation. You might
consider going over his head and complaining to someone above him. I'm
sure if they have a problem, they would like to know it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Antoinette
Badenhorst
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 8:36 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Technical experience with Axner.
This morning I phoned on behalf of my students that are struggling with
some opulence glazes that they bought form Axner, to find out the do's
and don'ts with these glazes. Spoke with a guy called Roberto. His first
question was what clay is used and when I said white stoneware (which is
not their clay body) his answer was that he could not help me. We will
have to do some tests to find the right body. So my next question was to
give me some direction, whether it should be a darker body, should we
try barium or iron, or, .. bla bla bla. He told me that he can not tell
me and that I should take a class in order to find that out. Do you
think this was the right way to go? I did not ask their clay recipes, I
simply asked direction. I told him that he is discouraging my students
to use this glaze and definitely not encouraging them to use their clay.
I never bought anything from Axner before and with this kind of
attitude, I do not think I ever will...
Antoinette Badenhorst
Antoinette Badenhorst on mon 16 jun 03
This morning I phoned on behalf of my students that are struggling with
some opulence glazes that they bought form Axner, to find out the do's
and don'ts with these glazes. Spoke with a guy called Roberto. His first
question was what clay is used and when I said white stoneware (which is
not their clay body) his answer was that he could not help me. We will
have to do some tests to find the right body. So my next question was to
give me some direction, whether it should be a darker body, should we
try barium or iron, or, .. bla bla bla. He told me that he can not tell
me and that I should take a class in order to find that out. Do you
think this was the right way to go? I did not ask their clay recipes, I
simply asked direction. I told him that he is discouraging my students
to use this glaze and definitely not encouraging them to use their clay.
I never bought anything from Axner before and with this kind of
attitude, I do not think I ever will...
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS
38866
662 869 1651
Roger Korn on mon 16 jun 03
Hi Antoinette,
Please give Howard Axner hisself a call and share your experience. Axner
strives to do an exceptional job of support, and you seem to have hit a
weak link
No relationship, except as a satisfied customer,
Roger
Antoinette Badenhorst wrote:
>This morning I phoned on behalf of my students that are struggling with
>some opulence glazes that they bought form Axner, to find out the do's
>and don'ts with these glazes. Spoke with a guy called Roberto. His first
>question was what clay is used and when I said white stoneware (which is
>not their clay body) his answer was that he could not help me. We will
>have to do some tests to find the right body. So my next question was to
>give me some direction, whether it should be a darker body, should we
>try barium or iron, or, .. bla bla bla. He told me that he can not tell
>me and that I should take a class in order to find that out. Do you
>think this was the right way to go? I did not ask their clay recipes, I
>simply asked direction. I told him that he is discouraging my students
>to use this glaze and definitely not encouraging them to use their clay.
>
>I never bought anything from Axner before and with this kind of
>attitude, I do not think I ever will...
>
>Antoinette Badenhorst
>105 Westwood Circle
>Saltillo MS
>38866
>662 869 1651
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
--
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
In AZ: PO Box 463
4215 Culpepper Ranch Rd
Rimrock, AZ 86335
928-567-5699 <-
In OR: PO Box 436
31330 NW Pacific Ave.
North Plains, OR 97133
503-647-5464
Ron Collins on mon 16 jun 03
I don't order materials unless I think I know what I can do with them, and
if it doesn't go well, I test. They sell books written by experts (usually)
who know what they are talking about. Poor Roberto...write to the
manufacturer, and see what they say.
Rod Wuetherick on tue 17 jun 03
For the record (I have nothing to do with Axner) but I have spoken to
Roberto quite a few times
and he always seemed fairly helpful to me.
Your question is pretty ambiguous. What clay body should I use? Should it be
dark etc.
Does it not seem to be a fair response that you must test? Wouldn't it be
good experience for your
students to test? That is what it is like for us out here in the working
potters world. I mean
no disrespect to you but if you are not going to use clay bodies that Axner
has experience with I
would say the same thing, you got to test. What else can anyone do? Every
time I fire my kiln I have
at least 10 tests in there. Especially after last year and my Shino problem
costing me at least 10k
dollars. Now fusion buttons etc. go into every firing if materials change
etc. Ceramics is a life
of constant testing.
It seems unfair to me to accuse a company of having bad customer relations
when you are essentially asking them to do the foot work that most of us
must for ourselves. So far Axner has treated me quite well and Roberto who I
think can sometimes be succinct is not being rude just his style of
communicating. Sometimes brevity is good why waste a whole bunch of words to
arrive at the same answer. I would rather take the shorter route.
Cheers,
Rod
> This morning I phoned on behalf of my students that are struggling with
> some opulence glazes that they bought form Axner, to find out the do's
> and don'ts with these glazes. Spoke with a guy called Roberto. His first
> question was what clay is used and when I said white stoneware (which is
> not their clay body) his answer was that he could not help me. We will
> have to do some tests to find the right body. So my next question was to
> give me some direction, whether it should be a darker body, should we
> try barium or iron, or, .. bla bla bla. He told me that he can not tell
> me and that I should take a class in order to find that out. Do you
> think this was the right way to go? I did not ask their clay recipes, I
> simply asked direction. I told him that he is discouraging my students
> to use this glaze and definitely not encouraging them to use their clay.
Veena Raghavan on tue 17 jun 03
I think I have to chip in here in support of Axner. I have been ordering
from them for years now and have always found them helpful and efficient.=
I
recently had some correspondence and communication with Howard Axner, and=
he was absolutely wonderful. The only reason I do not order everything fr=
om
Axner is because of shipping costs, otherwise I would use them for
everything!
I think that experience with one person (and I do not know who Roberto is=
)
should not make any of us publicly criticise a company. I think we need t=
o
try to get a better response from the company first. I had some really ha=
rd
times with a wheel manufacturer, but I tried to sort things out with them=
first rather than go to Clayart and publicly damn their product. =
Clayart has become a very powerful tool, which is wonderful. But, I think=
it should be used only when one has had absolutely no satisfaction from t=
he
company. It is just too easy, when one is peaked or frustrated, to send o=
ff
a post to Clayart.
This is not aimed at Antoinette or anyone in particular. It is just that =
I
have a very strong feeling that one should not publicly criticise anyone,=
be it a company or a person, without first trying to resolve the problem =
in
a private forum.
I think Axner is a great company, and I often recommend them to others
telling them how helpful I have found the folks at Axner.
Veena
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
Antoinette Badenhorst on tue 17 jun 03
Dear Rod, you did not read my message well. Like you I have constantly
tests in my kiln and I am one of those teachers that encourage my
students to test. This was exactly the reason why I asked him to give me
some direction. He said that the clay that we used were wrong, which by
the way is a white stoneware from Trinity. This was not true, for one,
since in my years of experience there is no such thing like wrong clay.
Unsuitable clay for something particular, yes. I needed to know just
basic things about this glaze so that I could lead my student. Things
like....should this clay contain more iron? This is logical questions is
it not or is this what you call footwork? This is not a glaze that I use
in the studio. All my glazes are mixed up by me myself. So see Sir,
since I am in "class for the past 22 years" I do not need a person like
Robeto to tell me to go take a class. If this was a matter of miss
communication and I was in his shoes, then I would have asked someone
else to see if they could help. By the way, I had as many reactions for
Roberto as I had against him.(private e-mail) My little biddy business
knowledge teaches me to take possible treads and change them in
challenges. Maybe this is what Howard Axner will do in this case as
well. I take my hat off for him apologizing the way he did and this is a
good way for others that had similar experiences to get the air cleared
and move on.
Antoinette Badenhorst
105 Westwood Circle
Saltillo MS
38866
662 869 1651
www.clayanccanvas.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Rod
Wuetherick
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 4:28 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Technical experience with Axner.
For the record (I have nothing to do with Axner) but I have spoken to
Roberto quite a few times
and he always seemed fairly helpful to me.
Your question is pretty ambiguous. What clay body should I use? Should
it be
dark etc.
Does it not seem to be a fair response that you must test? Wouldn't it
be
good experience for your
students to test? That is what it is like for us out here in the working
potters world. I mean
no disrespect to you but if you are not going to use clay bodies that
Axner
has experience with I
would say the same thing, you got to test. What else can anyone do?
Every
time I fire my kiln I have
at least 10 tests in there. Especially after last year and my Shino
problem
costing me at least 10k
dollars. Now fusion buttons etc. go into every firing if materials
change
etc. Ceramics is a life
of constant testing.
It seems unfair to me to accuse a company of having bad customer
relations
when you are essentially asking them to do the foot work that most of us
must for ourselves. So far Axner has treated me quite well and Roberto
who I
think can sometimes be succinct is not being rude just his style of
communicating. Sometimes brevity is good why waste a whole bunch of
words to
arrive at the same answer. I would rather take the shorter route.
Cheers,
Rod
> This morning I phoned on behalf of my students that are struggling
with
> some opulence glazes that they bought form Axner, to find out the do's
> and don'ts with these glazes. Spoke with a guy called Roberto. His
first
> question was what clay is used and when I said white stoneware (which
is
> not their clay body) his answer was that he could not help me. We will
> have to do some tests to find the right body. So my next question was
to
> give me some direction, whether it should be a darker body, should we
> try barium or iron, or, .. bla bla bla. He told me that he can not
tell
> me and that I should take a class in order to find that out. Do you
> think this was the right way to go? I did not ask their clay recipes,
I
> simply asked direction. I told him that he is discouraging my
students
> to use this glaze and definitely not encouraging them to use their
clay.
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Kenneth D. Westfall on wed 18 jun 03
Gee she obvious was asking for help when she called and it doesn't take
rocket science to ask a few question to work out what she was wanting to
know. Axner didn't even talk with her and could guess at some of the
questions she was having.
If your going to be in business of selling over the phone then you need
your employs like Roberto to be able to answer question and anticipate the
needs of you customers. What makes for a good sales person is to leave
their personal baggage at home and treat every customer with a bit of the
"kid glove care". It pretty obvious to those of us that have met Axner,
knows he strives for the best service that can be offered. A new customer
who is hit with no help from the guy on the other end of the phone can only
conclude the company doesn't give a @#$%. Axner supply all potters
regardless of there skill level so the short answer doesn't always answers
everyone. Axner is lucky that there is a public forum to send a reply
to. If this had been some other business then the damage done by one
pissed customer could have turned into a major loss of money for unknown
reasons.
Kenneth D. Westfall
Pine Hill Pottery
R.D. #2 Box 6AA
Harrisville, WV 26362
pinehill@ruralnet.org
http://www.pinehillpottery.com
Steve Mills on wed 18 jun 03
The Supplier's dilemma.
I have to say that most of the time when talking to a customer the first
essential is to find out what the question is, as more often than not it
is NOT what they ask you first up! Once that is established, the next
step is to get them to join with you in discovering the (possible)
solution(s). Very little is learnt by giving the answer off pat; if you
can help them find it for themselves THAT'S progress and it sticks.
The biggest kick for me is when they ask you questions, and from the
word go you can hear the wheels whirring as they add your contribution
to their own investigations.
Steve
BPS
Bath
UK
In message , Rod Wuetherick writes
>For the record (I have nothing to do with Axner) but I have spoken to
>Roberto quite a few times
>and he always seemed fairly helpful to me.
>
>Your question is pretty ambiguous. What clay body should I use? Should it be
>dark etc.
>
>Does it not seem to be a fair response that you must test? Wouldn't it be
>good experience for your
>students to test? That is what it is like for us out here in the working
>potters world. I mean
>no disrespect to you but if you are not going to use clay bodies that Axner
>has experience with I
>would say the same thing, you got to test. What else can anyone do? Every
>time I fire my kiln I have
>at least 10 tests in there. Especially after last year and my Shino problem
>costing me at least 10k
>dollars. Now fusion buttons etc. go into every firing if materials change
>etc. Ceramics is a life
>of constant testing.
>
>It seems unfair to me to accuse a company of having bad customer relations
>when you are essentially asking them to do the foot work that most of us
>must for ourselves. So far Axner has treated me quite well and Roberto who I
>think can sometimes be succinct is not being rude just his style of
>communicating. Sometimes brevity is good why waste a whole bunch of words to
>arrive at the same answer. I would rather take the shorter route.
>
>
>
>Cheers,
>Rod
>
>
>
>
>> This morning I phoned on behalf of my students that are struggling with
>> some opulence glazes that they bought form Axner, to find out the do's
>> and don'ts with these glazes. Spoke with a guy called Roberto. His first
>> question was what clay is used and when I said white stoneware (which is
>> not their clay body) his answer was that he could not help me. We will
>> have to do some tests to find the right body. So my next question was to
>> give me some direction, whether it should be a darker body, should we
>> try barium or iron, or, .. bla bla bla. He told me that he can not tell
>> me and that I should take a class in order to find that out. Do you
>> think this was the right way to go? I did not ask their clay recipes, I
>> simply asked direction. I told him that he is discouraging my students
>> to use this glaze and definitely not encouraging them to use their clay.
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
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