Cindi Anderson on tue 8 jul 03
Then there is the part of me that wonders how in touch the average Japanese
person really is with pottery. I spent a lot of time over there with
business people (NEC, Hitachi employees). Art was not very big on their
minds. Yes, they are probably more steeped in the tradition of it than the
average American. They probably have an overall general respect for it,
subconsiously if not consciously. But things are changing over there very
quickly. The culture is changing fast, traditions are changing, etc. None
of the Japanese people I was with was interested in the pot I bought in
Kyoto. (But their museums were full of pottery, most of it thousands of
years old.) This is not to say that the pottery community is not strong in
Japan, it may well be. But in business I found that most American
perceptions of the Japanese are not accurate, and there is probably some
truth to that in the art world too.
Cindi
Fremont, CA
----- Original Message -----
> Question: Why don't we recognize that the political/social climate in
Japan
> may have contributed to the status of the arts there?
Bobbruch1@AOL.COM on wed 9 jul 03
<<<<<the average Japanese person really is with pottery. I spent a lot of time over
there with business people (NEC, Hitachi employees). Art was not very big on
their minds. Yes, they are probably more steeped in the tradition of it than
the average American. They probably have an overall general respect for it,
subconsciously if not consciously. But things are changing over there very
quickly. The culture is changing fast, traditions are changing, etc.
A number of years ago, I was in Tokyo on a business trip and had to fly to
Hiroshima with a Japanese colleague. As we were getting a cab at the airport,
a person walked by who was dressed in "traditional" Japanese clothing, and my
colleague commented that he was a famous potter. I don't think he knew of my
interest in clay, so the comment came out of the blue. Just wonder how many
North American or European businessmen would know of the names of well known
potters, let alone recognize them on sight.
Bob Bruch
John Baymore on wed 9 jul 03
Jeff,
Thanks for the kind words on my last post!
Why don't we recognize that the political/social climate in Japan
may have contributed to the status of the arts there?
That happens in any culture. The status of the arts in the USA right now=
are also impacted by the general cultural directions. Art does not exist=
in a vacume. Mr. Kincaid is doing OK .
As I mentioned .... there are all SORTS of factors that influenced the
development of Japanese art and the appreciation for that art. Literally=
you could write a book on it. =
For example...... Shinto ....the true indigenous religion of Japan.......=
is a naturistic religion. Due in part to this background, the Japanese
generally LOVE the natural world. That is why so many of their images an=
d
patterns allude to or depict nature. That is also why they have a
reverence and affinity for unrefined, natural materials.....with all thei=
r
varigation, imperfection and so on. That basic cultural "norm"..........=
.
built into the collective psyche over thousands of years and that did not=
come from art but from religion....... in a sense SET the stage and allow=
ed
the great appreciation for wares such as those from Bizen and
Shigaraki..... with their rough impure clays, the natural fly ash, and th=
e
scorch from the firings. Those wares are all ABOUT natural materials and=
processes.
Looking at a comment from another thread here on CLAYART...... the commen=
ts
about the "problem" of chocolate goobers dropping off the salt kiln arch
onto the pots..... that Tony C. in another post called "Potter's Tears" a=
nd
said he charged MORE for........... in Japan, such events that are a=
natural product of things like firing with wood are more often looked on =
as
simply natural and fitting, part of the process, and sometimes blessings
from the gods. They aren't looked at as a PROBLEM.
Here in the USA......... if a glaze runs and the foot has to be heavily
ground...... usually the potter either throws the piece out, uses it in
his/her own kitchen, or calls it a second and discounts the price heavily=
. =
In Japan....... ground bottoms on very expensive "firsts" are quite commo=
n.
I have a beautiful Matsuzaki Ken oribe glazed piece that had to be heavi=
ly
ground because of the very fluid green glaze. The grinding is done
carefully and with craftsmanship. In the West....... we'd likely work on=
the fluidity of the glaze so that it did not run. We'd probably accept a=
slight change in the visual character of the glaze if we could just stop =
it
from running. In Japan........ you'd more likely just grind the
foot......... because to change the glaze character would destroy it's tr=
ue
beauty.
It is a different world view.
The arts that flourish/ed there are not the arts of individualism/democra=
cy
but more the
product of a repressed social atmosphere. In other words, if you, as a
citizen, do not have the right to speak your mind, let alone raise your
voice, maybe you would appreciate artifacts that are similar in style, i.=
e.
artifacts that don't obviously state their opinions, but rather, do so
quitely, much like a pot.
There is no question that Japanese culture has a past history of great
violence and repression.....and that background of course left it's
vestiges on current culture. The ready advent and adoption of Buddhism i=
n
Japan when it arrived might also reflect this...... since it looks inward=
not outward. As you say, many of the arts and cultural activities that a=
re
highly revered in Japan are somewhat the arts of or for the more private
home......... =
flower arranging, Chado
, calligraphy, poetry, =
pottery, fabric dying, woodworking, metalsmithing, and so on. =
Outspoken and "political" art of any kind was overtly controlled by the
ruling faction....with the severest of penalties for infractions. There
was plenty of political art......... but for the most part it was
"officially sanctioned" stuff. You are =
correct that some peasant typically would not whip up a print showing the=
local warlord as a horse's butt . Or, if he did,..... he never made a=
second one.
Eventually, over time, this kind of authoritatian state influence evolved=
into a general culture that felt that conforming to the social norm was t=
he
acceptable thing to do........ =
llong after the overt physical threat was gone.
If you are interested in this kind of thing...... research the concept of=
"WA" .... or "harmony". Disturbing the "Wa" is something that, in genera=
l,
the Japanese feel is a very bad thing to do. So they go to great lengths=
not to do that, even today. =
If you've seen the TV mini-series "Shogun" aired YEARS ago (the whole
series....not the single video cassette version) ....... the scene in whi=
ch
a villager willingly gives his life to cut down Blackthorn's =
aging pheasant meat is based on the concept of "Wa". Blackthorn's actio=
ns
and specific orders had disturbed the "Wa" of the household and
neighborhood. The villager felt restoring the "Wa" was worth his own lif=
e
so that for the others "Wa" was restored. Part of the continuing plot
involves Blackthorn's attempts to really understand this seemingly (to hi=
m)
bizzare event....... which causes him great anguish for a long time.
To state that the arts are better appreciated in Japan maybe true, to a
degree, but I do think the type of art being appreciated needs to be take=
n
into account.
Taken in that light.... I'd have to say that the arts here ARE highly
appreciated. Disney and the "advertising machine" and TV and such have h=
ad
a huge impact on our culture........ and have defined a lot about what is=
"good" in the arts in a pretty vast public mind .
Perhaps the reason why art appreciation in Japan differs from art
appreciation in the western world may also involve not so much the art
literacy of the viewer, but rather, the willingness of the viewer to allo=
w
others to make artistic judgements on their behalf. =
Reasonable hypothesis. That happens in ANY culture. In our culture we
have the show jurors, and magazine editors, and workshop leaders, and
CLAYART writers, and so on "telling" us what are good pots or good artist=
s.
But the Japanese preservation of Wa would account for someone not making=
a
public statement about the fact that he/she does not like a particular
artist or piece. And in that sense, the Japanese could SEEM to come acro=
ss
as in complete agreement when in fact they aren't really. =
The Japanese have terms that relate to this ....... =
There is the "public face" which is called "tatemai"......... and the
"private face" which is "honne". Tatemai (tah-tay-my) is how you presen=
t
something to the outward world so as to preserve face for everyone. It i=
s
the "social lubricant" coated persona. Honne (hoan-nay) is your real and=
very private feelings on the matter.
A westerner will infrequently see honne . It typically takes a long
relationship with a Japanese =
person before they will reveal true feelings overtly. =
In democratic societies individuals are taught to repect their own voice,=
respect their own
judgements. With such an attitude one might be less inclined to "follow"
the
judgement set forth in a work of art,i.e. the viewer might be more willin=
g
to say "that's crap" and less willing to allow an artist the opportunity =
to
say "consider this as art".
I think the Japanese ......... at least today...... can't speak about tho=
se
of a century or more ago ......... are very MUCH taught to respect
themselves and their own feelings and judgements. In fact, that is prett=
y
much the whole concept behind what is often refered to in the West as
"face". But, unlike many westerners today, they are ALSO taught to great=
ly
respect OTHERS "face".... and that doing something to another that would
cause "shame" is a pretty darn bad thing....and destroys your OWN "face"
too. So they tend not to do things that would or even COULD embarrass
others publically. They will find other ways to communicate what they ne=
ed
to....... much more subtle ways. There are culturally acceptable ways to=
communicate unpleasant things that preserve "face" on both sides.
The critics in Japan have made a fine art out of saying "That's Crap!"
..... in the most unoffending, obtuse, and inoffensive way possible . =
To a westerner, unless you have done some language and cultural study....=
.
these messages =
are often quite invisible. For example, the American saying "If you don'=
t
have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." could VERY well ha=
ve
been coined by a Japanese . That whole concept is SO Japanese! So if=
a
key person does not say anything about your latest exhibition...........
you might well take that as a poor review.
The phrase meaning literally "That's difficult" in Japanese often REALLY
means a flat out and decisive "NO" and also that you've placed the speake=
r
in an uncomfortable, and possibly untennable position. If it is preceede=
d
by a sucking inhale through the teeth....... you KNOW that is the caes >.
But that is all you'll ever hear on the subject. So as a Japanese, if y=
ou
wanted a Depato (Department Store....important cultural centers in Japan
and MAJOR exhibition venues) to handle your work and you got that
answer....... you're way, WAY out of luck. =
So as a Japanese potter the odds of you just walking up to a Depato manag=
er
and overtly saying something like "Want to handle my pots"...... would
likely NOT be the way it would be approached. That would put the Depato
person in the possible position of having to say "no"..... and that woul=
d
destroy BOTH of your "faces" and kick "wa" out the window. Bad stuff. Y=
ou
would have created a social faux pas. So the relationship with the store=
would be done far more obtusely and over more time ...and often with a=
go between. (Sometimes the "go between" is the potter's sensei.) This
kind of time consuming stuff often drives American business men NUTS in
Japan .
Learning to "read" this stuff is really hard as a gaijin (foreigner). It=
has taken me YEARS of study and I have just barely scratched the surface =
at
all. I know that I need to be FAR more fluent in the language than I
already am to really get a solid grasp on it....... and languages are not=
a
strong point for me .
In the USA....... we'd probably more typically just say...... "This stuff=
's
crap....how did he/she get this show?"......... and the feelings of the
artist, his family and friends, others overhearing it or reading it, and =
so
on be da**ed. Because it is MY opinion and I have a right to it and I al=
so
have a right to say it.
Here, the rights and views of the individual are considered highly
important...... more so than the expectations or feelings of the "group".=
=
That kind of HUGE difference in basic thinking is why inter-cultural
misunderstandings (and sometimes wars) tend to happen. =
I do have to say here that I have found the attention to other's feelings=
and the preservation of "Wa" a refreshing thing when I have been in Japan=
. =
It has been a bit "jarring" upon return.
Hamada Shoji said that trying to use some sort of external measure is
unimportant, and that =
the pots he liked.... those were the good pots for him. This kind of goe=
s
along with Bernard Leach's comments about "Thinking nakedly" as opposed =
to
liking what you are taught to like. These kinds of concepts formed some =
of
the foundation of their aesthetic values and also the Mingei movement. I=
have found that most Japanese have pretty discriminating eyes when it com=
es
to pots but that they are NOT universal by any means in the type of pots
that they personally like. =
Are the Japanese just simply following the "norms" of their culture which=
are dictated by someone else......or is it somehow idividually generated?=
=
God only knows?
At one level the impact and importance of tradition to them IS impactin=
g
some of their viewpoint. But are any of us free of our own culture's
norms? Do I think that they have a "discriminating eye" simply because I=
myself am just following that same externally generated lead that I have
somehow assimilated from their culture........... couldn't tell you . =
=
A thought on attire: I was taught that a guy wears a suit, or a jacket,
when
going out to show respect for the event (if it deserves repect). If we as=
k
the public to respect our work shouldn't we, in turn, do that which
indicates that we respect it? The last time I did a show I wore a jacket
each day. I think my work
deserves respect, I think I communicate that fact by dressing approriatel=
y.
Yeah... I agree that the dress things is often about communicating
something about "values".
Having had the great pleasure of meeting and visiting Shimaoka-sensei
while in Japan in 96, since then whenever he has a show at the Pucker
Gallery in Boston..... I go to the openings. Out of respect, I weat a
suit. Which for me doesn't get worn often .
Usually if another potter is there also ....AND he or she is dressed in=
that kind of manner..... in talking with them I usually find out that the=
y
have some conncetion themselves to Japan.
I still haven't made that change in my own show openings or in doing
workshops here though. It is a tough thing to break cultural norms in AN=
Y
culture.... ALL cultures promote and value social conformity. For
example, being in a suit and tie for NCECA probably would make you feel
like a square peg in a round hole . The cultural norem for potters he=
re
in the USA is pretty casual dress. So sometimes dress selection is about=
"conformity" more than "values" and "respect". Looking at the typical
teenage youth "rebellion" against the dress (and such) of their parent's=
generation........ they pretty much all dress alike. It is a form of
"groupism". Just a differnt group. All us 60's "hippy-types" sure did
. As do the current crop of pierced, tatooed, and baggy pants crowd. =
As did the flappers and zoot suit-ers. The more things change the more
they stay the same .
At the opening ceremony of the International Wood Fire Festival in Japan
last summer we were told to dress "casual"......with a lot of us wearing
the red Festival T-shirts that they had given us. But pretty much all th=
e
"dignitaries" were decked out in suit and tie. And strangely enough.....=
.
I felt quite "underdressed" in that situation....... given the context. =
I
think I have a little bit of a case of "When in Rome......" in that
regard.
best,
.......................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086-5812 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http:\\www.JohnBaymore.com
603-654-2752 (studio)
800-900-1110 (studio)
"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop: August 15 - 24,
2003"
Longtin, Jeff on wed 9 jul 03
Wow! Quite the thorough response John!
Thank you.
In preparing to respond to Lee's posting I've spent the morning perusing
japan-guide.com. (a great website btw) and I realize I'm somewhat
ill-informed. Obviously, I'm not in a position to debate Japanese culture so
I'll leave that one alone. The one point I would like to make, however, is
simply this: while we, as potters in the United States, find our society not
very supportive of our efforts I think it is better for us to examine our
culture and ourselves rather than look to other cultures for guidance. Yes,
we can learn from Japan and its treatment of potters, however, as both you
and Lee point out, it is a very different situation over there and in many
ways not that applicable to our situation.
The thread had started with a "what can we do to change things" sort of
direction and then took a "What are THEY doing better
than us" kind of tone (Glass artists/Japan). IMHO I don't think we need to
look at others for guidance, rather, I think we need to look at what we do
well, and what we don't do well, to better understand our place in the
cosmos.
As I write this I realize I've never scene a market survey addressing these
issues. Maybe we could pool our resources and fund a survey that would poll
a specific demographic group. With THAT information maybe we could start to
make some INFORMED decisions about our market and how better to position
ourselves. (Sounds like a great project for a grad student doesn't it?)
Take care
Jeff Longtin
in minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: John Baymore [mailto:JBaymore@COMPUSERVE.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:48 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Got Clay? / Japanese market position
Jeff,
Thanks for the kind words on my last post!
Why don't we recognize that the political/social climate in Japan
may have contributed to the status of the arts there?
That happens in any culture. The status of the arts in the USA right now
are also impacted by the general cultural directions. Art does not exist
in a vacume. Mr. Kincaid is doing OK .
As I mentioned .... there are all SORTS of factors that influenced the
development of Japanese art and the appreciation for that art. Literally
you could write a book on it.
For example...... Shinto ....the true indigenous religion of Japan.......
is a naturistic religion. Due in part to this background, the Japanese
generally LOVE the natural world. That is why so many of their images and
patterns allude to or depict nature. That is also why they have a
reverence and affinity for unrefined, natural materials.....with all their
varigation, imperfection and so on. That basic cultural "norm"...........
built into the collective psyche over thousands of years and that did not
come from art but from religion....... in a sense SET the stage and allowed
the great appreciation for wares such as those from Bizen and
Shigaraki..... with their rough impure clays, the natural fly ash, and the
scorch from the firings. Those wares are all ABOUT natural materials and
processes.
Looking at a comment from another thread here on CLAYART...... the comments
about the "problem" of chocolate goobers dropping off the salt kiln arch
onto the pots..... that Tony C. in another post called "Potter's Tears" and
said he charged MORE for........... in Japan, such events that are a
natural product of things like firing with wood are more often looked on as
simply natural and fitting, part of the process, and sometimes blessings
from the gods. They aren't looked at as a PROBLEM.
Here in the USA......... if a glaze runs and the foot has to be heavily
ground...... usually the potter either throws the piece out, uses it in
his/her own kitchen, or calls it a second and discounts the price heavily.
In Japan....... ground bottoms on very expensive "firsts" are quite common.
I have a beautiful Matsuzaki Ken oribe glazed piece that had to be heavily
ground because of the very fluid green glaze. The grinding is done
carefully and with craftsmanship. In the West....... we'd likely work on
the fluidity of the glaze so that it did not run. We'd probably accept a
slight change in the visual character of the glaze if we could just stop it
from running. In Japan........ you'd more likely just grind the
foot......... because to change the glaze character would destroy it's true
beauty.
It is a different world view.
The arts that flourish/ed there are not the arts of individualism/democracy
but more the
product of a repressed social atmosphere. In other words, if you, as a
citizen, do not have the right to speak your mind, let alone raise your
voice, maybe you would appreciate artifacts that are similar in style, i.e.
artifacts that don't obviously state their opinions, but rather, do so
quitely, much like a pot.
There is no question that Japanese culture has a past history of great
violence and repression.....and that background of course left it's
vestiges on current culture. The ready advent and adoption of Buddhism in
Japan when it arrived might also reflect this...... since it looks inward
not outward. As you say, many of the arts and cultural activities that are
highly revered in Japan are somewhat the arts of or for the more private
home.........
flower arranging, Chado
, calligraphy, poetry,
pottery, fabric dying, woodworking, metalsmithing, and so on.
Outspoken and "political" art of any kind was overtly controlled by the
ruling faction....with the severest of penalties for infractions. There
was plenty of political art......... but for the most part it was
"officially sanctioned" stuff. You are
correct that some peasant typically would not whip up a print showing the
local warlord as a horse's butt . Or, if he did,..... he never made a
second one.
Eventually, over time, this kind of authoritatian state influence evolved
into a general culture that felt that conforming to the social norm was the
acceptable thing to do........
llong after the overt physical threat was gone.
If you are interested in this kind of thing...... research the concept of
"WA" .... or "harmony". Disturbing the "Wa" is something that, in general,
the Japanese feel is a very bad thing to do. So they go to great lengths
not to do that, even today.
If you've seen the TV mini-series "Shogun" aired YEARS ago (the whole
series....not the single video cassette version) ....... the scene in which
a villager willingly gives his life to cut down Blackthorn's
aging pheasant meat is based on the concept of "Wa". Blackthorn's actions
and specific orders had disturbed the "Wa" of the household and
neighborhood. The villager felt restoring the "Wa" was worth his own life
so that for the others "Wa" was restored. Part of the continuing plot
involves Blackthorn's attempts to really understand this seemingly (to him)
bizzare event....... which causes him great anguish for a long time.
To state that the arts are better appreciated in Japan maybe true, to a
degree, but I do think the type of art being appreciated needs to be taken
into account.
Taken in that light.... I'd have to say that the arts here ARE highly
appreciated. Disney and the "advertising machine" and TV and such have had
a huge impact on our culture........ and have defined a lot about what is
"good" in the arts in a pretty vast public mind .
Perhaps the reason why art appreciation in Japan differs from art
appreciation in the western world may also involve not so much the art
literacy of the viewer, but rather, the willingness of the viewer to allow
others to make artistic judgements on their behalf.
Reasonable hypothesis. That happens in ANY culture. In our culture we
have the show jurors, and magazine editors, and workshop leaders, and
CLAYART writers, and so on "telling" us what are good pots or good artists.
But the Japanese preservation of Wa would account for someone not making a
public statement about the fact that he/she does not like a particular
artist or piece. And in that sense, the Japanese could SEEM to come across
as in complete agreement when in fact they aren't really.
The Japanese have terms that relate to this .......
There is the "public face" which is called "tatemai"......... and the
"private face" which is "honne". Tatemai (tah-tay-my) is how you present
something to the outward world so as to preserve face for everyone. It is
the "social lubricant" coated persona. Honne (hoan-nay) is your real and
very private feelings on the matter.
A westerner will infrequently see honne . It typically takes a long
relationship with a Japanese
person before they will reveal true feelings overtly.
In democratic societies individuals are taught to repect their own voice,
respect their own
judgements. With such an attitude one might be less inclined to "follow"
the
judgement set forth in a work of art,i.e. the viewer might be more willing
to say "that's crap" and less willing to allow an artist the opportunity to
say "consider this as art".
I think the Japanese ......... at least today...... can't speak about those
of a century or more ago ......... are very MUCH taught to respect
themselves and their own feelings and judgements. In fact, that is pretty
much the whole concept behind what is often refered to in the West as
"face". But, unlike many westerners today, they are ALSO taught to greatly
respect OTHERS "face".... and that doing something to another that would
cause "shame" is a pretty darn bad thing....and destroys your OWN "face"
too. So they tend not to do things that would or even COULD embarrass
others publically. They will find other ways to communicate what they need
to....... much more subtle ways. There are culturally acceptable ways to
communicate unpleasant things that preserve "face" on both sides.
The critics in Japan have made a fine art out of saying "That's Crap!"
..... in the most unoffending, obtuse, and inoffensive way possible .
To a westerner, unless you have done some language and cultural study.....
these messages
are often quite invisible. For example, the American saying "If you don't
have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." could VERY well have
been coined by a Japanese . That whole concept is SO Japanese! So if a
key person does not say anything about your latest exhibition...........
you might well take that as a poor review.
The phrase meaning literally "That's difficult" in Japanese often REALLY
means a flat out and decisive "NO" and also that you've placed the speaker
in an uncomfortable, and possibly untennable position. If it is preceeded
by a sucking inhale through the teeth....... you KNOW that is the caes .
But that is all you'll ever hear on the subject. So as a Japanese, if you
wanted a Depato (Department Store....important cultural centers in Japan
and MAJOR exhibition venues) to handle your work and you got that
answer....... you're way, WAY out of luck.
So as a Japanese potter the odds of you just walking up to a Depato manager
and overtly saying something like "Want to handle my pots"...... would
likely NOT be the way it would be approached. That would put the Depato
person in the possible position of having to say "no"..... and that would
destroy BOTH of your "faces" and kick "wa" out the window. Bad stuff. You
would have created a social faux pas. So the relationship with the store
would be done far more obtusely and over more time ...and often with a
go between. (Sometimes the "go between" is the potter's sensei.) This
kind of time consuming stuff often drives American business men NUTS in
Japan .
Learning to "read" this stuff is really hard as a gaijin (foreigner). It
has taken me YEARS of study and I have just barely scratched the surface at
all. I know that I need to be FAR more fluent in the language than I
already am to really get a solid grasp on it....... and languages are not a
strong point for me .
In the USA....... we'd probably more typically just say...... "This stuff's
crap....how did he/she get this show?"......... and the feelings of the
artist, his family and friends, others overhearing it or reading it, and so
on be da**ed. Because it is MY opinion and I have a right to it and I also
have a right to say it.
Here, the rights and views of the individual are considered highly
important...... more so than the expectations or feelings of the "group".
That kind of HUGE difference in basic thinking is why inter-cultural
misunderstandings (and sometimes wars) tend to happen.
I do have to say here that I have found the attention to other's feelings
and the preservation of "Wa" a refreshing thing when I have been in Japan.
It has been a bit "jarring" upon return.
Hamada Shoji said that trying to use some sort of external measure is
unimportant, and that
the pots he liked.... those were the good pots for him. This kind of goes
along with Bernard Leach's comments about "Thinking nakedly" as opposed to
liking what you are taught to like. These kinds of concepts formed some of
the foundation of their aesthetic values and also the Mingei movement. I
have found that most Japanese have pretty discriminating eyes when it comes
to pots but that they are NOT universal by any means in the type of pots
that they personally like.
Are the Japanese just simply following the "norms" of their culture which
are dictated by someone else......or is it somehow idividually generated?
God only knows?
At one level the impact and importance of tradition to them IS impacting
some of their viewpoint. But are any of us free of our own culture's
norms? Do I think that they have a "discriminating eye" simply because I
myself am just following that same externally generated lead that I have
somehow assimilated from their culture........... couldn't tell you .
A thought on attire: I was taught that a guy wears a suit, or a jacket,
when
going out to show respect for the event (if it deserves repect). If we ask
the public to respect our work shouldn't we, in turn, do that which
indicates that we respect it? The last time I did a show I wore a jacket
each day. I think my work
deserves respect, I think I communicate that fact by dressing approriately.
Yeah... I agree that the dress things is often about communicating
something about "values".
Having had the great pleasure of meeting and visiting Shimaoka-sensei
while in Japan in 96, since then whenever he has a show at the Pucker
Gallery in Boston..... I go to the openings. Out of respect, I weat a
suit. Which for me doesn't get worn often .
Usually if another potter is there also ....AND he or she is dressed in
that kind of manner..... in talking with them I usually find out that they
have some conncetion themselves to Japan.
I still haven't made that change in my own show openings or in doing
workshops here though. It is a tough thing to break cultural norms in ANY
culture.... ALL cultures promote and value social conformity. For
example, being in a suit and tie for NCECA probably would make you feel
like a square peg in a round hole . The cultural norem for potters here
in the USA is pretty casual dress. So sometimes dress selection is about
"conformity" more than "values" and "respect". Looking at the typical
teenage youth "rebellion" against the dress (and such) of their parent's
generation........ they pretty much all dress alike. It is a form of
"groupism". Just a differnt group. All us 60's "hippy-types" sure did
. As do the current crop of pierced, tatooed, and baggy pants crowd.
As did the flappers and zoot suit-ers. The more things change the more
they stay the same .
At the opening ceremony of the International Wood Fire Festival in Japan
last summer we were told to dress "casual"......with a lot of us wearing
the red Festival T-shirts that they had given us. But pretty much all the
"dignitaries" were decked out in suit and tie. And strangely enough......
I felt quite "underdressed" in that situation....... given the context. I
think I have a little bit of a case of "When in Rome......" in that
regard.
best,
.......................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086-5812 USA
JBaymore@compuserve.com
http:\\www.JohnBaymore.com
603-654-2752 (studio)
800-900-1110 (studio)
"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop: August 15 - 24,
2003"
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Janet Kaiser on wed 9 jul 03
Last year we had a visit from a lady who attends ceramic classes in her
hometown in Japan. Her teacher did some training in Portugal but I don't
know where else and produces wall hangings/plates which many here would
find offensive (sexually explicit).
Anyway, as a 30 year old employee of a manufacturing company rather than a
student or maker, our visitor had never heard of Mashiko. I tried pressing
the point... I spelled it out just in case I was pronouncing it wrong and
we looked it up on the map... Not a glimmer. I said it was really famous
for its potters... Still absolutely no response.
She was IMO a normal citizen interested in clay: an "above average" person
if you like, so I too wonder. Her main fascination seemed to be in Western
influences, especially cartoons and what we would call kitsch. She gave me
a cute little "Racoon Dog" she finds particularly appealing as "ceramic
art". At 30 years of age and apparently fairly well travelled throughout
Japan, I was surprised. I have not known many Japanese people and no one
ever well, but I think that they (as much as one can generalise) just
appreciate a whole range of work and art at different levels to us in the
West. So kitsch can sit quite happily next to a Sung Dynasty bowl...
I can relate to that, but then again I am the despair of all "purists". Our
house is witness to the eclectic temperament of a demented squirrel. And it
is not just me.... I know a lot of Europeans who do not make too many
distinctions between "high" and "low" art & craft.
And I bet "valuable" work ends up at the Japanese equivalent of car-boot
sales and land-fill through one generation not recognising the "treasures"
collected by their ancestors in exactly the same way as happens here.
Sincerely
Janet Kaiser
*** IN REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING MAIL:
>Then there is the part of me that wonders how in touch the average
Japanese
>person really is with pottery. I spent a lot of time over there with
>business people (NEC, Hitachi employees). Art was not very big on their
>minds.
*** THE MAIL FROM Cindi Anderson ENDS HERE ***
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Snail Scott on wed 9 jul 03
I just read a notice about an exhibition of Isamu Noguchi's
clay sculpture, currently with the Sackler Collection at
the Smithsonian (Washington, DC, USA). Anyone seen it in
person yet?
It was badly received in Japan when it was made (many years
ago) because 'that's not how clay is supposed to be used'
and equally dismissed in the US at the same time because
'that's not what real sculpture is made of'. I guess we've
actually come a long way since then, in both countries.
-Snail
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