pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 11 jul 03
Hi Lee,
More fun below...!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
> The Zen writer Allen Watts once said that we should
have two
> international languages: English for science and
technology and Chinese for
> Art, poetry and philosophy.
He also liked 'silence'...and knew the difference.
It is also true, that there are many things Alan Watts did
not say, about which, we may know even less.
Too, tho' I did not know him...I would guess he did not
subscribe...to 'nouns'...in anyone's "Language".
> Linear languages are more precise, quantitative
> and "efficient", but pictographic language is better at
nuances, quality and
> expression.
Like 'English'?
By 'quantitative and 'efficient' do you perhaps mean
'Arithmetic', or 'Algebra'?
Anyone's languageso far as I can tell...is 'Algebra', and
the elements of the equations or their functions...are
'poems'...maybe some of them are short, but...none-the-less
as 'so'.
If you think not, propose me an example? I will elaborate as
I may.
> Chinese is a better example of a strict pictographic
language.
How is that so?
Or, maybe moreso, to whom?
Or...to whom, as, the 'speaker'? - or as the listener or
reader? Or a hypothetical of either as for whom it is 'so'?
> Japan has always been an assimilative society.
It has both
> pictographic Kanji and linear katakana and hirigana. It
is said that Kobo
> Daishi (774-835 C.E.
http://www.asunam.com/kukai_page.htm ) invented the kana
> to help facilitate translating Buddhist text into the
Japanese from Chinese and
> Sanskrit.
They also liked those big frame 1870s 'Smith and Wesson'
Revolvers, in the ".44 Russian" way of faith, a good
man-stopper then, and since...as they removed from wounded
or dead Russians in '98 and so on. And, as were useful to
'translate' otherwise discreet potasium-sulphur-carbon
synergisms induced of fulminateing Mercury' tendency in
close quarters to promote their oxidation...unto more dead
Russians and so on...or ennunciations ( or more
'translations' we must conceed, of political opinions, or
their assertion, into pragmaticisms, or, one's taste in
them...)
Some of their 'Home-Guard' was still carrying them in
1945...with maybe not enough Ammunition to fill the
cylinder, but in case they might have occasion to employ or
propose the odd translation unto...
> Japan's ability to assimilate western science and
technology was
> probably aided by their use of precise linear kana.
Japanese, like English,
> is very quick to accept foreign words into its language.
...so I noticed...'words' AND other things, as may
be...and...why not?
Ever see a 'Nambu'?
Good fun here Lee...
Best,
Phil
lasvegas
Elizabeth Herod on fri 11 jul 03
Phil--
More fun indeed!
Few English speakers have true appreciation for the language, yet it is
considered the richest language on the planet by many non-English speakers.
It is the language that the world has chosen for primary communication. It
is also one of the hardest languages to master, because of its lack of rule=
s
and/or the fact that its rules are contradictory. The rules of the Germani=
c
part of the language are Germanic, whereas the rules of the Latin part of
the language are Latin based, and then of course we could get more detailed
about the elements that are Celtic, etc.
There is no other language that has invented words to conjure up a mental
image. Ex. Addle, siddle, side-step, waddle, strut, stride, etc., One has
to say, =B3he walks like a duck=B2.
The Japanese have always borrowed words. At one point it was from the
Portuguese. Tempura was traditionally a Portuguese food. Spotsucaru is on=
e
of my favorites, as is ai rubbu u. (These are in my Japanese book, name
provided upon request.)
I often stay out of the discussion, especially when it was said that we
cannot be what we are not. It puts me into a bit of a dilemma, since I am =
a
mut American, raised by Southern parents, that grew up in Japan.
Once, when I visited my brother in Guam, I was with another friend who had
grown up in Japan. His Japanese was much better than mine. We were
speaking English with a few of his Japanese friends, when we switched to
Japanese, I immediately stepped backwards and slightly bowed my head. Late=
r
Joel and I realized what I had done. We were surprised that that was in my
memory banks.
One of my Ikebana teachers thinks that my style is too traditional. It
should be more western, with more =B3stuff=B2 in it. It is hard for me to do.
I need the elements of simplicity, and adding things fills up the space tha=
t
the =B3butterflies should be able to pass through=B2. Surprisingly, last fall
one of the Iemotos was in NY for a workshop. He told my teacher that she
should not hold me back, that she must allow my creativity. But, I
understood this man when he was speaking Japanese with all of the borrowed
English words. The translation was not very accurate. It is hard for the
older Japanese women to adapt to the changing world of Ikebana, because the=
y
are technicians and do not =B3see=B2 some of the relationships.
So, their arrangements become the =B3pop art=B2 of Ikebana, rather than a new
creative expression, if that makes any sense.
At any rate, John=B9s posts about Nikko make me a bit homesick. Every summer,
we went to camp there for two weeks. I=B9d love to go back to the places that
I was before.
All of this thread has been =B3enlightening=B2.
Best
Beth
Lee Love on fri 11 jul 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "MJ Moriarty"
> I am speaking from a warehouse of ignorance here, and this is not a theory
> I have systematically researched, but I wonder if some of the difference
> between Japan and the west is because their writing system is pictographs,
> so they read using the part of the brain that processes images.
The Zen writer Allen Watts once said that we should have two
international languages: English for science and technology and Chinese for
Art, poetry and philosophy. Linear languages are more precise, quantitative
and "efficient", but pictographic language is better at nuances, quality and
expression. Chinese is a better example of a strict pictographic language.
Japan has always been an assimilative society. It has both
pictographic Kanji and linear katakana and hirigana. It is said that Kobo
Daishi (774-835 C.E. http://www.asunam.com/kukai_page.htm ) invented the kana
to help facilitate translating Buddhist text into the Japanese from Chinese and
Sanskrit.
Japan's ability to assimilate western science and technology was
probably aided by their use of precise linear kana. Japanese, like English,
is very quick to accept foreign words into its language.
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@hachiko.com
"Life is an expression not so much of matter as of its informing
pirit." --Joe Campbell
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