Lois Ruben Aronow on sun 6 jul 03
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 14:26:24 -0500, you wrote:
>Cheryl wrote:
>Can never create a catchy phrase and market clay work as dearly as =
glass.
>Everyone has used clay in school at some point in time - ie common.
>Almost no one has ever used glass - ie mystical.
>
>It's no mystery to me.....Ya get some money and then you buy yourself a =
glass shop...Get some poor people to work there for pittance....You are =
done
> Clay needs only mud and a human as it's basis
Ah Rush - your ignorance once again rears it's ugly head.
first off, the material used for glass are far more expensive than
those used for clay. You can't make glass in your basement. People
work in teams. Ever heard of teamwork, Rush?
I know more potters who pay shop assistants a pittance, or, worse yet,
nothing. They work in exchange for space. =20
So get yer head out of your ass.
************
www.loisaronow.com
=46ine Craft Porcelain and Pottery
***************************************
Lois Ruben Aronow
Modern Porcelain and Tableware
http://www.loisaronow.com=20
artimator on sun 6 jul 03
Cheryl wrote:
Can never create a catchy phrase and market clay work as dearly as =
glass.
Everyone has used clay in school at some point in time - ie common.
Almost no one has ever used glass - ie mystical.
It's no mystery to me.....Ya get some money and then you buy yourself a =
glass shop...Get some poor people to work there for pittance....You are =
done
Clay needs only mud and a human as it's basis
Rush
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
http://artimator.com
rush@artimator.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/texasceramics/
Artimator Galleries
2420 Briarwood Ln.
Carrollton, TX 75006
972-841-1857
Zoe Paddy Johnson on mon 7 jul 03
The rock and roll lifestyle is largely Chihuly and all the artists he has
trained at Pilchuck. The rock and roll aspect is really reinforced by
Chihuly and all of his assistants. And most glass artists have at least
been through Pilchuck (even me). Those guys party 18 hours a day and
make glass about the same amount of time. It is a very, um, vigorous
lifestyle. Chihuly is a truly amazing character who is much bigger than
life.
Glass materials don't have to be expensive (sand, oxides), but the
equipment for hot glass, ie, blown glass is very expensive by the time you
get a furnace, glory hole, lehr along with blowpipes, punties, etc, plus
the cold working gear such as grinders, polishers, sandblasters, one is
looking at investment of beaucoup bucks. Plus, the month to month utilitiy
bill for keeping the furnace running 24/7 and the lehr going a substantial
part of the time is astounding. Warm glass (kiln worked or fused glass)
and stained glass (cold glass) don't require nearly the investment in
equipment, but the latest fad in warm glass, dichroic glass, can be quite
pricey and is sold by the square inch. It is also becoming quite
repetitive. The liability issues associated with functional glass are
absolutely horrifying.
At the most recent NM Arts and Glass Fair, most of the glass folks were
doing warm glass with dichroic inclusions. It all looked very similar.
There was only one blower and not a very playful one at that and a couple
if stained glass folks, but oodles of dichroic fused glass...
ZoeJ, no longer a glass artist
--On Sunday, July 06, 2003 7:13 PM -0400 Lois Ruben Aronow
wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 14:26:24 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> Cheryl wrote:
>> Can never create a catchy phrase and market clay work as dearly as glass.
>> Everyone has used clay in school at some point in time - ie common.
>> Almost no one has ever used glass - ie mystical.
>>
>> It's no mystery to me.....Ya get some money and then you buy yourself a
>> glass shop...Get some poor people to work there for pittance....You are
>> done Clay needs only mud and a human as it's basis
> Ah Rush - your ignorance once again rears it's ugly head.
>
> first off, the material used for glass are far more expensive than
> those used for clay. You can't make glass in your basement. People
> work in teams. Ever heard of teamwork, Rush?
>
> I know more potters who pay shop assistants a pittance, or, worse yet,
> nothing. They work in exchange for space.
>
> So get yer head out of your ass.
>
>
>
> ************
> www.loisaronow.com
> Fine Craft Porcelain and Pottery
>
>
> ***************************************
> Lois Ruben Aronow
> Modern Porcelain and Tableware
> http://www.loisaronow.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
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Lois Ruben Aronow on mon 7 jul 03
Urban Glass, which is on scale with Pilchuk, is not far from me. They
close in the summer because of obvious reasons - the heat. I don't
know a whole lot of potters who can afford to have down time like
that.
I have an ex-potter friend who now does the most amazing fused glass.
Very modern and creative. I do know that her loss rate is about the
same as a potters, and her materials cost much more. I have also been
seeing alot of lamp-worked glass lately. A very old art, and many
people are doing it in a very modern way.
There is a gallery near my house that is largely blown glass. They
carry very little clay - the owner only like crystal glazes, and the
ones she carries are poorly executed. Regardless, she has a great eye
for glass, and some of the colors and forms are astounding. =20
I don't know why potters seem to have such an aversion to glass
artists. After all, they are different media. Can't we all just sit
back and admire the beauty (and craftsmanship) of other peoples work
without unleashing what seems to be a green-eyes monster>
************
www.loisaronow.com
=46ine Craft Porcelain and Pottery
***************************************
Lois Ruben Aronow
Modern Porcelain and Tableware
http://www.loisaronow.com=20
Lois Ruben Aronow on mon 7 jul 03
>Actually I find this quite entertaining. Why one art form would need to
>bitch and moan about another is beyond me. In fact I believe Arti =
showed
>his ass a few years ago about glass artists.
*I* don't find it entertaining. There is no reason to personally
attack someone just because you disagree with their opinions. It's
childish. In fact, my own children don't even do that. I am taking
my name out of the subject line because ther is no reason this should
be about ME.
>
>And once again I will state, I worked very close with one. He was and =
is a
>fine artist. The experience I drew from it stayed with me. It's called
>appreciation. Everyone say it with me APPRECIATION. I've seen lots of =
work
>that I don't like, but I appreciate it. Why rip on someone because they=
do
>it differently.
Indeed. The differences are what makes it interesting. IMHO, what
makes a mature artist is one who can appreciate the craftsmanship and
work that went into a piece, or a body of work, and appreciate it,
without basing you opinion on whether you like the work or not. There
is plenty or work out there that I find butt ugly, but man, some of
the attention to detail and craftsmanship is phenomenal. =20
>
>"It's no mystery to me.....Ya get some money and then you buy yourself a
>glass shop...Get some poor people to work there for pittance....You are =
done
> Clay needs only mud and a human as it's basis"
>
>Really, so you make your own clay? And your kiln is plugged into your =
what?
>And your chemicals? No one was paid to provide those, were they?
>Equipment. You built it I assume, since no one was paid. Oh wait, you =
work
>in a school. So instead of buying a shop you rent it. Someone else =
fire
>your kilns? Make a list of all the things you don't do before you run =
down
>what other people do.
And then there are the unpaid interns who do the grunt work.....
>
>I worked with glass. It's as difficult as clay. Takes just as much =
skill
>as clay. Many glass blowers work alone and there are just as many =
potters
>who do not.
************
www.loisaronow.com
=46ine Craft Porcelain and Pottery
***************************************
Lois Ruben Aronow
Modern Porcelain and Tableware
http://www.loisaronow.com=20
Bobbruch1@AOL.COM on tue 8 jul 03
<<<more expensive than those used for clay. You can't make glass in your basement.
People
work in teams.
Glass artists have to keep their kilns going almost all of the time, an
expensive proposition ... although I believe that many of their material costs are
well below those of ceramics - at least that is what I came away with from a
discussion with a glassblower at a local art fair this weekend. I'm not sure
about this, but I think that the firing process for cast glass lasts about a
week. I think that the loss ratio in some parts of the glass casting process
are similar to those in wood firing. Also, many of those kilns are fairly small
by ceramic kiln standards.
Those factors would add significantly to the cost of making glass.
Bob Bruch
Wood Jeanne on tue 8 jul 03
Hi,
> <<<> used for glass are far
> more expensive than those used for clay. You can't
> make glass in your basement.
> People
> work in teams.
I've told this story before, but have a little more to
add.
I teach art in a school for children with problems. My
first year I was surprised at the number of students
who said they were glass blowers, as many had very
little enthusiasm for art or craftsmanship. Later I
found out the only glass they made was bongs.
Then one summer there was an ad in the local paper
that went something like "local glass studio looking
for assistants to train, artistic ability required".
While visiting a friend I saw at the glass studio a
long line of hopeful young applicants with their
portfolios and I'm sure, dreams of an artistic life
with an actual income. Then my friend (the workshop's
landlord) told me the glass studio was a bong studio.
Very lucrative enterprise.
I'm not sure why it made me feel sad.
Jeanne W.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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John Baymore on tue 8 jul 03
Lois,
There is a gallery near my house that is largely blown glass. They
carry very little clay - the owner only like crystal glazes, and the
ones she carries are poorly executed. Regardless, she has a great eye
for glass, and some of the colors and forms are astounding. =3D20
Likely she handles glass and crystals (even poor ones) because they sell
well to the public rigfht now . She's a gallery.... not a museum.
I don't know why potters seem to have such an aversion to glass
artists. After all, they are different media. Can't we all just sit
back and admire the beauty (and craftsmanship) of other peoples work
without unleashing what seems to be a green-eyes monster>
Just to be clear.... since I sort of started the whole "glass" bit that i=
s
taking on a life of it's own........
I have no "aversion" to glass artists. I was holding up what they have
done as a group as a laudable approach. I sit back and admire good work =
in
all media.
Back in my Masssart days I learned to blow glass a tiny little bit
......... since the hot glass studio was right next to the kiln room .=
=
Dan Dailey was actively heading the program back then. It was a great
facility...... exciting stuff happening....... super people in the
department........ and as long as I was working there....figured I ought =
to
take advantage of the opportunity. Haven't blown since I stopped teachin=
g
at Massart.....YEARS ago. Be fun to try again..... but not really an
option for me right now....life is already full and a half .
My sentiment is that we can learn a LOT about =
getting better rewarded for our efforts in clay if we look at some of the=
the reasons that glass is hot (no pun intended ) with the public.
I don't think it is totally an inherent quality of the material
itself. Or the LACK of any inherent qualities in clay. I think some of=
it has been created by the actions of the artists as a generalized whole.=
=
best,
................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086-5812 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http:\\www.JohnBaymore.com
603-654-2752 (studio)
800-900-1110 (studio)
"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop: August 15-25,
2003"
Lois Ruben Aronow on tue 8 jul 03
Hey - everyone's gotta make a living... ;-)
Personally, I've been trying to get around to throwing a bong for a
dear friend who is turning 60 soon. I'm not quite sure where to
start, but I'm really looking forward to doing it.
>While visiting a friend I saw at the glass studio a
>long line of hopeful young applicants with their
>portfolios and I'm sure, dreams of an artistic life
>with an actual income. Then my friend (the workshop's
>landlord) told me the glass studio was a bong studio.
>Very lucrative enterprise.
>I'm not sure why it made me feel sad.
>Jeanne W.
************
www.loisaronow.com
=46ine Craft Porcelain and Pottery
***************************************
Lois Ruben Aronow
Modern Porcelain and Tableware
http://www.loisaronow.com=20
Arnold Howard on tue 8 jul 03
I attended a glass show last month in Seattle. The people I met were
fanatical about hot glass. It is their passion. It is popular in Europe,
too.
In the mid-eighties, kiln-fired glass art was almost unheard of,
especially glass fusing. The latest trend in glass seems to be lamp
working (or glass blowing). Potters would love glass if they had the
time to explore it.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
www.paragonweb.com
From: John Baymore
My sentiment is that we can learn a LOT about
getting better rewarded for our efforts in clay if we look at some of
the
the reasons that glass is hot (no pun intended ) with the public.
I don't think it is totally an inherent quality of the material
itself. Or the LACK of any inherent qualities in clay. I think some
of
it has been created by the actions of the artists as a generalized
whole.
chris clarke on tue 8 jul 03
'There is no reason to personally
attack someone just because you disagree with their opinions.'
I was not personally attacking Arti, just stating a fact in a crude sort of
way. Maybe my choice of words were harsh. I like Arti a great deal, he's
quite fun. And I really don't think this sort of banter hurts anyone.
Nothing personal.
"IMHO, what
makes a mature artist is one who can appreciate the craftsmanship and
work that went into a piece, or a body of work, and appreciate it,
without basing you opinion on whether you like the work or not"
Sorry, but I think everything is based on an initial feeling of like or
dislike. What I was saying was that appreciation is the key. I believe you
used the words butt ugly, that's dislike.
If I offended, I'm really sorry. I am a bit crude at times, very few times
as I post little. I was just offering an opinion. I don't think Rush takes
offence at anything. In fact, I think he's the closest thing to a duck
there is, just let's it roll.
chris
temecula, california
chris@ccpots.com
http://www.ccpots.com
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