Susan Fox-Hirschmann on sat 28 jun 03
I have lost my recipe for black stain. I intend to use it on a small covered
vessel with a Celtic design carved into the sides and lid....in porcelain.
I will be using it without glaze.
Thanks!
Susan
Anandale, VA
Eric B on sat 28 jun 03
i like "sybill's black stain" that ron roy gives in his book on cone 6
glazes. i can't put my hands on the recipe at the moment, but maybe you have the
book? if not let me know and i'll find it.
Roger Graham on mon 30 jun 03
For Susan, who was asking about a recipe for black stain. Here's a recipe
I've used for years under the name "Grebanier's Black". I found it in Joseph
Grebanier's book on Chinese Stoneware Glazes.
The recipe:
Black iron oxide = 43
Manganese dioxide = 18
Cobalt oxide = 15
Nickel oxide = 15
Chromic oxide = 9
Grind it thoroughly in a mortar for a long time. On its own, it's good for
dense black brushwork, or for labelling on glaze sample tests
More recently, I've been using this black mix as a surface wash over carved
work, with the addition of 50 parts of Frit 3134 to make it stick, and 3
parts of bentonite to try and keep it in suspension. The result has been a
delightful semi-matt dense black which doesn't obscure the details of a
carving. Just mix it very thin and watery, and flood it on with a soft
brush.
Mostly it has been coming out exactly as I want it (cone 10 reduction), but
just sometimes the surface has been rough and scratchy. Haven't resolved
this problem yet, but a temporary fix has been to add a very light mist of a
clear glaze, sprayed over the black, to make the surface a bit more fluid
when hot. Worth a try.
Roger Graham, near Gerringong, Australia
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rogergraham
Ron Roy on mon 30 jun 03
Not our book - no mention of stains - unless John slipped something by me.
RR
>i like "sybill's black stain" that ron roy gives in his book on cone 6
>glazes. i can't put my hands on the recipe at the moment, but maybe you
>have the
>book? if not let me know and i'll find it.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Ababi on mon 30 jun 03
The best advise I got was from... RR. This is not totally black but does not include the
chrome and manganese( I hope). You can try it:
80-90% black iron oxide
20-10% Cobalt oxide.
Ababi Sharon
Glaze addict
Kibbutz Shoval Israel
ababisha@shoval.org.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
http://www.matrix2000.co.nz/Matrix%20Demo/Ababi.htm
---------- Original Message ----------
>I have lost my recipe for black stain. I intend to use it on a small covered
>vessel with a Celtic design carved into the sides and lid....in porcelain.
>I will be using it without glaze.
>Thanks!
>Susan
>Anandale, VA
Eric B on mon 30 jun 03
Holy Cow! Sorry Ron for the wrong attribution. I coulda sworn I got the
recipe from your book (which, of course, I can't find in my various stacks of
stuff at present), but obviously I was wrong. Perhaps it's cuz I found your book
such a good resource (which it is) that my mind "defaulted" to assuming I got
it from there.
Oh well . . .
Thanks for setting the record straight.
Eric
"SpunMud"
Ron Roy on tue 1 jul 03
No problem Eric - wish I could remember where I get that stuff.
By the way - the black glaze "licorice" is coloured with 9 red iron and two
cobalt carb. Worth a try as a black stain - low toxicity.
Thanks for the kind words on Clay Art.
RR
>Holy Cow! Sorry Ron for the wrong attribution. I coulda sworn I got the
>recipe from your book (which, of course, I can't find in my various stacks of
>stuff at present), but obviously I was wrong. Perhaps it's cuz I found
>your book
>such a good resource (which it is) that my mind "defaulted" to assuming I got
>it from there.
>
>Oh well . . .
>
>Thanks for setting the record straight.
>
>Eric
>"SpunMud"
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Ron Roy on wed 2 jul 03
For those who decide to grind - Manganese, nickel and Chrome oxides are all
toxic - wear a proper mack and make sure it fits properly - if you have a
beard you have a problem.
Best to do this kind of thing outside so the dust is not loose in your studio.
RR
>For Susan, who was asking about a recipe for black stain. Here's a recipe
>I've used for years under the name "Grebanier's Black". I found it in Joseph
>Grebanier's book on Chinese Stoneware Glazes.
>
>The recipe:
> Black iron oxide = 43
>Manganese dioxide = 18
>Cobalt oxide = 15
>Nickel oxide = 15
>Chromic oxide = 9
>
>Grind it thoroughly in a mortar for a long time. On its own, it's good for
>dense black brushwork, or for labelling on glaze sample tests
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Phone: 613-475-9544
Fax: 613-475-3513
Susan Fox-Hirschmann on wed 2 jul 03
In a message dated 7/2/2003 11:14:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ronroy@TOTAL.NET writes:
<< For those who decide to grind - Manganese, nickel and Chrome oxides are all
toxic - wear a proper mack and make sure it fits properly - if you have a
beard you have a problem.
>>
ah yes, rid myself of that beard years ago!!!!
Susan
Annandale, VA
Susan Fox-Hirschmann on wed 2 jul 03
clarification please?
Is this good for oxidation...thought it was a reduction (only) stain.
Thanks!
Susan
Snail Scott on wed 2 jul 03
At 12:42 PM 7/2/03 EDT, you wrote:
>clarification please?
>Is this good for oxidation...thought it was a reduction (only) stain.
Most black stain recipes do fine in either,
if they include cobalt. If they don't have
any cobalt they can be a little brownish,
especially in oxidation. You can get away
with less cobalt in reduction, though.
-Snail
John Rodgers on sun 6 jul 03
What is "Chromic Oxide"? Same as Chrome Oxide????
Thanks,
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
Roger Graham wrote:
>For Susan, who was asking about a recipe for black stain. Here's a recipe
>I've used for years under the name "Grebanier's Black". I found it in Joseph
>Grebanier's book on Chinese Stoneware Glazes.
>
>The recipe:
> Black iron oxide = 43
>Manganese dioxide = 18
>Cobalt oxide = 15
>Nickel oxide = 15
>Chromic oxide = 9
>
>Grind it thoroughly in a mortar for a long time. On its own, it's good for
>dense black brushwork, or for labelling on glaze sample tests
>
>More recently, I've been using this black mix as a surface wash over carved
>work, with the addition of 50 parts of Frit 3134 to make it stick, and 3
>parts of bentonite to try and keep it in suspension. The result has been a
>delightful semi-matt dense black which doesn't obscure the details of a
>carving. Just mix it very thin and watery, and flood it on with a soft
>brush.
>
>Mostly it has been coming out exactly as I want it (cone 10 reduction), but
>just sometimes the surface has been rough and scratchy. Haven't resolved
>this problem yet, but a temporary fix has been to add a very light mist of a
>clear glaze, sprayed over the black, to make the surface a bit more fluid
>when hot. Worth a try.
>
>Roger Graham, near Gerringong, Australia
>
>http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rogergraham
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Edouard Bastarache on sun 6 jul 03
Hello John,
(Green) Chromium (III) Oxide,
CAS # 1308-38-9
mf =Cr2O3
has many synonyms:
-Anadomis Green,
-Anhydride Chromique (French),
-Casalis Green,
-Chrome Green,
-Chrome Ocher,
-Chrome Oxide,
-Chrome Oxide Green,
-Chomia,
-Chromic acid,
-Chromic Acid Green,
-Chromic Oxide,
-Chromium Oxide,
-Chromium(III) Oxide,
-Chromium(+3) Oxide,
-Chromium Sesquioxide,
-Chromium(+3)Trioxide,
-C.I. 77288,
-C.I. No.77288,
-C.I. Pigment Green 17,
-Dichromium Trioxide,
-11661 Green,
-Green Chrome Oxide,
-Green Chromic Oxide,
-Green Cinnabar,
-Green Rouge,
-Guigner's Green,
-Leaf Green,
-Lavanox Green Ga,
-Oil Green,
-Oxide of Chromium,
-Ultramarine Green.
So, make your choice.
"Ils sont fous ces Quebecois"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
;
----- Original Message -----
From: John Rodgers
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2003 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: black stain
> What is "Chromic Oxide"? Same as Chrome Oxide????
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Rodgers
> Birmingham, AL
>
> Roger Graham wrote:
>
> >For Susan, who was asking about a recipe for black stain. Here's a recipe
> >I've used for years under the name "Grebanier's Black". I found it in
Joseph
> >Grebanier's book on Chinese Stoneware Glazes.
> >
> >The recipe:
> > Black iron oxide = 43
> >Manganese dioxide = 18
> >Cobalt oxide = 15
> >Nickel oxide = 15
> >Chromic oxide = 9
> >
> >Grind it thoroughly in a mortar for a long time. On its own, it's good
for
> >dense black brushwork, or for labelling on glaze sample tests
> >
> >More recently, I've been using this black mix as a surface wash over
carved
> >work, with the addition of 50 parts of Frit 3134 to make it stick, and 3
> >parts of bentonite to try and keep it in suspension. The result has been
a
> >delightful semi-matt dense black which doesn't obscure the details of a
> >carving. Just mix it very thin and watery, and flood it on with a soft
> >brush.
> >
> >Mostly it has been coming out exactly as I want it (cone 10 reduction),
but
> >just sometimes the surface has been rough and scratchy. Haven't resolved
> >this problem yet, but a temporary fix has been to add a very light mist
of a
> >clear glaze, sprayed over the black, to make the surface a bit more fluid
> >when hot. Worth a try.
> >
> >Roger Graham, near Gerringong, Australia
> >
> >http://members.optusnet.com.au/~rogergraham
> >
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Dan Saultman on wed 22 aug 07
Eric,
Just recently I had a conversation with John Britt about this very
stain.
He said that the stain appears to be designed for Cone 10, hence the
feldspar.
He did not comment on the other non-colorants.
For me, I modified it to use it as a wipe-off stain for Cone 04
terracotta.
I added 30% gerstley borate or it's modern substitute to make it fuse
at my desired temperature.
John said further, that adding a frit would work to make it melt or
adhere as well.
I have had experiences with stains that were colorants only. Unless
they were applied wet to bone-dry greenware they tended to brush right
off after firing. (I fired to cone 6 for years).
Therefore your initial Hopper stain recipe needs adjustments, adding a
frit or GB for your temperature range, and testing with as much as 50%
of either. The higher the addition the glossier it will become.
Good luck
Dan
Dan Saultman
Fine-Art Pottery
Detroit
http://www.saultman.com
On Aug 22, 2007, at 9:48 PM, Eric Suchman wrote:
> I was wondering about this stain. It is Hopper's black. How will it
> do under ^6 Shino? or anything else for that matter. The other
> stain that I have is Sybil's black and it is only colorants where the
> Hopper stain has kaolin, silica ,and feldspar. I am wondering if
> these additions will give the stain some 'body' where Sybil's would
> be simply a colorant.
> Hopper's:
> Iron 20.
> Manganese dioxide 20.
> Cobalt oxide 20.
> Chromium oxide 20.
> Kaolin 8.
> Feldspar 8.
> Silica 4.
>
> Sybil's:
> Copper oxide 24.
> Cobalt oxide 2.
> Manganese dioxide 49.
> Nickel oxide 5.
> Iron oxide 20.
> Thanks,
> Eric in Oceanside
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Eric Suchman on wed 22 aug 07
I was wondering about this stain. It is Hopper's black. How will it
do under ^6 Shino? or anything else for that matter. The other
stain that I have is Sybil's black and it is only colorants where the
Hopper stain has kaolin, silica ,and feldspar. I am wondering if
these additions will give the stain some 'body' where Sybil's would
be simply a colorant.
Hopper's:
Iron 20.
Manganese dioxide 20.
Cobalt oxide 20.
Chromium oxide 20.
Kaolin 8.
Feldspar 8.
Silica 4.
Sybil's:
Copper oxide 24.
Cobalt oxide 2.
Manganese dioxide 49.
Nickel oxide 5.
Iron oxide 20.
Thanks,
Eric in Oceanside
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