pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 11 jul 03
Appreciation
Hi Elizabeth!
Many things here....
We shall have some fun amid the writ, below...
And I shall preface this with.."It seems to me...that..."
...right now ( it occurs to me to mention...that, ) I am
listening to a phonograph record, something I very seldom
do.
The song is 'White Rabbit' by Grace Slick...the recording is
about 1967 I think, and is one track of a compilation of
various artists and songs under the title of 'Monstor Hits!'
I think ( album cover not handy...)
Now...this is not the version 'everyone' knows...it is an
'earlier' version...and...some of what I like about it...is
that in the traditions of the West...it is an 'Orientalism'
in it's way...an allusional 'of' the climber's "peton", or
of where it may be placed, as Orientalisms were, 'here' in
the West, for one's happy climb and pivoting of ropes and so
on, unto better views...or the desire to have them.
She is holding the 'Rosetta Stone', or, some exponent of
it...sometimes, it is heavy...
Grace is (my impression in hearing the song) young,
charming, brave and shy...it is innocent in many ways...it
is inspired...she is a little 'tired'...she has already been
through a lot, and suspects there is more to go...but
intentional and telling...there are some conflicts, but they
are overcome somewhat in the energy of the deed...she wishes
to overcome them, and is not sure she will. I admire her for
that.
It is...her singing about is...(of) a 'map'...(of
sorts)...an ennuncialtion of topological (of psychological)
import and testimony...a 'poem'...a repetition of a Child's
Book unto it's being remembered, should we like...that we
ourselves may be as well 'remembered'...unnto
ourselves...'as' ouselves...
I admire her gesture and courtesy...
And...
I like it.
It is 'in' English...
...and...do we suppose all 'english' speakers shall
'understand' it?
Or did?
Or do now?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Herod"
> Phil--
>More fun indeed!
You are a blessing! A joy...
>Few English speakers have true appreciation for the
language, yet it is
>considered the richest language on the planet by many
non-English speakers.
>It is the language that the world has chosen for primary
communication.
(And for [ bracketed inclusions within unstated
parentheticals of] communication within 'communication',
inexorably...allways...ever...)
So I gather, but I am not a student of Languages, and I just
barely speak this one ( English). If 'just barely' happens
to be enough...to tell when others may do more, or
less...or, sometimes much 'less'.
I may only infer to tell that, that the use one make of
something (be it Language, or anything) derive from the
experience they have of or through it. Or the deference
they/one may have to that experience, or the interests as
are served or entertained in that experience...
Hence, it is of less import to me 'what' the Language in
question is, so much as what may be 'said' in, with or
through it...too, what may be read, heard or understood by
the recipient...and whether that says more about the speaker
or the listener or the Language, can sometimes be hard to
tell.
To me, Language contains what we may call the written or
spoken or symbol-system elements ( and their implications as
that)...while not itself limited ( in other than a banal
sense) to them.
That is, it is larger than that...and includes all
'ennunciations'...or, for me it does anyway, or, it gets
big, and fast.
But for now, we are with the Language as speech
maybe...(which is a hand-full anyway) or it's ennunciations
and apprehensions as symbol-system references, allusional
'to' or evocative to, or 'of', various productions our
experience enjoys or entertains.
> It is also one of the hardest languages to master,
because of its lack of rules
> and/or the fact that its rules are contradictory.
I do not know the 'rules', other than by osmisis or
intuition...or an endemic propensity, in whose wake, 'rules'
are later deduced...or may be...as indeed they have been, in
this as well as many other things...
> The rules of the Germanic
> part of the language are Germanic, whereas the rules of
the Latin part of
> the language are Latin based, and then of course we could
get more detailed
> about the elements that are Celtic, etc.
I admire that you have understandings of this...and that you
or other people may be acquainted with the rules or
structures of Language(s)...and in being so, may note
commonalities or differences between a Language's confluent
roots and inclusions...and the 'how' it may be with how
things are 'said'...
I like that very much.
I am not, ( so familiar or acquainted, in that way,) at
least I have not troubled myself much beyond the distinction
of some 'posessives', and the curious attributions as others
came to make for there to be the catagory of 'noun'.
>There is no other language that has invented words to
conjure up a mental
>image. Ex. Addle, siddle, side-step, waddle, strut, stride,
etc., One has
>to say, ³he walks like a duck².
Or...thence, a 'duckster'...if it so please us to do, and it
might, too...
Or 'huckster'...or schmuckster, for that matter...we have
'Spinster', and thense as well it's allusional or
inferrential tenses...for, one as 'spins', and long ago,
most 'spinners' were men...or depending on 'where', anyway,
in England they were...yet now the term tends to mean an
unmarried Woman as is maybe no longer 'young'...
'Webster" once denoted one-as-make-webs, or, certainly,
literally, a Spider...or at least those kinds of Spiders as
DO make 'webs'....and...maybe, more than maybe, other
allusionals as well...
English had ( and has yet) all the algorythums and
Algebraic functions one might wish to have, to 'say'
anything as can be said, so far as I can tell. Whether
anyone in particular may appear to understand, or not.
Or, far more so than that anyone has so assayed the
'Language', TO say as much as can be said...although
sometimes, argueably, one may...or one may plenty
'good-enough', do so.
Foreign Idioms must be understood, for us to know 'what'
they may be in English.
Englishly expressed idoims must be understood, to be
expressed into foreign tounges...(with as much guarentee, I
suppose, or it's lack...)
If in either event, some transliterations or translations or
equivelencies might be liable to more or less brevity for
the talent of their allusion's maker, or evocation so
made...then good for who ever may do so.
>The Japanese have always borrowed words. At one point it
was from the
>Portuguese. Tempura was traditionally a Portuguese food.
Spotsucaru is one
>of my favorites, as is ai rubbu u. (These are in my
Japanese book, name
>provided upon request.)
Or from the 'Dutch' too sometimes I think...
>I often stay out of the discussion, especially when it was
said that we
>cannot be what we are not.
A healthy suspicion does well to attend anyone else's
attributions of what anyone else can or cannot 'be'...
Or at least, it is worth thinking about.
> It puts me into a bit of a dilemma, since I am a
>mut American, raised by Southern parents, that grew up in
Japan.
You are lucky!
...such nice opportunities...!
>Once, when I visited my brother in Guam, I was with another
friend who had
>grown up in Japan. His Japanese was much better than mine.
We were
>speaking English with a few of his Japanese friends, when
we switched to
>Japanese, I immediately stepped backwards and slightly
bowed my head. Later
>Joel and I realized what I had done. We were surprised
that that was in my
>memory banks.
Or that you posess manners...
One may posess (or rather claim) manners whether or not from
foreign influence, and, likely, you, as you, have them as
endemic self respect. Or, you were demur to abdicate them to
appease others as lacked them.
The form they may assume are whatever you elect for them to
assume.
>One of my Ikebana teachers thinks that my style is too
traditional. It
>should be more western, with more ³stuff² in it. It is
hard for me to do.
See above...
>I need the elements of simplicity, and adding things fills
up the space that
>the ³butterflies should be able to pass through².
See above...
>Surprisingly, last fall
>one of the Iemotos was in NY for a workshop. He told my
teacher that she
>should not hold me back, that she must allow my creativity.
But, I
>understood this man when he was speaking Japanese with all
of the borrowed
>English words. The translation was not very accurate. It
is hard for the
>older Japanese women to adapt to the changing world of
Ikebana, because they
>are technicians and do not ³see² some of the relationships.
>So, their arrangements become the ³pop art² of Ikebana,
rather than a new
>creative expression, if that makes any sense.
See above...
The corruption or abdication of manners is sometimes coerced
in the assertions of 'teachers' who lack them.
The error of apprehension lay in looking to them (
'teachers') rather than to one's own manners as 'guide', a
matter they will seldom correct, or offer to. And in my
view, may just be (the unstated parenthetical of ) 'what'
they are trying TO 'teach', too...
Hence, your (in this sense) own endemic 'manners', your self
respect, may be understood to be an available guide as has
no interest in misleading you.
Happiness may be understood to forsake all 'teachers' in any
disguise...as are not of that...(one's own conscience,
endemic self respect, 'manners'...Love, really...in one
'disguise' or another...)
At least it is for me...
Maybe for you too...
>At any rate, John¹s posts about Nikko make me a bit
homesick. Every summer,
>we went to camp there for two weeks. I¹d love to go back to
the places that
>I was before.
>All of this thread has been ³enlightening².
And fun!
Thank you Beth...!
You are the scent of Jasmine in a breeze...
>Best
>Beth
Best!
Phil
lasvegas
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sat 12 jul 03
Appreciation - Langua...
Hi Jan,
You ask...
"Phil; Please elucidate on why you see English as pictoral."
And while I may experience it as so, it is maybe not so easy
for me to discover how I may say so, and I will attempt it,
but to do so, I must inhabit some of me in thinking ways as
maybe do not themselves have the same sympathy as where I
might otherwise tend to be...so to tell of it is from a
different place than to live it.
So...
Words are vignettes, are representations, either of literal
things, literal
functions, or ideas and qualifiers of or about either.
If they were written as 'drawings' they would be considered
pictogrammes...or if the pictures get short-handish, maybe
transpictographisms or something, maybe thence unto
'Letters' for all I know...
Written as they are, in a combination of symbols, as may
themselves not (anylonger, or if ever they did) mean
anything, and which may be combined to
represent the intended word, we may find our words to be in
fact 'pictures' as are made or indicated, without they be
approximately made AS drawings literally, to be depicting
the thing, function or idea about either as we intend to
prepresent.
An experience of written Language for me is the same as an
experience of spoken Language overall ( with of course, some
so-called paralinguistic things being absent...)
The 'word' as transpictographism of 'pictogramme', in
written speech, for us, is represented
with a learned recognition as indicates what, a drawing
might
otherwise as such, have done.
Even as pictogrammes may be understood to have elements in
them as in combination allow variety for different
combinations of such elements to say or depict somewhat
different things as themselves have common elemments, so too
do we manage in either
one word, or in several, 'say' what amounts to the same
thing.
In Electrical occupations, the famous drawing of the
'Wheatstone Bridge' was a pictogramme, as eventually was
reduced to a symbol...so too with 'else'...as one time
outline in other symbols it's function or qualifying habit.
If this does not suffice, I will attempt again!
This is difficult for me to feel satisfied with...my effort
here to 'say' of how it is I may experience English as being
'made-of' picture vignettes as-it-were, rather than
say...something 'linial' as is composed of...of...of what?
If you say to me 'five' I 'see' hundreds of examples of
'five'...numerals, Arabic Numerals, Roman Numerals, Rune or
scratch count progressive counts 'to' five...in various
ways...groupings as variously have five things to them in
different configurations...also hands, 'stars', styalized
kinds-of fives, monitary combinations, abstract quantitative
anticipations or indications as five-days hence...or five
days ago, how a week is five-and-two...all kinds of
'five'...there is no 'simple' notion in me as comes arize to
hear or read the word 'five'...and...all these many, and
many times many, are poised to see if there are further
indicators as to just what sort-of five we may be
considering here...vieing among themselves almost, as to
'who' gets to 'go'...
Like that...in a way...for say as that term, as is of, in
itself, a non-thing, and as came to mind to try out...
If say 'House', then the same
overall...manymanymnaymany...kinds of, absences of,
combinations of...permutations of...analogs and coralaries
of...on and on...
If say as 'to'...different but still an image in a way...as
connecting things, mediating things, motion intention, or
motion trajectory or motion progress anticipations...
If say...'fill'...then many associations in images as are or
are of...something to be filled, as is filled, fillings of
all kinds, on and on and on...all-at-once...
So...with no intention I know of...I have elected
'five'...'house'...'to'...'fill'...
Five-house-to-fill?
...company?
Endless...
Thank you...
Best!
Phil
lasvegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan L. Peterson"
> Phil; Please elucidate on why you see English as pictoral.
Would have been my
> last thought. Jan
>
>
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