John Norris on mon 7 jul 03
Hi Phil, et al
Thanks for the response.
I think we should share what is dramatic about clay.
I think a slogan is a good marketing tool.
I was hoping my observation about how some of our glass "brothers and sis=
ters"
market themselves, would be helpful in coming up with a slogan. (I did
not intend to really get into a Glass Vs Clay thing...although my "Clay:
the other glass" was meant to stir the pot. :-)
While different people have different ideas as to what is dramatic/has me=
rit,
there are probably some Jungian or evolutionary things that are universal=
.
There are probably some cultural ones that at least temporarily cross la=
rge
numbers of people.
A slogan might tap into something folks feel is dramatic.
If we got folks using the slogan on their email sigs, websites, business
material, bumper stickers, t-shirts, etc...and did so for a good length
of time, we just might raise some awareness. After all, the advertising
folks say you need to see an ad several times before it really registers.=
Thanks,
John
john-norris.net
And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.
Alice's Restaurant
By Arlo Guthrie
(http://www.arlo.net/lyrics/alices.shtml)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 10:38:39 -0700
From: pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET
Subject: Re: Got Clay? - "Clay: The other glass" or, Glass : the 'other'
Clay...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi John,
Nice mention here...(I just woke up...hope I will make
'sense'!)
I think part of the mystique may lie in how 'blown' Glass
evolve on the end of a 'stick' ( or tube rather) which
distances the effect the maker is having while he or she is
having it...I mean seperates them in a way as lends
something to the (percieved) mystique of process. They do
not even 'touch' it in effect ( at that phase of the
rituals)...and generally, neither is anything else in the
larger markets of products ( 'touched')...other than some
'produce' maybe...
But then too, Blacksmithing (and Metal Casting and for that
matter, or various Radiological occupation, and Biology
investigations of the Cee-Dee-Cee for that matter,) enjoy
many tongs and the like to keep a polite 'distance' from
one's otherwise immediate Work, and no one, so far as the
public as such is concerned, could care if their 'mystique'
in doing so, sunk or fell from the face of the Earth. So
that as 'that' maybe isn't it...
Overall, I believe the aspiration of enticeing the public to
re-consider Clay, or to do so in a way in which they may
apprehend it as a peer with blown, cast or whatever of Glass
Artifacts...is hopeless.
There is no area of anything in which a similar
accomplishment, that is of enticeing the public to some
wholesome or broader appreciation, or remedials thereto, has
any precedent...or none I know of anyway...
or none as got very far...or any farther than they were
willing to go.
It is fun to try and imagine slogans or mottos and the like,
and there have been some good ones in the thread so far. And
I like the excercise and whisps of hope and exploration of
wondering about this...
For me, the two ( Clay & Glass) enjoy en equal source of
'drama' all through their getting made, and afterwards. Yet
too for me, I will say I Love 'Clay' more than Glass...but I
do love them both, or my visions and ideas of both,
anyway...
Yet I can see how others may not find it so...
The Glassman has a different drama as a piece is encouraged
to form, or then cools one-at-a-time, or to await further
attentions, whilst the Ceramic Artists, for whom all is
similar enough in some ways maybe, untill, when opening the
Kiln, the Ceramic Artist usually has something in that
moment as is many times that drama all-at-once.
If I look at the overwhelming preponderance of what the
public, as an abstract-general-entity-thing actually 'buys',
there seem to be a variety of ways 'merit' must be construed
by them. And 'drama' (or 'merit') as such, is not enough in
any of it's forms.
A can-of-tuna has more visceral 'drama' in my apprehension
than the Cars they drive, but they may not find it 'so' in
their experience.
I would be moved to elect that scratched Burl Ives record
from the thrift-store '25Cent' bin, whilst a demur the
newest 'fity-cent' cee-dee at the mall where I would never
be anyway. So...the drama must defer to something particular
as is in them already as drama...it is maybe in the way
dramas connect...affirm, comfort or conflict in ways they
like to have conflcted, as stimulates, in any particular
case, something emotional to or in them, which they wish to
experience having stimulated...and in more-or-less just the
'right' way.
Which of course we know, and is what we are wondering
about...
Getting long...sorry!
Best!
Phil
lasvegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Norris"
****Snipped*****
I agree that glass work is almost inherently dramatic and
lesser known (mysterious)
than clay. (...and maybe more dramatic than clay.)
However, watching a piece being annealed, or polished, or
slumped, or sandblasted,
is not so dramatic/mysterious.
I think one could bring attention to those exciting aspects
of clay in order
to appeal to a certain demographic.
OK, just to show you all that I have been working on this...
Clay: The other glass.
Clay: 2300 degrees can't be wrong
...not doing to well 'tho.
More complete URL for Ad Slogans:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/ad-slogan.htm
John
john-norris.net
>-- Original Message --
>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 23:56:48 -0700
>From: "John Norris"
>Subject: Re: Got Clay? - Glass Artists / Rock Stars
>Reply-To: john@john-norris.net
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>
>
>One thing that impressed me was all the "razzle-dazzle"
that goes on now
>in the glass studios and the documentaries I've seen.
Maybe it is a Pilchuck
>/ Chihuly thing, but the music, people dancing around, a
sense of danger.
> The process seems exciting and fun. That stuff really
draws folks in.
>
>I suppose in the 70's the glass artist cultivated an image
as a meticulus
>craftsperson, working in a zen like state, effortlessly
creating the Platonic
>Vase...now they seem to be more like rock stars.
>
>(Don't get me wrong, for an artist both are valid
approaches.)
>
>Throwing on the wheel, a kiln going full tilt, these can be
shown to be
>pretty exciting.
>
>
>"Clay- it's what's for breakfast"
>"Clay- not only a floor wax, but also a dessert topping"
>
>...Probably should check the Slogan How To:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/ad-slogan3.htm
>
>John (Neither a rock star nor a 70's studio glass
historian)
>
>john-norris.net
>(hmm...should have posted tonight...oh, well, too late.)
>
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 07:25:34 -0700
>From: Bob Nicholson
>Subject: Re: Got Clay?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" ;
format=3D"flowed"
>
>>John Baymore said:
>>I think potters can learn a lot by looking at what glass
artists in general
>>have done
>>about "market positioning" their work in the public
perception. That
would
>>go a long
>>way to improving the lot of the clayworker in
general.>>>>>>
>>
>>John is right about this. The glass community has done a
lot to promote
>>their work and the production of hot glass shops in
general. There are
>>other places to look, too - not just glass.
>
>Hmmm... can anyone expand on this? How has the glass
community
>promoted their work in ways that ceramic artists haven't?
>
>
>
>*****
>Art, Information, and Ceramics.
>http://www.john-norris.net
>*****
>
*****
Art, Information, and Ceramics.
http://www.john-norris.net
*****
____________________________________________________________
__________________
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*****
Art, Information, and Ceramics.
http://www.john-norris.net
*****
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 7 jul 03
Hi John,
Nice mention here...(I just woke up...hope I will make
'sense'!)
I think part of the mystique may lie in how 'blown' Glass
evolve on the end of a 'stick' ( or tube rather) which
distances the effect the maker is having while he or she is
having it...I mean seperates them in a way as lends
something to the (percieved) mystique of process. They do
not even 'touch' it in effect ( at that phase of the
rituals)...and generally, neither is anything else in the
larger markets of products ( 'touched')...other than some
'produce' maybe...
But then too, Blacksmithing (and Metal Casting and for that
matter, or various Radiological occupation, and Biology
investigations of the Cee-Dee-Cee for that matter,) enjoy
many tongs and the like to keep a polite 'distance' from
one's otherwise immediate Work, and no one, so far as the
public as such is concerned, could care if their 'mystique'
in doing so, sunk or fell from the face of the Earth. So
that as 'that' maybe isn't it...
Overall, I believe the aspiration of enticeing the public to
re-consider Clay, or to do so in a way in which they may
apprehend it as a peer with blown, cast or whatever of Glass
Artifacts...is hopeless.
There is no area of anything in which a similar
accomplishment, that is of enticeing the public to some
wholesome or broader appreciation, or remedials thereto, has
any precedent...or none I know of anyway...
or none as got very far...or any farther than they were
willing to go.
It is fun to try and imagine slogans or mottos and the like,
and there have been some good ones in the thread so far. And
I like the excercise and whisps of hope and exploration of
wondering about this...
For me, the two ( Clay & Glass) enjoy en equal source of
'drama' all through their getting made, and afterwards. Yet
too for me, I will say I Love 'Clay' more than Glass...but I
do love them both, or my visions and ideas of both,
anyway...
Yet I can see how others may not find it so...
The Glassman has a different drama as a piece is encouraged
to form, or then cools one-at-a-time, or to await further
attentions, whilst the Ceramic Artists, for whom all is
similar enough in some ways maybe, untill, when opening the
Kiln, the Ceramic Artist usually has something in that
moment as is many times that drama all-at-once.
If I look at the overwhelming preponderance of what the
public, as an abstract-general-entity-thing actually 'buys',
there seem to be a variety of ways 'merit' must be construed
by them. And 'drama' (or 'merit') as such, is not enough in
any of it's forms.
A can-of-tuna has more visceral 'drama' in my apprehension
than the Cars they drive, but they may not find it 'so' in
their experience.
I would be moved to elect that scratched Burl Ives record
from the thrift-store '25Cent' bin, whilst a demur the
newest 'fity-cent' cee-dee at the mall where I would never
be anyway. So...the drama must defer to something particular
as is in them already as drama...it is maybe in the way
dramas connect...affirm, comfort or conflict in ways they
like to have conflcted, as stimulates, in any particular
case, something emotional to or in them, which they wish to
experience having stimulated...and in more-or-less just the
'right' way.
Which of course we know, and is what we are wondering
about...
Getting long...sorry!
Best!
Phil
lasvegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Norris"
I agree that glass work is almost inherently dramatic and
lesser known (mysterious)
than clay. (...and maybe more dramatic than clay.)
However, watching a piece being annealed, or polished, or
slumped, or sandblasted,
is not so dramatic/mysterious.
I think one could bring attention to those exciting aspects
of clay in order
to appeal to a certain demographic.
OK, just to show you all that I have been working on this...
Clay: The other glass.
Clay: 2300 degrees can't be wrong
...not doing to well 'tho.
More complete URL for Ad Slogans:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/ad-slogan.htm
John
john-norris.net
>-- Original Message --
>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 23:56:48 -0700
>From: "John Norris"
>Subject: Re: Got Clay? - Glass Artists / Rock Stars
>Reply-To: john@john-norris.net
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>
>
>One thing that impressed me was all the "razzle-dazzle"
that goes on now
>in the glass studios and the documentaries I've seen.
Maybe it is a Pilchuck
>/ Chihuly thing, but the music, people dancing around, a
sense of danger.
> The process seems exciting and fun. That stuff really
draws folks in.
>
>I suppose in the 70's the glass artist cultivated an image
as a meticulus
>craftsperson, working in a zen like state, effortlessly
creating the Platonic
>Vase...now they seem to be more like rock stars.
>
>(Don't get me wrong, for an artist both are valid
approaches.)
>
>Throwing on the wheel, a kiln going full tilt, these can be
shown to be
>pretty exciting.
>
>
>"Clay- it's what's for breakfast"
>"Clay- not only a floor wax, but also a dessert topping"
>
>...Probably should check the Slogan How To:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/ad-slogan3.htm
>
>John (Neither a rock star nor a 70's studio glass
historian)
>
>john-norris.net
>(hmm...should have posted tonight...oh, well, too late.)
>
>
>Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 07:25:34 -0700
>From: Bob Nicholson
>Subject: Re: Got Clay?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ;
format="flowed"
>
>>John Baymore said:
>>I think potters can learn a lot by looking at what glass
artists in general
>>have done
>>about "market positioning" their work in the public
perception. That
would
>>go a long
>>way to improving the lot of the clayworker in
general.>>>>>>
>>
>>John is right about this. The glass community has done a
lot to promote
>>their work and the production of hot glass shops in
general. There are
>>other places to look, too - not just glass.
>
>Hmmm... can anyone expand on this? How has the glass
community
>promoted their work in ways that ceramic artists haven't?
>
>
>
>*****
>Art, Information, and Ceramics.
>http://www.john-norris.net
>*****
>
*****
Art, Information, and Ceramics.
http://www.john-norris.net
*****
____________________________________________________________
__________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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